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Author Topic: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow  (Read 1925 times)

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redbaron96

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B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« on: February 13, 2021, 05:12:48 PM »

I am trying to create a single bombing mission, where you fly a B-52H, dropping bombs on up to 8 targets around the Moscow area, including the Mayday parade. Other cities targeted includes Rzhev. I have created a draft version (below) which has included adding some more modern objects to Rzhev and creating an Eye-Candy concrete airport near Moscow.

However, I found that at the height I was flying at (5000m) the parachute dropped bombs took a very long time to drop. Would it be better to have the plane flying at a lower height?

Also, the 1970's version of the B-52 has a rear gun, would it be good to have dealing with a Mig-Interceptor as part of the mission?

Finally, is there a guide on using the 'SAM' missiles in Jet War/Evading them as part of a mission? Sorry for asking, but I am unsure about how to use them.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/hjds7yx81yhlvy3/b52miissiondraft.zip/file
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enry711

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2021, 06:08:19 PM »

Hi redbaron 96
I've gathered a lot of experience in FMB and i've used it exstensively with jets so i can help you.  :)
Concerning your questions, i'm very happy to reply to you with all my knowledge and potentially help you building it with some tips & tricks i've learnt.  8)
I made a very similar mission to yours in the past, so before you read the following lines i strongly suggest you to check it out to gather more information and to understand how i did it: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,65034.0.html

I'd be very happy if i could help you if you in building it. For any question/doubts feel free to ask me8)

1) First things first: you mentioned that you are using 8 bombs with parachutes, meaning that you are using parabraked nukes then.
Nukes need little introduction (since we all know what they do) but they need a bit of practice before launching one. The parabraked nuke modification is meant for low-level nuclear strikes, where the bomber flies at tree-top level fast and zooming over the target, releasing the bomb and earning more time to get away.
As you discovered, they are not really meant for high-altitude drops.
If you stay at 5000m, i suggest you to use normal nukes without the parachute and also to set a quite long delay based on the power of the bomb. 5000m altitude drop + 120 seconds Delay + escape at max throttle should guarantee your safety.
If you choose to conduct a low-level nuclear strike, then select parabraked nukes + delay.

2) Realistically speaking, it's 200% certain that the VVS and PVO would have scrambled several interceptors/fighters to take down immidiately an hostile B-52 crossing the soviet borders, even if it was unarmed. Soviet borders (as well as all NATO and US borders) were incredibly surveilled during the Cold War as you might expect. So much that at the slightest sign of aggression, multiple soviet fighters would have been scrambled to stop, either with "good" or "bad" manners, the bogey at all costs. All the B-52 series carries a rear gunner, except the latest and more modern B-52H (Late). The B-52D/F carries a proper, human gunner armed with 4x12,7mm .50 MGs, whereas the later B-52H (Early) carried a radar-guided 20mm M61 armed gunner.
My opinion is that i strongly suggest you to add quick-response soviet units; not only it's the most probable and credible scenario but it makes the mission way better and much more immersive. If you are interested i can give you much more precise advices on how to set the soviet interceptors, make the mission work properly, coordination, etc...

3) Regarding SAMs there is some informations around i believe, but for a complete, specific and detailed guide you can ask me whatever you want.
I used them a lot so i know how they work and how to place them in the correct way. 

Right now i'm busy with life affairs but as soon as i'm a bit more free i can help you in building it. The only problem is that i cannot write all the things i know and that i'd like to say about FMB in this message  ;D

Vampire_pilot

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2021, 12:31:43 AM »

What you want to build sounds a lot like the movie "Dr. Stangelove" - check it out and if you can, go watch it. It is not only a very good movie from an artistic standpoint but also describes in quite some detail what happens on a Buff when ordered to strike the Soviet Union.
It also follows through the various intercept attempts with missiles and fighters and shows where they succeed and where they fail. It explores in particular the mindest of a nuclear Buff crew on a mission.

As a general observation, 5000m is a poor choice of altitude. Why? You are entering a highly defensive airspace. You want one of two things: Be super high up so they can see you but can't reach you (in time or by surprise) or be super low so they can't track you.
You want to be super fast in either case (You actually want to be in a B-58 Hustler, but that's a different story)
You do not however want to be at 5000 meters, which is about the absolute worst scenario for any form of intercept, particularly with missiles.

Enry already explained about the parachute bombs and how they are used for low level to give you extended egress time.

Quote
If you stay at 5000m, i suggest you to use normal nukes without the parachute and also to set a quite long delay based on the power of the bomb. 5000m altitude drop + 120 seconds Delay + escape at max throttle should guarantee your safety. If you choose to conduct a low-level nuclear strike, then select parabraked nukes + delay.

This makes no sense for a freefall Nuke however. Nukes need to be detonated well above ground to achieve maximum yield.
Also, a Nuke is a quite delicate device, which would not simply hit the ground at full speed, sit there, then properly detonate. (most) Nukes would not survive an impact and remain functional. There are accidents, like the famous one over Spain, that show what happens to a device that hits the ground. It does not stay intact.
So, if you want to remain realistic, there should be no impact delay fuse on a regular freefall Nuke.  It could make sense for a paradropped Nukes, but again, Nukes are usually exploded at altitude, so I do not know, if a regular para dropped Nuke is designed to survive an impact other than in failsafe mode.

One other thing is important to realize: Crew is expendable after delivering the bomb. It's the only thing that matters.

enry711

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2021, 02:43:31 AM »

Yeah i agree. From 1200m to 3000m you are vulnerable to SAMs and all kinds AAA, and above 5000m you are a sitting duck for interceptors and SAMs. Flying low and fast is the option that gives you more chances of getting back alive or, at least, reach the target.

Quote
This makes no sense for a freefall Nuke however. Nukes need to be detonated well above ground to achieve maximum yield.
Also, a Nuke is a quite delicate device, which would not simply hit the ground at full speed, sit there, then properly detonate. (most) Nukes would not survive an impact and remain functional. There are accidents, like the famous one over Spain, that show what happens to a device that hits the ground. It does not stay intact.
So, if you want to remain realistic, there should be no impact delay fuse on a regular freefall Nuke.  It could make sense for a paradropped Nukes, but again, Nukes are usually exploded at altitude, so I do not know, if a regular para dropped Nuke is designed to survive an impact other than in failsafe mode.

There is an "Airburst" fuze for some nukes in-game, but i still need to try it. My suggestion for the delay is mission-wise: to make the mission more feasible and more "adrenalinic" i'd make the player infiltrate the AO, drop the nuke under intense pressure, and then make him run away as fast as possible with enemys chasing hime before the nuke goes off. Giving the chance to the player to get back alive i believe it's better for the overall enjoyment of the mission. I replicated exactly all that in my mission "The 2nd Sun".
This solution i agree is not accurate with a free-falling bomb, but it gets balanced by having all the PVO on your tail (it's unlikely to survive anyway).

redbaron96

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2021, 05:47:24 AM »

Thanks for the pointers. I tried both of enry's missions and also looked at the 'mis' files in FMB.
I then tested out some edits in the draft mission that I created, including adding some SAM systems (forcing me to fly low).

If I set bomb release mode to single, then I can obviously fly to more cites/targets, instead of dropping all 8 bombs in one go.
Would this be a good approach to take?

Also, to help avoid the bomb blast, I have experimented with climbing to around 1000m upon reaching the target, dropping the parachute bomb and then diving back to 250m again?

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enry711

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2021, 03:53:00 PM »

Hope my info is useful  ;)

Regarding the Bomb Release Mode, well...yes. It depends on the mission and how many targets you want the player to hit with those nukes.
Bear in mind that nukes are so devastating that you will always need to drop only 1 to overkill everything in-game. Above 5kt of power you can literally DELETE several cities, villages, targets with only 1 drop. Launching 4/8 nukes is just not necessary, apart from the fact that i hardly believe in a situation where you must use all of them. (Maybe if you need to DELETE the whole USSR with 1 plane)  ;D

Regarding the tactic to drop the parabraked nukes, yeah it's a good tactic. It's still very risky but, all things considered, everything related to a low-level interdiction deep in the USSR with a B-52 sounds like a death sentence. If you gain more altitude before the drop, the nuke will obviously require more time to reach the ground, therefore adding some time for you to escape.

In my mission with the B-52 there's a perfect example of how you could do your mission. Feel free to take inspiration from it and use to understand the concept of what i've done.  8)

redbaron96

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2021, 06:10:20 AM »

Fair enough. I will take another look at the mission that you created as well.
One thing that I noticed was that the 1MT bomb destroys basically everything in a 30km radius (when trying to workout how long it will take to fly away from the parachute dropped bomb).

Also, I noticed that the game slows down considerably when detonating the nuke over a city, but less so when I did some experimenting with more empty areas of the map.
I understand that this is due to how the game has to load the various (meshes?) settings for all the destroyed objects/buildings at the same time.
Are there any changes that can be made to settings in the config.ini to help reduce this?
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SaS~JackS

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2021, 10:37:12 AM »

Gentlemen,

Just noticed this as I was browsing through SAS. Having been on alert as a B-52D AC with Soviet targets, may I suggest, albeit late, that a very low delivery/release is in order. Plus a major time delay before the thing goes boom giving the 52 time to exit stage right!

Jack  ;)
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Dreamk

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Re: B-52 Bombing Single Mission - Moscow
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2021, 01:40:21 PM »

Most US Nukes were equipped simultaneously with a number of different fuzes.
Generally each nuke was equipped with:
1) time-delay outburst
2) barometric altitude
3) grazing or impact
and most of the time also with
4) radar ("proximity fuze")
This was due to the fact that the baraometric altitude fuze and the radar fuze could not be fully trusted.
This insured explosion in  any case...so long the bomb was armed.
The incidents in Spain, Canada etc.. proved that a non-armed bomb did not exploded when contacting the ground or the sea but the envelop could shatter and the nuke would in fact become what is called today a "dirty bomb" spreading  nuclear matter all around the impact point.
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