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Author Topic: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops  (Read 4157 times)

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Mick

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2021, 04:13:50 AM »

... you're totally right, Tobias, and Marseille also flew WeiƟ Drei in Libya 1941 ...  ;)

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG27-I-MTO/pages/Messerschmitt-Bf-109E4Trop-1.JG27-White-3-Hans-Joachim-Marseille-Libya-1941-0A.html

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Knochenlutscher

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2021, 09:39:33 AM »

That could be Mick, some source that was later edited by JG27 Veterans gave a few
Info on other Kites he flew. My Memory faded at that part, I remember 3 up to four possiillities acredited to Jochen,
not sure really, it's long ago.

But, this profile has logic Errors, the most eyepoking is the late style white wing Tips undersides.
That is a later F-4 feature, I haven't seen on E-7/Trop of JG27 before. This is a myth as well as the
White Rudder on Tropical Storchs.

The White 3 we have here in the Pack is 100% the "prominent PK White 3".
Which was depicted in air, b/w and colour, at readiness and later pranged.
Black with white quarter Prop, bold White 3, 3 prominent blotches on leftside near Balken.
I remember that White 3, as I sat 2 days in recreating the blotches, at parts it was not 100% accurate.
I will try to make it more accurate.

This Profile has different neat Details, but a very close relation. There's a chance this is the white 3 of Jochen.

It's incredible what came up in the last 30 Years as of unknown Pictures, not related to a specific Unit,
but in General. 60s and 70s Literature, which was long regarded fool proof, came to fall at many
different details.



Look at that, another White 12, now to foolproof the Experts who try to paint the Spinner in Staffel colour,
why the heck does it have Yellow Quarter spinner for another Staffel? That's reallity, all mixed up.
I found if you expect least Standard, rather than trying to find, it's the best.

To be honest, these Emils and Hurricanes, their Counterparts aren't as standard as some Experts claim.
They look mashed up, short of supplies, applied with what was at hands, on top lots of non standard stuff.

And to be honest these Emils i did around the time of my Me262 Skins re-rework.
Some brush Settings I used, I can't recover, I simply forgot how I did it.
That is due to a 3 Years break from skinning I had.
One of the Settings resembles a spraylike pattern that I could adjust at width and length,
like a spraycan.
Next month I'll buy myself my first Graphic Pen tablet, and start experimenting again.
I hope I recover those settings.
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Wiseman: Did you speak the exact words? Ash: Look, maybe I didn't say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah.

Knochenlutscher

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2021, 12:01:03 PM »

Found this in my Research



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Wiseman: Did you speak the exact words? Ash: Look, maybe I didn't say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah.

bigans

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2021, 05:15:48 AM »

Honestly I never believe in some paintings on books/internet sites, I prefer a book or a picture, that could be an historical font better than some paintings.
Do you know the exact day since the Yellow nose was imposed by Luftwaffe in Libia and MTO, in order to avoid friendly fire between Germans and Italians?
I found the typed order 1049 for Regia Aeronautica since 22/06/1941 and the yellow band should be at least 60 cm, including the propeller cover, if present.
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Mick

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2021, 06:00:24 AM »

But, this profile has logic Errors, the most eyepoking is the late style white wing Tips undersides.
That is a later F-4 feature, I haven't seen on E-7/Trop of JG27 before. This is a myth as well as the
White Rudder on Tropical Storchs.

... not sure this is a myth, Tobias ...  ;)



Source:

https://www.pinterest.fr/pin/168814686006274820/
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bigans

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2021, 02:29:04 PM »

 ;)

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bigans

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2021, 05:47:41 PM »

...




there was a second Yellow 6, from British sources of a crashed E-7, but the crash state and overall paint doesn't match this Yellow 6, which was part of a german Salvage operation. It's overall shape is nearly identical to White 6 no4. It is a two-tone E-7, later used up.
This british source was claimed to be Hajos 6, just until the real pictures popped up.

...

In my opinion this pics is Red 6 (not yellow or white) that should be 2 staffeln I gruppe JG 27. If I don't remember bad, 1st staffeln Number BLACK, 2nd staffeln Number RED, 3rd staffeln YELLOW.
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bigans

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2021, 04:02:15 PM »

Well, reading at page 35 of "German Fighter Ace Hans Joachim Marseille The Life History of Star of Africa, by Franz Kurowski tnanslated by Don Cox" I read that Marseille flew Yellow 13 when he arrived in Libia, but he was compelled to a emergency landing, because it was out of fuel; the plane was heavy damaged. He reached Ain el Gazala, by italian truck and then General Opel car. Here his Staffeln Kapitan Oblt Homuth assigned him Yellow 14 (page 48), it was 23rd April 1941, that day Marseille flew 3 mission, 1 kill and 1 emergency landing because he was fired by Sous-Lieutenant Denis. Find the book here https://issuu.com/vedrangrubeic/docs/59932406-hans-joachim-marseille
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2021, 04:27:43 PM »

Okay,thats a find cool. Nice find Mick.

Best wishes
Tobias


 
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Wiseman: Did you speak the exact words? Ash: Look, maybe I didn't say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah.

Knochenlutscher

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2021, 01:37:17 PM »



If you're still unsure and renitent, though I'm eager to help:

These are well known Kites and Photographed.

Of course in France and during BOB they had 2nd Staffel colour
in Red with white Outline. But the change to black was nothing unusual in LW.




As the author of this Thread I think we overdue with
I think", "I know", "I read", Bla-Bla-Bla

My Skinpack, my colours, my decisions, don't like that fact, not my problem....
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Wiseman: Did you speak the exact words? Ash: Look, maybe I didn't say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah.

Knochenlutscher

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2021, 07:37:08 PM »

Update v.4 2021:
corrections: Black 4
new historical Skins: White 4, Black 1, 11, Yellow 6 no.2 (former Stab Kite)

Updated Pack small corrections and Additions...

Bigans asked for resources, well after 11 Years ongoing work find in first Post a incomplete List of what I remember.

Happy Flying
Tobias
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Wiseman: Did you speak the exact words? Ash: Look, maybe I didn't say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah.

Mick

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Re: I./JG 27 'The Rest Of The Pack': Bf109 E-7/Trops
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2021, 01:06:30 AM »

Many THX for this fix and new additions, Tobias, and also for your constant dedication to historical accuracy ...!  8)
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