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Author Topic: Rogožarski IK-3 FM  (Read 5806 times)

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Laufer

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Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« on: August 22, 2012, 11:44:17 AM »

Hello,

I want to ask modders about possible update of plane Rogožarski IK-3. Actually there is few funny things about it. IK-3 by all details I read and find in books and all over internet is better and faster than Hurricane Mk I and Me-109 E, Me-109 E is only faster in vertical climbing. When AI (computer) flies it, it's almost OK, but when player(human) flies it, there is no chance of shooting down Me-109. I made campaign with this plane and many people complain about this, same problem I have, could you please, improve its performance, to make it real ? Could you make some update in future?

In hope you will understand this problem, thanks in advance,
Regards, Laufer.
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Bombnick

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 02:37:19 PM »

I am much interested in performance of the real IK-3 too. I hope it wouldn't be too much of a trouble for you to bring forward at least some documents (test reports) and/or pilot reports from books you mentioned.

I am a bit skeptical about IK-3 performance being that superior to Emil - it had about 25 % less engine power with similar weigth at best. If it was indeed faster than Emil in a horizontal flight I'd be very surprised.
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Laufer

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 03:42:27 PM »

I didn't express myself good, IK-3 is superior in dogfights proved by pilots who fought in April war 1941 over Belgrade. Also with IK-3 it's hard to shoot down Bf-110, and Hurricane can shoot him in no time, what is ridiculous

Sources I have are in Serbo/Croatian, BUT here is wikipedia, speed of IK-3 is 526 km/h and Bf-109 E is 560 km/h which is not great differences so IK-3 can't get him, am I right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogo%C5%BEarski_IK-3

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/0013.html

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Dreamk

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 03:56:49 PM »

The problem is among other things in its emd, based upon the emd of the Morane 406, but the Hispano Suiza Y29 of the IK3 was a different engine, much more performant than the HS-Y31 of the Morane. 
The nomenclature 31 is due to a change in the French engines designation that happenned in 1936, and does not imply that the model is more advanced than the Y-29, a model designed for the foreign market with 910 Hp at take off and 920 Hp at 3 600 m, as copmpared with the 830Hp at take off and 860Hp at 3150m of the HS-Y31. The HS-Y49 that equipped the Arsenal VG-33 had identical performances to the HS-31, the only differences between them being modifications of the carburators/fuel admission system.
A most critical aspect is the propeller mounted on these planes - French official tests evidenced that performances varied greatly when these planes were equipped with different propellers.
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Laufer

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 04:08:39 PM »

Beside all, if you take historic fact that of 6 built IK-3, only 3 were lost in dogfights, I mean honestly it says a lot. Luftwaffe on 6th April, 1941. lost between 42 and 48 planes (source: "Plamen nad Beogradom" by lt.Colonel  Kostic) and book ('Naše nebo aprila 1941.' by ing. Petar Bosnic) and Yugoslav Air Force lost 8 planes.

But the problem isn't just with this plane, talking about game, you have same problem with F-86 vs. MiG-15...also with F-86 you can't beat MiG-15 what is also un-normal, am I right?

That is a problem which must be updated, for F-86 and IK-3, if it isn't updated till know, talking of F-86...
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Dreamk

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 04:19:29 PM »

you have same problem with F-86 vs. MiG-15...also with F-86 you can't beat MiG-15 what is also un-normal, am I right?
The Mig 15 was in fact superior to the F86, but the pilots quality made all the difference.
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Laufer

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 04:26:20 PM »

Mig-15 was superior in dogfights, fast turns etc. one word chasing but NOT faster than F-86. That's what I'm talking about.
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Radoye

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 04:51:47 PM »

IK-3 1st series was inferior to Emil in all aspects except turn performance which was indeed excellent. It was somewhat better matched with the Hurricane (about equal speed - i'm comparing it to the standard Hurricane Mk.IA not the hybrid Yugoslav produced machines - slightly better turn performance for IK but lacking in climb performance ceiling and range). In a turning combat the IK pilot can hold its own against both Hurricane and Emil but in real life situation no Emil pilot would decide to turn with the IK, he can use his superior speed, climb and dive to engage and disengage at will.

These problems would've been addressed with the 2nd series which was in production when the war broke out (one 2nd series machine was delivered on the second day of the war, it was actually a conversion of the #7 IK-3 1st series machine), this had an uprated engine, reactive exhaust and some aerodynamic refinements (mostly the underbelly oil cooler) which pushed the top speed up to cca 540 km/h and slightly improved climbing but still preserving the turn performance.

Now that one would certainly have a better chance against Emils!
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I'm an island, surrounded by a sea of idiots!

Bombnick

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 06:47:37 PM »

Sources I have are in Serbo/Croatian,

This shouldn't be a problem at all, if there's any interesting test reports in those books, snap a picture and show it ;).

What we are looking here are numbers from original documents rather than descriptions.

Quote from: Laufer
you have same problem with F-86 vs. MiG-15

Only the F-86F in 1953 catched up with / surpassed the MiG-15. Earlier versions of F-86 were inferior to the MiG with diving being a glaring exception. But we are derailing the thread with this.
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Maro

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 11:59:13 PM »

For IK-3 is good make own cockpit too.
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Laufer

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 05:23:02 AM »

Literature I used with stories of pilots and IK-3 possibilities are mostly from this books:

http://airserbia.com/vvkj/index.php?str=literatura

But here, it seems stories aren't accepted as relevant prove, then again all info about performance can be found on many sites over internet, there isn't problem about that IK-3 was slower little bit than Me-109, but we are talking about game, not so much about real plane possibilities, anyway we won't fly on it :) because its performance has been proved by dead Luftwaffe pilots over Belgrade, just game, AI problem, if in game Hurricane can beat Me-109 not to talk about Me-110 and we know that Hurricane is worse than IK-3, I don't see why IK-3 can't beat Me-109 then...am I right?
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Dreamk

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Re: Rogožarski IK-3 FM
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 05:37:03 AM »

From the start the IK3 was very similar to the D520, only better - the French never succeeded to overcome the huge aerodynamic problems of the D520 (above all the brutal stall without warning that was the plague of the D520), but truth is that the Yugoslavs are one more year to finalize development of the IK3. The design was more than similar, as was the engine, and thence the performances. And the tests made by the British between D520 and Bf109, together with IK3 combat reports, can serve as a basis for he IK3 performances
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