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[Pavel_Sergeevich]

hi every one! I'm a leader of virtual aerobatic team ATM Air Force and i have some qustions.

why seria of Migs fly like a s**t? i fly in jet era 1.0 and all was perfect (fm of migs)...can some one explane how to create (or may be some one have modified Jet Era to UO 3.0 RC 4) seriosly neded

[Pavel_Sergeevich]

The exact description of a problem:
The plane (all series the Mig) both on small and on the big speeds (at rather sharp movement joystick in any party) easily falls in a flat corkscrew from which it can't be deduced. Historically it isn't valid (my father the test-pilot the verifier in OKB MIG and he tested instants since Mig-9)

Whether probably to replace FM from a jet era on UP 3? It is necessary only flight model instants from jet era

[Pavel_Sergeevich]

How long can it be?

[SAS~Storebror]

I'm just the coding bitch and I've desparately promised to myself never ever to take part in any FM discussion again, hence I stumpled upon this thread offhand. Eventually I took the liberty to move it to the right board in order not to get headaches from it again.
I apologize for any inconvenience resulting from this.

Best regards - Mike

[HansHansen]

by the way: its no problem to recover from a spin, just get the throttle to 0% and use the normal recovery procedure(push stick forward and rudder against spinning direction). it worked for me many times 

[SAS~Anto]

The exact description of a problem:
The plane (all series the Mig) both on small and on the big speeds (at rather sharp movement joystick in any party) easily falls in a flat corkscrew from which it can't be deduced. Historically it isn't valid (my father the test-pilot the verifier in OKB MIG and he tested instants since Mig-9)

Whether probably to replace FM from a jet era on UP 3? It is necessary only flight model instants from jet era

Yep and I'm an aeronautical engineer, because I said so. Unless you present us with some hard facts we can look at and perform some properly controlled in-game tests, we are just going to take this request as a rude comment. If you want us to help, then please refrain from insults and act like an adult. Present us with logical discussion and we will reply in kind. FYI, the flight model in UP3 is identical to the one available here at SAS.

[duffys tavern]

Just curious, have you tried aerobatics with diffrent fuel loads? I remember the problems with the F-51 and full fuel tanks. But I know less than nothing about this and may just be "muddying the waters."

[SAS~Anto]

Well the lack of a dignified reply or additional info to me says that this issue isn't worth pursuing. Unless there is a reply in next week, thread will go to the bin

[vanir]

MiG-15 was known to stall out into a head over flip, followed by an unrecoverable spin at upper altitude limits if handled improperly. Same problem as the F-104 (except the starfighter did it at any altitude) and for the same reasons.

under certain aerodynamic conditions the main wings block airflow over the T-tail, you lose horizontal stablisers immediately followed by no air over the whole tail section, which is right about when you turn into a basketball.

From MiG-17 onwards they didn't do it, and the MiG-15 only did it at higher altitudes, when the centrifugal intake engine was still pressurising nicely and pulling strong, but the airframe was a touch outside its envelope. It really was a terrific little engine that Rolls Royce and was the secret behind the MiG's upper alt advantages over the F-86.
Americans didn't find out about it until the F-104.

Now a recruit pilot, who wasn't used to the MiG, well he'd run around spinning it like a drunken Chuck Yaeger in a bar brawl.
So I'm forced to suggest, couldn't it be the pilot?

[HundertzehnGustav]

a pilot named "Pavel"?
^^

[sluggs]

Lol, I remember falling into that very same flat spin once (yes, only once). At the time, I was very inexperienced with the Mig-15 and had treated it like the F-86 (well, I attempted to treat it as such). I was playing online, and literally 20 seconds into the match, I pulled up a little too hard in an attempt to swing over on to an enemy's tail, then bam. Got stuck in a flat spin that I couldn't recover from, all the way down from about 28,000 feet to the ground. Needless to say, I was pretty pissed off.

[BT~Tarik]

Lol, I remember falling into that very same flat spin once (yes, only once). At the time, I was very inexperienced with the Mig-15 and had treated it like the F-86 (well, I attempted to treat it as such). I was playing online, and literally 20 seconds into the match, I pulled up a little too hard in an attempt to swing over on to an enemy's tail, then bam. Got stuck in a flat spin that I couldn't recover from, all the way down from about 28,000 feet to the ground. Needless to say, I was pretty pissed off.

From time to time I get such flat spins in both the Migs and the Sabres, mostly when fighting an AI that is running away from me, climbing. Then I get quite slow, and when I try to increase my AoA to climb more I reach stall speed (which is AFAIK higher in high altitudes) and spin.
Mostly when I'm high enough I'm able to recover, both in the Migs and the Sabres, using rudder oposite the direction of the spin, 0%power, flaps full and nose down. Of course it takes a little time, so when in low alt (1000 or 2000 meter) I bail out.