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Author Topic: P-39Q-30  (Read 25385 times)

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Orge Schwab

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2020, 10:43:53 AM »

Thinking about it more, 'Kuban Staircase' might be appropriate as it describes the tiered and staggered formation pretty well. As you say, it's easy enough to change in the info file and second briefing. Many thanks for your work on this incidentally, this campaign has some of the longest, most detailed briefings I've ever seen in IL2 - it's like reading a book. ;)
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SkyFan

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2020, 12:00:44 PM »

Dear colleagues, thank you for your interest to this campaign and especially thanks to OLD_DAD for translation. Regarding Russian word "etazherka": se see image below - what does it really mean:

So, Soviet Cobra formation was similar: a pair or link of Cobras on different altitude like as on differend shelfs.
May be it will help to find correct English word. May be "whatnot"? I'm not sure.
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Orge Schwab

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2020, 02:23:21 PM »

Aha! 'Etazherka' is obviously a russification of the French 'étagère', a well-known piece of antique furniture used in the 19th century for displaying small ornamental objects. Yes, it is similar to the English 'whatnot' and both resemble the picture you posted, but in England and France they were not typically used for storing or displaying books - though judging by the picture, the Russian version certainly could be. So calling the new aerial formation a 'bookcase' seems to be a metaphor that would naturally occur to Pokryshkin but not necessarily to non-Russian speakers. A literal translation would indeed be 'Kuban Bookcase' or 'Kuban Bookshelf' (well done Old Dad) but 'Kuban Whatnot' is definitely out, believe me (it sounds laughable!) :-| i see now why English authors have resorted to using colloquial translations of the concept (e.g. 'stairs') in order to convey the idea of staggered tiers. Some things just get lost in translation ;D
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OLD_DAD

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2020, 03:52:32 PM »

.... And so to the missions. Good flying be with you. If you have to swoop in 'the falcon" and soar back up to the bookcase /top of the stairs.. Be ready for big G blackouts. Put some rolls in to counter the G force. Maybe that will help because there's lots of that in this. They were tough SOB' s for sure to take that sort of physical punishment.
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Toobone

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2020, 06:45:38 AM »

most detailed briefings I've ever seen in IL2 - it's like reading a book.
SkyFan jast copying text from Pokryshkin's memoirs to briefs, because this book was not reprinted after 1986. Thank to the briefs any fan of aviation has the opportunity to learn about historical realities, even if they are embellished with political censorship of the USSR.

By the way, D.O.S.A.A.F. in EN can be translated as Volunteer Society for Assistance to the Army, Aviation & Fleet. Before WW2 its named OsoAviaKhim (OcoaBuaxuM in RU).
From 1972 till 1981 Pokryshkin A.I. were the current chairman of the D.O.S.A.A.F.

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Toobone

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2020, 07:11:04 AM »

Does anyone know definitively what the true translation is? It surely can't be 'Kuban Squirrel', as one of the suggestions (Kuban Bellochka) in this thread would have it!

In fact, Bellochka is the word game too: at first, aircraft manufacturer company name Bell.
Than women's name which is often used among the natives of the North Caucasus and Transcaucasia - Bela.
As we know, in IT word bella mean beautiful. So, in this case we have got third meaning of the word: beauty or pritty.
In fourth value - as squirrel - understanding the ability of squirrels to gnaw nuts. DE aces were really hard "nuts" with BF109 & FW190. But Bellochka skillfully helped "to gnaw" them to death.
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Orge Schwab

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2020, 11:30:56 AM »

Who amongst us would want his nuts gnawed by a squirrel? :-[

Seriously, I think the Russian word 'etazherka' stems from the French 'étagère' (Russian, of course, includes many French terms), which simply means 'shelf' or 'rack of shelves'. It's a pretty good description for the formation in any language. We all know that a bookcase consists of a number of shelves, so Pokryshkin was simply using the shape of an everyday object to convey a new idea. "Let's fly like a bookcase" still sounds a bit odd in English, even when you know what it means, but for all I know 'finger four' has some strange meaning in Russian. :-|
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Toobone

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2020, 05:02:23 AM »

Quote
Who amongst us would want his nuts gnawed by a squirrel?

O-o..still nuts..as usual big guys have got a balls :-[

Seriously, I think the Russian word 'etazherka' stems from the French 'étagère' (Russian, of course, includes many French terms)
Absolutely :)
'rack of shelves'. It's a pretty good description for the formation in any language.
Thats right ]cheers[.


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Toobone

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2020, 05:23:13 AM »

Of course, anyone is free to substitute one for the other in the text.
OK, please, look at this vers. Some sentenсe after Google bloody translating was incorrect, am fixed:
https://mega.dp.ua/YNfmv
Required a minute for creating link, just wait.
PS: Pokryshkin used in his memoirs nikname Cobra for P-39, not Bellochka.



 
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OLD_DAD

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2020, 02:50:32 PM »

Well OK.. Just 1 problem I can't translate your Mega page. I would like to see your ammendments.
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OLD_DAD

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Re: P-39Q-30
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2020, 11:25:40 PM »

But.. I have now. Ammendments are good. Better explanation and descriptions.
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