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Author Topic: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10  (Read 17313 times)

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Dreamk

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2016, 06:35:40 AM »

One of the interesting point about the SVAs is the mess that has been created by the un-coordonated initiatives of various Italian museum and groups of enthusiasts to rebuild some of these machines, without taking care to gather the adequate background information - while this information is readily available through the historical department of the Italian Army (including the units reports about preparing the planes for the raid on Vienna and the raid on Innsbruck, that gave a lot of precious information) and through the Caproni archives (Caproni became in the 1930s the "heir" of Ansaldo). It's quite notable that only the SVA machines rebuilt partiall or completely by the Caproni Fundation have respected the original disposition of the instruments panels, without trying to "complete" or improvise.
Why is this important? because in fact we are speaking of a family of planes that included various versions used simultaneously inside the same units, the specific version selected by the pilots in function of the kind of mission planned. They all looked externally similar, at the exception of some details, but their instruments panel was drastically different:
The versions used operationally by the units were:
SVA3 ('SVA Ridotto'): Interceptor version. Powered by a SPA 6A engine. Featured one upper-wing mounted Fiat machine-gun.  Smaller wing chord than the reconnaissance version (meaning narrower wings but as we speak of less than overall square meters of wing surface,  its' of now matter in the sim as it represents only a few centimeters less width for each wings)

SVA4: Reconnaissance version. Featuring one Vickers Machine gun on the left side and two photo-cameras.
Here the panel include only one vertical narrow slit hole on its left half for the handle used to unjam the gun. (see Sarti's plane's cockpit at the bottom of this post)

SVA.5: Reco-Bombing version. Two side mounted frontal Vickers Machine guns and equipped with bomb racks under the fuselage. Some versions were tested with early radio equipment.
Here the panel includes two symetric vertical narrow slit holes one, on left one on right, for the handles used to unjam the guns (look at the photo of the cockpit of Arrigoni's SVA at the bottom of this post).
Some pilots added sometimes a Fiat machine gun over the wing.
4 x162mm bombs could be either carried in an inner compartment behind the wider pattern of fuel reservoir positioned behind the engine, held in place by an arrangements of logs. Or they could be carried on inner compartment on each side of the narrow version of the fuel reservoir (replacing then the wider pattern reservoir).
Some machine used instead three 162 mm bomb racks on each side, an installation typical in fact of the SVA7.

SVA.6: Purely reconnaissance version of the SVA.5. One wing-mounted Fiat machine gun. Equipped with two cameras.
On the center of the instrument panel there is a square 'hole" for 2 supplementary ammo boxes for reloading this gun. They are retained by a vertical fabric strap that 'closes the hole". No "unjamming handle" of course here.

SVA.7: Recon/bomber of the SVA.6. Racks for 6 bombs on the fuselage.  - remember only one wing mounted Fiat gun here.

SVA.9: Two-Seat trainer of the SVA.5. One of them was modified in order to perform the flight over Vienna with the cockpit of the pilot and the observer reverted.

SVA.10: Two-seat Armed Reconnaissance version.


SVA-4 Sarti as a pilot - not that the handle shape is different from then one on the SVA6 and 7 and the center emplacement for supplementary ammo boxes is absent


SVA-5 Arrigoni as pilot:


SVA-6/7 cockpit


SVA-9 (the first one is the shiftmake SVA-9 used by d'Annunzio, in fact a hastly modified SVA-5 that served as an inspiration for the SVA-9 series)



SVA-10


And here the original drawing of the bombs installation of the SVA-5 - straight from the frontline


However these distinctions were not clear always cut - the proof is the presence of absence of the Chretien tubesight depending of the wish of the pilot, even on non official "fighter" versions.. "in case off". As a matter of fact, official decision of the Italian authorities fell quite soon not to use the SVAs as fighters.

Now concerning instruments on the pilot panel: Tachymeter (the upper large center gauge), quite often an Altimeter (the smaller, lower center one), Fuel gauge, Oil gauge (each side of the panel - these are in fact manometers indicating by measuring the pressure the quantity of fuel/oil remaining, similar to those used on Italian trucks of the period) As usual with Italian ww1 aircraft (and even after that...), in general no speed indicator (a Pensuti pressure-plaque relative speed indicator was mounted on one on the cabin mast, similarly to the French Eteve and based upon the same principle). Compass - not very frequent, Italian pilots loving to navigate by the map, looking at the ground under them, although their authorities tried very hard to convince them of the utility of the compass, thence a map roller was frequent (see the one in front of Natale Palli, the pilot of d'Annunzio's plane) . Magneto switch and crank (generally Bosch type). A panel mounted clock is possible on the SVA10 panel.

An example of the mess in Italian museum, I was referring to at the beginning of this post: A SVA-9 painted with the lettering "SVA-10 and a SVA-10 painted with the lettering "SVA-9"


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Dreamk

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2016, 07:04:42 AM »

For those who read italian - a report of the commanding officer of the XVI gruppo concerning the use of teh various SVA according to missions panned:
Per le ricognizioni fotografiche e da preferire  l'apparecchio SVA ad ali strette, più veloce di qualche chilometro di quello ad ali larghe.  Per il bombardamento è preferibile lapparecchio ad ali larghe che ha maggiore capacità. Negli apparecchi' attuali il serbatoio si trova  tra  pilota  e  motore, occupando  in  larghezza  tutta  la  fusoliera in profondità  due  terzi circa  dello spazio disponibile,  in altezza  meta circa dello spazio  disponibile.  in  tale condizione si possono collocare tra serbatoio e  pilota  2   macchine   fotografiche  o  2 bombe  da  162  disposte  verticalmente. Per gli  apparecchi  da  impiegarsi  come bombardamento sarebbe forse preferibile un serbatoio più alto che lasciasse libero ai lati il posto per almeno 4 bombe da  162 disposte verticalmente.  In ambe due i casi non  sono  necessarie  le 2 Vickers  tiranti tra verso l elica,  si puo quindi adottare  l'armamento  con  la  FIAT  al sopra  dellala  superiore.  Occorre  per  i motori  SPA  usare  precauzione.  ll  Tenente Palli compilerà un promemoria da distribuire alle sqiiadriglie. Saranno fatti esperimenti comparabili di salita dallo stesso pilota,  nella stessa  giornata,  con gli stessi carichi sullo stesso apparecchio dei carburatori Zenith e Zeroldi (?).  Tali prove saranno  utili anche  nei riguardi dei nuovi apparecchi che presenterano.
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Spider16

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2016, 01:06:46 PM »

Congratulations DreamK, immersion achieved in the explanations of the various types and characteristics of the versions of the models Ansaldo. I was really impressed with your research.

Cheers

Carlos
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9ball

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2016, 01:16:24 PM »


I've installed this beautiful bird in my CUP DOF up to date to Part 12B.
Very nicely done indeed, and thank you very much Gio.

However, there was something about her that was bugging me and it took a while to see what it was.
The prop is rotating counter clockwise in all three versions.
I finally noticed it while on the ground and starting her up, the blade went left instead of right.
Also, the wheels are rolling backwards on the takeoff run.
I no longer have DBW 1916 on my rig, so I'm unable to test her their.
Since this is a European plane, the prop may well rotate counter clockwise as normal, but the
wheel rotation is definately abnormal.

Below is a DOF tested fix to the heir to be applied to all three versions.
I searched in Tech Help and found a great tutorial: reverse the pitch of a propeller on a plane, by: just champi
All credit goes to him, I just followed his instructions.
I only did the bare minimum to make it work.
I'm sure improvements can be made, but this seems to work fine for my DOF install, use at your own risk.

*****Ansaldo Prop and Wheel rotation fix*****

Backup your original heirs.
Paste this over existing code in the heir's for all three versions.


[Prop1_D0]
Mesh Prop1_D0
Parent Engine1_D0
Separable
Attaching -1 0 0   0 -1 0   0 0 1  0.0654 -0.7734 -0.3949
//Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.0654 -0.7734 -0.3949 //Prop counterclock
[Prop1_D1]
Mesh Prop1_D1
Parent Prop1_D0
Hidden
Separable
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 -0.05 0
[PropRot1_D0]
Mesh PropRot1_D0
Parent Prop1_D0
Hidden
Attaching 1 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 1 -0.00179 -0.02426 0.00324
[SVApropM]
Mesh SVApropM
Parent Prop1_D0
Separable
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0

[GearL2_D0]
Mesh GearL2_D0
Parent winglin_D0
Separable
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1  0.477 -1.849 -0.7108
CollisionObject GearL2_D0
[GearL1_D0]
Mesh GearL1_D0
Parent GearL2_D0
Separable
Attaching 0 -1 0   1 0 0   0 0 1 0.315 -0.0016 -0.0062
//Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 0.315 -0.0016 -0.0062 //Wheel backwords
[GearR2_D0]
Mesh GearR2_D0
Parent wingrin_D0
Separable
Attaching 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1  -0.4797 -1.845 -0.7108
CollisionObject GearR2_D0
[GearR1_D0]
Mesh GearR1_D0
Parent GearR2_D0
Separable
Attaching 0 -1 0   1 0 0   0 0 1 -0.315 -0.0016 -0.0062
//Attaching 0 1 0 -1 0 0 0 0 1 -0.315 -0.0016 -0.0062 //Wheel backwords


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stalker

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2016, 11:21:22 PM »

Alexei Bezugolny indicates two variants of the St Nino cross crosses were used : one (the most frequent) was Black with a thin Red outline on a white circle, the other had colours inverted: Dark Red St Nino cross with a thin Black outline on a white circle (the colors of the Georgian flag of the period).
....




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Dreamk

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2016, 12:54:28 AM »

Great, Stalker! the last one is specially gorgeous!
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Alfie Noakes

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2016, 01:00:30 AM »

+1
Excellent work !

Cheers

Alfie
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stalker

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2016, 01:24:26 AM »

Great, Stalker! the last one is specially gorgeous!
pick here
http://forum.aviaskins.com/showpost.php?p=150164&postcount=2
all skin templates converted
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Fresco23

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2016, 06:52:51 PM »

Beautiful additions! Glad these are finally available, and I can't wait to take them up on my next free day. (Sunday)  ;D

Great work to all involved, and beautiful skins by Stalker!
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max_thehitman

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2016, 10:58:04 AM »

This photo posted by Stalker a few days ago intrigues me.... notice closely the real vertical stabilizer on that tail.
It has a missing bottom part. I have noticed the same thing on many other airplanes.




I noticed that on some of these aircraft it has a missing lower part while on other airplane versions it is a complete tail.

Now a question....
Which Ansaldo SVA airplane versions was this most seen on ? - Ansaldo S.V.A -5 -or- Ansaldo S.V.A-10 (or any other?)
Perhaps this was only seen on some very early production versions of the airplane?
I do not know.

I am going to do some testing using a simple Alpha-channel on the airplane main skin-files to see if I can
recreate the same visual look. and remove part of the bottom tail.


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stalker

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Re: Ansaldo S.V.A -5 / -10
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2016, 07:22:59 PM »

This photo posted by Stalker a few days ago intrigues me.... notice closely the real vertical stabilizer on that tail.
It has a missing bottom part. I have noticed the same thing on many other airplanes.




I noticed that on some of these aircraft it has a missing lower part while on other airplane versions it is a complete tail.

Now a question....
Which Ansaldo SVA airplane versions was this most seen on ? - Ansaldo S.V.A -5 -or- Ansaldo S.V.A-10 (or any other?)
Perhaps this was only seen on some very early production versions of the airplane?
I do not know.

I am going to do some testing using a simple Alpha-channel on the airplane main skin-files to see if I can
recreate the same visual look. and remove part of the bottom tail.

Ansaldo A1 is Balila.
http://forum.aviaskins.com/showpost.php?p=150179&postcount=3

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