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Author Topic: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical  (Read 23888 times)

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Phas3e

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 01:00:09 PM »

When was paint scarce? do you have a source for that?
In various Luftwaffe books, pretty common knowledge I assume.

unfortunatly thats not a source, if claims like that are going to be made source is warrented as I have many many luftwaffe books and have never read anything like the above statement.
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Ass Eagle

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2012, 01:27:43 PM »

When was paint scarce? do you have a source for that?
In various Luftwaffe books, pretty common knowledge I assume.

unfortunatly thats not a source, if claims like that are going to be made source is warrented as I have many many luftwaffe books and have never read anything like the above statement.

Hello Phas3e!
First, I'm a huge fan of your Historically accurate skins! Thank you so much for those!

I suggest reading these books:

•Merrick, K.A., and Kiroff, Jürgen, Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings 1933-1945 Volume One, Hersham: Classic Publications, 2004
•Merrick, K.A., and Kiroff, Jürgen, Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings 1933-1945 Volume Two, Hersham: Classic Publications, 2005
•Merrick, K.A., and Hitchcock, Thomas H. The Official Monogram Painting Guide to German Aircraft 1935-1945, Boylston: Monogram Aviation Publications, 1980
•Ullmann, Michael, Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945, Manchester: Hikoki Publications, 2008

Each of the basic paint colors might have come out of Germany meeting the applicable RLM standard, but different thinners and even the underlying colors on the airframe would cause variations in the final color. When LOCAL supply lines grew thin, locally available colors that were 'close enough' were sometimes used instead'. The problem got worse the further outside of German the gruppen were.

Have you seen pictures of partially painted K-4? I guess though better wording word be.. 'local supplies'.. I need to be more clear next time!

I also suggest reading books of Allied bombing efforts, specifically about manufacturing & fuel/oil plants, and the trickle down effect it had on all German industries.

More Screenies [WIP] Opinions always welcomed!















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Phas3e

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 01:35:38 PM »

thanks for the kind words :)

I do have those books, and yes they talk much about the use of thinners primers and other chemical differences but nothing about the rareity of paint.

The reason I mentioned it is, that they cant be rare if they are made 'on site' to an RLM recipe, its also the reason we can never have a 'true' RLM colour,

Also Eagle editions Fw190D vol 2 has a very good section on the composition of german paints.
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Sonny Tucson

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 03:10:54 PM »

Hello Ice

Nice blow up !

You may be right after all. But if you do the same work on the picture appearing on the top right of page 39 , there is a difference  of tone just in front of the exhaust plates , like the one that appears on your blown up.

I like your skin anyway.

I'd like to see the picture on which Tomas Poruba based his colour profile !

Sonny Tucson :)
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Ass Eagle

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2012, 07:30:22 PM »

Its for fast identification of Me109's using C3 or 100 octane fuel. Not all did, but quite a few Ost Front 109's did paint either the struts partially, full, or the wheel covers red. Most 109's use a C3 sticker, but its seems only Galland with his 109F "Special" & 'Rosemarie' that I've seen use the 100 octane sticker.

Hello Ice

Nice blow up !

You may be right after all. But if you do the same work on the picture appearing on the top right of page 39 , there is a difference  of tone just in front of the exhaust plates , like the one that appears on your blown up.

I like your skin anyway.

I'd like to see the picture on which Tomas Poruba based his colour profile !

Sonny Tucson :)
Hello Sonny,

I'm not seeing no Luftflotte 4 band on the cowl my friend  :D But If I'm right, I bested some well known 'Luftwaffe experts'  ;)

thanks for the kind words :)
Well deserved words, you are a true Artist who has a very good eye for detailing Luftwaffe Aircraft  8)
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Ass Eagle

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 08:00:24 PM »

Red Stuts AND wheel covers (pilot [seen] walked away)


Gallands 109F 'Special' (foreground, good colour reference)


You can browse through my collection if you want:
http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/ASYLUM_thirteen/Messerschmitt%20Bf%20109G-10/
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Phas3e

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2012, 12:52:12 AM »

Just an idea, but the cowling could be from a 334XXX 109K
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Sonny Tucson

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2012, 06:31:15 AM »

Hello Ice

Nice blow up !

You may be right after all. But if you do the same work on the picture appearing on the top right of page 39 , there is a difference  of tone just in front of the exhaust plates , like the one that appears on your blown up.

I like your skin anyway.

I'd like to see the picture on which Tomas Poruba based his colour profile !

Sonny Tucson :)
Hello Sonny,

I'm not seeing no Luftflotte 4 band on the cowl my friend  :D But If I'm right, I bested some well known 'Luftwaffe experts'  ;)


Hi Ice

All right , you win ... ( but to be totally unfair it could also be that MY yellow band was OVERPAINTED when replacing the cowling , and hence the slight difference of tone . But this doesn't make any sense since  the Luftflotte band was painted in front of the  cowling , does it ? ).

There is always the possibility of some " artist" Schwarzman that decided that the Yellow band was not in accordance with the new cowling ! :P

So, when do you upload that damned skin of yours ? :P

Sonny  ;)

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Ass Eagle

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2012, 09:54:42 AM »

Just an idea, but the cowling could be from a 334XXX 109K
Thats always a possibility ;) do you have an example?

Hi Ice

All right , you win ... ( but to be totally unfair it could also be that MY yellow band was OVERPAINTED when replacing the cowling , and hence the slight difference of tone . But this doesn't make any sense since  the Luftflotte band was painted in front of the  cowling , does it ? ).

There is always the possibility of some " artist" Schwarzman that decided that the Yellow band was not in accordance with the new cowling ! :P

So, when do you upload that damned skin of yours ? :P

Sonny  ;)
Alot of the Hungarian 109's had the 50cm Luft4 band down the middle of the cowl.
When the skin is ready.. I will upload :D


Great collection of photos Ice~eagle, I really enjoyed browing through your gallery.
Most Excelent! The 109 is one of my favourite aircraft from WW2.

As you already know, Mike has recently asked me to help him out doing a profile image with a
Messerschmitt 109 E-4 (BoB era), if you would like, join us on this adventure to paint for yourself a cool
"Rosemarie" airplane profile. We are just doing this for the fun of it and learn a few Photoshop painting
tricks an´tips along the way.
Later you can always have it printed out and framed for your home or office.
I have asked Mike to make an open forum thread in the Lounge section so we can share ideas, info and Wips.
Thanks! That took along time to do! Not collecting the fotos mind you, but giving credits, figuring out the WrN's, units, etc..

As for your & mike project I'll help any way I can.


Another 'teaser' screenie:



Here you can see the misplaced Balkenkreuz, just like in the foto. Also note that I've determined that the remants of a 'yellow' number can be seen beneath the first 'white 1' on the port side, and covering some of the compase hatch, which I duplicated here. I also feel that there is a yellow border around the 'gruppe II' JG51 symbol. Well more then feel, I compare to other b/w fotos. Like Horst Petzchlers Me109G-10 (although that was a Mtt-Reg Eagle, paint is paint).

Now for Rosemarie pilot only known as 'Richter'.. I found this:

From: http://aircrewremembrancesociety.com/Kracker/LuftwaffeGermanPilotsR.html

~Richter, Gerhard, Ogefr - born 1924

~Bomber Trained, 3/EJGr(J)

~Do 17, Do 217, Bf 109 "Black 2", Bf 109G-10 "White 11"

~Fighter Operational Clasp

~A "New Growth" pilot, he was licensed as a fighter pilot on 23 March, 1945. He flew "Black 2" on his 1st mission on 7 April, 1945, which he forced landed at Halberstadt, due to an oxygen/blackout problem. AC pictured at Neubiberg, May 1945. The name "Rosemarie" appeared under the cockpit. Thought to be Richter's AC.
[/b]

I'm sorry to go on and on about this, explaining the details and such, but I want it to be known how I arrived at such conclusions.

As Pha3e said ' we will never determine the true RLM colours', but we can get close, colours & camo scheme.
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Ass Eagle

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 04:14:41 PM »

Now I'm begining to see something ;)





ALL day I look at colour fotos of WNF G-10 eagles, this might seem shocking to some of you, but I think this is closer
to reality. Still WIP. :D I may release this skin with a II./JG 52 ground attack mission!

Credits:
- 109G/K Template ~ Ravenskins
- Skin ~ Ice Eagle
- Period Correct Fotos ~ Luftwaffe over Czech Territory - 1945
                             ~ Augsburg's Last Eagles Colors, Markings and Variants
                                ~ Ice Eagle http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/ASYLUM_thirteen/Messerschmitt%20Bf%20109G-10/
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Sonny Tucson

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 05:08:06 PM »

Well Ice , you are right! I am shocked   ???

Looks like your research has pushed you that little bit too far. I can't see any relation between this last WIP and the preceedings.

What are these for colours ? BoB or Afrika light blue, why this hard demarcation line.? This cowling and different air intake ...

Pease get back to the essentials.


Sonny Tucson :'(
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Ass Eagle

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Re: WIP Bf109G-10 'Weisse 11' Rosemarie Historical
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2012, 11:30:36 AM »

Well Ice , you are right! I am shocked   ???

Looks like your research has pushed you that little bit too far. I can't see any relation between this last WIP and the preceedings.

What are these for colours ? BoB or Afrika light blue, why this hard demarcation line.? This cowling and different air intake ...

Pease get back to the essentials.


Sonny Tucson :'(

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