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Author Topic: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier  (Read 16035 times)

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CzechTexan

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Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« on: April 11, 2011, 08:14:19 PM »

Looking more closely at this map I noticed there are a few airfields still missing.  I'm talking about the 1941-42 era when the P-40s flew from new strips on the Bataan Peninsula. 
I've been reading "Fall of the Philippines" which is very good about detailing the campaign, although it's mostly about the ground battles because the USAAF was almost eliminated in the first days.

I wonder if a smaller map could be made with only the island of Luzon (for 1942).
...Would this be a desirable map?

Reupload:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cqr1ekpkrul33ou/dlv_Philippines_v2.0.exe
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CzechTexan

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 09:09:03 PM »

IMO it would be a fairly easy map to make.  Delvpier's map is pretty good with locations, roads, etc. so it could be a good reference.  Would just need to get updated SRTM data for luzon... if anyone wants to help me get that.

I had thought about doing a JAVA map but now I'm more interested in Philippines.  I'm just more intrigued by the battles there and the "what if" scenarios ...if the USAAF and Army were reinforced and not left whithering on the vine by the US war department.
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CzechTexan

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 04:17:52 PM »

Col. King, I did a search on AllAircraftSimulations and found a link to V2.0 of the map:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/17824805/dlv_Philippines_v2.0.exe
reupload see first post!

Someone else PM'd me and offered their Luzon WIP map. 
If Luzon has already been started then that's great news!
I'll have a look at it and most likely continue work on it.
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jt189

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 06:06:36 AM »

It works in 410.1 too very nice
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Cheyenne

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 01:15:36 PM »

~S~ Every One
Have read the post on the Philippines Map. I for one would like to see this
beauitful map be redone with the correct air fields and naval bases on it.
Also like to see it retecture with coconut,mango and banana trees instead of
original trees from IL-2, which makes the Philippines Map unrealistic.
Also missing Air and Naval bases at Cebu and Lapu-Lapu which is an important
base in the Visayas Islands. Plus there was no sea base in Dinagat Island.
I know for fact about this because I live in the Philippines and I am about an hour away
from Leyte Island. Also the little air base at Del Monte in which Gen. McArthur took off
from when order out from the Philippines. Here is a link that shows all the Air and Naval
Bases in the Philippines before and during WW2.
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/philippines/index.html
If any one would like to try and redo this map let me know and I will try and help as much as I can.
I am not a map maker, however this Philippines Map is an important map for the Pacific War.


Kabayo
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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 02:09:54 PM »

CzechTexan!

Yes, that's a super idea. I once had an idea to do a P-40 campaign for this map, but abandoned it due to some airfields simply lacking.

Hope you have a go!

(PS. Love your Caucasus map!)
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Koi

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 09:04:17 AM »

I agree with you. I have always felt the map was way to small and should have been made in sections, but I think it needs to be split up into at least three parts : A Northern part( Luzon Area ), Centeral part (Cebu, Negros  leyte and  all the island of Visayan Islands grouping) and Southern part (Mindanao). Each area was fought as a seperate campaign. In fact I guess one could argue for four parts as Leyte could be a seperate map. I fact four would be better. Leyte is not very big and in order to fit in many of the actual feature it will need to be made much larger as the actual distances are a bit small.  Even on Luzon the distances and compactness are very limiting. The distance from Manila to where both the Japanese and American made there major landing is only around 115 miles which is very compact. The same landing beachhead area at Lingayen  is around 20 miles wide and contained three airfields while around Mailia, an area 7 mile by 5 mile, had three major fields. Even the little island of Corregador had a landing strip. The Geographic compactness makes it impossible to actualy place many of these runways in a scaled down map any where near where they actually were and should be. On the now exsisting map one just has to leave them off or place them miles away from there actual location greatly distorying there size and shape.
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Cheyenne

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 09:21:44 AM »

~S~
IMHO I say the Philippines Map should stay as one whole map.
My reason for this is because of the Sea, Air and Land Battles
that took place there. One exmple, The Battle for Leyte Gulf,
which cover a wide area. Plus if you wanted to do a Air Campiagn
from Leyte to Davao or to Manila, you would need the whole map.
However if you wanted to make different maps of the Philippines
you will have to first understand the Geography of the Philippines.
There are 7,107 islands that make up the Philippines. Here is a link
on the Geography of the Philippines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Philippines
You would have to make three sections of the Philippines
1) Luzon
2) Visayas and
3) Mindanao, the Island in which I live on, Surigao City
Koi in some ways I agree, however the Philippines Map we have now, you can
still place the air fields and Naval Bases on thsi map. If some one would take the time
to do it.
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Cheyenne

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 09:41:25 AM »

continue from above post:
yes maybe there is a need to make at least three maps of the
Philippines Islands, however we would still need the whole Philippines Map
in order to do complete Air and Sea Campiagns.
Also in makeing the three different maps of the Philippines, you would also
have to texture it right. At least 90% of all the islands in the Philippines are
covered with coconut, mango, banana and apple trees, plus small rice paddies
and the right type of huts and housings.
Also to place in the right place of all the Air Fields and Naval Bases.
There was a lot of Air Fields thoughout the Philippines, before and during the
Japanese Occupation. Almost every air port in the Philippines today are from
the air fields that was used by both America and Japanese.
Here is a link I put on my earlier post of the Air and Sea Planes Bases:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/philippines/index.html
I just want to make sure this map is done right, for my Filipino friends and country.
So if any one is willing to do the work on the Philippines let me know and I will help you as much as I can.
Since I live in the Philippines and can get to the Historical Places here. Like I live right by the Surigao Striat
Where the Batte for Surigao Striat took place.
So just PM me if you want more info.
Kabayo
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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 12:01:25 PM »

Hey Guys,

              Thought I'd revisit this post , as the Philippines is a major and unique component of WW2 in the Pacific Theatre.
              First , I started to layout a Philippines 1941 Campaign with the intention of using Delvpiers original map , which I would argue is a really good size for a Philippines campaign in terms of an SEOW style online campaign. Both for 1941-42 and for 1944 it really does contain the bulk of the area necessary for both campaigns.
Once I started reviewing the research materials , however , its outdated components became clear.
Delvpier this is no disrespect for you and your work - I have spent a lot of hours and had a lot of pleasure using this map.
I am however an historically minded old goat , and would like to see it get an upgrade.

              I would support an upgrade to this map as opposed to a newer smaller scale version purely because of the excellence of the operational area covered, which is (to me) a common failing for IL2 maps. Let me explain this as I don't want to offend our brilliant and prolific map makers, just make a comment. To me an excellent Map in IL2 represents an operational area that can be well represented in terms of ground (and/or naval) force movement (which let's face it is the true measure of the geography of most campaigns), and also encompasses area(s) required for airbases of both sides , and includes entry areas for supply - necessary for the actual prosecution of any military campaign. The closer to 1:1 that is feasible as a playable final product , the better. A good map for IL2 must reflect the air combat challenges as they existed for the real pilots ; in my mind if long overwater navigation in poor weather was part of the challenge , it should at least be partially reflected in a well designed IL2 map .

Assuming the re-use of this map as a template for redevelopment , a few project objectives need to be decided upon.
The face of the Philippines was very very different between 1941 and 1944 - the obvious most important timeframes for the historical application of this region.

This is the rationale that I would apply in developing this map.

Goals

1) Map of the Philippines December 8, 1941 to cover the invasion by the Japanese.  This map would be the  **first priority** , as it would also serve as the necessary blueprint for all the other
   (potential) versions.
    Map of the Philippines ca.Dec 20 , 1941 with the additional temporary strips built by US engineers in central plains and
    on the Bataan peninsula - I know this is a ridiculously short span for a map differentiation , but no less than 7 (and
    possibly more) airfields were activated between Dec8-21. If a compromise must be struck I guess a Dec 8 Map with the
    beginnings of several others as simple dirt emergency strips is the best way to go.
2) Map of the Philippines for June - December 1944

Objectives/Rationale
As this map was designed quite a while ago , a large number of improvements available in current techniques and textures will make the improvements dramatic.
I believe the general map outlay to already be very good , so this should work as a good foundation for the other work to be done. I don't believe it needs a redefinition of the overall area covered. If others feel that a new basis is needed , I would argue towards expanding just a bit to the north , to encompass Batan Island (not to be confused with the Bataan Peninsula) which was the only actual invasion conducted by the Japanese on Dec 8, 1941 in order to use its small airstrip as a forward airbase.
1) Improve the topography. The Philippines are very mountainous , and need to receive a complete makeover in topography.
Also , the waterways need some development ; especially to the north and east of Bataan peninsula, bridges over rivers were key to the success of the USAFFE in resisting the advances of the Japanese Army for so long.
If there is a good way to do so , some smaller waterways would make a big improvement to the immersive qualities of the final result - I am not sure if the mapmakers have resolved this particular hurdle or not.
There are several key mountain features unrepresented , especially on Luzon , and Corregidor needs to be a bit more dramatic in its height - while not really high in terms of height above sea level, it had/has very little land at sea level.
2)Make more accurate airfields. Only a few airfields in all of the Philippines were heavy bomber capable in 1941 : Clark , Nichols, Iba , and Del Monte #1 (and possibly Nielson). The only airfield in all the Philippines at the time of the Japanese assault with a paved strip was Nichols , and only one of its 2 available strips was paved. ALL other fields and bases were either turf , dirt , or a combination of both. Also , there is a tendency to allow a lot of open space around airfields in the Pacific by mapmakers, but this was largely not the case ; often the jungle encroached to the edges of the field area. I would argue that this should be the case for many of the smaller Philippine airfields. (The great work  by Bee on the latest Rabaul map is what is in my mind's eye for this).
3)The road net in the Philippines was quite limited - usually by mountainous terrain , and secondarily by jungle and waterways. Only one railline existed on Luzon and ran from Legaspi - Atimonan - Manila - Cabanatuan - Lingayen - Baguio.
I believe a spur line ran from Manila - Cavite - Batangas - can someone verify or deny this?
Did a rail line run to Olangapo/Subic Naval Yard?
Was there a rail line on Mindanao?
4) Newer Pacific textures need to be incorporated as well. In additional to the redoubtable Bombsaway shallow water textures,
   ricepaddies , sugarcane , rubber and pineapple plantations could all contribute , as well as Jungle-Mountain combination textures, and some really intimidating swamp textures would be very
   useful  as well.
   * Question for senior mapmakers - would it be possible to creat 3d sugarcane in the same manner as woods?
5) As much as possible the water around the islands should be navigable by Ship Objects.

There have been any number of people who have expressed an interest in the Pacific maps, and as I have no modding ability whatsoever all I can do is offer to coordinate efforts, which I am willing to do.
These are just a few of the folks who have perked up at the thought of South Pacific work before :
Farang, Bee , MissionBug, CzechTexan, Lonestar, Kabayo, Col King, Bombsaway, Redko, Agracier, Whitecat, Neil Lowe, DaveOD06, Checkyersix , Mr.Oblongo just to name a few...(no intent to leave anyone out)

I would be grateful for any advice on how to proceed if anyone cares to provide any.

As I see it tasks at hand are :
1)more research - particularly historical airfield layout. I only have good info (photos and layout)  for Clark and Mariveles.
2)redo topography
3)correct roads and railways
4)some original city/town layouts , at least for Manila , Cavite , Olangapo , Cabanatuan , Davao , Iloilo
5)some original airfield layouts , at least for Clark , Iba , Nichols , Del Monte#1 , Kindley (Corregidor) , Nielson , Batangas , Mariveles , Lubao  and a couple of generic Jungle Dirt Airstrips and Jungle Turf Airstrips.

Anyhow , if anyone is willing to contribute in any way to this as agroup project , please contact me.

Thanks


Kopfdorfer


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SAS~Poltava

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 03:35:07 PM »

Your updating project is very ambitious, but I also think it's a good idea. This map and IL-2 deserves it!

Hope you can pull it through!  :)
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CzechTexan

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Re: Philippines map V2 by Delvpier
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 06:44:00 PM »

I have a basic Luzon Island map but have not done anything to it.  It was given to me by someone else...sorry but I lost track of who that was and I lost all my pm's...So whomever made this map available to me I'd like to hear from you. 

Need to start the texturing over from scratch.  Right now it's a blank slate and ready for someone to start work on it.  I can make it available is someone wants to start serious work on it.

Unfortunately, right now I'm deeply involved with re-doing BurmaLower and that huge map will take some time.  I'd love to see an accurate Luzon or total Philippines.  Delvpier did well for this being one of the earlier mod maps but map- making is more advanced now and a facelift is well deserved.
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