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[CWMV]

Does anyone have good performance data for the various aircraft of the I16 series?

[Ass Eagle]

Heres a good read:

 http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/CAtxtChap5.pdf

[Uzin]

Hi, virpils,
did anybody of you flied in soviet fighters against AI german ones ?
I think this experience is lacking at many of you.
Hear also the opposite side, how ancient Romans used to say...

[NS~mati140]

Guys, I menage to shot down AI flown F-80s, sometimes (if I have luck) even F-86 with La-7, so don't tell me that it's AI which is OP. I mean, just fly it, it feels like you were handling an X-wing. It's too easy to fly, to stall it you need do it on purpose and still, you need to put a bit of work in it. Hopefully La-9 are already out - they are more whimsical and thus more rewarding to fly.

[GerritJ9]

Bear in mind that captured aircraft usually were not in pristine condition, often having suffered batle damage. The captors usually didn't have a supply of spare parts or manuals to properly maintain their booty, so testing would probably result in lower performance that obtainable if the aircraft were maintained by mechanics fully conversant with their equipment and backed up by a proper spare parts supply.

[Fresco23]

Oh dear, not this again...

The VVS aircraft are good, but not invincible. The ai can pretty much excel in everything so they don't count. Human players are a different story. A new player in an La-7 will not necessarily do well against an experience person flying a lesser aircraft, if you don't believe me try flying that -5 or -7 on a sever populated with experienced 109 drivers....not pretty . On servers that don't use historical plane sets, you'll often see everybody in either an La-7 or a Spit 25lb because if you fly them long enough, you will be pretty much untouchable because irl those two aircraft were very, very good.

I must agree! 

[Oscarito]

And don't forget the I-153!
I wonder how those steel tube framed/fabric covered biplanes can do what they do (ingame...)
Germans would have never gone beyond Bug and Neman rivers if the Soviets had such "Super Weapons" available.

[Paulo Hirth]

Oh dear, not this again...

The VVS aircraft are good, but not invincible. The ai can pretty much excel in everything so they don't count. Human players are a different story. A new player in an La-7 will not necessarily do well against an experience person flying a lesser aircraft, if you don't believe me try flying that -5 or -7 on a sever populated with experienced 109 drivers....not pretty . On servers that don't use historical plane sets, you'll often see everybody in either an La-7 or a Spit 25lb because if you fly them long enough, you will be pretty much untouchable because irl those two aircraft were very, very good.

As a previous poster noted, if you are flying against the VVS, you'll generally do better above 4000m or using BnZ flying, don't forget, the VVS kites break up at relatively low speed compared to, say, an FW190 or Jug.

That said, if the friendly ai was better at team tactics and cover, it would be a lot more fun to fly offline against the VVS if they are set at anything above average.

Good hunting!

  LOL, I mean about realistic FM, nothing about improve, make easy or hard, just real data, clear now?

[Vasya]

FM for La-5, which is close to the historical data of flight characteristics - engines, weight, area and polar according to the documents.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N9lAi1O8yP-YitcGnp9wVAdpfqrjVPxb/view?usp=sharing

[Vasya]

And don't forget the I-153!
I wonder how those steel tube framed/fabric covered biplanes can do what they do (ingame...)
Germans would have never gone beyond Bug and Neman rivers if the Soviets had such "Super Weapons" available.

Code: [Select]

[Aircraft]
  Type 1
  Crew 1
  Wingspan 10.0
  Length 6.175
  Seaplane 0
  Canard 0
  Jet 0
  JetHiV 0
[Mass]
  Empty 1347.5
  TakeOff 1858.7
  Oil 27.5
  Fuel 240.0
[Controls]
  CAileron 1
  CAileronTrim 0
  CElevator 1
  CElevatorTrim 0
  CRudder 1
  CRudderTrim 1
  CFlap 0
  CFlapPos 0
  CDiveBrake 0
  CInterceptor 0
  CEngine 1
  CVectoredThrust 0
  CUndercarriage 1
  CLockTailwheel 0
  CStabilizer 1
  CArrestorHook 0
  CWingFold 0
  CCockpitDoor 0
  CAileronThreshold 320.0
  CRudderThreshold 320.0
  CElevatorThreshold 360.0
  DefaultAileronTrim 0.012
  DefaultElevatorTrim 0.00
  DefaultRudderTrim 0.0688
[Squares]
  Wing 22.14
  Aileron 1.97
  Flap 0.01
  Stabilizer 1.55
  Elevator 1.23
  Keel 0.39
  Rudder 1.10
  Wing_In 3.545
  Wing_Mid 3.6
  Wing_Out 3.925
  AirbrakeCxS 0.0
[Arm]
  Aileron 2.8
  Flap 2.8
  Stabilizer 3.4
  Keel 3.5
  Elevator 3.9
  Rudder 4.1
  Wing_In 2.2
  Wing_Mid 1.7
  Wing_Out 4.0
  Wing_V 3.0
  GCenter 0.018
  GCenterZ 0.00
  GC_AOA_Shift 0.48      // САХ 29.6    / 31.0% = 0.55
  GC_Flaps_Shift 0.00
  GC_Gear_Shift -0.25
[Toughness]
  AroneL 40
  AroneR 40
  CF 300
  Engine1 100
  Engine2 150
  Engine3 150
  Engine4 150
  GearL2 200
  GearR2 200
  Keel1 50
  Keel2 50
  Nose 50
  Oil 50
  Rudder1 50
  Rudder2 50
  StabL 50
  StabR 50
  Tail1 100
  Tail2 100
  Turret1B 100
  Turret2B 100
  Turret3B 100
  Turret4B 100
  Turret5B 100
  Turret6B 100
  VatorL 40
  VatorR 40
  WingLIn 100
  WingLMid 75
  WingLOut 50
  WingRIn 100
  WingRMid 75
  WingROut 50
  Flap01 50
  Flap02 50
  Flap03 50
  Flap04 50
[Engine]
  Engine0Family M-25-62A-B:I-152_I-153
  Engine0SubModel M-62/I-153
[Gear]
  H 1.525
  Pitch 16.3
  SinkFactor 400.0
  SpringsStiffness 0.4
  TailStiffness 0.3
[Params]
  CriticalAOA 18.00       
  CriticalCy 01.20          // при AOACrit 17-18* по поляре продувки 
  CxCurvature 00.62         // при AOA 14* по поляре продувки 
  CxStraightness 00.125     // при AOA 0* по поляре продувки 
  CriticalAOAFlap 18.00
  CriticalCyFlap 01.20     
  SpinTailAlpha 16.00
  SpinCxLoss 0.07
  SpinCyLoss 0.03
  Vyfac 0.90
  Tfac 1.12
  Vmin 145.0
  Vmax 382.0
  VmaxAllowed 580.0
  VmaxH 444.0
  HofVmax 5000.0
  VminFLAPS 140.0
  VmaxFLAPS 351.0
  Vz_climb 15.0
  V_climb 205.0
  T_turn 12.0
  V_turn 190.0
  K_max 13.333
  Cyo_max 0.12
  G_class_coeff 20.0
  G_class 9.0
  ReferenceWeight 25.0
  Range 600.0
  CruiseSpeed 240.0
  SensYaw 0.40
  SensPitch 0.64
  SensRoll 0.45
[Polares]
  lineCyCoeff 0.0875             // (0.35х2):8*=0.0875
  AOAMinCx_Shift 0.4375          // 0.0875:0.20   
  Cy0_0 0.12                     // (0.06х2) при 1.32* установки стабилизатора по руководству часть 3
  AOACritH_0 17.5
  AOACritL_0 -16.0
  CyCritH_0 1.20                // (0.6х2) при AOACrit 17.5* по поляре продувки
  CyCritL_0 -0.64              // (-0.32х2) при AOACrit -16* по поляре продувки
  CxMin_0 0.028
  parabCxCoeff_0 5.0E-4
  Cy0_1 0.12
  AOACritH_1 17.5
  AOACritL_1 -16.0
  CyCritH_1 1.20
  CyCritL_1 -0.64
  CxMin_1 0.028
  parabCxCoeff_1 5.0E-4
  parabAngle 5.0
  Decline 0.006
  maxDistAng 32.0
  draw_graphs 0
  mc3 -17.769,-15.851,-6.8245,-29.496,25.441,-50.086,-56.84,-168.71
  mc4 61.433,61.433,28.659,500.08,61.433,605.1,550.09,1426.8
  mm 0.547,0.61,0.686,0.671,0.652,0.619,0.587,0.55
  mz 0.201,0.204,0.208,0.069,0.073,0.067,0.071,0.063
[SOUND]
  Engine i16
  Start p_start


[Baball]

According to the La-5 Technical Instruction Manual(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/la-5-texnicheskoe-opisanie-s-motorom-m-82-chast-1-1942-pdf.589228/) from 1942, the max TAS at sea level should be around 510 km/h with nominal engine power and ~535 hm/h with WEP.

I've spent some (way too much) time fixing stock FMs these past years, and here is what I came up with for the La-5 :

Code: [Select]

[Aircraft]
  Type 1
  Crew 1
  Wingspan 9.6
  Length 8.67  //8.71
  Seaplane 0
  Canard 0
  Jet 0
  JetHiV 0
[Mass]
  Empty 2690.0  //2730.0
  TakeOff 3326.0  //3392.0
  Oil 50.0
  Fuel 408.0  //345.0
[Controls]
  CAileron 1
  CAileronTrim 0
  CElevator 1
  CElevatorTrim 1
  CRudder 1
  CRudderTrim 1
  CFlap 1
  CFlapPos 3
  CDiveBrake 0
  CInterceptor 0
  CEngine 1
  CVectoredThrust 0
  CUndercarriage 1
  CLockTailwheel 1
  CStabilizer 0
  CArrestorHook 0
  CWingFold 0
  CCockpitDoor 0
  CAileronThreshold 400.0
  CRudderThreshold 400.0
  CElevatorThreshold 400.0
  DefaultAileronTrim 0.018  //0.014
  DefaultElevatorTrim -0.03
  DefaultRudderTrim 0.060
[Squares]
  Wing 16.32  //17.37
  Aileron 1.45  //1.72
  Flap 2.27  //2.53
  Stabilizer 1.70  //1.90
  Elevator 1.38  //1.20
  Keel 0.84  //0.70
  Rudder 0.90  //1.10
  Wing_In 3.06  //2.48
  Wing_Mid 2.85  //3.275
  Wing_Out 2.25  //2.93
  AirbrakeCxS 0.0
[Arm]
  Aileron 3.90  //3.84
  Flap 1.74  //1.70
  Stabilizer 4.75  // 5.10
  Keel 4.84  //5.40
  Elevator 5.08  //5.48
  Rudder 5.27  //5.72
  Wing_In 0.94  //1.0
  Wing_Mid 2.30  //2.28
  Wing_Out 3.98
  Wing_V 4.0  //1.5
  GCenter 0.00
  GCenterZ 0.00
  GC_AOA_Shift 0.60
  GC_Flaps_Shift 0.065  //0.15
  GC_Gear_Shift 0.10
[Toughness]
  AroneL 100
  AroneR 100
  CF 450
  Engine1 350
  Engine2 350
  Engine3 350
  Engine4 350
  GearL2 200
  GearR2 200
  Keel1 170
  Keel2 170
  Nose 170
  Oil 80
  Rudder1 100
  Rudder2 100
  StabL 170
  StabR 170
  Tail1 120
  Tail2 100
  Turret1B 100
  Turret2B 100
  Turret3B 100
  Turret4B 100
  Turret5B 100
  Turret6B 100
  VatorL 100
  VatorR 100
  WingLIn 100
  WingLMid 100
  WingLOut 100
  WingRIn 100
  WingRMid 100
  WingROut 100
  Flap01 100
  Flap02 100
  Flap03 100
  Flap04 100
[Engine]
  Engine0Family M-82
  Engine0SubModel M-82A
  Position0x 1.32
  Position0y 0.00
  Position0z 0.00
  PropPosition0x 2.25
  PropPosition0y 0.00
  PropPosition0z 0.00
  Vector0x 1.0
  Vector0y 0.0
  Vector0z 0.0
[Gear]
  H 1.593106
  Pitch 12.089
  SinkFactor 1000.0
  SpringsStiffness 0.8
[Params]
  CriticalAOA 20.00
  CriticalCy 01.80
  CxCurvature 00.80
  CxStraightness 00.20
  CriticalAOAFlap 22.00
  CriticalCyFlap 02.10
  SpinTailAlpha 17.00
  SpinCxLoss 0.04
  SpinCyLoss 0.02
  Vmin 165.0
  Vmax 550.0
  VmaxAllowed 700.0
  VmaxH 600.0
  HofVmax 6250.0
  VminFLAPS 145.0
  VmaxFLAPS 250.0
  Vz_climb 20.0
  V_climb 270.0
  T_turn 19.0
  V_turn 340.0
  K_max 15.0
  Cy0_max 0.15
  FlapsMult 1.0
  FlapsAngSh 12.0
  G_class_coeff 50.0
  G_class 12.0
  ReferenceWeight 90.0
  Range 900.0
  CruiseSpeed 400.0
  SensYaw 0.45
  SensPitch 0.67
  SensRoll 0.30
[Polares]
  lineCyCoeff 0.0865
  AOAMinCx_Shift 0.0
  Cy0_0 0.15
  AOACritH_0 20.0
  AOACritL_0 -17.0
  CyCritH_0 1.4802
  CyCritL_0 -0.85
  CxMin_0 0.025
  parabCxCoeff_0 4.5E-4
  Cy0_1 0.796  //0.7293736
  AOACritH_1 16.0
  AOACritL_1 -27.0
  CyCritH_1 1.8615224
  CyCritL_1 -0.8019059
  CxMin_1 0.093  //0.12333981
  parabCxCoeff_1 5.1E-4
  Decline 0.008
  parabAngle 6.0
  maxDistAng 40.0
  draw_graphs 0
  mc3 -17.551,-9.8474,-2.4053,19.44,-11.492,-2.7464,1.6612,3.9875
  mc4 37.807,28.078,69.235,26.054,89.944,41.96,21.532,14.707
  mm 0.678,0.738,0.772,0.771,0.748,0.694,0.641,0.584
  mz 0.281,0.26,0.127,0.086,0.129,0.147,0.151,0.115
[SOUND]
  Engine fw_190There are mistakes in the wing areas I made that I corrected later but this should be enough to obtain historical performances.

Code: [Select]

[M-82A]
  HorsePowers //1400
  BoostFactor 1.0
  WEPBoostFactor 1.21  //1.16
  Carburetor 1
  cAfterburner 1
  AfterburnerType 7  //*
  RPMMin 450  //350
  RPMNom 2400
  RPMMax 2400
  RPMMaxAllowed 2600  //2700
  Mass 850.0  //*
  PropMass 141.0  //*
  Reductor 0.72
  PropDiameter 3.1  //3.2
  PropAnglerType 2
  PropAnglerSpeed 0.13  //0.08
  PropAnglerMinParam 1400.0  //900.0
  PropAnglerMaxParam 2400.0
  PropAnglerAfterburnerParam 2400.0  //2450.0
  PropPhiMin 22.0
  PropPhiMax 52.0  //42.0
  PropAoA0 5.0
  CompressorPAt0 0.35  //
  CompressorPMax 1.52  //1.55
  CompressorAltitude0 2050.0  //2700.0
  CompressorMultiplier0 1.1  //1.0
  CompressorAltitude1 5300.0
  CompressorMultiplier1 0.95  //0.85
  //CompressorRPMP0 1500.0
  CompressorRPMCurvature 2.0
  CompressorRPMPMax 2400.1  //2450.0
  CompressorMaxATARPM 1.27  //1.30
  CompressorSpeedManifold 0.5
  CompressorRPM0 1400.0  //450
  CompressorATA0 0.5  //0.7
  DisP0x 2500
  DisP0y 0
  DisP1x 0
  DisP1y 56
  TESPEED 0.01
  TWATERMAXRPM 220
  TOILINMAXRPM 70
  TOILOUTMAXRPM 115
  MAXRPMTIME 120
  MINRPMTIME 999
  TWATERMAX 230
  TWATERMIN 60
  TOILMAX 125
  TOILMIN 40

[Vasya]

Motors according to the schedule from the book ASH-82.

Code: [Select]

[ASH-82A/LA-5]
  Autonomous 1
  Cylinders 14
  Carburetor 2
  Direction Right
  HorsePowers 1435.7        // 1400x1.0255(Эффективность 0.705) 
  BoostFactor 1.0
  WEPBoostFactor 1.1        // 1540.0Hp
  cAfterburner 1
  AfterburnerType 7
  PropMass 137.0
  RPMMin 350
  RPMNom 2400.0
  RPMMax 2400.0
  RPMMaxAllowed 2700.0
  Reductor 0.6875
  PropDiameter 3.1             // Винт ВИШ-105В(Эффективность 0.705)
  PropAnglerType 2   
  PropAnglerSpeed 0.10
  PropAnglerMinParam 1648.8
  PropAnglerMaxParam 2400.0
  PropAnglerAfterburnerParam 2420.0
  PropPhiMin 23.0
  PropPhiMax 52.0
  PropAoA0 11.0
  Voptimal 300.0
  cCompressor 1
  CompressorType 1
  CompressorSteps 2
  CompressorRPMCurvature 2.0 
  CompressorPAt0 0.5
  CompressorPMax 1.36
  CompressorAltitude0 2050.0
  CompressorMultiplier0 1.07
  CompressorBaseMultiplier0 1.085715
  CompressorAltitude1 5400.0
  CompressorMultiplier1 0.90       // 1260 л.с.
  CompressorBaseMultiplier1 0.95
  CompressorRPMP0 1600.0
  CompressorRPMPMax 2420.0
  CompressorMaxATARPM 1.29         // 950мм рт.ст.
  CompressorSpeedManifold 0.8
  CompressorRPM0 450
  CompressorATA0 0.70
  CompressorRPM1 1700
  CompressorATA1 1.08
  CompressorRPM2 2100
  CompressorATA2 1.15
  CompressorRPM3 2200
  CompressorATA3 1.22
  CompressorRPM4 2400
  CompressorATA4 1.29
  DisP0x 2400
  DisP0y 0
  DisP1x 0
  DisP1y 50
  TESPEED 0.021
  TWATERMAXRPM 215
  TOILINMAXRPM 75
  TOILOUTMAXRPM 85
  MAXRPMTIME 300
  MINRPMTIME 999
  TWATERMAX 240
  TWATERMIN 160
  TOILMAX 115
  TOILMIN 50
  FuelConsumptionP0 = 0.190F
  FuelConsumptionP05 = 0.280F
  FuelConsumptionP1 = 0.320F
  FuelConsumptionPMAX = 0.325F
[ASH-82F/LA-5F]
  Autonomous 1
  Cylinders 14
  Carburetor 2
  Direction Right
  HorsePowers 1435.7        // 1400x1.0255(Эффективность 0.705)   
  BoostFactor 1.0
  WEPBoostFactor 1.229
  cAfterburner 1
  AfterburnerType 7
  PropMass 137.0
  RPMMin 350
  RPMNom 2400.0
  RPMMax 2400.0
  RPMMaxAllowed 2700.0
  Reductor 0.6875
  PropDiameter 3.1             // Винт ВИШ-105В
  PropAnglerType 2
  PropAnglerSpeed 0.10
  PropAnglerMinParam 1648.8
  PropAnglerMaxParam 2400.0
  PropAnglerAfterburnerParam 2420.0
  PropPhiMin 23.0
  PropPhiMax 51.3
  PropAoA0 11.0
  Voptimal 300.0
  CompressorType 1
  CompressorSteps 2
  CompressorRPMCurvature 4.0
  CompressorPMax 1.55
  CompressorAltitude0 2050.0
  CompressorMultiplier0 1.07
  CompressorBaseMultiplier0 1.085715
  CompressorAltitude1 5400.0
  CompressorMultiplier1 0.90       // 1260 л.с.
  CompressorBaseMultiplier1 0.95
  CompressorRPMP0 1600.0
  CompressorRPMPMax 2420.0
  CompressorMaxATARPM 1.29         // 950мм рт.ст.
  CompressorSpeedManifold 0.8
  CompressorRPM0 450
  CompressorATA0 0.7
  CompressorRPM1 1700
  CompressorATA1 1.08
  CompressorRPM2 2100
  CompressorATA2 1.15
  CompressorRPM3 2200
  CompressorATA3 1.22
  CompressorRPM4 2400
  CompressorATA4 1.29
  DisP0x 2400
  DisP0y 0
  DisP1x 0
  DisP1y 50
  TESPEED 0.021
  TWATERMAXRPM 215
  TOILINMAXRPM 75
  TOILOUTMAXRPM 85
  MAXRPMTIME 600
  MINRPMTIME 999
  TWATERMAX 240
  TWATERMIN 160
  TOILMAX 115
  TOILMIN 50
  FuelConsumptionP0 = 0.190F
  FuelConsumptionP05 = 0.285F
  FuelConsumptionP1 = 0.325F
  FuelConsumptionPMAX = 0.340F
[ASH-82FN/LA-5FN]
  Autonomous 1
  Cylinders 14
  Carburetor 2
  Direction Right
  HorsePowers 1569.0      // 1530x1.0255(Эффективность 0.705)   
  BoostFactor 1.0
  WEPBoostFactor 1.2092
  cAfterburner 1
  AfterburnerType 7
  PropMass 137.0
  RPMMin 350
  RPMNom 2400.0
  RPMMax 2400.0
  RPMMaxAllowed 2700.0
  Reductor 0.6875
  PropDiameter 3.1                // Винт ВИШ-105В(Эффективность 0.705)
  PropAnglerType 2
  PropAnglerSpeed 0.10
  PropAnglerMinParam 1648.8
  PropAnglerMaxParam 2400.0
  PropAnglerAfterburnerParam 2500.0
  PropPhiMin 23.0
  PropPhiMax 51.3
  PropAoA0 11.0
  Voptimal 310.0
  CompressorType 1
  CompressorSteps 2
  CompressorRPMCurvature 4.0
  CompressorPMax 1.63
  CompressorAltitude0 1550.0 
  CompressorMultiplier0 1.06536
  CompressorBaseMultiplier0 1.06536
  CompressorAltitude1 4550.0 
  CompressorMultiplier1 0.9085       // 1390 л.с.
  CompressorBaseMultiplier1 0.9347   
  CompressorRPMP0 1600.0
  CompressorRPMPMax 2500.0
  CompressorMaxATARPM 1.3595
  CompressorSpeedManifold 0.8
  CompressorRPM0 450
  CompressorATA0 0.7
  CompressorRPM1 1700
  CompressorATA1 1.08
  CompressorRPM2 2100
  CompressorATA2 1.15
  CompressorRPM3 2200
  CompressorATA3 1.22
  CompressorRPM4 2400
  CompressorATA4 1.3595
  DisP0x 2400
  DisP0y 0
  DisP1x 0
  DisP1y 50
  TESPEED 0.015
  TWATERMAXRPM 215
  TOILINMAXRPM 75
  TOILOUTMAXRPM 85
  MAXRPMTIME 600
  MINRPMTIME 999
  TWATERMAX 250
  TWATERMIN 150
  TOILMAX 115
  TOILMIN 50
  FuelConsumptionP0 = 0.170F
  FuelConsumptionP05 = 0.230F
  FuelConsumptionP1 = 0.275F
  FuelConsumptionPMAX = 0.315F