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Author Topic: Breda Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions) - updated 26/12/11  (Read 99597 times)

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LuseKofte

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 01:37:57 PM »

Gratefully and happy make a headsup for a bug, hope you do not mind

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SAS~Poltava

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2011, 01:39:22 PM »

DreamK! You are THE MAN! Thanks for this and your other SCW aircraft!!!  :D :D :D

Amazing, simply amazing!
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Gaston

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2011, 03:17:21 PM »

Yeah ! Like it very much ! I also saw the damage bug LeOne mentions above, but I am happy to see this so special plane in the game !

On my side, I have 1 question : what to put in the plane.properties file ?
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BT~Tarik

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2011, 03:23:33 PM »


On my side, I have 1 question : what to put in the plane.properties file ?

Always the first part of the air ini, then a space and the name you want to give it, whatever you want.

Example : Ba65A80ArconeL  Ba 65, 1935

(Dunno the real date, was just approx.)

Merry Christmas  ;)
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badderger

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2011, 09:59:41 PM »

Darn it I really want these birds CTD70% in DBW 1.6, DBW 1.5, HSFX5.1. 60% CTD in UP3RC4.All have Diff mod.Kinda surprised, most mods will take in at least one of these packs.Thanks anyway.
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Dreamk

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2011, 09:02:44 AM »

LeOne thanks! I think I just forgot to include suitable "cap" meshes - I'll do that for the coming update, together with the slats of the A80 and the corrected asymetric M turret (got a pic of it at last!)  - it won't take much time.
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Dreamk

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Re: To conclude a special week - Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2011, 09:07:14 AM »

Birdman Hi! Yes, the "nosing over" was a characteristic problem of this plane - it was so nose heavy that on the monopost version it was forbidden to empty the central fuel tank (situated behind the COG of the plane) and if due to circumstances pilots had to use all their fuel and not maintain at least a reserve of 115 liters (on a total of 650 liters) to land without flaps (or to crash if putting the flaps....)!
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Birdman

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Re: Breda Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2011, 09:40:34 AM »

Birdman Hi! Yes, the "nosing over" was a characteristic problem of this plane - it was so nose heavy that on the monopost version it was forbidden to empty the central fuel tank (situated behind the COG of the plane) and if due to circumstances pilots had to use all their fuel and not maintain at least a reserve of 115 liters (on a total of 650 liters) to land without flaps (or to crash if putting the flaps....)!
OK, then the right way to make this plane nose heavy on ground is to adjust the GC_Gear_Shift parameter in FM with my 3d height fix. A proper value for it (makes the plane almost nose over) still lets you take off normally, but in landing you'll have to be really careful with brakes. You can also try the other GC parameters in FM to get this plane properly nose heavy in flight and with flaps, and in some modded planes you'll also find code that changes GC based on amount of fuel to simulate that fuel tank problem.

You can also easily fix that damage bug with gears and bomb racks floating in air with broken wing. Just use midwing as their parent instead of inner wing and they'll detach correctly. Then main wheels and prop turn in wrong direction, for main wheels the fix is just to rotate the wheel meshes 180 deg in 3dsmax or hier.him.

Did this plane really break apart already at 440 km/h just a bit above top speed in slight dive?
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Dreamk

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Re: Breda Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2011, 09:55:38 AM »

Ok - you're right I'll give a run at the FM to see what can be done to improve that behavior.
the GC_Flaps_Shift is the relevant entry, and presently it is at 0.1. I'll try to increase it and see what happen. However, the aircraft was always nose heavy, not only at landing - so the real solution is probably a mix of gc parameters and cog forward positioning, as presently, just with some slight adjustement of both.
If I remember well the only mod with COG changing due to fuel quantity was the F51D by Josse, but there the problem was the opposite - instability at take off. Do you happen to know what are the "rules" of the GC parameters? or do we need yet to experiment and discover them?
Concerning top speed limit - I must probably raise that and quite probably raise the [Toughness] entries - Italian monoplanes were sturdy, not like their biplanes. I rememember having read something about desintegrating speed limit of the Ba65 in dive - I will check my doc.
Prop rotation for the Ba65 is another full issue - as a matter of fact each version (K14 and A80) rotated in a  different direction - I have now the correct original historical data for the engines and the planes (you cannot imagine the profusion of false performances data existing for this plane and its engines!!!) and the next update will probably include a revision of the EM and FM - though it will probably not bring some dramatic change, except possibly for take off behaviour.
However the whole issue of the emd for the Gnome-Rhone engine family needs to be adressed once for all in Il2 - it's quite crazy to see engines who are license version (not copies but license versions) with widely different emd parameters - it's still more interesting to see some license versions becoming "inline" engines (see the IAR series!). This is true for the 14K family and for the 9K family as well.
BTW difefrences between original, license and copies are quite interesting by themselves - In Italy license produced engines were often superior to the French original while the "improved" copies were a failure . In the Soviet Union the situation was inverted - the licensed versions were of low quality to say the least but the "improved" copies were really improvements! In Japan license were quite good and copies were real improvement under the weight constraints of Japanese planes. Hungarian license produced Gnome and Rhone were quite smooth and good.
One last thing - this plane model was built with the aim of being "nose heavy" so one need to be very careful when changing the position of this COG, as its position has an intimate relation with the behaviour of the gears hooks enabling the plane to stand correctly on the ground (without bouncing, crashing, sinking, having the tailwheel madly rotating and other Il2 typical charming fantaisies that are modders weel known nightmares to solve). As always, it's a question of improvements vs impairements balance.
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Dreamk

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Re: Breda Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2011, 11:17:42 AM »

Badderger hi! 60% CTD in UP3RC4. means that you have a conflict ini file entries vs FM
Check that:
1) you have put your Ba65 mod folder inside the #UP# folder
2) that in this same folder you have a DiffFM_for_UP30 forlder containing your UP3.0 specific Diffm java file (294ABC86A89FAEB4)
3) that you have a air.ini file in your \#UP#\STD\com\maddox\il2\objects folder
4) that you have correctly entered all the 7 additions to this air.ini and saved it
Good luck
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FANATIC MODDER

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Re: Breda Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2011, 12:17:09 PM »

Sorry it's more than that. I spent about a couple of hours to try this plane working and I was not able to. There must be a conflict somewhere.

Congratulations for the huge amount of work that you gave to us in a such a short time. All the new planes are great.
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Dreamk

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Re: Breda Ba65 K14 & A80 ready to DL (7 versions)
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2011, 01:06:53 PM »

mmmm......let's see....Check if you have in your Ba65 folder 24 java hashed files 8 somethinghashed_FM file and 2 somethinghashed_EM files - maybe you have an incomplete installation - I have it running on a UP30RC40. It may be worth to download once again the whole archive.
If thsi does not work, this link maybe will help you to identify the source of the problem (begin always by the 60% error and by UP30 - the DBW installations are often troublesome to manage)
  https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,22.msg28.html#msg28
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