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Author Topic: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner  (Read 2947 times)

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taly01

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2023, 12:45:11 AM »

Thanks, it can make a big difference to "reality" of combat, I had hoped to do something on AI this holidays but I got hung up on maps and 3D models, which I put into too much too learn to be good.

Some use maybe-

Scheme0    Gliders
Scheme1    Single engine planes...  including BI, Me163 rockets
Scheme2    Twin engine single rudder
Scheme2a  Twins dual rudders... P-38, Bf110.. includes MXY-7!
Scheme3    Twins dual rudder special for Fw-189
Scheme4    Quads
Scheme5    Penta Engines He111Z
Scheme6    Trimotors
Scheme7    Hexa-Motor Me323

**Corrected from Epervier, my plane observation skills was lacking***
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Epervier

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2023, 02:47:47 AM »

Scheme2    Twins bomberish
Scheme2a  Twins sportier.... P-38, Bf110.. includes MXY-7?
Scheme3    Twins special....Fw-189
Scheme2: 2x engines, single rudder. (used for bombers, heavy fighters like A-20, Beaufort, Beaufighter, C-47, Do-335, G4M, He-111, IL-4, Ju-88, Me-262)
Scheme2a: 2x engines, two rudders. (used for Bf-110, B-25, Pe-2, P-38, Tu-2, MXY-7)... In fmd = [Aircraft] Type is "2".
Scheme3: 2x engines, two rudders, one elevator. (used for FW-189) (* does not correspond to the number of engines)
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If your results do not live up to your expectations, tell yourself that the great oak was once an acorn too. - Lao Zi -

shardana

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2023, 02:56:39 AM »

As our AI get improved by the minute I'd like to know how this il2 1946 AI mod now compares with other combat flight sim AI. Il2 BOS, DCS etc.  Any opinion by the lucky ones who got the chance to check this mod?
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WxTech

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2023, 04:25:03 AM »

I wouldn't consider this to involve matters of AI in the usual sense. It's a simple 'decision-making' process that has a single outcome depending on chance--once the one condition triggering it has been met. AI code typically is built around an involved decision tree.

On the other hand, simple, damage-inspired decisions do have a profound impact of their own, and can be thought of as another aspect of the AI.

In any event, don't be getting any ideas about me being in any way knowledgeable about the complex sphere of AI. 😉
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shardana

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2023, 06:02:02 AM »

I agree with all you wrote, still I think what you’ ve done certainly will have a good impact on the game feeling.
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TXZCJSP

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2023, 09:30:22 AM »

Doesn't seem to work on single engine bombers?
The SBD-5, for example, dropped its bombs when it was attacked, but stayed on course and didn't turn back.
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WxTech

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2023, 11:00:52 AM »

I've been refining things, and have specifically added the consideration of single-engined crates.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Hyman Rickover (but probably predating his use.)

taly01

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2023, 12:43:39 AM »

With ground attack missions more planes now RTB when showing smoke/fuel/fire, the % probabilities to decide are a trial and error.   % of RTB explains why sometimes AI did break off combat in standard game, but the % they used ~15% was much too low.   
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Tokyo_Express_420

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2023, 04:35:41 PM »

Fighter bombers such as the F4U and P-47 cooperate perfectly with this mod - they can take light damage such as bullet holes and make it back to base no sweat

This is such a win for decreasing loss rates and makes mission making 10 times less frustrating

One area for improvement is Japanese aircraft

Most Japanese aircraft suffer an inability to take damage and RTB (many don't have self sealing fuel tanks and relatively low structural strength)

Most of the time surviving A6Ms have no damage at all

Is there a way of making aircraft withdraw after a certain combat time or if they for example shoot down a certain amount of aircraft or ground targets?

Just hoping to have much lower loss rates for Japanese fighter aircraft

Thanks,

- Tokyo Express
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WxTech

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2023, 05:53:23 PM »

Drilling deeper down into specifics adds complexity. Code volume might increase as the square of the variable count. To expand to any significant degree might warrant the creation of a dedicated class.

Mention of the Zero reminds me that when looking over its hitBone method, it appeared to me that for at least the fuel tanks the imparted damage would increment by two steps instead of the far more typical single step. This would incur heavy damage more quickly, as well as invoke the 2nd (final) fire state rather more often than the 1st fire state. I suppose that planes having especially 'sensitive' elements like this could have a different treatment.

My understanding of many aspects of the game architecture is greatly lacking. Any thoughts from those more well versed would be appreciated.
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BIGREDONE

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2023, 08:34:37 AM »

Any thoughts from those more well versed would be appreciated.

sorry if I insert myself a little late in the discussion, with a little think ,  ..It could be adapted to attack conditions during GATTACK, e.g. putting a bombs-dropping condition == RTB making it possible to hit and run during a fighter-bomber mission. In fact, it always happens that fighter-bombers linger on the target for too long and are inevitably hit sooner or later  .......
 ....  Greetings !! ;)
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WxTech

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Re: WIP - Fighters RTB sooner
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2023, 09:06:42 AM »

BIG  REDONE (ha ha! Just kidding!),
Your notion is now venturing into the AI decision tree, a whole 'nother area far outside my adopted remit here. What I'm playing around with concerns only how incurred damage can be employed so as to inspire our little silicon-based lifeforms to realize that discretion is the better part of valor.

Now, if after a bomb drop the damage state triggers an RTB state, I should think the little buggers wouldn't be hanging about unnecessarily.

One thing I'd like to see in the AI behavior is this: Upon a damage-inspired RTB state, make more of a straight beeline to home base or some nearer friendly field. Watching a single-engined plane robotically follow the set waypoints back to base, wasting precious time while the oil and/or coolant drains away, is frustrating. Of course, in many instances there would be no chance to make it anyway. But still...
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Hyman Rickover (but probably predating his use.)
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