Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Murray]

But is it real? Or just some fantasy loadout, like Mk103+2xMG151/15s?

[santobr]

Thank you very much, sir.



Just a question:
In RL the pilot could adjust the tailplane in flight or it was adjusted on the ground? And your mod?


Thank you again.


santobr.

[Twister]

Bf-109 G10, G10Erla, G10C3 have "No MG131s" loadouts
Bf109K could use these loadouts too
so why not?

I heard only about G8, but it was a special case - recon plane with camera.
But... why not.
However, I'm really doubtful about mixing bombrack and gunpods in one loadout. AFAIK, bombrack and gunpods were installed on planes for different purposes - bombracks for Jagdbombers (fighters-bombers), and gunpods for bomber destroyers.

But is it real? Or just some fantasy loadout, like Mk103+2xMG151/15s?

Not just fantasy - I've also seen mentions of Mk103M + 2x MG131 and Mk108 + 2x MG151/15 loadouts.
I'm not sure how generalized it was. But, is no smoke without a fire, I think.

Just a question:
In RL the pilot could adjust the tailplane in flight or it was adjusted on the ground? And your mod?

On some planes, Ar-234 for ex., tailplane was ajusted on ground, depending on bomb load.
On planes, like Bf-109, Me-262, FW-190, it was ajusting in flight, serving as trimmer.

[Shido]

However, I'm really doubtful about mixing bombrack and gunpods in one loadout. AFAIK, bombrack and gunpods were installed on planes for different purposes - bombracks for Jagdbombers (fighters-bombers), and gunpods for bomber destroyers.

Twister, which one do you mean?


MG 151/15 Motorkanone for Bf-109 F3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 1x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2xMk 108 Gunpods for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2xMk 108 Gunpods + 1x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2xMG 151/20 Gunpods for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2xMG 151/20 Gunpods + 1x Droptank  for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2xWfr.Gr.21 for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 2xWfr.Gr.21 + 1x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone (No MG131s) for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone (No MG131s) + 1x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
MG 151/20 Motorkanone (No MG131s) + 2x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
2xWfr.Gr.21 for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
2xWfr.Gr.21 + 1x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;
2x Droptank for Bf-109 K4, K4C3;



Bf 109G-6/Trop bomber destroyer with ETC (bombrack) carring 1x Droptank + 2xMG 151/20 Gunpods
http://5.blog.xuite.net/5/c/3/8/14251252/blog_467567/txt/17721925/104.jpg

Bf 109G-6 - Hptm. Ludwig Franzisket, Kommandeur I./JG 27 - Austria, 1944
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/ases/franzisket2_gr.jpg

[Twister]

Bf 109G-6/Trop bomber destroyer with ETC (bombrack) carring 1x Droptank + 2xMG 151/20 Gunpods
http://5.blog.xuite.net/5/c/3/8/14251252/blog_467567/txt/17721925/104.jpg

Bf 109G-6 - Hptm. Ludwig Franzisket, Kommandeur I./JG 27 - Austria, 1944
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/ases/franzisket2_gr.jpg

Well, U had to start with something like that, it makes things simplier.


Strange, but plane on first picture is called Me Bf108. It's hard to believe such evidence >>>

However, on the Bf 109G-6 photo is really visible something like ETC 900 bombrack. Curious, is it field mod or factory stock.


Anyway, it has nothing to do with K-4.
But we can assume (especially, for some hipotetic scenario), in fly zoo, which became Luftwaffe plane park in last half-year of its existance, were used same modifacation kits and its combinations for K-4 along with G series.

Since v4.101m release, it's time to make some upgrades to this mod. Will see, what people say.

[Shido]

Strange, but plane on first picture is called Me Bf108.

it's just a typo

"..einen 300l-Abwurfbehälter (Bf 109G-6/R3) oder zwei in Gondeln unter den Flügeln montierte MK-108-30mm-Maschinenkanonen (Bf 109G-6/R4) bzw. MG 151/20 (Bf 109G-6/R-6)(Diese Variante trug den Spitznamen "Kanonenboot"). Die Rüstsätze wurden häufig untereinander kombiniert, so dass eine Maschine z.b. sowohl mit einem Zusatztank, als auch mit Waffengondeln ausgerüstet wurde (in diesem Fall Bf 109G-6/R3/R6)."

However, on the Bf 109G-6 photo is really visible something like ETC 900 bombrack. Curious, is it field mod or factory stock.


Anyway, it has nothing to do with K-4.

Any K-4 like a G-6 was able to load a droptank and gondolas (Long range bomber destroyer), it's just a matter or whether they were needed at the time. The gondolas and ETC were designed so as to be easily removed and put back if needed. The a/c were not necessarily delivered with them when leaving the factory but could at any time be fitted with them.

But we can assume (especially, for some hipotetic scenario), in fly zoo, which became Luftwaffe plane park in last half-year of its existance, were used same modifacation kits and its combinations for K-4 along with G series.

Since v4.101m release, it's time to make some upgrades to this mod. Will see, what people say.

looking forward for this one

Thank you for your work.

[Twister]

Any K-4 like a G-6 was able to load a droptank and gondolas (Long range bomber destroyer), it's just a matter or whether they were needed at the time. The gondolas and ETC were designed so as to be easily removed and put back if needed. The a/c were not necessarily delivered with them when leaving the factory but could at any time be fitted with them.

Yes, as I curriently know (have read some books), same loadouts were proposed for K-4, but in reality K-4 rarely was seen with something except droptanks, sometimes in combination with MG151/20 gunpods. I believe, it was the only modification kits used on K-4, and only few machines was fitted with additional guns.
Gunpods have to be riveted to the sheathing and construction of the plane, so, I think, it was not so easy to fit and remove in the field. I believe, it was never removed, when purposely installed.
Anyway, U suggested some few reasonable historical and "what-if" loadouts. Working on it.

[Twister]

Removed MG 151/20 Motorkanone loadout for Bf-109 F2, G10 & G14, since it became stock in v4.10.
Added some new historical & "what-if" loadouts for G-6 (late), G-14, G-10, K-4 & K-4C3.

Added powerful G-6/U6 configuration:
U6: MK 108 Motorkanone +2x MK 108
U6R3: 3x MK 108 + Typ D Abwurftank (droptank)

Added bomb loadouts for G-10:
R1: AB 250
R1: SC 250

Added rocket loadouts for G-10, G-14, K-4 & K-4C3:
R7: 2x Werfer-Granate 21
R7R3: 2x Wfr.Gr.21 + Abwurftank


Rearranged K-4 & K-4C3 gun loadouts, added some bomb loadouts.
K-4C3 loadouts:
MK 103M Motorkanone
MK 103M + 2x MG 151/15

K-4 & K-4C3 loadouts:
MK 108 + 2x MG 151/15
MG 151/20 + 2x MG 151/15
MG 151/20 Motorkanone
MG 151/20 Motorkanone +Abwurftank
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + AB 250
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + AB 500
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + SD 500
MG 151/20 Motorkanone + 4x SC 70


R6: 3x MG 151/20
R6R3: 3x MG 151/20 + Abwurftank
U6R3: 3x MK 108 + Abwurftank

Slightly changed G-14 AI behaviour. Now it has become more prone to turn fight, and IMHO become more dangerous, at least, to other AI 
K-4C3 marked as recon plane.

Known issues: due to absence of special hooks in stock 3D models, some loadouts looks awful in loadout screen, but in the game it looks O'k.

Download link in first post. Have fun !

[Shido]

Many thanks Twister
 

[Murray]

But is it real? Or just some fantasy loadout, like Mk103+2xMG151/15s?

Not just fantasy - I've also seen mentions of Mk103M + 2x MG131 and Mk108 + 2x MG151/15 loadouts.
I'm not sure how generalized it was. But, is no smoke without a fire, I think.

That's not the case. The Mk103M was never installed in any Bf109 variant. There were never MG151/15 cowling guns on any variant. You can see there is a lot of mistruths and falsehoods surrounding the history of the Bf109. You cannot simply take every off-the-wall reference and assume it is real. You will make many bad assumptions that way. Mk108 gunpods were never used (only tested). Even on the Bf109K-6 the Mk108 were mounted inside the wing (not in gunpods).

<steps up on soapbox>

109K-4s did not fly with 20mm gunpods. If any were sent to the squadrons with gunpods on, they were removed before being used. The war changed. Gunpods were bad. You needed all the performance you could get. So, do you want to do what "could" have been done, but never would have been done? Or do you want to do what was actually done or considered? Because there were many decisions made. The Ta152 could quite easily store 250 rounds per gun for the MG151/20s. It was the same amunition setup as the Fw190. They cut the ammo back only to save weight. It wasn't worth the loss in performance when the default package was already lethal. The same goes for the 109K-4. The 30mm nose gun was much more effective than 2 gunpods, and you lost no speed/roll/climb. The next version, the K-4, changes that to 3x Mk108s. On Me262s, Me163s, Ta152s and late model 190Ds, on late model Bf109s, on night fighters, and on most planes still flying at the end of WW2 the main gun was the Mk108. We may not like it because of our game and how it is modeled, but the Germans liked it because it killed.

<steps down from soapbox>


I do not like fantasy weapons loadouts. If you were to separate the trim from the weapons and make 2 different mods, I would be able to load just the trim mod and leave behind the guns mod.

One graphical thing about the trim, though: it should pivot from the trailing edge. That was the fixed point. There is a screw drive along the leading edge that pushes it up or down, but the rear point didn't move.

[Twister]

But is it real? Or just some fantasy loadout, like Mk103+2xMG151/15s?

Not just fantasy - I've also seen mentions of Mk103M + 2x MG131 and Mk108 + 2x MG151/15 loadouts.
I'm not sure how generalized it was. But, is no smoke without a fire, I think.

That's not the case. The Mk103M was never installed in any Bf109 variant. There were never MG151/15 cowling guns on any variant. You can see there is a lot of mistruths and falsehoods surrounding the history of the Bf109. You cannot simply take every off-the-wall reference and assume it is real. You will make many bad assumptions that way

I believe, there have been experiments or research, at least. And, at least, one simple mod should reflect it.

I do not like fantasy weapons loadouts. If you were to separate the trim from the weapons and make 2 different mods, I would be able to load just the trim mod and leave behind the guns mod.

Actually, it can be separated. Leave just BF109_tailplane folder in mod install, that's it.

[Shido]

Gunpods have to be riveted to the sheathing and construction of the plane, so, I think, it was not so easy to fit and remove in the field. I believe, it was never removed, when purposely installed.

Installation of the underwing gun pods was a simple task that could be quickly performed by the unit's armourers, and imposed a reduction of speed of only 8 km/h (5 mph). [Source: Radinger, Willy and Wolgang Otto. Messerschmitt Bf 109 F-K Development, Testing, Production.]