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Author Topic: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.  (Read 17447 times)

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HotelAlpha

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Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« on: November 09, 2012, 06:02:18 PM »


         OK-So I think that in Il-2 1946 we don't have really any weird Luft'46 planes, so I feel that it is my duty to make the request for one of the weirdest planes out there... I surely believe some very curious modder would be interested in this. 

Some info and drawings-From luft46.com (where you can find all of the German aviation projects) and the Wiki on the Lippisch.


The Lippisch P.13a was an experimental ramjet-powered delta wing interceptor aircraft designed in late 1944 by Dr. Alexander Lippisch for Nazi Germany. The aircraft never made it past the drawing board, but testing of wind-tunnel models in the DVL high-speed wind tunnel showed that the design had extraordinary stability into the Mach 2.6 range.



As conventional fuels were in extremely short supply by late 1944, Lippisch proposed that the P.13a be powered by coal. Initially, it was proposed that a wire-mesh basket holding coal be mounted behind a nose air intake, protruding slightly into the airflow and ignited by a gas burner. Following wind-tunnel testing of the ramjet and the coal basket, modifications were incorporated to provide more efficient combustion.
The coal was to take the form of small granules instead of irregular lumps, to produce a controlled and even burn, and the basket was altered to a mesh drum revolving on a vertical axis at 60 rpm. A jet of flame from tanks of bottled gas would fire into the basket once the P.13a had reached operating speed (above 320 km/h), whether by using a rocket to assist takeoff or by being towed.
The air passing through the ramjet would take the fumes from the burning coal towards the rear where they would mix under high pressure with clean air taken from a separate intake. The resulting mixture of gas would then be directed out through a rear nozzle to provide thrust. A burner and drum were built and tested successfully in Vienna by the design team before the end of the war.
It is not known what armament would have been carried by the P.13a; the MK 103 cannon would have been too heavy and large for such a small aircraft and it is possible that one or two large-calibre machineguns would have been used.
At the end of the war even the prototype DM-1 test glider had not been finished when it was captured by US forces. It was ordered to be completed by Lippisch's team and was then shipped to the USA where it was test-flown. Reportedly[by whom?] the results were very positive and lessons learned were incorporated into NASA's research aircraft of the 1950s and on.
Film footage exists which shows a gliding test of a scaled-down model of the P.13a. These tests began in May 1944 at Spitzerberg, near Vienna.[2]
After the war, Lippisch, working with American aircraft designer Convair, developed and tested the XF-92 based on his designs, leading to the eventual adoption of the F-102 Delta Dagger and its successor, the F-106 Delta Dart.


 P.13a
Specifications

General characteristics
Crew: one
Length: 6.70 m (22 ft 0 in)
Wingspan: 6.00 m (19 ft 9 in)
Height: 3.25 m (10 ft 8 in)
Wing area: 20.0 m² (215 ft²)
Loaded weight: 2,295 kg (5,060 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Kronach Lorin coal-burning ramjet
Performance
Maximum speed: 1,650 km/h (1,025 mph)
Range: 1,000 km (621 miles)
Wing loading: 115 kg/m² (24 lb/ft²   

If you didn't catch it, a real life test glider was made, called the DM-1.   

I don't think that modeling a flying nacho is hard if you know what to do. But, this mod (if made) could be a hit due to its strangeness and speed, etc!

Photos:



   

 

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hoddyman

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 09:29:45 PM »

I heard that the P13 wasn't actually test flown, but was, instead, mounted in a big wind tunnel, and tested there, and was gradually modified in order to get better high-speed flying characteristics, as it's shape, with the cockpit inside the vertical fin, wasn't as optimal for supersonic flight as it's designers thought. It ended up with a much sharper leading edge, and a bubble canopy with a seperate, triangular, vertical fin. Looked a little like something out of "Star Wars".
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HotelAlpha

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 08:19:41 AM »

Well, it is true that they tested the Lippisch in a wind tunnel. If you go on the luft46.com site on the plane you can find the pictures of the test glider and the wind tunnel models. On youtube, you can dust off the actual flight video of the glider. 

    Hope somebody fulfills this plane, I think its real cool.
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slipper

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 08:54:33 AM »

Somebody was working on it about a year ago I believe, not sure if it was slow.

There were some screenshots around I think at AAA, from these it looked pretty much complete, but I believe slow has stopped modding now.

Regards

Slipper
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razor1uk

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 09:05:35 AM »

Cool request :)
I gather the processed coal fuel became quite advanced, to the point where it was developed into a solid looking tubular brick(s); as the granules were heated, airated & bonded and shaped togther with some small section air tubes to aid coalfoam combustion.
Much work was conducted upon the bonding resins, the coal types/sources & mixtures, and also it eventually could provide quite alot of energy at a sustained burn rate.

There is a quite an indepth pdf about coalfoam it at the ww2.aircraft, somewhere in its engines/powerplants sub section of its technical section if my memory fails me - I believe its more connected with the Skoda Ramjet though.
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Uufflakke

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 09:39:06 AM »

I remember Slow worked on that plane a couple of years ago.
Can't find the WIP 3D MAX images anymore, this is the only thing 've found at AllAircraftSimulations.

http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17890&hilit=lippisch

Probably the other images disappeared since AllAircraftArcade went into cyberspace...
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max_thehitman

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 12:29:00 PM »



This airplane actually flew but only as a glider prototype. No engine mounted. Photos of
it still exist.
Lippisch and this airplane were taken to the USA after the war ended so
he could continue with his research and delta wing-designs for future American aircraft.

This is not the weirdest looking aircraft from the vast archive of the German Luft´46 airplanes.
There are more stranger machines designed and some even built.
We are very lucky to have one of the all time strangest aircraft in
our IL-2-1946 game--- The Heinkel "Lerche"  ;)

I do think this airplane was already being created by someone along time
ago, but the project was either canceled , or shelved, or forgotten.
Which is very sad . This aircraft would also make a great addition for a Game with a name "1946".
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nonaiansia

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 12:41:37 PM »


Lippisch + Ta-154 Mistel
two planes very expected
especially the bottom (imho)
hopefully someday we can fly with them in IL2
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kaxII

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 01:02:29 PM »

Aahh yes the TA-154, would be nice to see that and this in game!
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HotelAlpha

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 04:50:37 PM »

   So much for that project... If you read the forum link that was given it clearly has hints and posts that point to it being a joke.

   The Heinkel Lerche is a good plane in all, and we do have the actually built, flown, and crashed (the NatGeo documentary on it explains more) Horten/Gotha 229.

   In Il2, there is a limited amount of 1946 planes and for that reason I put this thread up.   

   Cheers to anybody who wants to work on this!   

             
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RealDarko

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 08:22:51 AM »



Is a interesting "plane", cause is always interesting to land over a skid, but not sure that thing would have even flown with that radical aerodinamic shape.
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Lippisch P-13A "Delta", "Nacho", whatever it looks like.
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 11:53:41 AM »

not sure that thing would have even flown with that radical aerodinamic shape.
Did the XF-92 fly?
There's your answer.

Best regards - Mike
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