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Author Topic: DCG for Dark Blue World - New Packs for DBW 171 & DCG 346/7  (Read 107158 times)

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RDDR Hangar19

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2011, 07:03:01 PM »

So happy to see this thread.
Thanks very much for your work.
As someone who has used DCG since it's inception I have to say this is great news.
For those who have never  tried it,your really missing the boat.

 I have always used DCG and MAT together. MAT creates hundreds,of marking combos of numbering from the beginning of the war until the end, and using it and DCG go hand and hand.
I was considering downloading Dark Blue World, but seeing this closed the deal.
Good news
Cheers,RDDR
PS
 
In the beginning way back, MAT was very difficult to install and get working properly,however there is now a auto installer.
auto installer
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Lonestar67

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 03 (2)
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2011, 09:03:14 PM »


Looking at something like this, already ran some tests but DCG doesn't handle the size well, transit times can be very long so needs some tricks. Interceptions also seem to override any range settings, so you get 109s from Leeuwarden flying over the North Sea with no hope of getting back, but CY6 vectors could replace this, need a way to switch them off.
Runs just like any other map as long as the actors is kept to a minimum.

Hi,
I had this problem at the beginning with my Bob campaign! I had all German airfields on the map active! But the problem was, that the German bombers,which started from the most distant airfields, just arrived above their target, as the English defense already flew back home!
I only want to say, dont make the map for a Bob campaign too big!
All the best for your map and campaign!
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Slink

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2011, 09:33:35 AM »

Thanks for the files Slit, very useful to have somebody who knows the Eastern front, I'm a bit of a noob there... but I thought the biplanes in Berlin also a bit odd, but now you can change them!

I put them into the draft but still need to check the remaining loadouts and class.dcg data, so v6 will follow DBW 1.4 or 1.5.

Lonestar; thanks mate, it's an honour, I know you said you don't use mod packs but maybe I can lure you to the dark (blue) side? The transits are indeed a problem on the CC map, which is one reason why this is just a test campaign for now, I may have to cheat and move Luftwaffe bomber squads to forward airfields, and even share with fighters later when we need escorts. Using the timetable this could even be done on a day to day basis, moving back and forth as was really the case, but would need to be coordinated with the Luftwaffe AttackRendezvous settings, and tracking the movements is a logistic nigtmare...

I wanted a map to include the whole historical scenario, and big enough to also be used for other campaigns and periods so we only have to do things once and then the reuse the same stuff. Did try going up to Norway too, but the DEM data is poor and I reached the 25,000 pixel limit in Microdem, but didn't want to do it in sections like the Alpen map, and also wanted to try and have something useful in the corners, like Liverpool, or just avoid players seeing the edge of the map, a real immersion killer, but it's inevitable.

Biggest problems are actors and textures, so many airfields already pushes the limit. The textures have to be recycled, base "identifying look" textures for the different areas (N & S England, France, Holland, Denmark, Germany?) but then for example using the Dutch textures for other lowland areas like around the Wash in England and as highlights to break up the monotony elsewhere, like airfield textures also for coastline variety or vice-versa, if they are properly tiled (which some of the current one's aren't yet) it works even better, but I'd also like to get rid of the pools, pylons, motorways and golf courses... still playing around, but I'm no master mapper!

RDDR, yep, MAT is cool, and does allow more varied historical markings, but the GUI is confusing, and we need the skins to go with it, using consistent colour tones, stencilling, coloured ID patches and no unit emblems. Be nice if there was also a built-in random selection for each default theatre so we could have mixed A & B schemes or just some variation in squads set to default, bit like the random codes on Spitfires, but is it possible?
Lot's of skins to do though, a vast job for skinners. Don't look at me, you can see my skins already...  but it all certainly adds to the overall atmosphere, now if we could also tone down all the solid monotone, even dayglo colours on many ground objects (batch processing?).

Also, have look at Pablo's new jsgme replacement, I already lost a whole set of updates to jsgme swopping recently, and this looks great.

However, getting off-topic as this thread is meant to go back to the DCG compatibility files, the campaign has it's own thread now.
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Lonestar67

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2011, 07:06:15 PM »


I know you said you don't use mod packs but maybe I can lure you to the dark (blue) side?

I still have the 2.01 version on my plate and it works fine for the older campaigns! I must admit that I'm a bit lazy to install everything again, maybe later!
May the force be with you!
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kpn.kardif

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 03:20:51 AM »

I don't think this is a DBW thing, as I seem to remember it happening while playing with DCG and UP2.01, but maybe some of you experts here can shed some light on it...

I just started up a campaign over New Guinea flying the P-39.  First mission while in transit and on autopilot, I decided to have a look around at some of the other action taking place.  This allowed me the distinct honor of watching two wings of P-40's get completely obliterated by two Zekes.  The P-40's we carrying bomb loads, and made absolutely no attempt to defend themselves other than calling for help on the radio, one or two may have flown in a lazy circle.  Not exactly fancy maneuvering.  My question is, is this normal DCG behavior or is this somehow related to UP3 or DBW?  My guess is they had their mission to bomb a target, and were unable to deviate from that, even if it meant certain death.  Kind of an immersion killer if my squadron is the only one able to deviate from orders to effect self preservation.  I am also flying with the AI mod enabled...

Any insight at all would be greatly appreciated!  :D
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Lonestar67

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 09:11:55 AM »

Hi kardif!
I believe its an AI thing and you are right, it happened also in 4.09m!
But you can test it if you create a similar Mission in FMB!
I personally changed the payload for the P-40 in all my campaigns, so that they behave as Fighters and let the Bomber in that role!
The P-38 is also a good Fighter Bomber, because of their speed!
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Slink

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 09:24:06 AM »

Lonestar is right, it's the AI, DCG has no control or input once you start a mission, it's purely down to the game internals how they behave if carrying stores or not. Didn't people complain earlier about FBs jettisoning stores as soon as enemy planes came in sight?

There is a problem in mission building where you have to put a last waypoint at the airstrip before a squad lands, otherwise they will always go into dumb mode when they reach the next to last waypoint; if that's in the combat area then expect turkey shooting. Shouldn't be a problem in DCG though, and they were inbound with bombs still on board.
Always try testing a mission without the new AI if something funny comes up, usually becomes clear, like my crashing Blenheim IVFs...

However, don't give up on the new AI, it's still in development, so things will only get better, and the general behaviour and flight manoeuvres are much improved, do some observing and watch how planes peel off, lovely. Still has problems, but maybe report it in the AI bug thread? Make sure you test the same mission with and without the AI though, to confirm it is a bug with the new version and not with the stock AI.

So, busy busy, want to make 6 a definitive reliable version, I can only assume 5 was working generally OK, apart from the Russians, but the Russians are coming!
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Lonestar67

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 10:36:30 AM »

However, don't give up on the new AI, it's still in development, so things will only get better, and the general behaviour and flight manoeuvres are much improved, do some observing and watch how planes peel off, lovely. Still has problems, but maybe report it in the AI bug thread? Make sure you test the same mission with and without the AI though, to confirm it is a bug with the new version and not with the stock AI.

I hope you're right, Slink!
I am of the opinion that the fighter bomber dropped their bombs in previous versions and have defended themselves!
Even the escorts act sometimes a little strange! Once these have contact with the enemy, they fly first to the previous waypoint and attack only when it's usually too late! That was in previous versions also not the case!
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kpn.kardif

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 11:44:43 PM »

Well I can say for certain that it's not the AI mod.  Just set up a scenario in FMB as recommended by lonestar, with four p-40's armed with bombs and heading for target, two zekes inbound to intercept them.  The result was similar both with and without the AI mod, with the warhawks jettisoning their payload as soon as the zekes were in visual range.  It was interesting to see the behavior difference between the two tests though, AI mod didn't have them go straight head to head on the first pass, with both sides trying to stay out of the line of head on fire rather than charging right into it. 

I did just check the settings for the P-40E in DCG, it's default setting is "ground attack"... could this be the problem?  I imagine it's possible, since other ground attack craft (like the IL2) don't really ever engage in dogfights.  The P-40 isn't such a craft though, and is able to hold it's own in a dogfight.  But in this case I guess they've got their orders, and won't deviate from it even if attacked, and even if they could survive the attack by dropping their load and defending....Could the guys working on the AI mod maybe get their hand in on this?  In any case, I'll try setting the P-40 mode to "fighter" instead of "ground attack" and see what happens.  If it is set to "fighter", will DCG still assign it ground attack roles once in a while?  Winning a DCG campaign means winning the ground war, so having those guys still be able to do ground attack missions could be helpful.

Thanks for the recommendation about the P-38 too, think it's a little too early to use it though (june 1942) 
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kpn.kardif

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2011, 02:03:42 AM »

Ok... had a new problem crop up.  I finish my mission, and the green apply button isn't there.   ???   Dunno what the problem could be here, but it's got me a little frustrated.  I finished my ai testing and decided jump back into the campaign after tweaking the p-40 to be fighter instead of ground attack.  Well, after successfully landing and patting myself on the back for a mission well flown, I hit quit mission, read over the debrief, and my heart quickly sank when i realized the apply button wasn't there.  Main menu button and refly buttons were both fine.  I hit refly and as soon as the mission loaded, I hit quit again, figuring I'd just scrub it and see what happens.  Same thing, no apply button. 

So I deleted my dcg folder and re-downloaded the program, put Slink's v.05 files into it, loaded the game back up and started a new campaign, different map and everything.  Flew first mission, had some success, good landing, quit mission only to once again see the apply button not there. 

Also, just because I don't think it's been said enough, thank you thank you thank you guys for doing all that you do.  I've been playing some really amazing community made static campaigns lately, and to see how far this sim has come is utterly mind blowing.  Now if I can get DCG running and doing what I think it's supposed to do... oh man, such incredible possibilities... 
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Slink

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2011, 02:46:19 AM »

Yes, if you change them to fighter they may still get the occasional ground pounding mission as long as there is still a bombs loadout available in the ground attack box.

Changing the role of a plane in DCG only changes what kind of mission DCG will assign, strike, intercept, CAP, recce etc; it cannot change how IL2 handles that plane in the game once you load and start the mission, like DGEN it only runs between missions (when you click apply) to generate the next one, it's basically a score keeper and mission builder, again like DGEN which it indeed replaces, but with a lot more options.

Behaviour will also depend on skill settings remember, try the same mission with novice pilots and ace supermen, anything below veteran is pretty poor, and above pretty uber.

As for the new AI, well it's still in development, the fact that Anto & the crew are working on it is fantastic, but give them time (and feedback), there are bound to be teething troubles just as when Certificate was working on it originally (presume he got his certificate).

Flying to previous waypoints sounds like ship attack behaviour though (an easy way of avoiding a proper search and contact reaction routine in the original game... and shame it seems the ships AI cannot be changed without high level programming), but the other point is that all the other AI mods we need, like turrets, gunners, throttles and ground attack routines, can all be incorporated. If you use them with Certificate's mod you can only have one or the other, they use the same class files, so this way we can have everything, just takes a while.

Interesting point would be how the cloud/vision AOC mod will fit in, seems very quiet on that front.

Still going through the new weapons file, cleaning out errors and placeholders, most are still there. Also cleaned, corrected and unified all the text descriptions, though some will simply never fit on screen I imagine. I'll put up a cleaned, corrected, sorted and formatted file soon as I'm through it.

Still have the 20 character problem in DCG though.



kpn.kardiff, off the top of my head, check the mission completion setting in the campaign options screen, if this is set you can't continue to the next mission without "completing" the mission for the current one, and in DCG that's sometimes impossible (your target is already destroyed or you ended the mission early etc.). You'll also have to start a new campaign to change this, settings are locked once you generate the campaign. I always set them up in QMB, and then quickly open QMB when I launch to automatically set the campaign settings, they're carried over. Saves setting them up for every campaign.

So, gotta go back to RL, work to do...
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kpn.kardif

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Re: DCG for Dark Blue World 1.3 - Version 05
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2011, 02:49:39 AM »

hahaha.... ya know, you'd think i would have remembered to check that after flying this sim for five years.  Flight officer DERP reporting for duty, SIR!!   ::)

Unchecking "no instant success" fixed it, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Slink.  Can't wait for version 06, Russian campaign would be mighty fun.  Always loved flying YAK's.   
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