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[bolox]

The next thing I'm asking myself is: How is one supposed to successfully navigate in CloD?

After you've got the hang of the compass/DI there are several other little things to help you:

Ground control can give you a Vector to home base- press TAB-7-2 and steer on the heading. Heading is to nearest 30 degrees so be careful.
Right click on the map and tick the 'tools' label- you will get a menu bar with label, an eraser, a ruler tool and a protractor tool- sure you will work out how they work.
Then there is the clock, time your legs and you should be in the right place.

In clear weather it is also very possible to 'Bradshaw' it- follow recognizeable landmarks (railways, rivers, towns, woods etc).

[SAS~Storebror]

This thread will be of help,
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4011
need to set your directional gyro from the magnetic compass

Hell, I got it. Wondering how brits could have survived BoB with such kind of navigational aids, I would have expected them to loose 50% of each and every flight for slipping off to the see with such "high sophisticated" and "reliable" nav aids. Anyway, I got it eventually. Thanks for pointing me to that thread.
Once again I'm wondering how a game can be sold without any manual stating the usage of this kind of instrument. Is it just me? Did 1C think this would be self explaining? lol.

In clear weather it is also very possible to 'Bradshaw' it- follow recognizeable landmarks (railways, rivers, towns, woods etc).

That's what I did so far, but when the DI isn't set right, you'll always find yourself wondering how the sea could appear on the wrong side of your aircraft? Well, now I know why.

Best regards - Mike

[bolox]

Well there were unofficial mods to the P8 compass involving blanking off the 'sothern' part of the 'pointer'- reciprocal bearings were a constant problem throughout WWII even after the change to the later 'T' type course marker  introduced late '41.

In real life the P8 is actually not that hard to use- but it does require a little brain input.
http://www.cixvfrclub.org.uk/downloads/DLFiles/miscellaneous/The%20P4%20Compass.pdf
is a reasonable history of how it came to be and some of its quirks

As to the lack of documentation- well the way the sim was 'kicked out' well before it was ready saysto me  there was no time to write a proper manual (even if there was an intention).
 One thing that Oleg always knew was the 'community' would nearly always  fill in the gaps somehow- nowadays there are loads of tutorials on youtube and many are far better than any manual could ever be.
Unfortunately I don't think we will ever see the 'doorstop' manuals of earlier flight sims- eg Falcon series.
DCS do quite a good job with the P51 video tutorials tho

[LuseKofte]

Mike, please install TS3 and I will give you a easier start than I got. You are really in for a treat. When you got the game running we connect on TS and go over the control settings so you are good to go. It take time but is nessersery. I find a combination between flying CLOD and IL2 perfect

I warn you , once ATAG see you fly COD they set Team Fusion included Holy Grail after you, and suddenly you mod clod

[LuseKofte]

Here are some reasons for why Clod will survive BOS

[SAS~Storebror]

Mike, please install TS3 and I will give you a easier start than I got. You are really in for a treat. When you got the game running we connect on TS and go over the control settings so you are good to go. It take time but is nessersery.

Thanks for your proposal Otto but I'm not that much into TS and even more, I don't find 1-on-1 lessons that useful for such basic stuff like getting started with a game, it'd mean that you'd have to teach each and everyone again and again.
At the moment I'm getting along quite fine, taking into account the lack of documentation

once ATAG see you fly COD they set Team Fusion included Holy Grail after you, and suddenly you mod clod

I don't hide at ATAG and I've been there already.
Modding CloD is like riding a dead horse.
I must admit I've been very disappointed to see that there's no online server available for unmodded CloD anymore. I think this will discourage new users from even attempting to get to fly online and will leave CloD dying even faster than it would anyway once BOS is ready for the official release.

Best regards - Mike

[thefruitbat]

I disagree.

There are to many things that unmodded CLOD has wrong with it, to make it enjoyable to fly.

Despite having it since day one, until team fusion patch 3, and even more so since team fusion patch 4, I find myself flying it more and more than anything else, before i hardly touched it.

Also the news is travelling, and more people are trying it again and like myself, liking it now due to these efforts.

Coupled with my personal disappointment so far in BoS, I forsee myself at least flying Clod for a long time yet.

Of great interest to me is the now planned revision of the AI, and just the few things they have planned for 4.01 will fix one of the last annoying bugs which have withheld me making missions for my squad members.

I have already started building a campaign for them, in the knowledge of whats to come.

Remember, much, if not the vast majority of online flying in 1946, is not on public servers, but in private squad servers.

Anyway, thats my view, right or wrong.

[LuseKofte]

I am also disagreeing, the thing is . BOS is so different than CLOD I will never abandon it and neither will the majority flying it now. I think BOS need another year to get where it should start, then another 6 month to the plane interesting me arrive. I love the Lagg but for me bombers like IL2 , stuka and the Heinkel are essential.
Bos looks like it gonna be all right but compared to the complexity to clod it is fairly simple. I hope bombsights in BOS are close to what we got in clod tho.
Clod is not a dead horse, it might very well be the only realistic combat sim in unforeseen future. It is just a shame people does not realize it. I do not recommend flying all alone in ATAG server too often , it getting very frustrating in the long run. That is why you se most people there got squad tags and the rest are in ATAG TS 3

I find myself flying lesser IL2 after CLOD , that is a shame. But the flight characteristics are just so different and better in clod

[SAS~Storebror]

All fine and granted. I get it that both of you like CloD and to some degree don't like BOS too much yet. Fine.
The thing about CloD however is that it's extremely disincentive to any new user for several reasons:

• You've gotta take a steep learning curve with no teaching material at hands unless you happen to find it splattered through the internet
• You've gotta install 2GB+ of patches, with the very first one (TF patch 3.0) required being hardly available. All but one link is dead, no one's seeding it on torrent anymore and the last remaining active link takes about a day to load, with no resume capability so if your internet connection happens to fluctuate, you're lost.
• If you're not part of the IL-2 community already, you've got nearly no single chance to even find a good point to start with.

You might like how much different and difficult the game is, but in CloD's current state it's like an "invitation only" game for a private circle of IL-2 enthusiasts.
You might like TF patches since you have them up and running and it might have been much easier to get them when they've been fresh and warm, but nowadays the necessity to have these patches (which are so hard to get in the meantime) just adds to the game's deterrence.

Best regards - Mike

[LuseKofte]

I like BOS and it might well be my new favorite. Clod id´s complex and are to be taken in small portions;) I agree in what you say. But CLOD was abandoned and to be playable the patches was nessersery. Without CLOD we would have lost some onliners and we are talking about 200 -300 active flyers in a week.
I hope BOS get good online features so squads can make campaigns , I hope there will be offline features that is close to what we have in old IL 2. But I think it will be a year from now on until I find it playable like IL2 and Clod.

This is not me but I flew BR 20 on this campaign yesterday and against all odds survived
This vid is taken by another squad and shows two almost midair collisions

[ATAG_Bliss]

All fine and granted. I get it that both of you like CloD and to some degree don't like BOS too much yet. Fine.
The thing about CloD however is that it's extremely disincentive to any new user for several reasons:

• You've gotta take a steep learning curve with no teaching material at hands unless you happen to find it splattered through the internet

I disagree completely.  There is an entire Wiki dedicated to flying every single plane, the install process, tips, configs, you name it all on the ATAG forums, all in one spot.  If anything, as far as flight sims go, you couldn't ask for a better information source.  If you expect to find this information at 1C, then I agree with you.  But to say it doesn't exist or is "sprinkled" across the net, is just plain wrong.

• You've gotta install 2GB+ of patches, with the very first one (TF patch 3.0) required being hardly available. All but one link is dead, no one's seeding it on torrent anymore and the last remaining active link takes about a day to load, with no resume capability so if your internet connection happens to fluctuate, you're lost.

Again, completely wrong.  The hosting service that we provide for the TF patches is a paid service, with the only downtime being regular maintenance on Friday evenings.  I just clicked the official 3.0 download link on the ATAG forums and the time left for the download was 3 minutes.  Clicking the official download link for 4.0 nets a download time left of 25 minutes.  Granted, plenty of people have tried to help by hosting their sites for these files, but the official one's are far from dead and have worked fine the entire time the mod has been out.  That is exactly why we pay for this service. 

• If you're not part of the IL-2 community already, you've got nearly no single chance to even find a good point to start with.

Again, all the information is there in one spot.  There have been numerous brand new people (almost every week).  Just check out the welcome section.  These people, like any that have questions, simply ask them and get answers, in many cases, almost immediately.  The ATAG forums also has live chat that many people discuss issues/questions with in real time.  So to say if you're not part of the IL2 community, you've got nearly no single chance to find a good point to start with simply couldn't be further from the truth.  The mod installs itself in seconds.  There is written instructions, video instructions, you name it to show how to do this. 

You might like how much different and difficult the game is, but in CloD's current state it's like an "invitation only" game for a private circle of IL-2 enthusiasts.
You might like TF patches since you have them up and running and it might have been much easier to get them when they've been fresh and warm, but nowadays the necessity to have these patches (which are so hard to get in the meantime) just adds to the game's deterrence.

Best regards - Mike

It's hardly invitation only, again, just check the ATAG forums or the welcome section for new members.  Check the Wiki.  Use the "Official" download links that are "NOT" hard to get.  I believe the reason you think the way you do is because you must get your information from 3rd party.  It would be best if you just went to the site that made the patches in the first place.  You'll be hard pressed to not get an overload of any sort of information out there for Cliffs of Dover. 

But from your wording it seems like you don't want help in the 1st place.  Just know that if you do actually want help, tutorials, etc., the ATAG forum is where it's at.

[GerritJ9]

I'm still seeding 3.0 so it's not completely accurate so say nobody is seeding it any longer.