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Author Topic: Roland C.II  (Read 1670 times)

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Koty

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Roland C.II
« on: January 22, 2017, 02:23:44 AM »

Well, simply... installed the BAT. Tried. The Rolland overheats really fast - and cannot even fly level without overheating, is that normal? Can someone test it out?
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SpongeBob

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 12:22:54 PM »

Hello!
I've just tested the LFG Roland DII in DOF and you are right. She overheats very, very quickly.
However, it seems a rather common feature in many airplanes from DOF era. Since there is no way to coold down engines but pulling throttle down and wait that surrounding air absorbs heat, it can be quite hard to fly with them.

I'm now flying the Nieuport 10 and she also overheats rather quickly (although not so fast as the Roland). After some testing, I've found that external temperature greatly affects overheating behaviour. For example, in Belarus 1916 map, temperatures on August 20th range from 40º C at 1:00 am to 48 ºC at 12:00 pm, making almost impossible to climb with the Nieuport. However, in the same map on April 20th, temperatures range from 26 ºC to 30 ºC. The engine still overheats, but only at throttle above 55-60%, making the flying experience challenging but manageable.

I advise you to check and record temperatures of the map you want to fly and experiment with the Roland on several dates and hours, trying to find the conditions that allow flying with this plane.
What I do to find out temperatures in maps is to place a plane with a thermometer in the cockpit, run the mission and read the gauge. The best plane I've found for this is the Brewster F2A-2 Buffalo (in WAW): it has a nice thermometer down on the left, just in front of the throttle.
Maybe there is a more forthright method, but this is the only one I know.

Probably you would have to fly in winter and avoiding midday. Good luck!
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SAS~Monty27

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 01:18:15 PM »

This has been discussed at length many times previously but probably deserves a section in the manual as more people fly Dawn of Flight, WWI in 412. 

The Overheat and Gyro features introduced by TD are not calibrated for the older, slower WWI Flight Models.  Many of them have very different engines to later WWII aircraft as well, blip throttles and such. 

The full solution is to fully update the WWI Flight Models to 412.  This may be done in time.  The interim solution is to turn the advanced flight model features off from the difficulty menu.
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Koty

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 06:22:23 PM »

actually ^^;

The thing overheats so much that it is virtually impossible to fly it straight.
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SAS~Monty27

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2017, 06:49:49 PM »

actually ^^;

The thing overheats so much that it is virtually impossible to fly it straight.

WOT?  I just posted an answer. ANY comparison with the wrong 'difficulty' settings for the mod is irrelevant.
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SpongeBob

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2017, 09:48:39 AM »

Hi!

Well, like Don Quijote, it seems I've been fighting against windmills thinking they were giants.

I've been flying the Nieuport 10 for the last two months, learning how to deal with the overheating problem, but after Monty's answer, and some research, I've finally convinced myself that this is an overmodelled IL2 problem, not a problem of the real plane itself. As Monty says, maybe this thread deserves a small clarification.

In his DOF campaign document, or at least the version I've downloaded, it is clearly said (p. 2) that Torque & Gyro Effects, and Flutter Effect should be switched OFF because flight models were not accurately modelled for WWI planes. However, nothing was said about Overheating. I know that it has been treated in some SAS threads, like the one dedicated to the Fokker Eindecker. But I always thought it was a matter of taste: overheating was a bit overmodelled, but it was not completely unrealistic, so it was up to you if switched ON or OFF.

I spent some hours experimenting with outside temperatures and throttle management, until I felt I knew how to fly under such conditions. I must admit I enjoy myself during these experiments! But after Monty's words, I made some further research, and to my dismay I discovered that rotary engines (such as the Nieuport ones) were developed especially to lessen engine overheating. The whole engine spins, creating an air current that cools down the cylinders temperature, even when the plane was stopped on land. Thus, rotary engines would suffer even less overheating problems than inline engines, which need an external cooling system (usually liquid). Inline engines were also more vulnerable to battle damage, because shrapnel can affect that additional cooling system, eventually leading to overheating.
On the contrary, rotary engines had some disadvantages, such as a strong torque effect, and high oil and fuel consumption (under 'rotary engine' in wikipedia, it is said that this was partly due to the fact that the engine was typically run at full throttle. I would like to read a more reliable source for this).

Sorry for the long speech. In conclusion, the severe overheating problem seen in many IL2 WWI planes, which forces you to fly at around 50% throttle, seems to be completely unrealistic and unhistorical according to what is said above. As recommended by Monty, I will turn OFF overheating model until flight models are changed. However, additional information on the subject will always be welcome.
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Koty

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2017, 06:17:41 PM »

actually ^^;

The thing overheats so much that it is virtually impossible to fly it straight.

WOT?  I just posted an answer. ANY comparison with the wrong 'difficulty' settings for the mod is irrelevant.

Oh sorry, I must have overlooked bits of it, having read it late into the night ^^;
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SAS~Monty27

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2017, 01:02:55 AM »

To be honest with everyone, I have always turned OFF overheating, even in WAW!  I do like to play with reduced fuel levels to encourage more prudent flight practice but the overheating feature has always been way to sensitive, while the AI don't seem to care!
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SpongeBob

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Re: Roland C.II
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2017, 09:22:04 AM »

Hahahaha!!!

Well Monty, you naughty boy...



Concerning AI, I remember the old days of IL2 when overheating didn't affect AI planes at all. But nowadays I have the suspicion that it is taken into account even for AI. When overheating was ON, I felt that my Nieuport-10 AI companions couldn't climb much better than me, and in particularly hot conditions (more than 40º C outside temperature) two of them crashed unexpectedly into the ground for no apparent reason. I always thought they couldn't manage their overheated engines. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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