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Author Topic: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.  (Read 37778 times)

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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #264 on: May 23, 2021, 12:58:11 PM »

Hello again guys, a little further forward. 8)

Following the last post from Shessi I decided to see if I could actually find some specific information
on Thorneycroft engines, sadly mainly dead ends although in a round about route I found myself on
a Wiki page devoted to Diesel engines and there found two illustrations of a cut away engine that
has certain parts similar to what I am building. :o

This is a four cylinder I think and only shows the left side, sadly there was no information I could see
as to who actually made it but it does give give you a good look inside:




Looking at the diesel injector parts you can see the similarity to what I have been making for the Thorneycroft,
unfortunately the only information was that for the photographer no indication as to who made the engine/cutaway
or its use but it posed certain questions:

Was it actually a Thorneycroft variant and where was this cutaway photographed?

If not a Thorneycroft are the injector parts standard for this type of engine, could they be a patented item from another manufacturer?


Anyway, I will leave you with those questions and carry on building, too much thinking hurts my brain. :D

There are various parts attached to the side of the injector body that seems be be part of a plate that bolts
to the side, a cast part on the body with what I think to be a gasket and then the plate:





Next what I assume is a filler plug maybe for oil or some type of lubricant:





There are three of these valves that are part of what looks to be copper pipes, possibly for the fuel:





Mapped and painted before cloning:





A series of shapes under construction to make the body of this injector:





And some kind of regulator that clips on:





As usual I utilise whatever I can to save me making new stuff, here I separate the ready made nuts and
bolts ready to re-map them to other areas of the template and those already newly painted:





Final pieces coming together for this particular construction, pipes and other additions will be added later
once I map and paint what I have:





Enough already, time to catch the last match of the season. ;)


Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Shessi

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #265 on: May 26, 2021, 03:19:21 PM »

Hi Pete,
Great picture of a 4 cylinder diesel.

Found a few leads...I didn't see this before but there is a Thornycroft register (all things Thornycroft...surprsingly! lol)  https://www.thornycroft.org.uk/New%20Gallery.htm

This the pic galley and halfway down are the engines, and I think your is a CR6 or maybe a QR6.  Top right is an email contact list, I'm sure if you asked, someone would be only too happy to help.

Also found some Thornycroft engine brochures..https://www.internalfire.com/paper.php?cat=7

If you type in Thorncroft in the search box it gives you a number of Thornycroft ones, I DL'd the CR6 and QR versions, which are from the late 50's but have the same layout as your's.

Found comments on an old forum post that the petrol engine was an AC6 and the diesel was an NR8.  The attached pic is of the info plate with the Elvington Amazon, which would suggest it should have a petrol engine. And, the old post suggests the SWB model should also be a petrol engine and the LWB could be either petrol or diesel.  Your post title includes AC6, but you're doing a diesel engine for it?!  But does it matter??, I bet they made SWB Amazon Coles crane's with siesel engines as well.

Confused?!...I know I am....phew.....

Cheers

Shessi

ps Last day of footie was great wasn't it.








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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #266 on: May 27, 2021, 02:47:40 AM »

Hello Shessi, thank you very much for the links and update really appreciated. 8)

To build the engine all I had that gave any clear indication of the complete engine were those photographs from the Belfast restoration, that vehicle is also the long wheel base, not that I noticed when I started this, so you are equally as confused as me. :D 

I was forced to use what was available and to be honest I did not really know what type of engine it was, you guys have had to correct my imaginings all through this build, consider my model something along the lines of a restoration project where good parts are hard to find so what came to hand was assembled and used, this got a short wheel base and Diesel engine to represent all the variants. :o

For the most part I would assume there is quite a lot of commonality within the engine bay with changes where necessary to accommodate the various engine types, the drivers side has a lot of covered ports that I figured where for a right hand drive but might equally be alterations necessary for the petrol version so I am eager to see these engine brochures you mention, if they are so fundamentally different I will have to build another engine just for the rivet counters amongst us. o_O

The purists could just use the full engine cover provided on the short base they have, hide the engine, there sorted. ;)

You might yet get a long and short with different engine types, I could actually lengthen the base as a quick fix, that would not be much fun though, f### this could go on indefinitely, where you actually waiting for the Queen Mary and its tractor unit?


Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Shessi

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #267 on: May 28, 2021, 04:29:56 AM »

Hi Pete,
Just wanted to say that my previous post was not questioning or criticising what you were doing, and I appreciate you're not taking it that way..;)

Yes, the NI refurbished vehicle, that you started your as your reference vehicle, is a LWB version, this has and could have a diesel engine; the Elvington vehicle, a SWB, as the placard states is a petrol engine, which both are correct from what the forums say.  As you say apart from the chassis, there can't be many differences between a petrol or diesel engined vehicle spec, and agreed the engine compartment must be the same. 

I am really surprised there isn't more (any!) literature about the Amazon/Coles vehicles and cranes?!

I'd bet a lot of money though, there were diesel engined manufactured or re-engined (in the 'field') SWB vehicles used during the war, so every combo of chassis and engine is correct. ]thumleft[

And yes you can always close the engine compartment covers! ha!

Cheers

Shessi



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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #268 on: May 28, 2021, 10:52:01 AM »

I am really surprised there isn't more (any!) literature about the Amazon/Coles vehicles and cranes?!


Hello Shessi, this has surprised me also. :o

It is possible the various museums have some literature to go with their particular vehicles but to be honest when I last went to visit any aviation related venue it was the aircraft that were my primary focus not the support equipment. :-[

Most of the photographs I have seen of various Amazons essentially seem to have the same engine as the one in Belfast, it might be that most that went on to civilian careers were the Diesel type, from a commercial viewpoint they might have been the more popular, hence why the little information we have come across is very similar although we have seen vehicles range from pristine to dilapidated. ;)

Until I have some clear evidence to show any major alterations I am forced by necessity to carry on as I am, hopefully in time a good photograph of the petrol engine will emerge or a document might turn up, both long and short are seen in wartime and peacetime images so they might have occupied the same production line with customer requirements determining just what and how many were made at any time.


I took a look at those brochures, sadly from a model building perspective there was little there other than you could see the similarity of some to what I am trying to make, I really did not imagine just how many versions of petrol and diesel engines this company actually made, no wonder we cannot find enough for this project as it is knowing exactly where to look, some good information in the brochures for the techies like yourself though and certainly worth a look.

The other site I have already seen, however, I had not noticed the sub headings for different sections, the rusty engine is definite favorite there, again though so little to actually see considering how many thousands of trucks they must have produced, I still think private collectors might be the way to go but finding them is the issue.

Anyway, thank you very much for trying, it all helps and is really appreciated. 8)


So, on it goes with what information I have, mapping of some of what you saw last time:




With paint applied:




It was time to deal with some of the pipework from the injector so again I turned to previously made items
to see what could be converted:




I had to extend the exhaust upwards so I could get a better idea of where things went, here a piece is added:





First piece of pipe adapted:





New mapping as there had been some considerable tweaking:





The pipes and fittings would ultimately become two separate meshes mixing and matching things to bring
the poly count to roughly equal with various brackets and screws thrown in:





The whole lot painted and ready for extracting:





And finally into the game for a trial fit, all was okay:






Not sure just what area to focus on next, maybe take a day or two away from things first. :D


Take care and be safe.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Shessi

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #269 on: June 02, 2021, 06:02:57 AM »

Hi Pete,
The fuel pump/filter that you've just done, and the whole injector unit is superb, the colour is spot on, escpecially when you see it in the sim with a bit of shine/reflection on it.

I'm not causing you more work, honest!, but that engine detail quality really shows up the 'hexagonal' front wheel tyres, the hubs are great...but the tyres.......

And so the search goes on...

Cheers

Shessi
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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #270 on: June 02, 2021, 06:38:55 AM »

Hello Shessi, glad you like it all so far. 8)

If memory serves the wheels are a set of six and are just below the polygon threshold for the mesh and it would mean making and mapping them all over again and separating them into more parts so at least for now I will leave as is, sorry but I do not need the added work right now. ;)

I did not realise just how much detail I would incorporate when I started this, the thought the engine would get as detailed as it did never entered my mind, best bet is don't look too closely at the external detail it might disappoint, through a gunsight is close enough. :D


Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Flying H

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #271 on: June 02, 2021, 12:49:22 PM »

Don´t you think the "hexagonal" tires gives a better grip on slippery surface?  :D :D ;D
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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #272 on: June 03, 2021, 05:40:43 AM »

Don´t you think the "hexagonal" tires gives a better grip on slippery surface?  :D :D ;D

Absolutely Flying H, this baby will go anywhere, anytime, no problem. :D

Strange thing is with these wheels the back set actually look to be more smooth in appearance yet they are supposed to be the chunky ones, maybe the texture on the front highlights the shape more because of the normal type thread. :o


When I get around to finishing this off I will have to revisit the wheels:




What I would call the civilian types have smaller rear wheels more in line with the front, intended more for
normal road use rather than military types that might spend their working lives off road.

Anyway, you all know how my attention is easily diverted so I have to continue with the engine, once that
is finished there will be the opportunity to revisit certain areas, some things will need to be altered and parts
integrated with others to bring the piece count down a little, where currently I have some meshes that are
very low in polys the hope is to join those with similar items if possible to make less items but all close to the
mesh limit if I can, we will see later what if anything can be achieved, for now I have to focus on the engine
in order to at least get that part of the build finished hopefully without too much further distraction.  ;)

No promises, this thing has taken a great deal of time as is, I still have the other vehicles in the set to do as well
remember. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #273 on: June 11, 2021, 10:37:24 AM »

Hello again guys, more of the parts coming together. ;)

This is the rear to the Diesel injector body, it seems to be two separate castings:



It is hard to see exactly what the very rear looks like but I put something together:



Most of the lumps and bumps constructed or borrowed from previous assemblies:



I assume this large plugged hole is giving access to the chamber for some type of lubricant:



The screw cap under assembly:



Mapping underway, I usually x-form all the parts before I start otherwise some odd things happen with
shapes during the process, the x-form essentially locks in their shape especially if things have been stretched
or altered from their original and helps all the parts conform to a set size:



The whole assembly painted and joined together:



There are still some parts to add to complete this area but the main body shapes are all now done leaving
only some kind of switch mechanism and rods, following that the exhaust system as the only major set of
shapes still to construct, most other things still to make are cables, bolts and pipes to join all the dots together
to complete after that. : 8)


Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Mission_bug

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #274 on: June 19, 2021, 12:58:43 PM »

Hello again guys, detailing of the injector unit continues. ;)

Before I carried on it had again become obvious certain things did not quite scale, this has
dogged me throughout the engine build so more adjusting was done by using the best image
I had as far as a side view goes:




Construction could then continue of the lever mechanism on the side of the rear casting:





There were quite a few parts necessary to build this and construction here is going at a pace:





The overall workings are hidden behind the exhaust so some areas were difficult to see and construct
but I joined things together as best I could, if further information becomes available I will modify accordingly:





With all the parts made on to mapping:





With a majority of parts mapped they are exported to the unwrap program:





From there to Paint:





There is a rocker arm or something again hidden behind the exhaust with little detail visible so as usual
I improvised and made it up as I went along just so it is actually attached to something so at least it
looks plausible, again, if information is found I will alter accordingly:





And into game to see how it looks so far:





Next up is the exhaust system, I have begun looking at just how it attaches and started construction
so that will keep me out of mischief again for a while:






Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

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Flying H

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Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
« Reply #275 on: June 19, 2021, 04:28:09 PM »

Looking great Pete. You were asking (or wondering) some time ago about the big dark screw on the injector body. Been working on dieasel engines in the -90s, I thingk it´s a port for adjusting the timing of the injection of fuel into the cylinders, if I rememeber right.
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