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Author Topic: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942  (Read 25466 times)

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Squashman

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2017, 12:02:43 PM »

Outstanding Kopf.  That takes a lot of guesswork out.  All of my sources was from recollections.  So, I wonder, where was Samaria 1?  Cheers
Take a look in the very top right of this Google Earth capture


About 12 Km NE of Samarinda



It could be the footprint of an old airfield??

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Squashman

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2017, 12:08:38 PM »

I love the map but cant run it. I have deleted the text in the labels file which will cause a large drop in FPS when full but when I open the map and zoom in, it turns into a slide show. Has anyone else had this?

Hi Bombs

Did you download the "new" version with the smaller file sizes??
If not, it's the same link in Post#1


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solotk

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2017, 12:37:43 PM »

Thanks for the confirmation Kopf,

I'm not sure there was ever a 'Samarinda 1" unless it was an airfield closer to the actual town of Samarinda itself. I've been looking for a reference to Samarinda airfield but can't find one so far.

Czech Texan, thanks for that pointer but I tend not to take Pacific Wrecks as gospel when it comes to precise airfield locations and always prefer to do my own confirmation research. The internet is littered with cut and paste references , especially noticeable on Wikipedia and for certain North African airfield locations since largely disappeared.

I had a errr forthright discussion with one worthy when I questioned his grids for one airfield. "I am acknowledged as an expert in this" says he, "what makes you think you know more than me about this?" "Because I'm looking at the carefully annotated original Luftwaffe happy snaps that give lat and long and you are 12 miles out?" says I lol :D

I think no matter how much research I do in this, it's always better to try and get a concensus with other people looking at the same thing. That's probably a hangover from my day job though :) Many thanks to everyone taking an interest in this, and helping Squash to achieve what he's setting out to do!

Sorry Squash, you posted as I was writing. the feature you mark is 3/4 mile long centered   0°24'50.79"S 117°12'18.92"E so adequate to get a Buffalo off, and is closer to Samarinda. There is also a road link to the East so it would make sense as an airfield location. If the photos hadn't been deliberately smudged I'd be looking for other features that would suggest an airfield. EDIT - The 2002 roolback shows nothing at that location, which may be the result of severe obscuration at the request of the Indo Government. The 2017 image however, shows what we'd all think was an airfield, if only the image was sharper :(

The annoying thing is I've just remembered I have an exact pre-war reference to Samarinda 1 somewhere in my notes and research material. I'm going to have a dig through tonight to see if I can find it.

Regards

Solotk
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Gubi

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2017, 02:17:16 PM »

Now that I am back at my computer and can take a detailed look at the google image above, some details of my research are coming back to me.  My work was done in the mid 90's before I had ever thought of Google Earth.  However, I work for a GeoEngineering firm and had access to bunches of satellite images from Geologic applications we were using for historical site research in those days.  I took advantage of that luxery when creating many of the Borneo and DEI maps I made for Rising Sun.  I cheated.  The feature depicted in the Samarinda photo above is almost exactly where I placed the airfield on my Rising Sun map.  I can tell you, for sure, that in my ignorance, I assumed that to be Samarinda 2.  I placed mine a little further to the east, with reference to the notes collected during my research as shown in an above post.  Samarinda, itself fell on 7 February, 42 and it wasn't until the 8th that Samarinda 2 was occupied. I assumed that they were one and the same, without knowing, for sure, where Melak was located.  But as solotk and Kopf have shown, Samarinda 2 was some 60 miles NNW of Samarinda, which would make sense, because of the Dutch wanting to keep the airfield hidden...and could explain the Dutch surrender of Samarinda 2 airfield the day after Samarinda town was taken.   Hmmm.

It was characteristic of the Dutch to name airfields 1 and 2, i.e. Palembag 1 and Palembang 2 and Singkawang 1 and Singkawang 2, the number two being the newer and more remote of the two.  It would be interesting to see if the feature referred to above and misidentified by myself is in fact Samarinda 1.

Thanx so much Gentlemen.  I have not revisited this puzzle for many years.

Cheers
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SAS~Bombsaway

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2017, 02:54:06 PM »

I love the map but cant run it. I have deleted the text in the labels file which will cause a large drop in FPS when full but when I open the map and zoom in, it turns into a slide show. Has anyone else had this?

Hi Bombs

Did you download the "new" version with the smaller file sizes??
If not, it's the same link in Post#1




I downloaded it but still have the issue. I've been looking but cant find out why.
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Squashman

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2017, 03:14:54 PM »

I love the map but cant run it. I have deleted the text in the labels file which will cause a large drop in FPS when full but when I open the map and zoom in, it turns into a slide show. Has anyone else had this?

Hi Bombs

Did you download the "new" version with the smaller file sizes??
If not, it's the same link in Post#1




I downloaded it but still have the issue. I've been looking but cant find out why.

A few people reported problems loading and navigating - It is a very big map! - so I dropped the file sizes of map F and map ed_m01 from "huge" (90+Mb) to circa 25Mb - Try checking the map folder and make sure these files are both around 24.259Kb

regards
Squash



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solotk

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2017, 03:24:00 PM »

It gets more confusing Gubi!

"Fortress Against the Sun" quotes Captain Broadhurst as conducting his recce of " Samarinda II and Kendari II" in B-17D 40-3061 on New Years Day 1942. The Squadron ORB also records Captain Broadhurst as flying to Samarinda II

However, in the official USAAF history , those Airfields are quoted as being Samarinda and Kendari. F.A.T.S then goes on to describe the location of "Samarinda II" as "laying in a thick jungle along a tropical river. We were to take an irregular course to the coast of Borneo, then fly for so many minutes after which we'd be directly over the airfield"  Looking at the map and GE , if you arrived overhead Samarinda City it would be child's play to find the airfield following the river with a stop watch.

So if the airfield we've all been looking at is Samarinda II , then where was Samarinda 1 and did it even exist? This is almost as knotty as trying to find and identify for a cast iron certainty , the location of P2 :)
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Gubi

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2017, 03:44:11 PM »

I am familiar with that reference.  And, obviously, I was made bamboozled.  I'm, now, fairly certain that Samarinda 2 is accurately located, thanx to you and Kopf and your references, which were unfamiliar to me back then.  There was a Samarinda 1 airfield.  This reference was one of the things that influenced my conclusion that "an" airfield was proximal to Samarinda town.  It was a puzzle to me then...and well Gentlemen...welcome aboard to the ship of NEI research.

Cheers and prost.
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Gubi

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2017, 03:55:13 PM »

Re Samarinda 2's location, there were some 5 or 6 USAAF B-24 raids on the field in 1944, so with the data provided by you guys, I would think that No. 2 is probably located where you have pinpointed. The references to the "airfield near the river, over Samarinda" was what perplexed me.  I queried a number of forums for the location of "Samarinda" airfield.  The descriptions of "to the east" of Samarinda are the clues that I followed (and became to assume).  With Earth curvature, I convinced myself that the feature we are looking at in the Samarinda photo, quite well would have appeared "east" of the town.

C'est la vie.

Cheers
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Gubi

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2017, 04:01:33 PM »

...and regarding "P2"...well there was no need for me to have to pinpoint it's actual location...so I never attempted.

Again cheers and prost...
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solotk

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2017, 04:01:49 PM »

I think somewhere in the mists of time "10 minutes flying time from Samarinda" became "10 KM from Samarinda" :)

Enjoying this research, and going back through all my notes and downloads. Just wish I'd indexed them properly at the time AND not spread them across several hard drives :(
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Gubi

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Re: Eastern Java, Borneo - 1942
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2017, 04:03:22 PM »

...my notes are now just a hodgepodge of handwitten paper...
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