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Author Topic: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3  (Read 1449 times)

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FradCoock

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Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« on: April 19, 2020, 01:19:06 PM »

HI,

a few days ago i installed the mod with all the extensions, including patch 3.8.3
and today in the test of flight models of helicopters i found that Kamov Ka50-2 erdogan and
Kamov Ka52 alligator are absolutely unflyable.
It is impossibe to take off for example.
Even when I start flight in the air, i lose altitude and speed, and with time i completely fall
Also i found that some other Soviet and Russian (including Kamov) flying more like a plane than a helicopter.

But be that as it may, BAT is still perfect!

~FradCoock :-*
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SAS~Monty27

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2021, 05:05:58 AM »

I agree with you. The major Flight Model changes to Helicopters in BAT, dating back to the 3.8 Pegasus Update, have rendered them more like STOL aircraft and not at all like helicopters anymore. They cannot drift, hover or fly backwards, or even fly very slowly. They depart from controlled flight without warning and are basically unflyable.

It was already known that the AI cannot handle the Helo Flight models, they had a STOL FM equivalent for mission builders. Forcing the same change for actual players is something I strongly disagree with. I have been testing a number of new Helo FMs and am delighted to be able to tell you that we will have real helicopters back in BAT in the very near future.
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xxxautoxxx

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2021, 07:24:28 AM »

Friends - i was just as FRUSTRATED as you  - loooooooved these whirly birds, but they were 'broken' somewhere after BAT 3.5 :(

alas, trial and error have resulted in a simple fix - that works !
Just re-added the orig folders for each Kamov to the #JTW3 folder, replacing the FM with the newer 'HIND' FM - easy peasy !

here ya go - and happy Tank Smashing ;)

https://www.mediafire.com/file/dx0swwasr4nfncm/#JTW3.zip/file

xAx
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2021, 07:07:24 AM »

just as a reminder, while this fixes those two, but at the same time breaks the Mi-24.
One of the problems is apparently the very wild criss-cross riding on the same FM files with some helicopters and that their classes are not fitting the FM anymore and vice versa.  To get this sorted, it would be best to have this disentangled, meaning new classes and references to new FM files, so the helicopters can be treated individually for any possible further development in FM behavior.

With the FM by Vega and class of today, maybe I can make an AI buddy slot for the Mi-24, which then won't be affected by any changes in the player slot.

xxxautoxxx

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2021, 05:07:43 PM »

VAMPIRE is correct - that DID make the orig Mi-24 unflyable/ weapons messed up...
BUT, the newly added mi-24 'P' (from this) https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,62770.0.html
WILL still work...

its a case of what do you prefer til a real fix happens


xAx
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2021, 07:03:23 AM »

I have the disentanglement of the FM use with some helicopters on my to do list. I am going to make me a matrix and see which ride on what FM and how to keep them apart in a reasonable manner. The Mi-24P using yet another version of "HIND" always was a problem indeed, maybe I can circumvent this as well with this work and have it integrated without affecting others. I'll have to kick it off eventually to see how far I can get... It's just some initial amount of list-making that's not so appealing.

Unfortunately I have no idea what specific plans Monty has, he didn't explain.

SAS~Bombsaway

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2021, 10:46:07 AM »

Back when the Hind was first released, I had posted an FM that from what I was told was very good for it. I looked but it seems my post was removed or lost somehow so here it is...

https://www.mediafire.com/file/alszvaoz8tz0ho5/Hind_FM.rar/file

Try it and see if it works well for you.
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2021, 08:26:15 AM »

Noice.

However. Now we have something about the size of the Kelly Family, where everything is a Mi-24V:

3 sets of class files:
The "original"
The "BAT/Vega" update
The "western/BT~Wasted" update

Along with these come (at least) 4 different versions of the "HIND" FM file:

The "original"
The "BAT/Vega" update
The "western/BT~Wasted" update
The "Bombsaway" version

Only certain classes support certain FM files, they are not interchangeable at will. (see the Kamov hickup, where classes and FM do not match apparently)

Now.
I put it up for a public vote, which is "the best" set of classes+FM :)


Meanwhile I have succeeded in making an AI buddy from the "BAT/Vega" version.

Yaro59

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2021, 09:48:13 AM »

It would be great to fly reasonably successfully made helicopters, but in this multitude... maybe someday.
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Dastardly

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2021, 07:04:35 PM »

@ SAS~Monty27 @ SAS~vampire_pilot
Any news on the heli FM front?
I sorely miss the whirly birds, the FM was never perfect but has been terrible now for quite a while. The only one that flies halfway like a helicopter at the moment is the cobra. A few years back the FM was ok, I could fly a Huey low level down a Vietnam river, some Wagner, a cigar, and Apocalypse Now, was alot of fun, still hoping there's a chance for the future.
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 06:31:53 AM »

I haven't heard of Monty in a very long time so I have no idea.

Dastardly

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Re: Kamov helicopters unflyable on BAT 3.8.3
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2021, 11:14:48 AM »

Oh well, thanks for the reply.
 - eternally grateful for all things BAT.
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