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Author Topic: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place  (Read 7718 times)

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UberDemon

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2020, 10:17:40 PM »

Man,

That is awesome!  I have never met any of the IL-2 mates in person...  Maybe some day.
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2020, 09:10:09 AM »

whats the Dakotas story?

The perfect outline of that particular Dakota's history can be found here: http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol146as.html

Quote
The Museum's Dakota No 6850

The Museum's new acquisition, No 6850, was built in the United States of America in 1944 by the Douglas Aircraft Corporation at Oklahoma City as part of Contract No AC40652. Shortly after completion, it was delivered to the United States Army Air Force with the serial number 43-49838 and painted in the standard Olive Drab/Neutral Grey of the USAAF.

On 18 January 1945 the aircraft was diverted to the Royal Air Force under the Lend-Lease Agreement as an RAF Dakota Mk IV with the serial number KN231. It was assigned to Air Command, South East Asia and delivered to India in March 1945 as part of a batch of 30 Dakota Mk IVs. There it remained in service until the end of the war, flying supplies over the 'hump' between India and China. Throughout this period, the aircraft served with Nos 31, 52 and 353 Squadrons, RAF, and, in 1949, it was still in service with No 48 Squadron, based at RAF Changi. In November 1951, the aircraft was returned to the United Kingdom and delivered to No 22 Maintenance Unit for storage and disposal.

In May 1953 the aircraft was sold to Airwork Ltd where it was converted to a Civilian Dakota Mk III and allocated the serial number G-AMZW. Two months later, Airwork Ltd sold the aircraft to Sudan Airways where it was registered as SN-AAH, later changed to ST-AAH. The aircraft remained in service with Sudan Airways until October 1965, when it was transferred to the Sudan Air Force with the serial number 424 after undergoing a thorough overhaul carried out by Scottish Aviation. This transfer did not last long; it was handed back to Sudan Airways in July 1967.


The veteran C-47 Dakota aircraft, No 6850, now on display at the
South African National Museum of Military History, Erlswold Way, Saxonwold,
Johannesburg, has come a long way since its Second World War service,
flying supplies over the 'hump' in South-East Asia.

On 17 May 1975, the aircraft arrived at Jan Smuts International Airport (now OR Tambo International) in Johannesburg, still painted in its Sudan Airways livery. It is uncertain how and why the aircraft came to this country from the Sudan. Immediately after arrival, it was sent to No 1 Aircraft Servicing Unit for paint stripping, before being taken on charge by the South African Air Force in August of that year with the serial number 6850, still configured as a Civilian Mk III, but with engine numbers 10314 and 12592. The aircraft was to be the second Dakota to be allocated that particular serial number, the original 6850 having crashed at AFB Swartkop in August 1972.

In 1976, No 6850 was given a complete overhaul at the SMF Field Aircraft Services and it was later modified to SMF standards 'at Snake Valley. On 18 May 1977, it was issued to No 44 Squadron at AFB Swartkop for deployment in the photo-reconnaissance/survey role. The engine numbers allocated at that stage were 10314 and 359680.

During the early 1980s, the aircraft underwent a conversion back to Mk IV status to improve performance. At that time, Project Algebra was initiated in which it was equipped with an electronic visual reconnaissance system with an approximate range of 130 km and which included a relay capability to either a ground station or another aircraft. The photograph of the aircraft taken in May 1989 depicts it fitted with an under-fuselage sensor/tv camera offset to the left side and various extra aerials. Details of operations in this role have, unfortunately, not been made public.


This photograph of No 6850, taken in May 1989, shows that the aircraft,
at that time, was fitted with an underfuselage sensor/camera and various aerials.

In 1990, after the introduction of Project Felstone, No 6850 was considered unsuitable for C-47 TP conversion, due to bad airframe conversion. This brought an end to the aircraft's operational service and it was grounded and placed in open storage at AFB Swartkop. In 1992, it was moved into position outside the SMF Museum hangars where it remained until June 2000, when it was transferred to Caesar's Palace, now known as Emperor's Palace (D Becker, 13 May 2009).



...and now time for some Spitfire porn again:



]cheers[
Mike
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2020, 02:50:28 AM »

Here's a question for you experts.
Anyone know what this folded sheet attached to the wing's leading edge is good for?
It's there on both wings.



The aircraft in question is an Atlas Impala Mk.II, S/N 1045:



]cheers[
Mike
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Flanker27

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2020, 06:50:39 AM »

A de-icing boot?
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2020, 06:56:14 AM »

You mean some kind of mounting for de-icing boots?
Highly unlikely me thinks.
What would such de-icing boots look like then?
Why is there no reference to such devices?
And after all: Mind you, this is a plane made in South Africa, for South Africa.

]cheers[
Mike
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Flanker27

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2020, 06:59:46 AM »

De-icing boots tend to be a rubber thing on the leading edge of the wing some are heated and others inflate using bleed air from the engines, the fact that it’s in SA doesn’t matter as it’s still pretty cold at 30,000 feet
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Flanker27

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2020, 07:01:16 AM »

As I’m not there I cant say for sure it’s just a guess
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Flanker27

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2020, 07:01:50 AM »

Might be a vortex generator as well
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2020, 07:12:10 AM »

No worries and thanks for the guess.
Now that there is no rubber thing on that plane and I couldn't find any trace of de-icing boots on any Impala or MB-326 for that matter, I'm afraid that I still don't believe it's related to de-icing.
Sure it's cold at 30k feet, but it's quite unlikely for an Impala to fly into thunderstorm clouds at FL 300 intentionally ;)
The only anti-icing thing that is known on the MB-326 is compressor bleed air for the windscreen.

The vortex generator might make sense, at least some aerodynamic device to a similar effect, as I don't really see how a folded sheet like this could create vortices...

]cheers[
Mike
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Mick

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2020, 07:56:33 AM »

... here is the Aermacchi MB326 K (K stands for Kombat) cutaway, and this mysterious part is not even represented ... :-X

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Plowshare

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2020, 08:19:10 AM »

From Wikipedia:
"It was also found that the Corsair's right wing could stall and drop rapidly and without warning during slow carrier landings. In addition, if the throttle were suddenly advanced (for example, during an aborted landing) the left wing could stall and drop so quickly that the fighter could flip over with the rapid increase in power. These potentially lethal characteristics were later solved through the addition of a small, 6 in (150 mm)-long stall strip to the leading edge of the outer right wing, just outboard of the gun ports. This allowed the right wing to stall at the same time as the left."

I wonder if these parts serve the same purpose? It sure looks the same as images I've seen of the Corsair. However, why on both wings? The jet engine doesn't develop the torque that a radial engine and prop would so perhaps the two strips just affect the stall speed?
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: SAS~Storebror and SAS~Cirx in the same place
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2020, 08:31:13 AM »

I think Plowshare nailed it.
Probably it's related to what is being described here: http://fighterjet.com.au/2016/12/15/macchi-mb-326h/
Quote
Just over halfway through its service life it was decided to complete a ‘life of type extension’ by refurbishing the wing mounts and re-skinning the wings. This proved to be a disaster with one aircraft suffering a catastrophic failure of the wing attachment point in mid-air killing the pilot FLTLT Russ Page. It was subsequently found that the refurbishing of the wing mounting points was not conducted correctly. Additionally the wing re-skinning was also unsuccessful requiring small triangular pieces of metal, called sharks teeth, to be attached to the wing leading edge to ensure proper airflow over the wing surface.

Probably it's been used to induce kind of an "artificial stall" so that the wing would enter a controlled stall further inboard, far away from the ailerons, before the plane would actually enter an uncontrollable stall on the outboard wing section.
That at least would make sense.

]cheers[
Mike
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