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Author Topic: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request  (Read 11418 times)

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SAS~CirX

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Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« on: June 25, 2011, 05:56:50 AM »

I am posting this here and I am sticying it, because it is important, and it has consiquences.

While working on UP3/DBW, we have gotten a fixed up new 3d model of the I-15_m from Birdman, modeled by Ivan750. It is very good, and a great imporvement. But I cannot find skins for it, or a template, and need help, because the one default skin it has, is not good enough.

If none can be found, the model cannot go into DBW. This is a horrid situation, and brings me to this post.

I have thought long and hard about this, as this issue affects a few new 3d model planes, most notable Japancat's zeros. The bottom line is this: A plane's model can be as accurate as possible, and as good as can be, but if it does not have skins, is not being supported by skinners, has not templates, then brother, it should step aside untill it does.

I have now countless times since the release of HSFX5, called guests into my PC room and told them I want to run a little test, and showed them a game I setup with all JC zeros and the olds ones mixed up, the old ones with FBDSM or other skins, the JC ones with the Kanjimi skins, which are the only ones available.

I ask them to tell me which one is the better 3d model, you know, which ones looks more real?

No one has yet ever picked one of the new models.  ever.

And this is simply due to a lack of template, which leads to a lack of skins. Kajinami's one or two (?) sets of skins are realy good, but he cannot possibly make up for 5 years of 100's of highly talented skinners going ape-shit on the old zeros.

So, if there are no template for JC's zeros in the next few months, I am putting out a patch for DBW that will alow users to overwrite the new slots with the old models, which will make all the old skins useable again. it will be optional. But it will still be sad.

Same goes for any other radical overhaul on any plane that disables olds skins, ESPECIALLY if it is on a high profile plane, and doubly especially, if the default skin sucks bricks.

I think, that the historians and musem researchers must build their own pack, with all the best 3d models, that they can stare at and study and admire.

And I will make a pack for guys who want to rock.

So, skinners, template makers, and especially modelers out there. Support your stuff. Share your templates, make more skins, because without great skins, and choice, even the best 3d model in the whole world is completely worthless to a simulation game environment.
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razor1uk

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 06:51:57 AM »

True enough words there Cirx
  Incedently, how much different for instance, is the newer JapanCat Zero skin layout to the stock, maybe an enterprising soul(s) could adapt the old zero template crediting the original template author and the modifier(s), using a Kanjimi skin as a reference point...?
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FlatSpinMan

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 07:34:21 AM »

This is a good call. Hard one to make, but I think it's sensible. Hard for those who have modded the planes and improved them, but really, the skin makes such a huge difference.
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SAS~CirX

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 08:35:01 AM »

True enough words there Cirx
  Incedently, how much different for instance, is the newer JapanCat Zero skin layout to the stock, maybe an enterprising soul(s) could adapt the old zero template crediting the original template author and the modifier(s), using a Kanjimi skin as a reference point...?

it is significantly diffferent. I could perhaps, if I had a realy hot Zero template, pull one for JC in photoshop if I had a few days or a week to spend and do it right, but I dont. Template making is the ultimate artform of skinning. And making on to that degree is a big order. If I had a version of photoshop that could cut and warp multiple layers at once, it would be more doable, but I also dont have that either  :-[
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US_GRANT

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 11:02:23 AM »

The biggest problem is that the new models differ so DRASTICALLY from the originals. What is needed for the skinners are the UV layers so they can make new templates. Just like what was done for the MiG-21 that Highlander did and the missiles that I made. Without the UV layers, skinners will have to start quite litterally from scratch and that will take a very long time to make new skins for the new birds.
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Condor

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 11:35:44 AM »

Cirx why don't you make a template/skin request in A&A Paintworks ? There hopefully someone will get a crack at it (and possibly quite nice too)
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STAX18

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 01:59:24 PM »

Skins for the new 3d models are very very welcome, but I prefer above this
Quote
... I am putting out a patch for DBW that will alow users to overwrite the new slots with the old models, which will make all the old skins useable again. it will be optional. But it will still be sad.

I would like to have such one optional JSGME-switch for all the planes with new 3ds (Zeros, Hs-129, Ju-88, MiG-3...), because they are still a lot of very good skins for the old 3d models. These excellent skins aren't worth to get wasted (until we have comparable ones for the new 3d models). With this switch we could select according to mission in each case the best skins for our mission, independently whether old or new 3d model.
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gn728

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 03:50:47 PM »

+ 1 for an "old Zero" overwrite
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CWMV

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 04:02:13 PM »

Well please do make it an option, and give us the opportunity to choose to use the new 3d model. I for one will always favor a better model over one that is awful but has a pretty skin. Planes like the MIG 3 have been eyesores since the games creation and a lack of a pretty skin won't stop me, and many others from favoring a closer to life representation of the aircraft.
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SAS~CirX

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 07:29:34 PM »

Hi CWMV. Oh yes I agree on the Migs, the new models are excellent, and, came right off the bat withan excelelnt template also! :)

Cirx why don't you make a template/skin request in A&A Paintworks ? There hopefully someone will get a crack at it (and possibly quite nice too)

A&A do great stuff, and I know they have seen this and that stuff is happening there. However, this is not something that should be expected of me to do. Believe me, I step on A&A enough, and other skinners, for templates and stuff for old models already :D I think in a case of a new 3d model, the responsibility is with the dev team. I feel even me posting this thread is perhaps a step out of bounds for me, since I am truly gratefull for the 3d work, and JC is a friend of mine for 3 years now. :)
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_Harpia_Mafra55_

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 07:33:09 PM »

S!

I agree with what was exposed by Cirx. There are many models that simply do not accept the skins already made. All work that often took hours or days, are thrown away by simply not be usable. This discourages anyone.
I can cite an example: I was testing skins for the A-1H. When I put in the game, the skin that was done, where was I drew the wings?
I looked at everything, and noticed that they only appeared when I installed the mod of A-1H which already figured in the game. I mean, to make some skins you have to reinstall the old planes that are already in UP_3.0? In the case of A-1H where the files are. Tga and. Tgb, password required for the wings and stabilizer? Only installing the A-1H to see them again?
These details make several skinners they will make skins for the aircraft which were originally in the game.

  Sorry it did not express myself well, my English sucks.

S!
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SAS~highlander_262

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Re: Calling all skinners, here is a serious request
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 02:19:04 AM »

Time for me to get back in the saddle, had enough time feeling sorry for myself. If I can be provided with the uvw mapping then I'll take on whichever ones I get .
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