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Author Topic: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug  (Read 1149 times)

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glibble

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Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« on: March 13, 2020, 08:21:22 PM »

Hi All,

The Crusader Mk III tank aims its main gun 90 degrees to starboard AWAY from target:

... with dire consequences  :(


If anyone wants to test the mission file, here it is:
Code: [Select]
[MAIN]
  MAP desert/load.ini
  TIME 10.0
  CloudType 0
  CloudHeight 1000.0
  player r0100
  army 1
  playerNum 0
[SEASON]
  Year 1940
  Month 3
  Day 15
[WEATHER]
  WindDirection 0.0
  WindSpeed 0.0
  Gust 0
  Turbulence 0
[MDS]
  MDS_Radar_SetRadarToAdvanceMode 0
  MDS_Radar_RefreshInterval 0
  MDS_Radar_DisableVectoring 0
  MDS_Radar_EnableTowerCommunications 1
  MDS_Radar_ShipsAsRadar 0
  MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxRange 100
  MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MinHeight 100
  MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxHeight 5000
  MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxRange 25
  MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MinHeight 0
  MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxHeight 2000
  MDS_Radar_ScoutsAsRadar 0
  MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_MaxRange 2
  MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_DeltaHeight 1500
  MDS_Radar_HideUnpopulatedAirstripsFromMinimap 0
  MDS_Radar_ScoutGroundObjects_Alpha 5
  MDS_Radar_ScoutCompleteRecon 0
  MDS_Misc_DisableAIRadioChatter 0
  MDS_Misc_DespawnAIPlanesAfterLanding 1
  MDS_Misc_HidePlayersCountOnHomeBase 0
  MDS_Misc_BombsCat1_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
  MDS_Misc_BombsCat2_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
  MDS_Misc_BombsCat3_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
[RespawnTime]
  Bigship 1800
  Ship 1800
  Aeroanchored 1800
  Artillery 1800
  Searchlight 1800
[Wing]
  r0100
[r0100]
  Planes 1
  Skill 1
  Class air.MagisterM14A
  Fuel 100
  weapons default
[r0100_Way]
  TAKEOFF 48167.55 22446.05 0 0 &0
  NORMFLY 47330.65 21626.20 500.00 300.00 &0
[Chiefs]
  6_Chief Armor.1-Crusader_III 1
[6_Chief_Road]
  66777.67 45619.20 120.00 0 2 3.3333334922790527
  66592.40 45803.89 120.00
[NStationary]
  2_Static vehicles.stationary.Stationary413$PaII_Radio_DE 2 66500.55 45896.81 675.00 0.0
[Buildings]
[StaticCamera]
  66640 45772 15 0
[Bridge]
[House]


I checked the log file and didn't see anything related. Not sure if it has to do with the gun's z-axis rotation in the class file.

I'm using BAT 3.6.2, so I'm not sure if it's the same in BAT 3.8.2  :-|

Help is greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Glibble
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2020, 03:12:27 AM »

Interesting. However, this item hasn't been touched in years.

I have no experience with armour and how it is working though.

cbradbury

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2020, 03:25:30 AM »

Bug the same in BAT 3.82. No wonder it took the 8th Army so long to beat Rommel...
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enry711

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2020, 03:36:10 AM »

Armor AI is really blind on Il-2 1946. I think that they were programmed not only to engage the desired target, but also "simulate" additional, not existing ones at 360°.
If you take a AA gun for example, it will always shoot at ground targets with great accuracy, but sometimes it will completely miss for a burst or 2.
It seems that armor/artillery AI engages "Phantom targets" to simulate infantry moving on the ground in my opinion.

It's hard to explain but you can try it for yourself in FMB: place a tank/AA in front of the target and watch how it behaves  :)

SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2020, 04:10:38 AM »

it may be a routine to drag out ground battles and spread it over a larger territory with less objects (strain on system considerations) ?

AI and Il-2.... it's something special.

enry711

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2020, 05:53:47 AM »

Yeah probably vamp
In big battles it has sense, since there may be running soldiers, MGs, bunkers scattered all over the place and you have to engage the enemy at multiple bearings (widely experienced in Steel Fury: Battle of Kharkov 1942, great tank sim btw)
In limited, head-on engagements it looks a tad silly but i think AI is hard coded for that. Still, it can and will engage the enemy...just when it feels ok to do it.  ;D

Epervier

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2020, 06:16:44 AM »

Tanks and other armoured vehicles shoot at targets, never at ghosts.
Unless BAT has that kind of capability... but I doubt it.
When I was doing some work on tanks, I had problems like this sometimes. And also tanks that never fire.
These problems can have two causes.
The orientation of certain hooks in relation to the orientation of the "head" and/or "gun" meshes.
Or a mistake in the technics.ini!

@SAS~vampire_pilot
This tank works very well in my UP2.01!
I can provide you what I have to compare!

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If your results are not up to your expectations, tell yourself that as large oak was once an acorn ...

CDS025_DOGO

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2020, 05:59:06 PM »

Bug the same in BAT 3.82. No wonder it took the 8th Army so long to beat Rommel...

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2020, 07:38:32 AM »

what are the classes for this tank?

glibble

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2020, 07:45:20 PM »

Hi Vampire_pilot,

Sorry I don't know which class files belong to this mod as I don't know how to decode them.
However, I did find this page from Epervier:
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,20981.msg235609.html#msg235609
Seems like this tank originally came from Team Daidalos.
So my (very naive) guess is that the relevant class file is within the download zip file?

In other news, I've been experimenting with the hier.him file with some pretty funky results  :-|
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2020, 02:54:54 AM »

I would look at it if someone named me the classes just for this vehicle to start investigating. I just don't have the time to invest 100% into this bottom up. Help me out or it will take longer - since this is so since forever already, it is not high on my priority list in the 1-man show that is the BAT team at this point in time.

PS: it appears this particular 411 pack is the source of this bug. That's the version that is in BAT WAW as well. Someone who knows about armor needs to fix this in general on this pack.

Flanker27

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Re: Crusader Mk III Gun Rotation Bug
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2020, 07:33:10 AM »

I know about tanks and tank warfare however I don’t know the first thing about programing it I would be happy to help regarding historical aspects however
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