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Author Topic: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed  (Read 18659 times)

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Mick

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2016, 04:55:23 AM »

... may be the issue with the 4.09 FM has to do with the number of carburetors (hint given by Epervier) ...  ;)

Looks like it shouldn't be 4 ...  ;)
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2016, 05:17:04 AM »

No, the issue with the FM is a much more basic one.
As much as there was no dedicated IIc flight model prior to IL-2 4.11, the engine reference in the 4.11+ flight model isn't present in pre-4.11 buttons either.
That's all.

But the FM issue has already been sorted out, as well as the issue with different weights for different game versions.

Now the next question arises:
Would the Maltese Hurri IIc's have Vokes filters or not?

I haven't found any IIc pictures from the Siege of Malta yet (at least nothing that could reliably be referred to that battle) and for the IIb's they seemed to have used what they could get hold of, looks like the IIb's existed both with and without Vokes filters.
What do you think?
Should this mod have the Vokes filter or not?

Best regards - Mike
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Mick

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2016, 05:38:26 AM »

... been browsing the web, ad nauseam, trying to find a Malta HurriIIc pic, but to no avail, so if I were you I'd chose the easiest solution ...  ;)
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2016, 05:57:48 AM »

This is what I have found so far:

Picture showing a Hurricane IIc Trop with Vokes Filter, Caption is "A cannon-armed Hawker Hurricane IIC based on Malta revving up before taking off to tackle an incoming Axis raid. This picture shows the air intake under the nose very clearly.":
http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pictures_hurricaneIIC_Malta.html


Picture showing a Hurricane IIc Trop with Vokes Filter, Caption is "One of the Hurricane Mk IICs which arrived on June 27, 1941, in Operation Railway I seen at Ta' Qali soon after it landed, (...):
http://ipmsmalta.forumotion.net/t1475-malta-s-hurricane-mk-iic-looking-for-photo-paint-scheme#22029


No other real pictures of Malta related IICs so far, but lots of drawings and paintschemes around.
The funny thing is that while all real pictures seem to show only IICs with Vokes filter, it looks like all drawings and paintings show them without.

Both versions are as easy as each other, the question is which one is historically correct.
One could argue that since the Hurris for Malta were initially meant to be for North Africa, they will likely have been equipped with Vokes Filters.
On the other hand, if maintenance removes cannons to save weight, wouldn't it make sense to remove the Vokes Filter too?
And is this feasible at all?
Was the Vokes Filter detachable or would they have had to replace the whole cowling?

Best regards - Mike
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Mick

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2016, 07:17:56 AM »

... yep, I found those too, but also pics showing Hurris (not IIc though) being ferried to Malta, with  Vokes fllter ...

https://scarfandgoggles.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/b740a277e76bf0648af16ad027b07ede.jpg

... and a restored malta Hurri, still not a IIc, with no Vokes filter ...

https://scarfandgoggles.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/malta-aviation-museum.jpg

https://scarfandgoggles.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/spitfirehurricane.jpg

Go figure ...!  :P

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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2016, 07:40:39 AM »

Okay, that makes for a valid assumption.
Since all real contemporary pictures of that time showing IICs allegedly addressed to Malta show them with Vokes filters, and most pictures of other Mk IIs of that time allegedly addressed to Malta show them with Vokes filters too, and only drawings, paintings and pictures of the present show them without Vokes filters, it's safe to say that there's a high probability that the Vokes Filter is historically correct, if only for a certain number of IICs at Malta.

Which takes us to the next step:
The Vokes Filter we have is basically okay, but attached to the planes through hier.him stretching in a very bad way.
Unfortunately it's not just a single axis being stretched, so I will have to do some calculations to find the real tilt angle and axis stretch factors required so I can apply them to the mesh instead of doing this in hier.him, because the latter creates massive glitches ingame.

Best regards - Mike
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Mick

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2016, 07:43:16 AM »

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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2016, 07:57:16 AM »

Interesting. One thread suggests that he Aboukir Filter was only installed on Spits , this thread :
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3496332/all/Hurricane_IIc_s_213_Squadron_E.html
(Post 3496605)
suggests that HurriIICs were also fitted with it. Any definitive info would be useful.

Kopfdorfer

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SAS~Malone

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2016, 11:23:50 AM »

i say we stick with the Vokes filter, as pictures don't lie. not to mention that it's cool, darnit!  8)

also, i'd dearly love to see the filter modeled better/properly as Mike mentions, but of course he knows more about 3d than i do - just for the record, lol
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rkalhorn109

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2016, 12:07:48 PM »

Thank you, I love this new plane!  Installed and flew her in 4.10 and 4.12.  Looking forward to the 4.09 fix!
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Whiskey_Sierra_972

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2016, 12:20:25 AM »

Thanks Mike for your reply!

I'll wait for the new update....
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Hurricane Mk.IIc Malta Field Mod: 2 Cannons removed
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2016, 03:55:25 AM »

New Version 1.02 available in first post.
Changes:
Code: [Select]
- Flickering Flaps fixed
- Flight Model for IL-2 4.09 + 4.10 added, the mod dynamically assigns flight models according to game version at starting time now
- Vokes Filter added
- New Wheels by PA/Jeronimo added

Concerning the weight reduction, regardless whether you have a game based on 4.09 or 4.10 (where the Hurricane IIC uses the same flight model like the Hurricane IIB and has much lower empty weight than on later game versions), or anything based on 4.11+, the Malta Hurricane Field Mod will automatically grab a flight model based on the matching base game version with it's weight reduced by 140kg accordingly (50kg per cannon plus 20kg per bomb rack, each with accessories).
Furthermore since only 2 cannons get loaded with shells, you save the weight of the other 182 shells.

Best regards - Mike
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