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Author Topic: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)  (Read 33527 times)

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juanmalapuente

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 02:40:54 PM »

Doug, can you rename the thread as "Golden Age 1920/1930" or something similar so is more easily identified?

we of course left the thing on "lounge", we hope our long time dream could be transferred to Wip section one day :)

S! to all guys
Andrea

Done.

I limited the years from 1920 to 1935 to avoid overlapping the Spanish Civil War time period (1936 - 1939), wich is already up, and was in fact a bloody conflict, with almost nothing "romantic" in it...

Cheers

Sure SCW was a bloody conflict, but most of the many different aircraft participating came directly from this Golden period. I love this period for that pioneering and experimenting efervescence, that produced infinite interesting forms and variations.
We have already some, such as the Breguet XIX used for lots of record breakings and pioneering trips. We already have even a nice civil skin made by Archie for this period.
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,26228.12.html
Many of the planes made by Dreamk, were Golden Age aircraft, we only need more civil skins.
Also, many of the ones people are going to propose, will be useful for SCW too, just think about the Dornier Wall or the Lockheed electra.  ;D
I'm sure there are going to be more great additions useful for both periods soon.
Actually, a lot of experimental prototypes and contest racing aircraft went directly to SCW. There you have the famous Bellanca 28-70 Irish Swoop, the Sikorsky S-38, the Seversky SEV-3 and many others.
You also have already done the Junkers F-13, first metallic civil successful transport. It would be great to have it with the linnear engine, much more appropiate for the 20s, it could be done in seaplane version too.
For the fighters, beside Dreamk's ones, you have the P-26, for instance.
If someone wants to make an emblematic plane for this period, there you have the Spirit of Saint Louis. Ugly plane, no frontal vision, single prototype, but who wouldn't want to try it? ;)
I remember also a good bunch of ugly bombers from other funny thread that would fit great in the Golden Age, I would kill to have the chance to shoot some of those horrible monsters down. ;D ;D
If I have to vote, for a nice one, there you have the Leo 210:
Lioré et Olivier 213. One of the most succesful passenger transport of the period, flying Paris-London and many other European and Euro-African routes.
May be not very handsome, but I love her in that Rayon d'or costume.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lior%C3%A9_et_Olivier_LeO_21

It was also used in military version Leo-20 for paratroopers and training in L'Armée de l'air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lior%C3%A9_et_Olivier_LeO_20




And for something completely different: the Couzinet-70  Arc en Ciel. René Couzinet was one of those way beyond his time designers, but I can't think of a plane more typical of this period.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couzinet_70

There're also tons of pics and info about details and interiors in the Web.



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Rudi_Jaeger

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 03:00:53 PM »

I'm a bit busy at the moment to join any new ventures, but I can offer a couple of ideas that may be of use to any modelers interested in a 'Golden Age' project. Below are some hacks from a few years ago. Once folks started to mod the sim, I always felt they would be good candidates for a make-over:



^ Take the IAR-80, remove the armament and antenna, do some refinements to the tail, exhaust, canopy, and prop; Presto! Hughes H-1 Racer. I know, I make it sound easy, but I'm sure it's an awful amount of work. Although IIRC, someone was working on a model for one of these; not sure whatever became of it.


^ I didn't mention remodelling the under carriage, because sometimes a little brushwork can substitute for additional 3D. btw; check out those ugly wheels and struts.. we've came a long way since those days eh? (Thanks to our modders)

H8K as a Martin M-130/Boeing B-314 'Hybrid', PanAm Clipper:


^ Remove the outboard pontoons and add the 'floating wings' to the fuselage, add some support spars, remove the armament, and we get a closer match to the real M-130.


^ Do roughly the same thing (except for support spars), but replace the stock tail with the LaGG-3's for the central, and a Pe-3's for the outboards, and we get a reasonable look-alike for the Boeing B-314. Despite the tri-tail configuration, the B-314 is actually a better match to the H8K's fuselage, than the M-130 which is a bit slimmer.

With a few tweaks, these two models (IAR80 & H8K) might adapt well to a 'Golden Age' scenario.  The Clippers also went on to wartime service, thus doubling their usefullness for campaign/mission builders.

Anyway, food for thought.
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Col. King

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »

GREAT, Thank you Juanmalapuente and Rudi! Really good ideas. Now we do need a 3d modder willing to spend a bit of his precious time on them and the other projects that can come...

And true, some planes that were made for the SCW can for sure be used, too.

Actually, for the 1930 - 1935 period there are already quite a good number of aircraft disponible, most of them later tooking part in the Spanish Civil War.  But we do still lack planes for the 1920 to 1930 years, as we have only few for that decade.

Anyway, good suggestions! 

And, for skinning them all, we already do have the right man in the group ;) ... And I know his hands are already sweating with impatience to start...

Cheers!
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Col. King

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 05:53:54 PM »

Here, a little list of planes from the 1920 decade that imho would be nice to have for our Golden Age project: For all of them I can provide extensive data and pictures, like for the first one here, if needed...

Airco D.H.10 Amiens


The Airco DH.10 Amiens was a British twin-engined medium bomber designed and built towards the end of the First World War. It served briefly with the RAF postwar.

The DH.10 was designed by Geoffrey de Havilland to meet the requirements of Air Board Specification A.2.b for a single- or twin-engined day bomber. It was a development of the earlier Airco DH.3 bomber, which had flown in 1916, but had been rejected by the War Office because of a belief that strategic bombing would be ineffective and that twin engines were impracticable.

The first prototype flew on 4 March 1918, powered by two 230 hp (186 kW) Siddeley Puma engines mounted as pushers. When evaluated by the RAF, the performance of this prototype was well below expectation, reaching only 90 mph (145 km/h) at 15,000 ft (4,572 m) with the required bomb load. Owing to this poor performance, the DH.10 was redesigned with more powerful engines in a tractor installation.

The second prototype, known as the Amiens Mark II was powered by two 360 hp (268 kW) Rolls-Royce Eagle VIII engines and first flew in April 1918, showing greatly superior performance and proving to be faster than the DH.9A while carrying twice the bomb load. While shortages of the Eagle meant that the Amiens Mark II could not be put into production, it proved the design for the definitive aircraft, the Amiens Mark III, which was powered by the more readily available 395 hp (295 kW) Liberty 12 from America, as was the DH.9A. Following successful evaluation, large orders were placed, with a total of 1,291 ordered.
 [Read more]


First deliveries of DH.10s were to No. 104 Squadron RAF in November 1918, flying a single bombing mission on 10 November 1918 before the Armistice ended the First World War. Postwar, DH.10s equipped 120 Squadron, which used them to operate an air mail service to the British Army of Occupation on the Rhine. Amiens were also used by 97 Squadron (later re-numbered as 60 Squadron) which deployed to India. It provided support to the Army on the North-West Frontier, being used for bombing operations in the Third Anglo-Afghan war. DH.10s were also used by 216 Squadron in Egypt, where they provided an air mail service between Cairo and Bagdhad, starting on 23 June 1921. They were operated with distinction in Great Britain, Egypt and India until 1927.



Variants

Amiens I Prototype powered by two pusher Puma engines.
Amiens II Prototype powered by two tractor Rolls Royce Eagle engines.
Amiens III Main production variant, powered by Liberty 12 engines mounted midway between wings, 221 built.
Amiens IIIA Modified Mark III with engines directly attached to lower wings, 32 built.
Amiens IIIC Version powered by Rolls Royce Eagle engines in case of shortages of Liberty engines, 5 built.

Armstrong Whitworth Siskin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_Whitworth_Siskin

Avia BH-21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia_BH-21

Breguet Bre.14A.2 (WW1, but in production until 1926!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breguet_14

Bristol Type 22 F.2B (WW1, in service until 1932!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_F.2_Fighter

CAMS 53
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMS_53

Curtiss JN-4 'Jenny'
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/Jenny/Aero3.htm

Curtiss P-1 to P-6 Hawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-1_Hawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-6_Hawk

Dornier Do JIId Wal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_J

Gloster Gamecock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Gamecock

Gloster Grebe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Grebe

Hawker Horsley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Horsley

Hawker Tomtit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tomtit

Lioré et Olivier LeO 20
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lior%C3%A9_et_Olivier_LeO_20

Nieuport-Delage Ni-D 29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieuport-Delage_NiD_29

Supermarine Southampton Mk.I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Southampton

Vickers Virginia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Virginia

Schneider Trophy racers - all... (Will post a more detailed research in near future).

There are only few of the 1920 decade planes, (in fact they are much more, and I pretend, with your help, to add more of them, only for the sake of completness.)

Cheers




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max_thehitman

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 05:59:39 PM »

Rudi made a very great suggestion with his post. If you guys that paint skins just
spend some time looking at the 1920-era and 1930-era airplanes from
books/Websites/Pdf-Ebooks and then compare them to already flyable airplanes in
the IL-2 game (Look at the model - NOT THE SKINS).
Then if you have a very close candidate for a "skin-Hack" then all you have to do is
make/paint a new skin-template for that airplane model and it will look almost like the other
1920s or 1930s airplane.
The recent posts of those cool new MOD-biplanes already available can be made to look like other
airplanes.
So I suggest start looking for books on 1920s airplanes and 1930s classics. There are tons of PDF books
out there for free and many websites.
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Col. King

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 06:54:04 PM »

Max..
With all due respect, we are already looking in that direction, too. :)

Actually, we are going in not only one direction...
We do know what a hell of a work is making a totally new aircraft for IL-2, and we are not "asking" for new airplanes or mods. We are only stating that there are planes that are still missing, and IF someone wants to help, we'll be very happy. But we are absolutely not forcing anyone to do so. Modders works and do mods because they have passion, talent, and they like to do so. IF someone of them wants to make a plane of the Golden Age, and then share it with the rest of the Community, that will be great. The list I posted is only to eventually help such a talented and willing person in the choice.

And yes, of course you are absolutely right, there are already around some planes that with a good reskinning can "play the role" of other planes, as hacks. 

Thank you! :)
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max_thehitman

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 07:15:07 PM »



Ok good buddy, I will try to help out as much as I am possible at the moment. You have to forgive me for not jumping right in
with this 1920-1930s Era just yet. Because at the moment I have quite alot on my hands already. Alot of painting work on many other
airplanes and people that need me.
Things are moving so fast around here and other IL-2 mod-forums, with so many new aircraft and mods arriving, that some things
are being left behind a little. I am also trying my best to run at this race so we can all win ;D

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Col. King

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 07:27:01 PM »

Don't worry! And thank you for the good advices. That's the spirit! :D
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The_Jester

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 09:06:44 PM »

Armstrong Whitworth Siskin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_Whitworth_Siskin

Avia BH-21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia_BH-21

Breguet Bre.14A.2 (WW1, but in production until 1926!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breguet_14

Bristol Type 22 F.2B (WW1, in service until 1932!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_F.2_Fighter

CAMS 53
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMS_53

Curtiss JN-4 'Jenny'
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/Jenny/Aero3.htm

Curtiss P-1 to P-6 Hawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-1_Hawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-6_Hawk

Dornier Do JIId Wal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_J

Gloster Gamecock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Gamecock

Gloster Grebe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Grebe

Hawker Horsley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Horsley

Hawker Tomtit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tomtit

Lioré et Olivier LeO 20
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lior%C3%A9_et_Olivier_LeO_20

Nieuport-Delage Ni-D 29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieuport-Delage_NiD_29

Supermarine Southampton Mk.I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Southampton

Vickers Virginia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Virginia

Schneider Trophy racers - all... (Will post a more detailed research in near future).

There are only few of the 1920 decade planes, (in fact they are much more, and I pretend, with your help, to add more of them, only for the sake of completness.)

Cheers
[/quote]

Armstrong Whitworth:

Siskin III:
 50 produced plus 12 two seat trainers.
Armament: two .303 vickers machine guns.
Powerplant: 350 hp Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar III
Max Speed: 134 mph at 6,500 ft, 128mph at 15,000 ft
Time to 10,000ft: 8.5 minutes
Empy Weight: 1,830 lbs
Loaded Weight: 2,735 lbs
Span: 33 ft 1 in
Length: 22 ft 6 in
Height: 9 ft 9 in
Wing area, 296 sq ft

Siskin IIIA:
 A large number of design changes made here. I will list them here: Lengthened fuselage w/ raised aft decking, greate gap, less upper wing dihedral, redesigned vertical tail surfaces, no ventral fin, fuselage change from slab sides to round sides.

 Overall production of this model is 412 units with a further 47 dual control trainers.

Armament: two Vickers .303 machine guns.
Powerplant: 425 hp Jaguar IV OR supercharged Jaguar IVS
Max Speed: 156 mph at sea level, 142 mph at 15,000 ft
Time to 5,000 ft: 3.5 minutes, to 15,000, 10.5 minutes
Empty Weight: 2,061 lb
Loaded Weight: 3,012 lb
Span: 33 ft 2 in
Length: 25 ft 4 in
Height: 10 ft 2 in
Wing area: 293 sq ft

A note regarding the Siskin II and V. These were both prototype models.

Avia:

BH-21

Powerplant: Skoda-built HS 8Fb liquid cooled engine
Armament: two 7,7mm (.303) guns- Possibly Hispano Suiza? Further information is needed here.
Max Speed: 245 km/h
Range: 550 km
Time to 5000 m, 13 minutes
Empty weight: 720 kg
Loaded weight: 1084 kg
Span: 8,90 m
Length: 6,87 m
Height: 2,74 m
Wing area: 21,96 m^2

I will continue to expand the post at a later date.
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The_Jester

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2012, 09:50:54 PM »

A few I would like to add to the list:

Brandenburg W.33
Produced in Germany in 1918 and in Finland 1922-1926

Felixstowe F.5
Produced just after the great war in Britain. Was an improvement on the F.2a and F.3 models. Served until 1925.

Supermarine Southampton

Macchi M.41bis

Not one I actually would like to add, but certainly worth a look at for shits n' giggles: Nieuport-Delage 37

There is also a fiat model I couldn't find, but I remember it having an unequal span with the lower span being the longer of the two.

A note here: My knowledge of this specific period is more limited to water based aircraft, so for me finding fighters is going to be a little bit difficult since I have to sift through a caveat of experimental aircraft just to find one that was produced in significant numbers. I'm not really sure how to handle France though. The list of French prototypes is very long and it seems a lot of aircraft that had very low production numbers entered service during this period.
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A1_Phoenix

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2012, 02:37:22 AM »

guys, it's nice to see growing interest for this era :) thank you all!

i'll try to group all the infos received in few days, so maybe we can have "subsections" on airplanes, boats, skin hacks suggestions and so on :)

S!
Andrea
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Cracken

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Re: The "Golden Age" of Aviation (1920 - 1935)
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 03:49:53 AM »

DBW 1926? Even DBW 1906 would be nice:-) How about the "Flyer" of the Wright brothers to be put in the game? (If someone is to rmove this post of mine, please note this is NOT a request:D
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