Special Aircraft Service

Individual Mod Downloads for IL-2 1946 => Other Mods => WIP => Topic started by: Mission_bug on November 19, 2019, 03:23:55 PM

Title: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 19, 2019, 03:23:55 PM
What is one of those, you might ask and has it anything to do with IL-2?

Airfix anyone?

Surely many of you must have built one of these in your youth:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7YvvMprn/Coles-crane-0-Airfix-03305-Recoveryse.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0LDJsRW)

Well, after building a plane, then some churches, I needed some inspiration to make something else and thought seeing as
many of the aircraft we wanted are now in the game as are many of the fighting vehicles, what could possibly be missing?

I found myself going through what might be needed for the airfields and found myself looking back over things I made as a youth
and came across this site of a preserved vehicle in Belfast and here we are. ;)

3d model and WIP templates:  Peter Shaw aka Mission_bug.

New texture for updated high poly wheels:  Rogeroger.

Driver 3D and its original texture: wingflyr?

Soldier modified to fit the Thorneycroft and Coles by Peter Shaw. Found in 08__new_Vehicles_p7_public_version_v1 from SAS~Epervier.

All links removed 19th October 2021 due to final release pack in vehicles section:

Early days:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CydTQb8/Coles-crane-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZCBgPhx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bYS0f5DM/Coles-crane-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6Tw4dYhL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CCWKXgZ/Coles-crane-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmgpyZTj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjh3ywbd/Coles-crane-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnX1p4gm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/L6zznZV3/Coles-crane-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dxyqNVk)

The poly level starts to rise, oops, I always get carried away. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/Gtzd5KCj/Coles-crane-6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvLgLmNL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/P5CTS1Fm/Coles-crane-7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4YRDdHGd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rmkTy3yJ/Coles-crane-8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDXCX9kF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KYLF2xbj/Coles-crane-9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZVtKMp6)

Not sure how many images I can post in one page so I will collect a few more for tomorrow.  ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon with Coles Mk.VII crane.
Post by: asheshouse on November 20, 2019, 12:32:32 AM
Nice project.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon with Coles Mk.VII crane.
Post by: erafitti on November 20, 2019, 03:33:09 AM
Excellent choice.  ;)

Un saludo.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon with Coles Mk.VII crane.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 20, 2019, 04:34:37 AM
Hello guys, good to know you both like the choice I made. 8)

The intention is to do the whole set eventually, however, the few drawings I have of the Queen Mary trailer are not very clear, I think I pulled
them from the net and they were themselves what seemed to be scans from a book, I have a better drawing for the Bedford tractor unit that
pulls it though.  The Thorneycroft uses a scale drawing from the Blueprints site, was the best I could find so I made a start. ;)

Here are the remaining images I put together to show the remainder of the build over the last few months:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9f6CLxc4/Coles-crane-10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/McmCTmMx)

It was difficult to see what was underneath, some of the shots from the site I posted the link for had parts
obscured by certain things, in the end I found a Airfix forum where one had been made and that helped. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2LRp1WS/Coles-crane-11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7MLYTT1)

Testing in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BbZypDPL/Coles-crane-12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkX4thBw)

The chassis has become a Body mesh for the test, the poly limit is getting just over 2500 at the moment:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4yBCRwRQ/Coles-crane-13.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZkN821h)

There is still the rear hook to add, seen here on this photograph from the Yorkshire Air Museum at Elvington, York, that with one at
the front will take the mesh to the normal IL-2 limit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NHr98vg/Thorneycroft-Amazon-Crane11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bsncMVK)

BodyTop has been added with the hier, this will have the drivers cab and all the mudguards as well as
the turntable for the crane:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wb5VBp2c/Coles-crane-14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7kwc4dT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MG89tRh6/Coles-crane-15.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWVP59b2)

Mapping is done as I construct certain elements, that way I do not have to do it all in one go, very tedious:

(https://i.postimg.cc/63Mz9PTq/Coles-crane-16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nNDBJG1)

At the moment the trick is to get onto one texture all the necessary parts, what I intend with the above is
to finish the chassis parts and then add the upper body to here if I can get it all to fit, wheels and Coles crane
will most likely need their own texture, we will have to see.

Also, where possible I am trying to map each face from all the individual parts so if need be painting one side
a different colour is no issue, that said if I have to I can take some of the less easy seen parts and double up
the mapping to save some space, I never do things the easy way it seems always the long hard road. :D

Strictly speaking this is purely a build project of something I thought would be interesting and so keep me at
what will be quite a slow build, it is not necessarily for the game, trouble is I keep thinking in terms of how it
will go into IL-2 just because it is somewhere I can test things as I go because I know the format. :o

It looks like the build will become four sections:

Chassis.
Upper bodywork.
Wheels.
Coles crane.

To make this a running model in IL_2 1946 modded is straight forward enough as the mesh of each section can be
assembled using the hier and the vehicle set up in its traveling configuration, difficulties arise though to set it as
a static object if users do not have the necessary DLL files to allow a object to be multiple parts and also if I get
carried away with the polygon count then other DLLs will be required for that as well.

The issue for a object is you really want to be able to set the Coles crane into a position that fits your scene in
a mission, it might be I have to make four separate objects for those without the appropriate DLLs but they would
basically have to put the vehicle together from four or more objects. :P

The alternative would be to have Chassis, body and wheels assembled as one but considerably reduce the poly
count, if I can by that stage, the Coles could then be a second object that could be added and rotated to
where it was required to complete the illusion of a working gang rather than just have the thing in its mobile
configuration.

Anyway, much to think about as I build, further updates will now be smaller and less frequent as I will add them as I
do each particular piece.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon with Coles Mk.VII crane.
Post by: Kopfdorfer on November 20, 2019, 08:14:20 AM
Really interesting project Bug , both in terms of the object itself and its usefulness in
populating airfields , but to my non-modding mind , it seems to hold the opportunity to develop
code that can treat one "game" object as 2 ( or more dare I say it ) "combined " or "compound"objects.
What if this object had a properties tab that affected "component rotation" using the keyboard  ,
the same way mission builders rotate any object.
In this way you could have the chassis pointing one way , and the second component another.
In addition to being useful to cranes , it could also be applied ( a lot of work , I know , I know) to any object that had rotatable components such as tank turrets , ship turrets , aircraft mg turrets, Bubnkers of certain types.
It also holds potential for train turntables and drawbridges - which would be awesome for transit of vessels on inland waterways.

Your idea just unleashed some images in my mind and I could not help but share them.

Great project.

Kopfdorfer
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon with Coles Mk.VII crane.
Post by: SAS~Storebror on November 20, 2019, 09:15:02 AM
Just wow.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon with Coles Mk.VII crane.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 20, 2019, 09:21:37 AM

Your idea just unleashed some images in my mind and I could not help but share them.

Careful with those images Kopfdorfer, this is a family show. :o

That is something to put by the coders Kopfdorfer, maybe it is possible, maybe not. ;)

The only way I can think of at the moment using what already exists is to build it like a tank, the crane compartment and jib take the place of head and gun from a tank, however, the vehicle would need a enemy object to initiate the code for the crane and make it revolve, awkward I think because you want it to move to a specific place and not continue to move around looking for the enemy objects needed as it moves toward a stopping point, then there is the issue that the artillery around the airfield would take out the enemy object you need to activate the rotation.

Alternatively if the polygon count could be reduced to allow all the components to be assembled as one object then you could have a number of those each with its own name and with the crane rotated to a certain point so you just add that specific object into your mission.

Once I have all the parts built I will be able to determine how best to utilize things, still the most likely is the player assembles what will most likely be the four objects listed to make the complete vehicle, the moving lorry will be set in the travel position.

I am surprised nothing already exists like the recovery set in the game, maybe it would have spent more time on the road than actually at any particular airfield, would be interesting to know just how they were used, did each airfield have the set or were they based at a maintenance complex and deployed only when necessary to pick up damaged aircraft and take them to a repair facility or back to the manufacturer?

Just wow.

I thought the game needed something a little different Mike, glad you like it. 8)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Zflyer48 on November 20, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
A great project, Pete. Good luck as you continue this mod.

Best Regard
Mike
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on November 20, 2019, 11:13:51 AM
Excellent choice Pete 8), airport infrastructure is very much needed,
I wish you good luck in the implementation of the project.
Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: cgagan on November 20, 2019, 12:05:18 PM
A great project indeed! Keep up the good work, best, Costas
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 20, 2019, 12:39:22 PM
Hello guys, glad you each like my choice of project. 8)

Hopefully progress will be reasonable, not a snails pace. :D

Finding references has been a little difficult but depending on what figures you read up to 2000 of these were made, many would see
civilian service post war, there are images out there that show the chassis towing various trailers as well as the crane equipped version
I have started so who knows what we might end up with. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on November 20, 2019, 02:25:20 PM
Great stuff Pete!

Takes me back....ahhh those Airfix sets...Fire Engine + Amb and the Bowser set, along with this...just great memories.

(As an aside my stepfather was in the RAF in the late 40's. He was part of a recovery team, recovering downed/crashed Meatboxes and Vampires in Holland and W.Germany.  He used to talk about using the Queen Mary trailers, saying it was a good bit of useful kit.)

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Kopfdorfer on November 20, 2019, 02:30:33 PM
Interesting,

I wasn't even thinking of making the crane capable of rotating in-game , I was just thinking of
FMB utility - the mission builders ability to rotate the crane head/turret etc within the FMB ,
independent of the facing of the truck object !

Now you have dug even deeper into the night crawlers !

Kopfdorfer
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: David Prosser on November 20, 2019, 03:01:26 PM
Goodidea. It will make good airbase eye candy.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 20, 2019, 03:53:59 PM
(As an aside my stepfather was in the RAF in the late 40's. He was part of a recovery team, recovering downed/crashed Meatboxes and Vampires in Holland and W.Germany.  He used to talk about using the Queen Mary trailers, saying it was a good bit of useful kit.)

Must have been interesting work for him and his team Shessi, let us hope I can do a decent model for you, you might be able to provide some material for the mission builders to work to and also take that trip down memory lane to those Airfix days of yours and actually see it move in game as well. :o

I was just thinking of FMB utility - the mission builders ability to rotate the crane head/turret etc within the FMB ,
independent of the facing of the truck object !

Yes Kopfdorfer, that is my intention.  ;)  The only way I can do that at the moment is if I provide the crane compartment as a separate object, raise it to the truck bed level and have it set about a centre point so you as the user of the FMB can rotate it about that pivot to face where you wish in relation to everything else in your scene, you would not necessarily need the Thorneycroft underneath but obviously something at the right height.  My dilemma is do I make the Thorneycroft complete and loose much of the detail or would you as a user be happy to assemble what could amount to four separate parts to make the whole vehicle.

Obviously I am proposing that method if you do not have the necessary DLLs that will allow objects to be joined with a hier and also be high poly. ;)

Once built I can look at the practicalities, it would of course be nice if the moving version could be coded in such a way that as the vehicle comes to a halt the crane rotates either left or right, oh, and maybe the doors swing open and we have a guy appear in the crane and one standing by the vehicle.

Look what you have done to me Kopfdorfer, I am going insane and having all kinds of mad thoughts also. 8)

Goodidea. It will make good airbase eye candy.

Glad you approve David, we can never have enough airfield eye candy. :)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 25, 2019, 03:38:17 PM
Not got much further since my last post but here you go. ;)

The rear has what seems to be a winch and below that a hook, there are differences from each image I have. o_O

Early development that still needs the hook adding:

(https://i.postimg.cc/524F76nB/Coles-crane-17.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dqRWJMN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YSVGC8kR/Coles-crane-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94dFxdDw)

The vehicle in Belfast looks as though some parts might have been removed, for restoration or otherwise I do not know:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pTjLsH8b/Thornycroft-Amazon-RAF-Recovery-Crane-UAS-2017-21-Graeme-Molineu.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbJNf400)

The image posted earlier of the preserved vehicle in York has what looks to be a complete unit so that is what I went with, my
drawing only shows the winch.

(https://i.postimg.cc/K89jzQFV/Thorneycroft-Amazon-Crane11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhywN2hm)

Then there is this weary looking example photographed in Malta:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qB95fd3D/1947-thornycroft-amazon-wf-swb-coles-mk7-crane-s-8563malta-marsa.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Those that found their way into civilian use would I think have suffered the ravages of time and use and most likely modified
to do whatever task was necessary by their owners so it is most likely the Elvington example is closer to specifications than
any other image I have to hand so that is how it will be. ;)

In the images above you can see how each vehicle has its own look, differences in fixtures such as mudguards and the rear
body all make for some head scratching as far as trying to replicate a WWII vehicle go, anyway, on wards we go. :D

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 30, 2019, 01:46:36 PM
Hello guys, I think I have assembled enough of the parts now that make up the winch and hook. ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RCpM1pwF/Coles-crane-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdbcpTCc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3Jy3tjZZ/Coles-crane-20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp68wDFy)

Many of the parts above will need to be replicated once I have them mapped, that will be a very
tedious task, I have made the attachment as complete as I can so it will most likely need to be
attached to the remainder of the chassis using the hier as the poly count will by the time I complete
it be rather high.

The intention is to first of all build as good a representation of the whole vehicle as my ability allows and
once that is done I can worry about getting it in game, it is first of all a modelling project, secondly a
game asset if I get that far. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 05, 2019, 04:16:57 PM
The rear contraption is finally done. :o

It does still need specific colours adding and a tidy up:

(https://i.postimg.cc/43hy5dKG/Coles-crane-21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GBdb3bJg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/D07znPxf/Coles-crane-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6hCyKrL)

With that more or less sorted out I can now move to actual construction of the cab, mudguards and wheels. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 12, 2019, 02:55:17 PM
Hello guys, just a quick update of this slowly evolving project. ;)

I tidied a few things up and altered the mapping to use two textures, the chassis and the frame with
hook and winch were enlarged and grouped together on one, with the start of the body on the second:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8MjhwQ/Coles-crane-23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPxhSRx7)

I am looking at a few additional pieces that will also go on the chassis texture, here is the development of
the front steering, I think they are motors driving a cog that rotates the wheels but I need to find some
further references to confirm that:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd0dcptP/Coles-crane-24.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NK2tc2R7)

Alpha cut holes are now added to the angle iron at the rear:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QMzNyhcJ/Coles-crane-25.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJ9qJFyX)

The axles now all have a disc and hub, the wheels will join to these as a separate mesh I think as the
poly count for the chassis is now at the mesh limit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cJC4hrtJ/Coles-crane-26.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyhcfG4h)

I would like to start the cab next and things such as the mudguards, they will go onto the second texture.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 16, 2019, 12:40:12 PM
Hello again guys, just another quick update. ;)

What looks to me to be part of the steering system now complete as best I can using the photographs
from the Graeme Molineux site:

(https://i.postimg.cc/JnHksvyh/Coles-crane-27.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJFZDCPV)

Yes I know, getting carried away and trying to add a little too much maybe, however, it all should add to
the finished model I hope.

In game separate object attached using the hier:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zf6LY7dY/Coles-crane-28.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bG0YQxcm)

Still trying to get the hang of smoothing with the rear contraption, not too bad now I think, no very
shinny areas, anyone got a tutorial:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vHb4ycvT/Coles-crane-29.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNVXzf9n)

I can now finally move on to the wheels and cab and then hopefully it will start to look the part. :D

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 18, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
We have wheels. ;)

I did some alterations and made new discs and added the hubs to them so they became a separate mesh no longer part of the
chassis but attached with the hier.

Next up six wheels were made, four for the back and two different ones for the front.

Here we see the new hubs and one of each wheel type under construction:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xT9gnyNF/Coles-crane-30.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QVncq7bp)

rear ones have now been mapped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VL4g6rjs/Coles-crane-31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCjBSLRN)

Here all are mapped but still need a dedicated texture making to add hub and tread detail:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hjFbw9qs/Coles-crane-32.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y43WLL0L)

Test pieces in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HL89B6Fj/Coles-crane-33.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZY8KshV)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 22, 2019, 09:54:31 AM
Hello guys, just another quick update. ;)

Struggling to make and align some decent believable tread at the moment, but it is there finally
even if not quite joined up as such:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnWk4r2D/Coles-crane-34.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnY3hJsz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HWND3h7G/Coles-crane-35.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqwDZGRG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tgk86SHM/Coles-crane-36.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKKDycCR)

I don't want to dwell on this particular aspect too much as it really needs a decent painter, as does all my
stuff, however, I need to get things as close as I can. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 26, 2019, 04:13:39 AM
Well, onward and upwards we hope. :D

After trying to get various treads to fit from photographs I made my own so I could at least align things with
some accuracy in the 3d program, here we have  different for front and rear although I think I need to widen
the pattern for the rear for now it stays as is, I need to move on:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9FNvyB89/Coles-crane-37.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzkPgbVM)

Mudguards, at last we have some of the items that begin to actually identify what it is and make it look
the part:

(https://i.postimg.cc/brwBtG1L/Coles-crane-38.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQbmFg6Z)

Now enough of that silliness, must be time to rescue a tin from the fridge, or is it too early yet? :P

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 28, 2019, 04:11:10 AM
Work is now ongoing, slowly but surely and the beast starts to emerge from the drawing. ;)

This part is difficult to see in photographs, there is one each side, it extends from the mudguard and has
what appears to be a eyelet at the front to attach a wire that holds the crane hook in position
when the vehicle is moving:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMqN0QS3/Coles-crane-39.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBrJvNnJ)

I simplified the structure, the real one is what seems to be a piece of angle iron with panels added
that is open at the end, other than holding the eye and the lamp I am not sure what else it does.

First steps in constructing the drivers compartment:

(https://i.postimg.cc/1tWyj19Y/Coles-crane-40.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJXVSD4q)

Engine cover and radiator as separate items and each has a internal face as does the driver compartment.

I could have left it as a solid part but opted to break it down so I can detail the engine area as well:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RhNvrphC/Coles-crane-41.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSnGmKY1)

Blocks made to allow the cut outs for windows using the Boolean method, also the mudguard
needed to have some material be removed that entered the cabin:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sDbgzz5k/Coles-crane-42.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJ7hLwTd)

The glass is in and the opening windows at the front added as separate items, the cab required some
material removal to accommodate the front wheels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/YqvCT0LN/Coles-crane-43.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yNKv90T)

Back and front views:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9fYmyqs2/Coles-crane-44.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KK4h24Zp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/L8f66WTn/Coles-crane-45.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DmjLJsh)

The front lamps need to be made and the supports for the rear mudguard then some detail adding to the cabin before mapping
of the work undertaken so far.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 01, 2020, 03:00:04 AM
Getting carried away as usual. :D

Detailing the cab, drivers controls:

(https://i.postimg.cc/P58QFFZW/Coles-crane-46.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1gN12wM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jSsfYxD4/Coles-crane-47.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mt5kQGNP)

The real deal:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vH4rcS0J/Coles-crane-48.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bqM4ZRn)

Hopefully I will finish this sometime during this New Year. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 11, 2020, 10:25:11 AM
Hello again guys, yet another quick update. ;)

The parts for the main body are now constructed, just one item in the case of mudguards and
anything that requires two of, I will map one before cloning to make the pairs.

Drivers seat and a basic seat in the centre, there will be a clone of the drivers seat after mapping
that will occupy a position at the opposite side and slightly forward:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nc6LvdBn/Coles-crane-49.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBv9CvTH)

Front lamp, the hook eyelet has also been altered after finding a clearer image:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGzqDgTJ/Coles-crane-50.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75tFPs0K)

Drivers mirror:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKybKrg2/Coles-crane-51.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcnD6b93)

Fuel tank with one of the straps and the cab foot step:

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1D0kXVC/Coles-crane-52.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xc5rhTCD)

Brackets to hold the rear mudguard in position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4SjfSFF/Coles-crane-53.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B88djTC4)

There are a few small details I am deciding whether or not to add but time has come to begin further mapping
I think, this will take some time if I do all the small details for the cab now rather than later. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 14, 2020, 11:58:22 AM
Here I am again, just a few more images for you. ;)

Cab mapping is done inner and outer as is the radiator but awaiting some colour:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BvCGtsmb/Coles-crane-54.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yWqcM5Q)

Inside the radiator and a strip for the engine cover:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QNvN28wZ/Coles-crane-55.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqQzfBvg)

The mesh is a texture, maybe later I might try alpha cut holes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mkzq3GyQ/Coles-crane-56.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9x0Zg5z)

Cab and glass altered to have opening doors:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8c78yvNf/Coles-crane-57.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLBy0h4t)

I extracted some of the larger parts to see how things looked:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvLcxXhk/Coles-crane-58.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xpj6kzJ4)

Development team at work with the prototypes:D

(https://i.postimg.cc/QMmRhmMW/Coles-crane-59.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqqyVzLH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SsKHs9X1/Coles-crane-60.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtSw47QD)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 18, 2020, 03:51:48 AM
Hello again guys, just another update, hope you are not getting bored of them, unfortunately illness makes for
slow progress but doing this helps keep me sane though so on we go. ;)

The larger parts such as mudguards are now mapped, however, the various brackets that would hold
them in place on the real thing are made but still require mapping:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tTrb0PfQ/Coles-crane-61.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pp89YLT2)

Moving on to some of the smaller assemblies, inner and outer wheel arches here and the guard at the front
that holds the hook eyelets:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cJ0GrXGG/Coles-crane-62.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sM6NLP2T)

Room on the texture is now sparse as seen with placement of the last two parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/B67r73LJ/Coles-crane-63.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k68YDkvH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZgyHjcN/Coles-crane-64.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jDd1v3RW)

It might be that I need to reduce the overall dimensions for all the mapping but at the moment I am trying
to get the last of the major parts into the existing areas still free. o_O

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 22, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Getting there, adding some large and small details. ;)

Those fuel tanks seem to be such a prominent feature of this vehicle along with the large wheels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/LsTwPmzJ/Coles-crane-65.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7h5PPNF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rzXQbH16/Coles-crane-66.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2D62pCb)

Eyelets for the crane hook traveling straps with headlights and cab mirrors:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FKH5DfFy/Coles-crane-67.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YvZsSCW0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfpHg8WK/Coles-crane-68.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Th6Bm1HW)

Cab step with frame:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tgXmp8Lp/Coles-crane-69.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyckk2zc)

Take care.

Wishing you al;l the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 25, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
Hello again guys, just a few more images for you. ;)

The exterior of the Thorneycroft itself is essentially complete now the various mudguard brackets have
been mapped and painted to match:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wvhFF3wd/Coles-crane-70.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0wSwy6h)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjzyDswv/Coles-crane-71.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/470h4zQd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/L6yDxc3h/Coles-crane-72.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Whk03fKP)

Some actually have a rack on top of the cab and that will be done eventually, also I intend to make a
simplified replica of the engine.

Moving into the cab now with mapping started on the seats:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fLhf3DDq/Coles-crane-73.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t12xw01F)

Decided to change the colour to better reflect those in the preserved example in Belfast:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DzGcy8kb/Coles-crane-74.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DW2Gxfz2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hx44XRLY/Coles-crane-75.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcnyCS5R)

There are still many preserved examples roadworthy here in the U.K., many of them have over the
years been kept in beautiful condition by private collectors as well as by traveling fair ground drivers
who seem to love these graceful old vehicles:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L5xt0PfG/Coles-crane-76.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHBHsGpQ)

One type seen in almost all traveling fairgrounds as well is the Foden in its many guises, I was lucky
to see the very last of those come of the production line at Leyland some years ago, so sad when
you see the end of production and see them end their days in a museum. ::(

We I think almost always associate the Thorneycroft with the recovery set and its Coles crane,
however, a quick search through the internet shows it had other uses as well:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxjj4tqQ/Coles-crane-77.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vH8XLY9p/Coles-crane-78.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Once I finish mapping and painting the cab I might post a link to the vehicle so far although it is
without lods and will only be a static model for now you can then actually take a look at it in the
flesh so to speak and pass comment on the work so far, could be a few days yet though. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 26, 2020, 12:21:19 PM
Hello again guys, just a couple more images from ongoing work. ;)

I missed this in the last post, yet another possible option for this versatile truck, and to think
all these years I only thought it came as the crane combination:

(https://i.postimg.cc/d3m51rvN/Coles-crane-79.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Hy62KYp)

First fitting of some of the cab furniture in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NgPWBs6/Coles-crane-80.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svBPphdr)

I was not sure how to represent the height adjustment mechanism for the seat but eventually went
for a box using alpha cuts, not too bad I think:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BZxYM9D5/Coles-crane-81.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wt1w1y5t)

Only realised yesterday that the engine cover has detachable sides so I thought I would try it out and
at the same time have them placed on the floor propped up against the truck:

(https://i.postimg.cc/B62gYH8Z/Coles-crane-82.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZCW71t8)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: cgagan on January 26, 2020, 11:13:49 PM
Digital modelling at its best! Keep up the good work mate,  8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 27, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Digital modelling at its best! Keep up the good work mate,  8)

Glad you like it so far Costas, thank you very much for the kind words, really appreciated. 8)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on January 27, 2020, 12:21:15 PM
Doors open, panels off...that would make a perfect "dead" version which I in my little Stuka would gladly attempt to make happen.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 27, 2020, 01:03:00 PM
Doors open, panels off...that would make a perfect "dead" version which I in my little Stuka would gladly attempt to make happen.

::(

I have not finished building it yet and already someone wants to damage it. :D

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 28, 2020, 12:45:19 PM
Hello guys, there is now a link in the first page to the WIP so far. ;)

There is still much work to do but I am uploading the project so far so you can have a look at it
and comment on possible errors or other changes.

You can modify this as you like to create your own projects, this vehicle was the base for many different
vehicles that include troop carriers, articulated trailers for liquid and others to carry cargo, they have
also been used by many private individual collectors and drivers from traveling fair grounds in the UK.

Not for commercial use without permission but I have no problem with it being converted to other game
formats, many have allowed use of their models for us to convert to IL-2 standard so feel free to do
likewise if needed.

This is the unit so far, the crane has still to be built:

No Lods.

Only as a static object for test, I will later add the java to make it move.

No damage model, that will come later.

Basic paint work and templates for different meshes used in construction.

All information necessary to use the download is in the first page and the readme.

The following images are the work on the cab that bring the project up to what is in the download link.  :)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2ygDc2y5/Coles-crane-83.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnCXdCjy)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tgDHQXJw/Coles-crane-84.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVVHWPxv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7LqyWCHS/Coles-crane-85.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75tcCZTL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mD5fk8QS/Coles-crane-86.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJMFFGpk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mk1xHCjW/Coles-crane-87.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JH8dwySp)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on January 28, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
Congrats Pete, Very nice and detailed work 8), I can't wait to try it out!

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 29, 2020, 06:01:36 AM
Congrats Pete, Very nice and detailed work 8), I can't wait to try it out!

Best regards,
Piotrek

Thank you very much Piotrek for the kind words, really appreciated. 8)

I have uploaded the work so far to see how it behaves in other peoples game version as it is as well as to gain some feedback on how it looks so far.

When you make something like this over a long period of time you are seeing it regularly and there are most likely things you overlook so it is good to
have some fresh pairs of eyes give it a more subjective opinion as it is very hard to be critical of your own work sometimes so it is good to have it
viewed from a new perspective and help you remain grounded. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on January 29, 2020, 10:27:16 AM
Not to demand any changes but I found some pics of one in Malta that shows the crane extended, a blue livery, caution stripes on the front bumper and a variant cab design.  Just FYI

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRn884Sk/thornycroft-amazon-wf-swb-coles-mk7-crane-s-8563malta-marsascala.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tTYcL3qg/thornycroft-amazon-wf-swb-coles-mk7-crane-s-8563malta-marsascala.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HLj3xTfZ/thornycroft-amazon-wf-swb-coles-mk7-crane-s-8563malta-marsascala.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

they came from this site:  http://miliblog.co.uk/?cat=102   search for Amazon
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 29, 2020, 12:14:25 PM
Hello jpten, thank you very much for the images, really appreciated, you can never have enough information. 8)

I already have the bottom image in my info folder, as you see that vehicle has substantial changes to the R.A.F. version
I am doing, maybe someone else might want to build that using their own 3d with parts from my model, would be great
to have a number of different versions, the one restored in York also has many changes as do some of the civilian trucks I have
images of. ;)

The length of the crane in you photographs is interesting, I did not know the boom could be extended, certainly not to that length
anyway so that is valuable information to have to hand.

Before I go on to build the Coles crane itself I have still have some detail parts to add to the steering wheel
in the cab, these are nearly all made but still need mapping:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0yXXvPJR/Coles-crane-88.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hr594G2B)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N0yJfS1y/Coles-crane-89.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VS8BK7Z1)

The bulk of the whole vehicle is largely done now, hopefully the crane will not be too big a task, there
is also the engine I want to add as well. :o

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 01, 2020, 04:02:48 AM
Hello again guys I think I am finally finished with the steering column, got a little carried away I think though.  :-[  :D

Here it is mapped and painted and added to the sim:

(https://i.postimg.cc/28G0PmHR/Coles-crane-90.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VqdWpR2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JtZt1R3/Coles-crane-91.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HV75xQXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zsm9vJM/Coles-crane-92.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WdLZJh71)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxVFP3CJ/Coles-crane-93.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8J0Jk55D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/V69qnBpQ/Coles-crane-94.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BL6PGDJM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FHqV4K3q/Coles-crane-95.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XBC5bPq)

There will still be missing items I am sure, however, time to build the crane me thinks. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 02, 2020, 12:46:38 PM
Hello again guys, been experimenting with the radiator today, not sure which one I prefer. ;)

Slightly larger alpha holes two pixel one set above the other:

(https://i.postimg.cc/NfXVCsWS/Coles-crane-96.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svVwvrf4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nVjwMVcr/Coles-crane-97.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhn05BmR)

These are just a single pixle;

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9Z49z2X/Coles-crane-98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MM0Z3RQR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Kc6pTXRN/Coles-crane-99.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgGGf5ch)

The latter I think looks more closer to scale, the first the holes a little too large, any thoughts please?

Alternatively the previous painted version, however, I think alpha holes do look better.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on February 02, 2020, 12:57:51 PM
To me the two pixel look better. (If the is the first picture above)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 02, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Hello Flying H, the first two images show the two pixel inside and out of the radiator, the second two the single pixel. ;)

It is difficult to judge for me, the larger grouping of pixels means you see more of the metal around the holes, the smaller
seems more to scale, however, it seems as though you loose something visually because of the small size, maybe I can
find a middle ground, all is still experimental so hopefully I will find a solution to suit all tastes.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mixx on February 02, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
Nice model Thorneycroft! You developed it in great detail.
Congrats Pete!

Are there many polygons for model?  ...Two pixel look better
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 03, 2020, 02:48:47 AM
Nice model Thorneycroft! You developed it in great detail.
Congrats Pete!

Are there many polygons for model?  ...Two pixel look better

Thank you very much for your kind words Mixx, really appreciated. 8)

The model at the moment is a series of meshes held together with a hier, not just a single object in the normal IL-2 way and requires the
classes from Andrew to make it work, if I attached all the parts together to create a single object the model would be way above the old
3000 polygon mesh limit.  The chassis itself is nearly 3000 polygon, the steering column with the additions shown in a earlier post is just
over 2000 polygon.  :o

I got a little carried away detailing things I think. :D

The project began as purely a 3d build, trying to replicate the vehicle as well as I could with my limited abilities, adding it to the game was
a secondary objective, thankfully those files Andrew released will allow me to both build a detailed model as well as add it to the game, a
win, win situation. 8)

This is the third experiment for the radiator grill:

(https://i.postimg.cc/m26j0Zhb/Coles-crane-100.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7f0Szkgc)

The small holes done with one pixel can cause some visual anomalies so I think you and Flying H are
right to prefer the first version with larger pixel holes. ;)

I will be building the engine block eventually so wanted to show the fan that cools the engine and so
embarked on the experiment, worthwhile I think to give me and you all a good idea of what can be
achieved.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on February 03, 2020, 05:26:38 AM
Loving the process Pete, good work fella!

Made me larf about grill size...dust cap colour or washer fluid density next maybe.....?  :D

Joking aside, good that you're into the detail in that way, and I would say colour/texture the grill first (black or main vehicle colour) and see what it looks like then. See the Maltese Thorney, hard to see I know, but being black and not very see through it makes me think that the two pixel would look better as the single pixel looks too see-through, and in reality from a short distance away it would look almost solid, after all it has to stop stones etc.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 03, 2020, 06:54:33 AM
Made me larf about grill size...dust cap colour or washer fluid density next maybe.....?  :D

Now don't get me started. :D

Probably the only way to have the grill looking like the original would maybe to use a photograph of
the original, however, that would not allow the effect I want so I am still tinkering with various ways
of using the alpha channel.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sxs3Wb46/Coles-crane-101.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkNMPHXr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pdjv6P0c/Coles-crane-102.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FTxFggL)

The real thing, as you see a little difficult to replicate with the paint tools I have:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j5rTVBmx/Coles-crane-103.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HpTLKfT)

Colour of the radiator and its grill varies with each photograph, basically I am using the R.A.F preserved
example above as a guide, the one under restoration in Belfast is in the Green and Black Army scheme
that is applied to the grill as well and various civil versions are all Black, plenty of choice once I settle
on the final schemes.

That will obviously be the R.A.F Blue/Grey for the static object but for the moving version I could actually
do a desert version as well with maybe a separate slots for Army and civilian versions, who knows. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 05, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Hello again guys, a little progress update. ;)

I decided to try and replicate the vents on the engine covers. :P

And so it began, slowly but surely, the outer parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0yLmYTkq/Coles-crane-104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVfJZgSH)

preparing blocks to do the Boolean cuts into the engine cover:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wx0mfyq2/Coles-crane-105.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9Tt9psT)

So far so good, I cut each one individually, tedious but saved any issues with joining all the blocks
together and cutting:

(https://i.postimg.cc/LstqzhQz/Coles-crane-106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kV5XCMm4)

Testing the outer part up against the panel:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hGWzzVsD/Coles-crane-107.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4YPNj7jq)

Mapped and painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/t4Vn4Bhv/Coles-crane-108.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JsMzTcYj)

Added door handles and hand holds to doors and engine covers:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vBG4XMCC/Coles-crane-109.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGFYwXyR)

First test in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yq0mJrjH/Coles-crane-110.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLV5frzg)

The outer vents are attached to the cover with the hier, the poly limit was too high to attach both sides
and make the complete unit as one mesh:

(https://i.postimg.cc/G2zH5VCt/Coles-crane-111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R66S3Pqx)

However, the detached panels were separated into left and right and the vents attached to each:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPY7nk77/Coles-crane-112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hf9Gb3sS)

Sometime today or tomorrow I will upload a new link that incorporates all the changes shown so far. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 05, 2020, 03:46:30 PM
Hello guys, there is now a updated link to the ongoing W.I.P. in the first post. ;)

Please completely remove existing folder as there have been too many changes to note, some
parts are renamed and some removed to be replaced by new versions.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: mechanic on February 05, 2020, 10:23:47 PM
I must admit, it is a lot of fun to look over your shoulder as you build out this model. It displays nicely under observation in BAT 3.8.

0.7 MB    2020.02.06 05-12-08.jpg                  Check                                            Error                                                          0.6 MB    2020.02.06 05-15-50.jpg                  Check                                            Error
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RxzMmW3/2020-02-06-05-15-50.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWBMPWz1)

0.7 MB    2020.02.06 05-12-08.jpg                  Check                                            Error
(https://i.postimg.cc/0NfhHckt/2020-02-06-05-12-08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcPdP3FM)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 06, 2020, 02:22:31 AM
I must admit, it is a lot of fun to look over your shoulder as you build out this model.

Good to know you are enjoying seeing the build mechanic as I do it as well as being able to put it in game and follow it as it goes through
that process. ;)

The truck is in parts at the moment so you can create further variations yourself by moving parts around and altering the hier to make
your own vehicle and maybe suggesting ways to further improve things as I go. 8)

My approach comes from the fact I used to make a lot of scale models and loved to read through magazines where the authors took you
through the actual build themselves allowing you to see the detail inside and out, rather than just present the reader with the finished
artifact, I also wrote a number of articles myself years ago in the same way so have carried that through to my experiments with 3d modelling
in the hope I can learn myself as well as maybe show others how it is done. :)

The beauty of these threads is you can actively participate, asking questions or providing vital information that helps produce the final model
as well as hopefully learning a few tricks yourself. 8)

Next up is definitely the Coles crane part of the build, this is the defining area of the build that brings the thing to life so to speak, I will leave
the engine until last. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 06, 2020, 12:36:00 PM
And so on we go, the business end of the project begins. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/NFg0khfW/Coles-crane-113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9ysjy7b)

Civilian use:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xT1CkSZm/Coles-crane-114.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The Coles crane it could be said is the star of the combination, it was used on countless other
chassis and is I guess more famous in its own right to the Thorneycroft, however, Mr Airfix did
this version so it will be forever etched in the memory of us that built it back then and still do
as the Airfix Recovery Set.

Here are some of those other combinations:

(https://i.postimg.cc/660q5QMw/Coles-crane-115.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on February 07, 2020, 06:14:11 AM
Pete,
Thanks for the update.

Just thinking about the grill, it looks almost diamond shape in real life.  So why not try two pixels wide and one high, and see if that works?  Love to see a Matador crane ...;)

And you good ol' so and so, mentioning the Airfix airfield sets. Loved 'em.  Especially the Refuel set.  But also the Recovery and Emergency sets.  Those Roy Cross box top pics...brings a tear...ha! ]thumbsup[

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on February 07, 2020, 08:16:26 AM
Fantastic, Bravo Pete! The model from close up (and overall) looks very nice , it's certainly a lot of work, but the end result is impressive 8).

btw: I employed a few pieces at RAAF :).

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 07, 2020, 09:00:26 AM

Just thinking about the grill, it looks almost diamond shape in real life.  So why not try two pixels wide and one high, and see if that works?  Love to see a Matador crane ...;)

Hello Shessi, for now I have settled for the grill as you find it, I am concentrating on the crane from here on, there is a template with the model so you and others can take a look and do alterations as you wish to create something each of you likes, let me know if you create something appropriate. ;)

Once the crane is built it will be a separate part of the vehicle so there is the opportunity for anyone to create further vehicles such as the Matador as that particular model was widely used in many variations.

And yes Shessi, the Airfix box art was the inspiration then and still is for those of us with the creative urge, some excellent paintings on all the models they sold. :)

Fantastic, Bravo Pete! The model from close up (and overall) looks very nice , it's certainly a lot of work, but the end result is impressive 8).

btw: I employed a few pieces at RAAF :).

Best regards,
Piotrek

Glad you like the work so far Piotrek and have found a use for the model, once finished it should provide many options for scenery builders. 8)

Mapping has started on the Coles cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XNPpb1nT/Coles-crane-116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzS8GJ0J)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Vkq6XYX8/Coles-crane-117.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFMh3Z64)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3w3wBPZD/Coles-crane-118.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yDrB6ptV)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 10, 2020, 11:13:54 AM
Hello again guys, the tinkering continues of and on as I can. ;)

The crane cabin now mapped and doing a test fit of a driver, the soldier 3d is I think by wingflyr
from one of SAS~Epervier's vehicle packs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/brvsFVrQ/Coles-crane-119.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bPk1w46)

Buillding the components for the turntable for the crane:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4d2Jnf49/Coles-crane-120.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhnf5d3J)

The bracket to hold the contraption in place to the cab and the strengthening wedges around the base:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cJZ1bk5r/Coles-crane-121.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PC3kLyHj)

I need to try and repaint the soldiers to match their new employer, the R.A.F.:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L8FmJ0SN/Coles-crane-122.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fBkTBfq)

Wedges in position and mapped, the round objects are the wheels to support turntable rotation:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GmvhznKW/Coles-crane-123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/185Q5TLB)

Control box for the crane cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfFx54NR/Coles-crane-124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDfMP5rr)

Bolts in place:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zDMzrGcm/Coles-crane-125.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23QRdrYT)

The real deal, the unit under restoration in Belfast:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvMZvh61/Coles-crane-126.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzpfjSMr)

The various rings that make up the turntable are next for mapping as is the bracket to attach the unit
to the cab.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 13, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
Hello again guys, a further update. ;)

Mapping the turntable for the Coles cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QdPRMtGn/Coles-crane-127.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMYn632p)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6Qn15fhy/Coles-crane-128.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyGxdTSc)

Mapping done and trying to make sure it all aligns:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MHWLLfVX/Coles-crane-129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrV4r67c)

The Coles cab and its turntable ready to extract:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PJ27nfQy/Coles-crane-130.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ctthQSjt)

In game, the upper ring has no top as normally it will be hidden so it looks odd looking at it from
this angle:

(https://i.postimg.cc/LXVCj4wS/Coles-crane-131.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgrBSWdk)

Cab and drivers compartment:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6pDmXmnk/Coles-crane-132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sM4cPKnm)

Well, it is coming together nicely, next up the actual crane boom, that should be fun and games. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 14, 2020, 10:27:10 AM
Hello guys, there is a new link in the first post for those of you following this ongoing project. ;)

The Coles crane cab shown under construction is now included, both on the existing two vehicles
with a third added for testing with a separate version of the crane unit.

Some images:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGgZYgZT/Coles-crane-133.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZc0jHCS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2yDzsvZN/Coles-crane-134.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJxksS6x)

A few possible uses once this unit is complete:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SNmSV64W/Coles-crane-135.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmY3wb8Z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NG6G1N3s/Coles-crane-136.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhGqn046)

(https://i.postimg.cc/13t91yfX/Coles-crane-137.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdxyjQ9P)

You get the drift, I was having one of those moments. :D :P

Take care.

Wishing you all the very6 best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Zflyer48 on February 14, 2020, 10:48:32 AM
Looking very good, Pete. Like me, you go where the Muse takes you.

Best Regards
Mike
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 14, 2020, 12:41:49 PM
Looking very good, Pete. Like me, you go where the Muse takes you.

Best Regards
Mike

Absolutely Mike, I consider this as therapy for my health issues, it keeps me focused, I go where I feel the need and do it in dribs and drabs as I can and eventually with luck and application I should get there. :D :o

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 17, 2020, 11:19:42 AM
Finally made a start on the cranes iron work over the weekend. ;)

The boom is a construction of various sizes of angled steel all welded together and of various sizes
rather than a solid single entity pivoting above the cab and using a rod or pulleys to move it up and
down:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jqvFmRQB/Coles-crane-138.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3W41D5qZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WzQrCD9M/Coles-crane-139.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQ1f7GRj)

The real thing:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mrLwQ5tC/Coles-crane-143.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DkZ21PQ)

Decided it was time to make a slot for this to set things up ready for when it is finished, eventually
I will most likely have three versions, R.A.F., Army and Civilian each with summer desert and Winter
folders I think. ;)

Moving , moving, racing a tank: :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQ5WJ5yJ/Coles-crane-140.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1yf6Tk4)

Stationary:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6Q0rqp3X/Coles-crane-141.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwxXBd8S)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gj5qpt0L/Coles-crane-142.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKQWkb1j)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 23, 2020, 04:04:33 AM
Okay, enough playing around in the FMB blowing shit up, grow up Pete. :D

On we go with the project. ;)

Mapping and paint done for the crane support arms:

(https://i.postimg.cc/P55QFf3w/Coles-crane-144.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bhSzvqk)

This is a indicator of some sort, the dish mounts on the boom while the pointer and its parts are on the
arms as far as I can see.  The real thing has writing on the dish that I cannot make out but most likely
has a scale that indicates height and the weight the boom can stand during a lift:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bnb2BYb5/Coles-crane-145.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4YCKJ1zn)

Construction of the boom begins:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jC7ch7n/Coles-crane-146.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQfJGyyQ)

The intention was to do one side and then mirror that once mapped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7Ymg78HY/Coles-crane-147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLZkPfZz)

These are the bracing plates along the boom:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T2jjd5Bb/Coles-crane-148.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bt6PNbSZ)

And the angle iron bracing pieces, really awkward to make these as they have angles cut at the ends
rather than just a straight cut through to cut it off a longer length:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvK0Jxzx/Coles-crane-149.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJ1QZ7Qv)

Underneath, you will notice in the images a copy of the long booms this is just for alignment and will
be replaced by the complete side in construction once mapped and mirrored:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6qKdVB4T/Coles-crane-150.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6j6q3cd)

Mapping the bracing parts, all will be mapped as separate units and then brought together later for
placing of each mapped section on the skin:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wT6X7TdG/Coles-crane-151.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmMJNh0r)

As best I can I am mapping the main faces that will be seen top, bottom and each side for placing on the
skin template so any camouflage pattern should be okay, some items though will need to be placed off the
boom images as they are seen from the front and back.

This part of the build is proving particularly tiresome as they need to be mapped from different viewpoints,
the thinner edges are incorporated into the larger faces for ease of working and the particular face mapped
back and front together as most of those face are inside the boom they will just use the colour on that outer
face so it should not be a issue with the camouflaged versions, at least I hope not. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 24, 2020, 03:40:56 PM
Now starting to look the part, slowly but surely does it. ;)

Checking the various faces of the boom to make sure things where as I intended:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Gt1YRxTT/Coles-crane-152.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwZCQNXR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nLy9KGkS/Coles-crane-153.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJtLd5Fb)

There were some issues with those out of the way the proper colour is added:

(https://i.postimg.cc/y8rZxHSH/Coles-crane-154.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXTjZNry)

I exported it once and there was a light issue, sorting the re set X form had given some issues due to
the way this had been constructed and so some faces were the wrong way around but with a little
tinkering and swearing it turned out okay:

(https://i.postimg.cc/C1bBcnrh/Coles-crane-155.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrLk6vcp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mZQCwJKY/Coles-crane-156.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zQDX8m0)

The boom now needs all the other bits and pieces making with the cable reels and hook to be sorted out
yet but thankfully all that girder work is finally out of the way. 8)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on February 25, 2020, 02:08:00 PM
Looking good.  The boom over the cab would be good for a moving version but for static objects will there be a boom at 90 degrees to the chassis?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 25, 2020, 03:05:23 PM
Hello jpten, glad you like things so far. 8)

The current build includes the crane cab on its own as a separate object and that has been set up to pivot around a centre spot so can be placed anywhere, you will see it in some of the earlier images on its own and positioned and turned on one of the chassis, once complete the intention is to have separate versions of that cab with a raised and lowered boom so you should be able to position things to work in most situations. ;)

See here:

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,62807.msg697523.html#msg697523

The download in the first post has that cab but the boom was not done when I posted, however, if you install you will get a idea of what I hope the final will be like.

I will also have to make some different sling varieties to replicate varying loads, what exactly they will look like is as yet unknown, getting the primary vehicle finished is first up, with that out the way I can look at the situations it would have been deployed in and what loads it might have carried.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 27, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Hello guys, there is a new link for you in the first page. ;)

Please completely remove the existing folder as I have now changed it from a pure object folder as it includes the java for a moving version as well as the objects.

I have now added a moving version.

There are raised and lowered versions of the crane boom, however parts still have to be made to complete it.

New entries need to be added for additional folders, see each file within the folder.

Updated templates.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0NNzp8Hq/2020-02-27-21-06-47.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZW1YmhSf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mk7kbhh7/2020-02-27-21-09-20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/m12BjLYr)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Zflyer48 on February 27, 2020, 05:17:39 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8ssVCzB/Excellent.jpg)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 28, 2020, 10:26:35 AM
Glad you like it Mike. 8)

I needed to take a few days away from building for life and health reasons so thought I might as well post up progress so far so those following progress can get a idea of how I want the structure of the folders to be.  There are various options, enough I feel now, that show the Thorneycroft vehicle in various forms, all you need do is add the crane version of choice, maybe I will add one inbetween the high and low although maybe not really needed.

New additions now will involve finishing the crane boom and its cables and pulleys, following that the engine still needs to be started, however, I feel there is enough of the project together to allow users to mess around with various configurations of their own, they can attach things with the hier so there might be existing objects or parts of other things that could be added.

Not sure when build will start again, hopefully soon, I cannot manage the pain it decides if and when I proceed, fuck I hate this insidious condition.

Anyway, stay tuned, I will be back on it, meanwhile enjoy tinkering with what is there for now.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on February 28, 2020, 01:05:14 PM
Fantastic! Thank you for your hard work, Pete. 8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0Q4WLcNS/Thorneycroft0.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 29, 2020, 02:42:11 AM
Fantastic! Thank you for your hard work, Pete. 8)

Best regards,
Piotrek

Glad you like it so far and are finding a use for it, once I get around to making the rest of the crane items it will really look the part but you get the idea of developing yourself by adding the trailer.

There are a lot of separate parts in the pack at the moment that will be consolidated with other items into larger meshes up to the polygon level but things like the front mudguards and the engine covers I will leave as small meshes to allow for there use in dioramas as a detached part during maintenance and such, it is still developing so ideas are always popping into my head. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: SAS~Poltava on February 29, 2020, 03:16:39 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/rF7C13Zz/app55940357.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Thanks for yet another GREAT add-on, Pete!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on February 29, 2020, 04:36:24 AM
Hello Pete, The thought of adding a trailer came up spontaneously :), and I have no idea if such a combination has ever been used, although it probably doesn't look bad :P, I'm glad you're still improving your model 8), so I have a question : would it be possible to put e.g a plane wing on the crane rope in the future? it is doable?

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 29, 2020, 06:23:52 AM

Thanks for yet another GREAT add-on, Pete!

Glad you like it so far Peter, not quite finished but the download shows where I am going with it. ;D

I have a question : would it be possible to put e.g a plane wing on the crane rope in the future? it is doable?

I wrote something a few posts back about intentions Piotrek, the plan is to add slings and loads, however, at the moment not sure exactly what although I want to make the Queen Mary trailer and cab so wings and things will be a necessity then I think. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on February 29, 2020, 06:51:56 AM
Thank you for your response 8).
Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on February 29, 2020, 10:25:28 AM
"...I will also have to make some different sling varieties to replicate varying loads, what exactly they will look like is as yet unknown.... I can look at the situations it would have been deployed in and what loads it might have carried."

The first thing that i thought of was from when i was working on the Battle of Britain FMB mission making templates (BAT Pack: Operation Sea-lion) and I learned about the various "Dumps" that the RAF created during the Battle of Britain.   Various 'Messerschmitt dumps' 'Heinkel dumps'...etc were made where crashed German planes were taken to be examined by technicians for secrets and modifications.  I imagine vehicles such as this was used so sling loads of crashed He-111/Me-109/Ju-88...etc parts would be appropriate loads for some scenarios.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: David Prosser on February 29, 2020, 12:48:46 PM
Sounds like a plan. Maybe two, or three versions could be made. One with a Bf-109 wing, and one each with a Spitfire, and Ju-88 wing for instance?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 29, 2020, 12:56:25 PM
The beauty of having those class files from Andrew to use is that it gives the opportunity to take various components from existing aircraft such as wings and fuselages without having to make them especially and add them to the hier of the crane and its slings so quite detailed loads could be made. ;)

Right now the build is the important focus for me, you guys can experiment while I build. :D

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 05, 2020, 11:49:29 AM
Hello again guys, a little progress report. ;)

Trying to figure out just how the crane itself works has been frustrating, one version seems to use a
bar of some sort to lift and lower the boom, others use what I assume to be steel cables.

Finding photographs of just what those cables attach to and how is proving awkward as most images
of truck or crane show it from low angles, nothing much from above so you can see into the crane cab
and the area around it.

This rough diagram is how I think things work, there appears to be a set of cables at the rear of the
boom that attach to cable drums on the floor of the crane equipment compartment that raise and lower
the actual boom, anther cable winch of sorts is at the side of the main winch drum and that works a cable
that moves up to the cable pivot, over a wheel there and forward to another wheel that I think keeps it
tight before it goes over the wheel at the end to attach to the hook assembly.

The hook assembly has another wheel as part of it and I think one end of the cable is fixed in position on
the boom with the cable then running through the wheel all the way back to the cab end, by moving the
cable I think the wheel for the hook just rolls along the cable thus raising and lowering it, I might be wrong
so if any of you know for sure please put a reply here to see how much of my speculating is actually any
good or not as the case might be. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/qqC3zhKT/Coles-crane-167.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/30YRqw9S)

Anyway, on to building what I can actually see in my images, the rear three wheels at the back of the
boom with one at the boom pivot and then on along the boom:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cJZM2mn8/Coles-crane-157.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsSxVFDX)

A rough estimation of the cable drums on the floor of the crane cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/F15JcrbJ/Coles-crane-158.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zH7BY1cJ)

Many of the wheels look to be a casting with holes in them and I tried various ways to replicate this
using some shaped blocks to Boolean cut out the holes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L5f3G0NL/Coles-crane-159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/308Gv9Mx)

First try left a lot of oddly cut holes probably due to the complex shape of the wheel so I cut it in two
and tried again:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sf8PsyWz/Coles-crane-160.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8sRfm2wX)

I gave up on that and started again in a different way, Blue wheel as just a ring including the shaping:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sXHYBC0p/Coles-crane-161.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJHJ7hQC)

Adding the separate parts to build up the look:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QMX10d2Q/Coles-crane-162.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhxh0wt3)

This box is half way along the boom and would appear to tension the cable as it runs along the length
of the boom to the end, the wheel is attached to that on a bracket and to the boom with another:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L8FzgTv0/Coles-crane-163.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn4wf3Cv)

Still not happy with the way the wheel holes looked I made a shape that used a curve at the end, the
ends will be hidden inside the other parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hvHVrbnv/Coles-crane-164.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HQK4cmR)

Coming together now with the spindle and parts of the bracket:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jd7Hj967/Coles-crane-165.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yk7gQLb1)

Here it all is, some parts will be replicated for the other side and a few other bits and pieces added:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vBT9wSHD/Coles-crane-166.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkX4nfTy)

The wheel shape is as near as my ability allows to what I see in photographs and will be cloned once
mapped to make a few of varying sizes for the other wheels, the rear ones though will be as you saw in
the early image as what appears to be three solid wheels, all have groves running through them for the
cables whatever design.

I will have to place cables as near to where they should be, however, without actual images to show me
exactly where you will have to accept a little artistic licence on those. :o

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 06, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Pete,
Thanks for the UD.

Those wheels are fine, no one is going to/can't zoom in that close to inspect your work, and sod-em if they think anything but great work! ha!

I had a trawl about to see if I could help..here are some links that give a better idea of the cable layout (if you've not seen them already)...

https://yorkshireairmuseum.org/exhibits/support-vehicles/aec-amazon-coles-crane/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/homer----simpson/3519693016

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tonyonthemoon/8365551202/in/photostream/

As you understand the one large wheel at the rear of the boom carrys the cables just for the raising/lowering of the boom (cyan/red writing) .  The raising/lowering of the hook is done by the smaller wheel at the boom pivot point (green writing) .  The front winding drum inside the base unit operates the hook and the rear cable drum does the boom.  The operator can work them together to achieve how high the hook is, through hydraulic worked drum clutches operated by the handles in the operators position.

You can raise the hook by either allowing the hook drum to pull up the hook, whilst the boom stays neutral and unaffected or can be raised at the same time so you get the double effect of boom and hook (same on lowering).  Or again you can raise just the boom and not the hook.

The cable for the hook goes from the cable drum to the idler wheel at the boom mid point, over the top of this idler wheel, then to and around the wheel at the hook end, and as you suggest is then fixed to a pivot point near the front of the boom (dk blue writing). This type of looped pulley system allows good control and more lifting stress is taken up by a longer length of cable around the front pivot wheel AND the hook wheel rather than a single point.  (Like a person using a block and tackle to raise something very heavy that they couldn't pick up directly themselves.)

I think the main lift is done by the boom, and light weight lifts or fine height adjustment is done with the hook.

It's a shame my step-father's not about I could have asked him!  Many years ago I remember seeing a couple of pics of him and his team recovering a crashed Meteor in Germany, but unfortunately I've no idea where they are now.

Cheers

Shessi
Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 06, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Hello Shessi, thank you very much for the links, really appreciated. 8)

Most of the information I already have it seems, the link to the Belfast project is what has provided most of the best information since the start of the project so I had put that link in the first page right at the start of the project just in case any model builders out there would benefit from it, also anyone following this build can see how I came to some conclusions as the build progressed.

Sad your step father is not around, I am sure he would have been a great source of anecdotes and practical help in describing things such as what we are looking at now, we will get there eventually, by hook or crook as they say.

Once the various guide wheels are mapped and I start to build the cables themselves it might be easier for me to focus fully on that area and find answers that elude me right now by tracing the route as I look to the various photographs, here is hoping. :D

What we need is a driver manual with plenty of pictures and descriptions.

There is a nice shinny model out there, another 3d fan, I have competition:

https://youtu.be/phl6HLnf-1s

Anyway, good to know you are still following the build, thanks again for the help.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on March 07, 2020, 04:17:16 AM

:o Incredible! Spectacular ... I can't decide if the most amazing work of art is the model itself or the tutorial of execution!
My stunned congratulations!

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 07, 2020, 05:25:41 AM
Hi Pete,
I'll have a look around for anything Thorneycroft.

These are what you really want...

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1500087301

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1500087283

Why don't you contact the Yorkshire Air Museum about their Thorneycroft, they proably have the info and books...https://yorkshireairmuseum.org/contact/

And regarding that new 3D model.  I saw it and after studying it, he has got the cable routing and operation completely wrong!  So it's not as good as it at first looks...(better than I could do though! ha)

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 07, 2020, 07:35:11 AM

:o Incredible! Spectacular ... I can't decide if the most amazing work of art is the model itself or the tutorial of execution!
My stunned congratulations!

Is that my tutorial and model or the YouTube one stanislao?  :D

These are what you really want...

I found those links some time ago Shessi and I am surprised they do not make a copy available for purchase, at least I cannot see anything!

Maybe the only way to see their records is to actually ask for a appointment and make copies of the information you require from the stored images they keep, sadly Health and finance keeps me at home at the moment so I cannot go there or the Yorkshire Air Museum, places I have visited in the past, if only I had known then I would one day build this particular vehicle. ;)

What is surprising is I have not had any hits on Ebay or similar places for any kind of manual for truck or crane for sale, many copies of Pilot notes can be seen but nothing of help to me. :o

I have never driven a truck, however, I was licensed for many types of fork lift vehicle through my work over the years and they would each have a individual manual available for the operator and you would think one also for those who maintain them, yet for all the private examples of the Thorneycroft and Coles no manual to be found anywhere except those at the IWM you linked. ::(

And regarding that new 3D model.  I saw it and after studying it, he has got the cable routing and operation completely wrong!  So it's not as good as it at first looks...(better than I could do though! ha)

The issue for me is that I have not been able to see a vehicle from above so it is hard to say how accurate that model is in respect to the cables, my own thoughts are that the cable would be free to move back and forth along the cable drum so having a cover with those small apertures seems unlikely, I would think the various cable drums would be exposed using the material they were made from and grease to protect the part with the motors housed under cover either side within the shell of the crane. :-|

The video and model though are certainly impressive, better than I can do also.  :(

Thank you very much again for your continued help Shessi, really appreciated. 8)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on March 07, 2020, 10:19:16 AM
Being British it needs to have a tea kettle hanging somewhere.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 07, 2020, 02:52:42 PM
Being British it needs to have a tea kettle hanging somewhere.

Ha!...yes J, I like the idea of that!

I know it's still a way off, but if you're up for it Pete, maybe do a 'working' version with tools, rags, jerry cans etc, and of course, a kettle!?

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: David Prosser on March 07, 2020, 06:27:15 PM
I agree, that's an excellent idea. Nothing like a nice pot of Yorkshire tea to start the day.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 08, 2020, 04:00:44 AM
Guys, already there but hidden from the sarge. ;)

The kettle, mugs and biscuits are always tidied away after use and put in the drivers cupboard
under the seat, he brews up while his mate operates the crane:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QCX1rf4P/Storage.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1njfGrZc)

We have to get our priorities right after all, tea fuels the world, nothing would get done without
a tea break.  :D

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 10, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
Hello guys, work has been even slower recently but here is the progress. ;)

Trying now to make the elements that are part of the boom and carry the cables, the box that holds
the cable wheel mid way needed a few brackets to hold the box and wheel in place, Grey bits:

(https://i.postimg.cc/P51wmDJV/Coles-crane-168.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJ65Snzj)

There is a long rod that extends the length of the boom to the box, I assume this activates something
inside so did what I could from Photographs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/1zPNMzNm/Coles-crane-169.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87K5zNH9)

I do not like having things in the air with no placement but cannot tell for sure just where the rod attaches
so I made a contraption of sorts to connect it to another length of rod that goes down to the crane cab.
My thoughts are that it could be a cable like you would find find on a bicycle for the brakes, a strong outer
shell with a moving cable inside that once pulled activates the rod to the box and moves something, what,
who knows but I had to take in consideration the booms movement so just imagine the two rods are connected
inside the contraption somehow. :D

The other thicker  Green coloured cable is the conduit for the electrics to the box, the cable moves through
it and then down the crane arms to the crane cab, a few clips hold it in position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Fz2YSF4Q/Coles-crane-170.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lg34Kp5y)

I cloned the cable wheel I already had to make the others along the boom and to what will be the hook, the
rear three are a simplified version that has the cross arms removed and a cylinder running through all three,
this helped with space so I could have all of them individually mapped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/d1NkqmN3/Coles-crane-171.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k68Xs8mP)

A closer view of the electric cable and the rod connector with all mapping done:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y044jGT3/Coles-crane-172.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHrDcBzb)

I have a hospital visit tomorrow so the procedure I have could put a hold on things for a few days but
when I can carry on the cables and their drums are next up along with the hook as well as a few control
boxes and their wiring on the arms to hopefully bring the crane itself to a close. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on March 10, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
Can the rod be some kind of security stop to keep pulling the hook too high and strain the cables?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 11, 2020, 07:13:04 AM
Can the rod be some kind of security stop to keep pulling the hook too high and strain the cables?

Certainly a possibility Flying H, I cannot rule that out for sure as I do not have anything definite myself. ;)

Here is a photograph from the link of the Belfast restoration:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLD1mn48/Coles-crane-173.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJ2HGXwT)

As you can see the rod itself is very thin, however, there appears to be a thinner part inside that attached
to what is some kind of nut which is why I thought of a small cable in there.  The rod seems to be part of a
long metal plate but I cannot tell if any of the parts actually move although on another photo there is what
could be a pivot/screw at the bottom but it is unclear.

It could be some kind of electrical circuit also or alternatively carry some kind of lubricant although I think
too thin to carry any large quantity of liquid, hopefully some time before I finish the model some of these
questions might have a answer.

There are things in the driver cab that seem unique to this vehicle as well, it is proving to be a fascinating
subject to model.

Did any other of the combatant nations use similar vehicles or is this recovery set combination unique?

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on March 12, 2020, 04:18:11 PM
My best guess is that it is simply the transfer assembly that switches the motor direction (reel out/reel in) when the operator shifted the lever.  The world was very much more analog back then.
On another note I found a link to a pdf of the Airfix model's indtructions.  https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/7/0/109370-32-instructions.pdf
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Sikshoota on March 12, 2020, 05:30:16 PM
Hi All

I might be off the beaten track with this, but here's what it looks like to me.

It appears to be a solid actuating rod (controlled by the operator) that is connected to either a Brake or Clutch Lever (probably Clutch?) by way of an Angled Ball Joint (shown with lock nut).  A common control method used on that era of machinery.  Admittedly, I'm unable to see the other 'Operator end' of this so I may well be wrong.

If it is as I believe, then it would need to be a Solid Rod Linkage system from the Operator through to the section shown in Mission Bugs pic.

Here's some examples...

(https://i.postimg.cc/QVLz8f16/36427719205-bef7a1a8c4-z.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Gh8B6qXW/F5-LL1-FWJ6-MGITNV-LARGE.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Hope this is useful info...?

Cheers
S'
Sikshoota

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 13, 2020, 05:24:06 AM
My best guess is that it is simply the transfer assembly that switches the motor direction (reel out/reel in) when the operator shifted the lever.  The world was very much more analog back then.
On another note I found a link to a pdf of the Airfix model's indtructions.  https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/7/0/109370-32-instructions.pdf

Hi All

I might be off the beaten track with this, but here's what it looks like to me.

It appears to be a solid actuating rod (controlled by the operator) that is connected to either a Brake or Clutch Lever (probably Clutch?) by way of an Angled Ball Joint (shown with lock nut).  A common control method used on that era of machinery.  Admittedly, I'm unable to see the other 'Operator end' of this so I may well be wrong.

If it is as I believe, then it would need to be a Solid Rod Linkage system from the Operator through to the section shown in Mission Bugs pic.

Here's some examples...

Hope this is useful info...?

Cheers
S'
Sikshoota

Great ideas guys, thank you very much. 8)

Could be any or a little of all, certainly a control lever of sorts, the photographs from Belfast show a rod going back down to the crane cab but nothing can be seen of whether it joins the one along the boom so I had to assume they were connected hence my contraption, hopefully believable. :D

A clutch makes sense to steady the progress of the cable because the way the cable and wheel are where they are seems to indicate that wheel might be there to take the strain by pushing down onto the cable and transmit it along the load.

Hopefully one day the Belfast team might release a book of their restoration of this vehicle and answer some of these questions and put us out of our misery, until then speculate away guys it gives us things to consider as I build.

I have had a go at creating the cables, here is my set up from looking at various photographs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PJhBpZfn/Coles-crane-174.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGH2trys)

Closer view with mapping started, that piece will be cloned and take up the next two positions:

(https://i.postimg.cc/c4FVCrVP/Coles-crane-175.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcbsFTjP)

The cable is made from a torus, it creates a ring inner and outer and I reduced it as thin as possible
to try and match the wheels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HkKR0FW2/Coles-crane-176.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts3BpSxZ)

The basic shape had a section removed and the vertices pulled down into position on the lower pulley
drums.  A section was used to also make the end of the cable where it goes to the end of the boom,
this shown in Red polygons was then welded to other sections some inverted as for the hooks wheel
and some stretched out from other parts of the cable.

My version is most likely wrong, however, without firm information it is the best I have for now and so
I will continue the build as it is while continuing the search for better information. ;)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 13, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
Hi Pete,
Ha great this isn't it?!

Yes I think S has nailed it, it is a unversal ball joint (UBJ).

The electrical cable could possibly carry cable speed and issued length info from something inside the boom-box (do you remember those!! ha ha) to the operators consul??  And possibly the rod with the UBJ linkage on is an emergency cable speed/length controller connected to the drum, if the cable speed rises above or length reaches a certain point it automatically stops the drum, or if the operator tries to lift something above the max lift weight of the boom (early strain gauge), or the boom is above or below a certain angle??

Or I could be talking a load of crap and totally wrong!  o_O

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 14, 2020, 08:57:51 AM
Hi Pete,
Ha great this isn't it?!

Yes I think S has nailed it, it is a unversal ball joint (UBJ).

The electrical cable could possibly carry cable speed and issued length info from something inside the boom-box (do you remember those!! ha ha) to the operators consul??  And possibly the rod with the UBJ linkage on is an emergency cable speed/length controller connected to the drum, if the cable speed rises above or length reaches a certain point it automatically stops the drum, or if the operator tries to lift something above the max lift weight of the boom (early strain gauge), or the boom is above or below a certain angle??

Or I could be talking a load of crap and totally wrong!  o_O

Shessi

Maybe one day we will have a definite answer Shessi, for now I think there is merit in all the suggestions so far. 8)

Anyway, on we go, mapping of cable done:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtpBYL5z/Coles-crane-177.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJ1Tq46G)

First of all I tried a cable texture, however, it did not really show the detail so I just made it a single
colour:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3R7rRk4L/Coles-crane-178.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1SGvCzP)

Finally extracted a few test meshes from the 3d program, there were a few alterations needed but
here are the first images in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMgJzVqd/Coles-crane-179.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcFFNK5P)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1z1sC8H9/Coles-crane-180.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jDcpCdm9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kGY7fwjZ/Coles-crane-181.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0KmgNG1d)

The hook still has to be made, I will alter the parts seen above for the raised boom once that is finished
because there have been a few alterations along the way to the boom and arms that means replacement
of those already in use so I might as well do that with everything complete for now it was enough to see
how things looked so far to determine any alterations necessary. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 19, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Hello again guys, finally the hook has come together, the truck now has the tools of its trade. :D

Construction begins:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yYWtD0w6/Coles-crane-182-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The body is not a solid part but two plates and some internals:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qR3XfMYT/Coles-crane-183-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Mapping started:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z7M5L9Q/Coles-crane-184-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

A image from the Belfast restoration to compare, near enough I think:

(https://i.postimg.cc/kXPHMDxD/Coles-crane-185-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Into the game to see how it looks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mDtrrmW3/Coles-crane-186-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Making a start on the cable drums:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jq3zv1jT/Coles-crane-187-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I have been trying to post some images for days now but no go, I resized these and all okay, WTF. o_O

Must have hit a wrong button in Irfanview somewhere along the line since last I uploaded. :o

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 20, 2020, 01:05:21 PM
Hello again guys, here are the remaining images from the current WIP that I was unable to post earlier in the week.  :)

Mapping done for the cable drums:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0QzsVtzW/Coles-crane-188-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

And painting:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLGVrnKg/Coles-crane-189-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Into game for a test run:

(https://i.postimg.cc/YSjZ7vtj/Coles-crane-190-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sx89pgtH/Coles-crane-191-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Small control boxes found on each side of the crane support arms:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MK5tPz1T/Coles-crane-192-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5thmYyWP/Coles-crane-193-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Painted up and into game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cJnRSWtf/Coles-crane-194-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Kvjgbbd4/Coles-crane-195-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I have borrowed a couple of driver figures from a SAS~Epervier vehicle pack, by wingflyr I think, and have
slightly modified them to fit the Thorneycroft and Coles, hope those guys do not object:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZXsFKd4/Coles-crane-196-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Tonight is to be used to fit these in the models in game so hopefully another WIP upload will be available
over the weekend sometime so you guys can see the changes in your own install. ;)

Take care, be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: vonofterdingen on March 20, 2020, 02:35:34 PM
This is incredible, Pete.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on March 20, 2020, 02:54:35 PM
amazing work, lots of details and small parts :o, Bravo Pete! 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 21, 2020, 08:19:30 AM
This is incredible, Pete.

amazing work, lots of details and small parts :o, Bravo Pete! 8)

Thank you both for the kind words, really appreciated. 8)

There is now a updated link in the first post for you to download and try, please report back
any issues you find. ;)

As before please remove your existing folder and replace with the latest as there have been numerous
changes, far too many to list.

As indicated last night I added some figures from a existing pack suitably modified to fit.

I made various to occupy different crew positions and you will have to alter them for your own needs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gj32sN7F/Coles-crane-197-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The previous test damage model has been replaced with this, however, I still need to do the 3d and texture
work to make it a proper damage model so this is a placeholder:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Vk4M8kkr/Coles-crane-199-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I made some alterations to the driver texture to make it more like something a engineer might wear, this
involved using the clone tool to remove the existing straps of the soldiers uniform and changing the colour:

(https://i.postimg.cc/s2vBCPLq/Coles-crane-200-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Hopefully it now looks more like the crew have what we know in the U.K. as 'boiler suits', a coverall
usually worn by fitters and such in the engineering and building trades of the day:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CBYDWrd/Coles-crane-201-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The above alterations are incorporated into the update I added today. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Plowshare on March 21, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
You know, I keep up with this thread to drool over you ability to make all these 3D objects then knit them together into a model; you make it look effortless.

A thought I keep coming to is: With 3D printing getting better all the time I bet you could make a plastic model of this to put on your mantel and show your friends. What a coup that would be. Shoot, anyone can buy and build a store-bought kit but this that you're doing is akin to what, back in my model railroader days, would be called scratch building.

Keep up the great work.

Bob
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on March 21, 2020, 02:15:03 PM
Hello Pete, Thank you for all the hard work you have done here, Thorneycroft Coles works fine and looks better and better with every update. 8)

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 22, 2020, 02:57:36 AM
You know, I keep up with this thread to drool over you ability to make all these 3D objects then knit them together into a model; you make it look effortless.

Thank you for the kind words Bob, really appreciated, making this has been a long hard slog, you should see some of the mess I do not post and if you look closer at the model you have there is much that needs improving.
I tinker with 3d and eventually get close to what I think it should look like, I see what some professionals and guys here do and it is breathtaking compared to my efforts but it is keeping me sane and is very rewarding all the same. 8)

Scale model building and drawing where my staple diet for years but life issues and health pushed them into the background, I do this now, never actually fully scratchbuilt a plastic model myself, however, I converted many Airfix aircraft,tanks and other vehicles using some excellent guides put together by master modellers, maybe all that and many more excellent 3d tutorials has helped me in creating these objects for us in a digital format. ;)

Hello Pete, Thank you for all the hard work you have done here, Thorneycroft Coles works fine and looks better and better with every update. 8)

Good to know you are enjoying it so far Piotrek1 and all is in good order in your install, enjoy. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 22, 2020, 05:27:03 AM
Hi Pete,
Fantastic!  Looks superb and works really well, fun to use something different in game... ]cheers[

A very minor comment, I'm not saying never, but the crew would be more likely wearing side/forage caps or possibly berets than tin helmets.

Ahhh the model conversion, remember the conversions in the Airfix Magazine or Tamiya magazine...plasticard and the whiff/highs of tons of good ol' Airfix glue...ha ha.

Thanks

Shessi

p.s Forgot to say I emailed the Yorkshire Air Museum a few weeks ago about conversing with someone about the restored crane they have, the so and so's haven't even bothered to acknowledge the contact!!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 22, 2020, 06:39:52 AM
Hi Pete,
Fantastic!  Looks superb and works really well, fun to use something different in game... ]cheers[

A very minor comment, I'm not saying never, but the crew would be more likely wearing side/forage caps or possibly berets than tin helmets.

Hello Shessi, glad to know you are happy with the ongoing updates. 8)

I retained the helmets because I figured as it was a working vehicle and possibly a wartime environment there might have been similar safety requirements then as there are now in regard to objects falling from height and lets face it the stuff those guys recovered would be a little worse for wear after having taken war damage and the resulting crash landing. ;)

If any of you prefer something else then many of the objects in game should be able to furnish other soldier figures to provide something more to your individual tastes, I used these as a way to position a crew and save you the job, please be aware they were positioned in the 3d program so anything else you add will most likely require you to place them correctly with the hier.

p.s Forgot to say I emailed the Yorkshire Air Museum a few weeks ago about conversing with someone about the restored crane they have, the so and so's haven't even bothered to acknowledge the contact!!

Unfortunately this is a common issue when it comes to research sadly, however, what you need to bear in mind is that in many instances these museums are run by volunteers who already have day jobs and families but devote time to preserve our heritage for free, giving their knowledge and talents for all our benefit. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 23, 2020, 04:10:14 PM
Pete,

Ha ha..health and safety, and risk assessment in wartime...love it!   ;D

Appreciate that they are probably but few volunteers...but they had a question application form to fill in (which I did)..so they obviously support queries.  Anyway with the situation at the mo, I'm not bothered...ve vill see!

S
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 24, 2020, 03:42:41 AM
Pete,

Ha ha..health and safety, and risk assessment in wartime...love it!   ;D

Appreciate that they are probably but few volunteers...but they had a question application form to fill in (which I did)..so they obviously support queries.  Anyway with the situation at the mo, I'm not bothered...ve vill see!

S

I took a look at the 3d model of the soldier Shessi, under the hat there is no head.   o_O

He must have been late putting on the hat. :D

Sorry, I am in that sort of funny mood this morning, lock down and all that, world in chaos, you know how it is. ;)

To change the hat it would be necessary to make a section to fill in the hole and then map it, there would then be the challenge of making the hat you suggested, right now I have more important areas of the build to sort out.  Using the tin hat will not be wrong as such, certainly they would have needed them on airfields under attack and in the wider context fire crews in old films are seen with them so I can live with it.  Cloth hats would have been worn at parade and maybe whilst driving, other than that it was wartime.

Unfortunately posting images is proving almost impossible at the moment, I got a few up late the other night for another thread but no go yesterday or so far today. :( ::(

The cable that holds the hook during travel is being made, I have already adapted the hook itself by raising it up to to the boom and altering the cable accordingly to angle the hook.  Last night I made a start on the eve and bolt that holds the cable between hook and the front of the vehicle to steady it, need to do the cable itself and map the new parts and that will be one more job to strike off the list.

(https://i.postimg.cc/j5rTVBmx/Coles-crane-103.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HpTLKfT)

Take care, be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: PO_MAK_249RIP on March 24, 2020, 08:47:56 AM
Wow i am amazed how you guys do this stuff! Its like a black art! This is gonna look bloody fantastic when skinned
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 24, 2020, 10:39:28 AM
Wow i am amazed how you guys do this stuff! Its like a black art!

Yes we are from the Dark Side. 8)

This is gonna look bloody fantastic when skinned

It already is.  ::( :D

There is much still to add so a final template is a way off yet PO_MAK_249RIP, I take it you meant finished skin. ;)

Right now I am avoiding getting to deeply involved in painting other than just mapping and colouring what I build so there is a place for each part
on a template, lines and markings will come once all is final unless someone else makes something first, however, that is unlikely while I am building and continually adding stuff.

Take care, be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on March 24, 2020, 11:42:04 AM
From many pics I have seen it seems the cable to secure the hook is just a common lifting sling.  The vehicle would probably be loaded to carry such a cable for lifting loads and to use it also secure the hook during movement rather than carrying two separate use cables.  I have seen pics using chain or steel twisted cables.  The pic you posted seems to be using a double strand cable.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 24, 2020, 12:47:24 PM
Hello jpten, the cable is done and essentially represents a single cable that has a loop at each end secured with some type of ferule say, this will be attached to what can be described as a metal half ring with holes where a bolt is pushed in one end and the thread wound into the opposite threaded hole, this will secure the loop at each end of the cable, hard to describe but unfortunately even by reducing image size it is proving difficult to post pictures to better explain what I have done. ;)

Similar to the image I posted but only a single cable with loop each side, running from one attachment up to and across the hook and back down to the opposite side of the radiator before attaching to that side with another eyed bolt, not sure of the proper name I tried many and eventually typed in eye and bolt to find something that helped me make the meshes.

I prefer to use images as they bridge language barriers even if your explanation does not come across those looking in can usually grasp what you are talking about, unfortunately we are where we are.

Take care, be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 25, 2020, 06:15:43 AM
''This is gonna look bloody fantastic when skinned''...I chuckled at Pete's reply, poor Pete.  But I know what PO_Mak means, a tex with weathering, a used look etc.

Pete,
No, looks great as is, absolutely no need to change anything about the crew (except the head!), huge effort already.....just wanted to show you something...he he he...don't beat me!

(Found this Queen Mary trailer with a whole Stirling fuselage on it!!)

Cheers

Shessi
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4NMWbRV/4538069153.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnhzx5z/Royal-Air-Force-Operations-in-Malta-Gibraltar-and-the-Mediterra.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SKWBfZDC/large-000000.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxYCdFh9/0ecf101b76c91deb94dc94bb50b9590f.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 25, 2020, 07:55:47 AM
just wanted to show you something...he he he...don't beat me!

You certainly need beating Shessi, really really hard, seriously though, good will to all and so on and so forth. :D

Great images, thanks for posting, really appreciated. 8)

Amazing just how large a load the Queen Mary trailer can hold and I cannot believe just how high that boom can actually be elevated, surely it has no real use that high. o_O

Anyway, to keep you out of mischief maybe you can find a few more images out there that show various lifting combinations as I might do some next after I finish mapping the windows. ;)

The traveling sling to hold the hook and alterations to the various parts concerned with it are done and in game, unfortunately I am having issues posting images so cannot show you the work so far unless I zip those images I have saved and give you guys a link, depends how bored you are right now I guess. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: PO_MAK_249RIP on March 25, 2020, 08:13:11 AM
As you both state yep i meant when it has proper RAF markings etc as opposed to the blue in the screenshots.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 25, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
Hello again guys, managed to upload some images finally, not sure what was the issue but anyway. ;)

It was necessary to shorten the hook cable and alter the angle to fit the travel cable:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MHmQ1gcG/Coles-crane-202-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Bits were cut out and others added before welding the vertices once it was shaped as I wanted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vH81pqgW/Coles-crane-203-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Getting there:

(https://i.postimg.cc/WzN3cz32/Coles-crane-204-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Here is the issue I tried to explain to Shessi, to change the head wear would require a little surgery:

(https://i.postimg.cc/R0wV3KJS/Coles-crane-205-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Hook done in its new position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XYCnhd8f/Coles-crane-206-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Construction of the fixture that would attach the travel cable to the vehicle:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dt7Fkrgb/Coles-crane-207-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Construction of one end of that travel cable:

(https://i.postimg.cc/P5GgCcWD/Coles-crane-208-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

All assembled and mapped just needs paint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gc1zKgyz/Coles-crane-209-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Into the game and fitted to the Thornycroft Amazon vehicle:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xjNYqLwW/Coles-crane-210-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ss202pvW/Coles-crane-211.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

So far so good even if my cable is a little clunky. :D

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 26, 2020, 06:47:53 AM
Pete,
Clunky...not at all, all the cables look superb, nice even curves.  Yes, you could a chuck a load more polys to get absolute perfection, but you would only notice the difference zoomed right in (and who needs to do that!).

I love the detailing you've done, the shackles, the main hook gear apparatus, and even the different thickness of the travelling tie cable to the hook gear.

I mean, even Gmax has it's limits, but still old and capable (v1.2 in 2005!) in the right hands.. ;).......that last pic is one smart crane.

Look at this!  Just found them (if you haven't already). Go to these pages, scroll down to the Thorney, and you can double zoom in and around in superb detail..https://www.flickriver.com/groups/894896@N22/pool/interesting/

Cheers

Shessi

p.s Yes strange, I found the same problem with attaching multiple pics, had to do one at a time.

p.p.s Just found this newer Airfix box lid from 2011, the original is nostalgic, but this is a pretty good update.

(https://i.postimg.cc/c4995QfF/999958-11453-84-720.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 26, 2020, 02:57:33 PM
Glad you are happy with the new detail Shessi. 8)

Even though the model was started as a separate project from IL-2 I tried all along to keep each mesh within those normal parameters of the game to avoid getting carried away, it also meant that if nothing else I could add the moving version and its stationary, thankfully the class files that Andrew posted have enable me to upload the model as objects as well so all is good. ;)

I think it fair to say it has now gone the opposite way to how I intended things at first and is now a IL-2 project first and foremost, so much for my cunning plans, I cannot leave this game alone. :D

There is a image of a scale model out there that shows the Thorneycroft towing a Scammell trailer, I cannot find any information of a real one so have to assume it is one of those what if projects, thing is I am going to make a version of the truck with a fith wheel for trailer towing, who knows when all this will end. :P

Thank you very much for the link, there are some amazing old lorries in there, maybe other projects in the future if I ever finish this one.

Not much done this last few days except for mapping the glass:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxGv7qJ5/Coles-crane-212-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I have enlarged the mapping and set it up on its own texture:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HL30pGR2/Coles-crane-213-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Looking through other vehicle projects in my install I found a upgrade of textures for the Kubelwagon done
by our resident artist Max, he had set the car windscreen on three separate sections for summer, desert and
winter with the dirt and such cleared away by the wipers, looks good, my attempt most likely not but I will
give it a go.

That reminds me I need to add a wiper to the drivers window. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 30, 2020, 04:29:44 AM
Hello again guys, got bogged down trying to sort the glass out but did get there eventually. ;)

Managed to make a rather simple wiper, only drivers side from what I see in photographs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dVWTntt6/Coles-crane-214-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The alpha layer for the tga file and its tga:

(https://i.postimg.cc/X71VzZdr/Coles-crane-215-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

In the 3d program:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nznbzZq8/Coles-crane-216-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Into game, from the front:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLk3jzJy/Coles-crane-217-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0b5Xv5LZ)

Looking from the back into the cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxgPCQvJ/Coles-crane-218-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I was trying to avoid a pristine looking glass and have been messing with this for a few days now and managed
at least to try and replicate the wiper having cleaned some dirt off the window, the drivers side I tried to do
as if a cloth had been used by the drivers mate. :D

To say I have never quite got alpha channels is a understatement, after much tinkering I achieved something
at least using two shades of grey on the alpha channel, this stuff is really Black magic and there does
not seem to be much information about it, at least for IL-2 anyway. o_O

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 31, 2020, 04:54:55 AM
Hello guys, there is now a new update in the first post. ;)

As of the last few days I have developed artistic block or whatever you describe it as so in the meantime
I decided to post the work so far shown in the previous posts.

Please completely remove the existing folder you have as there have again been numerous changes.

Next up will be to fill this space with the engine, might take some time:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9xkqqW4/Coles-crane-219-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

So still to do:

Make the engine.

Do a proper dead model.

Complete all templates.

Do the Lods.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on March 31, 2020, 01:31:26 PM
Hello Pete, I have ThorneycroftColes installed and running flawlessly in my game and I would like to say that I admire what you have achieved so far in the field of creating objects and I am grateful that you share your hard work with us, I wish you much health and further success.

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 31, 2020, 04:15:36 PM
Hello Pete, I have ThorneycroftColes installed and running flawlessly in my game and I would like to say that I admire what you have achieved so far in the field of creating objects and I am grateful that you share your hard work with us, I wish you much health and further success.

Best regards,
Piotrek

Good to know it is working for you Piotrek and thank you very much for the kind words, really appreciated. 8)

The whole point in any form of art I think is to share it with those who like and have a interest in it, never did like the
thought of things kept in vaults or just on a private individuals hard drive, no fun in that. ;)

In between trying out a few missions in various installs you will be happy to know
I actually made a start on the engine parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/655tW8HG/Coles-crane-220-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This project is keeping me interested because it feels like I am making a large collection of smaller individual
models rather than one thing, each section has its own unique look.

Between each section usually it takes a while to make a start on the next, however, once you take the plunge
things develop a life of their own and it takes hold of you and makes you want to carry on through to the next
part of the project. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on April 01, 2020, 05:22:17 AM
Hi Pete,
Like the blancmange engine..lol

I appreciate you do the same and may have/seen these pics already, but here are some to possibly help the effort..

https://www.ulsteraviationsociety.org/thorneycroft-amazon-colescrane

Now this is interesting as this is the LWB version of the 7t TC crane, easy conversion for you if you fancy that, but shows the restored engine.

Also couple of (not too good) pics..

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7cFg3rS/20111019233411-6acdc446-me.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tCBMRXV5/c82c6dc50ae0cbc89d59764cf33345b4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BntwXdTG/imageproxy-php.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvyczkkD)

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 01, 2020, 06:19:08 AM
Hello again Shessi, thank you very much for the links, really appreciated. 8)

I have one of the Salvu transport images, second one, and the long wheel base model as well.

Until you posted the link from Ireland of the restoration I had not realised that was a long wheel base version, in the link
I made available in the first page it is hard to tell, I actually thought they had two vehicles because I have seen similar
images to the one in your link but the number on the windscreen confirms they are the same vehicle.

The web page they provide from Belfast does not show some of the work shown in your link, it has moved forward and
is coming together quite nicely.

As for doing the long wheelbase that will have to be a project for another day, like the articulated vehicles, unless some
new modder with a 3d program wants to cut their teeth on stretching mine and adding the cupola in the roof, they are
welcome, that is why the WIP is posted up to hopefully encourage others to join in and post any further variants in their
own thread and/or paint new textures.

It seems to me the long wheelbase are actually army versions, certainly from photographs I have seen they all appear to
have some type of camouflaged, not sure on that though.

Anyway, work continues, the fan shroud and what I assume some type of water tank are shown:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pLWVQ8bQ/Coles-crane-221-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Your image from the Irish restoration came at just the right moment as it gives me a shot from above, the
one in my image comes from the link in the first page and shows things from a lower viewpoint. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on April 02, 2020, 04:40:59 AM
Hi Pete,
I'm not sure if you have all the TC crane walkround pics by Mr Molineaux, as your second pic is one of the series...if not, fantastic engine detail shots to use...

I've also never seen or noticed a LWB TC crane, but the 1/144 model above is depicted in RAF use, roundel on mudguard, so maybe all forces prob including the RN used them, as they were so capable for their size?

Re engine, yes on top the header tank and radiator, with radiator shroud. The tank/heater matrix on the side with grey water pipe, is possible taking hot water to a cab heater or even a hot drinking water tap?  Most water cooled tanks in WWII had this to allow brews/food to be made or for washing.

Cheers
Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 02, 2020, 06:48:48 AM
Hello Shessi, the link you post is the same as at the start of the thread, dated 2017, the one you posted yesterday obviously contained more up to date images, looks like the team do not bother much with their original link but at least images are still to be found of the continuing restoration, maybe those photographs are from newer team members or invited guests.

The original link has been the source for nearly all the detail work so far, irrespective of the wheelbase much is the same although
the image you posted yesterday helped with the shape and positioning of the parts I just made today so all information is useful,
please keep posting images of what you come across it is surprising how each image can provide just that little something that is missing. 8)

I've also never seen or noticed a LWB TC crane, but the 1/144 model above is depicted in RAF use, roundel on mudguard, so maybe all forces prob including the RN used them, as they were so capable for their size?

Sorry, never noticed the roundel, blame my age, maybe I need new glasses or my attention span is waning. :-[ :D

The engine block mapped with some parts from previous areas used and modified to make the two top tanks and what
I assume would be the piston cover below them:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fLJ61ShJ/Coles-crane-222-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Not very good with the naming convention for the truck parts as you can tell, I spent many years in the
traction industry so more used to trains and their parts. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 05, 2020, 07:28:12 AM
Hello guys, not done much over the last few days but here it is. ;)

The engine fan has quite wide blades that are rotated slightly, here is my effort:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pTZtVy1g/Coles-crane-223-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Because there are moving and static versions I thought I would try and make a part to represent the
rotating one:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zfFZzVyT/Coles-crane-224-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I messed around for days trying to use alpha channels for this but was unsuccessful in doing what I envisioned,
the idea was to try and use a faint alpha colouring to produce the rotating blades but I could not replicate what
I did for the windows, there I used two different Grey colours on the alpha channel to get different shades with
the blades it would be visible or not with nowhere in between:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KzYMQ3LN/Coles-crane-225-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Maybe the glass mesh treats alpha shades differently and is set somehow in the mat file, anyway, I abandoned
that and just opted for a painted look in the end:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RVrbpwCG/Coles-crane-226-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Maybe I am over complicating things with this and should just use the actual fan as in most cases it will be
obscured by the engine covers, I was trying to have it so the user could decide if the static vehicle in their
scene has the engine turned off or not.

Still unsure as to whether or not the crane uses a independent power system to do its job or if it requires
power from the Thorneycroft engine, so many questions still to answer. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on April 05, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Hi Pete,
I think you'll find the crane is a twin or even a triple electrical motor powered crane.  Looking at the NI restored LWB TC crane, at the rear of the crane platform pics you'll see two large electric motors, and there may be a third buried in the middle(?).  They power, via UJ shafts to two small gearboxes to the front of the platform. It looks like the RHS one does the raising and lowering of the boom and the LHS one does the hook.
The possible middle third motor may swivel the crane platform, as there seems to be a small gearbox on the floor in the middle with a UJ shaft running to it. The electric motors would be powered from the main driving engine generator and batteries.

If you look at the underside pics all four of the rear wheels are driven and there doesn't appear to be any PTO drive to a hydraulic pump or gearbox there.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 05, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Hi Pete,
I think you'll find the crane is a twin or even a triple electrical motor powered crane.  Looking at the NI restored LWB TC crane, at the rear of the crane platform pics you'll see two large electric motors, and there may be a third buried in the middle(?).  They power, via UJ shafts to two small gearboxes to the front of the platform. It looks like the RHS one does the raising and lowering of the boom and the LHS one does the hook.
The possible middle third motor may swivel the crane platform, as there seems to be a small gearbox on the floor in the middle with a UJ shaft running to it. The electric motors would be powered from the main driving engine generator and batteries.

If you look at the underside pics all four of the rear wheels are driven and there doesn't appear to be any PTO drive to a hydraulic pump or gearbox there.

Cheers

Shessi

Cannot argue with your summation there Shessi, it does appear to be the case. ;)

I had a photograph that showed a large finned cylinder, reminded me of a industrial size electric motor, at the back of the cab somewhere between the cab and the crane deck but aligned at what I thought to be a rather odd angle, cannot find it now sorry to say, always the case.  Possibly it was off another project in the depot where the restoration is being done, it did not look like part of the drive but then if it had been disconnected who knows, if it was a motor it only made sense if it was used for providing some kind of energy transfer between the engine and the rear of the vehicle and that is why I wondered just how the crane was propelled.  There is another similar object in the link possibly under the crane deck but it is hard to tell.
As you point out there are ample devices on the crane itself to do the necessary work of lifting and powering and from what can be seen under the vehicle only the drive parts we would expect.

Anyway, I will stop trying to analyze things and just build from here on in. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on April 06, 2020, 05:04:57 AM
No, no Pete,
It's great asking questions and finding out things, very interesting (to some! lol), and we need things to keep the grey matter churning over, at this time.

A lot of people eat pizza, but most don't have a clue what goes in it or how to make one, we (and others) like to know why and how etc.....each to their own!

It would be interesting ito see f this could be made into a 3D printing model?

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 08, 2020, 04:16:22 AM
No, no Pete,
It's great asking questions and finding out things, very interesting (to some! lol), and we need things to keep the grey matter churning over, at this time.

A lot of people eat pizza, but most don't have a clue what goes in it or how to make one, we (and others) like to know why and how etc.....each to their own!

It would be interesting ito see f this could be made into a 3D printing model?

Cheers

Shessi

True enough Shessi, just not sure my Grey matter functions that well these days, maybe it never did. :D

Not sure about 3d printing my model, that is one for the experts to take a look at, I do not know much about it to be honest
although from what snippets of information I have seen it is certainly a wonderful invention, even helping with this current
pandemic as well by helping produce PPE. :o

Maybe you could pick up the Airfix model and do some super detailing using the references available to us in this thread. 8)

Anyhow, not much to report on my model, things are going really slowly, not sure exactly where to start on engine detail
or how much to include, I just keep looking at the photographs and leaving it for another day. :( o_O

But there is something, I added the fan spindle using some existing parts suitably adapted and the mapping
moved to the Thorneycroft template:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nzhCPMP9/Coles-crane-227-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The mapping is extracted from the 3d program using Lithunwrap, here I am erasing the areas not wanted so
it can be merged into the map for all the other parts so far created:

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2L1cXwy/Coles-crane-228-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

And done:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yW4fjq8x/Coles-crane-229-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I will do the pulley itself next and its belt then move on to the engine block parts. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on April 08, 2020, 01:44:29 PM
Don't forget to remove the rotor from the distributor on the static models so they can not be used by German parachutists.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 09, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Don't forget to remove the rotor from the distributor on the static models so they can not be used by German parachutists.

Will remember to tell the driver to remove anything he can and stuff it in his gas mask case, but you know those
paras are crafty sods, they will find any way to avoid walking. ;)

Maybe I should just leave the engine out to make sure the buggers do not move the Thorney on to a active runway
and cause mischief for our homecoming pilots. :o

Work continues on the engine as I try and do what I can with the photographs I have, some things are not clear to
see so expect a little artistic license and guesstimates as with no actual drawings or a maintenance manual I will
only get it so so.

I have started on the easy side, not much here but blanked off ports, I assume the engine casing/block can be adapted
for both left and right hand drive with little work involved to meet customer needs, here I am putting in place the lower
spindle for the fan and the castings that hold the working parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HxgV1jjG/Coles-crane-230-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

A little further on, I cannot see exactly how the casting is made but looks to be all a continuous unit that has elements
on the opposite side so I will have to make each side first and decide later how it all fits together, or not as the case
may be:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7Yn3b8Sr/Coles-crane-231-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 13, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
Hello again guys, hope I find you all well. ;)

The engine detailing has continued during our enforced incarceration. :D

The castings that hold the working parts in place are not fully clear in the photographs but I have given it a go
and put the various nuts and bolts in place as best I can:

(https://i.postimg.cc/TwcZvrhg/Coles-crane-232-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Mapping is progressing here:

(https://i.postimg.cc/90L00Rgq/Coles-crane-233-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Some alterations and additions to the fan and its components:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RCtz0nyr/Coles-crane-234-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Mapping finished of the work so far and awaiting extraction:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6pfZxqtn/Coles-crane-235-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Into the game to see how it looks so far:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yq4871sg/Coles-crane-236-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Other side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBVTBRGc/Coles-crane-237-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

With the rotating version of the fan added:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wMKmXm9y/Coles-crane-238-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Plowshare on April 14, 2020, 06:30:18 AM
For those of us that fly USAAF there's a use for this vehicle:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26850128@N07/27274868185 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26850128@N07/27274868185)

And this works great for me as I'm in the middle of making a campaign for the 322nd BS 91st BG out of Bassingbourn!

Keep up the great work; we're all looking forward to this.

Bob
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 14, 2020, 11:19:55 AM
Great photograph Bob, just shows the close cooperation there was and still is with the Americans, many varied and interesting possibilities continue to present themselves for me and the mission builders, thank you very much for that image, really appreciated. 8)

The vehicle is more or less complete in the link in the first page already Bob, so can be used now to actually prepare your missions, all I am doing now is further detailing but it is in a usable state just needs refining a little more with lods, dead meshes and a good skin. ;)

I just looked back through the thread and it has taken roughly six months just to get to this stage, even with all the detail already added I still see many months ahead to actually finish things to a state I will be happy with, even then it will most likely still be far from finished and I have not even done anything yet to the other vehicles in the set. :o

Keeps me out of mischief though and gives me something to focus on. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: vonofterdingen on April 14, 2020, 03:37:44 PM
I will personally take this moment to thank you for focusing on this particular endeavor in these trying times. Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 15, 2020, 04:14:21 AM
I will personally take this moment to thank you for focusing on this particular endeavor in these trying times. Much appreciated!

Thank you very much vonofterdingen, really appreciated. 8)

It is nice to get away from what is the usual aircraft hobby for me and take a look at other things, the Thorneycroft is like a multitude of small models in one and provides a welcome insight into the work involved around the airfields of the time and shows there is much more to to winning wars besides the airmen themselves and their planes, it took a whole army of personnel to keep those guys airborne and ultimately get them out when things went wrong, it is also great to have a variety of support vehicles around the airfields we as pilots leave and hopefully return to as it makes things more interesting visually to have the airfield populated with all manner of stuff.

The downside to the build is that because there is so much to it, yes I know I get carried away with detailing, I keep taking time away from it while I decide what to do next, I am also hampered by ill heath that I cannot get around as it stops me doing this as well so what would normally take a matter of weeks for others seems to go on forever with me. :(

Hopefully you are all finding it interesting as I go through each stage and not getting bored with it. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 19, 2020, 04:53:13 AM
I am getting more and more idle with this, maybe all this quarantine is affecting my artistic impulses. :(

Anyway, at least I made the fan belt finally. :o

It went through numerous trials before I finally found a method I liked, sort of. o_O

I used a line to make a shape that followed the front of the small pulley wheel, went down to the larger one
and around that before coming back up to the start to be closed.  A version of the completed line is cloned
and enlarged before attaching the two shapes to each other one inside the other and filling in the area between
the lines to make a face.

Two shapes were then created with the faces looking the same way and again attached:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T256PgZS/Coles-crane-239-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The create tool was then employed filling in the gap, this can be problematic as sometimes the face
appears on the opposite side and has to be flipped back the right way, very annoying and I suppose
there is a way to stop it but |I know not how:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vBMVmGm2/Coles-crane-240-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Eventually some faces are flipped out leaving left, right and middle all visible externally and a clone made:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJzQHtMm/Coles-crane-241-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The middle face is separated and enlarged before flipping to make the second outer which is welded to your
existing shape to make something resembling the belt, I think:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3N04SNfR/Coles-crane-242-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I coloured things to try and better illustrate the method, the Brown is the final, some faces need to be
deleted from the cloned versions to give you the faces you need and will eventually connect but hopefully
some of the illustrations give you enough information to follow what I did:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XqgJD5cn/Coles-crane-243-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

To use the create tool it is essential to see what you are joining and unfortunately to do that means flipping
the faces to be joined in the same direction otherwise you cannot see the vertice you want to connect, it is
a fiddly method and usually I end up with all kinds of odd shapes because I join the wrong dots up, however,
following a little trial and error, much swearing and if possible the consumption of strong Lager I end up with
something that is used and does not end in the bin. :D

Here we have a goer:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gj75pSKs/Coles-crane-244-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Eventually after mapping it finds its way into IL-2:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HLj6Y4VP/Coles-crane-245-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I will eventually finish this guys, I swear. :angel:

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 21, 2020, 05:08:52 AM
Hello guys, hope you all are well and staying clear of the dreaded lurgy. ;)

Finally finished with the bits and pieces at the front of the engine, at least for now, sure I will find other things I missed. :D

Moving to the right side of the engine block I made the three metal plates that are so prominent visually there, they
are I think blanking covers possibly pressed from aluminium applied to areas of the engine either not used for the UK
version that is right hand drive or for special equipment not fitted in this instance.

Again I tried various ways of construction none of which were any good but eventually settled for a box with the rounded
corners that I then plunged another shape into using Boolean methods to create the lip I needed and pulled the face, in Red,
closer to the front:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y969Td92/Coles-crane-246-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

That face was detached and another shape resembling a house roof was attached to that to make something
resembling what I saw in photographs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vmdkmhh6/Coles-crane-247-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

A little adjusting got me close to what I wanted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nhQKWtvv/Coles-crane-248-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I added a small cylinder to replicate the face to which I attached a bolt that holds things in position, times
two once I had mapped the original, the bolt was from another construction again cloned to make a second:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DwwsVJtk/Coles-crane-249-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Complete with rusty bolts all three are in position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KcKxWZ9q/Coles-crane-250-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

There are more parts this side than I thought so I have my work cut out for me for a bit yet, I'll keep
you posted.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 21, 2020, 07:12:44 AM
Hello guys, there is now a updated link in the first post for those stoic enough to still be following progress. ;)

Please completely remove your existing folder as there have been numerous changes.

The update contains all detail showed so far in the thread including the engine detailing:

(https://i.postimg.cc/k4Z2r3jP/Coles-crane-251-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.  ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on April 21, 2020, 01:18:04 PM
Thank you for update Pete, everything seems to be working flavesly, I'm trying to keep up to date and I'm glad that the project is still developing 8).

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: cgagan on April 21, 2020, 01:54:42 PM
Many thanks for that magnificent beast of yours Pete, just installed in my vp_modpack and all is fine, 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 21, 2020, 02:12:12 PM
Hello guys, good to know all is okay for both of you, thank you very much for reporting in, really appreciated. 8)

I do try to check it all through before posting but there is always the chance something is missed so it is good to have confirmation
from some of you to show it is going the right way so far. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on April 21, 2020, 02:49:13 PM
Many thanks Pete, nice update...

...although I think the fan belt is slipping as it's running a little hot..... :P

Detail is superb.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 21, 2020, 03:08:29 PM

...although I think the fan belt is slipping as it's running a little hot..... :P

That will teach you to use something I made Shessi, you're lucky there is a fan belt, I nearly forgot. :D

Thank you very much for reporting in, really appreciated, glad you like it so far. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on April 29, 2020, 03:15:24 PM
Hello guys, I keep getting distracted with other things so took to the 3d again before I get completely lost in other things. ;)

Detailing of what seems to be blocked off openings in the right hand side of the engine:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fWGH0kM9/Coles-crane-252.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNMbgXpX)

The casting runs from out to the side of what I assume to be the cylinder head and will lead onto further
castings below:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wTFmYb4j/Coles-crane-253.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCjzvTty)

Trying to replicate the blanking plates at each end of the pipe with the nuts holding them in position
as well as the outlet below into the lower castings that I still have to build:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bv395Ms2/Coles-crane-254.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hr6hd0rL)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 01, 2020, 01:28:48 PM
Hello again guys, that particular component is now done and installed.  ;)

Mapped but awaiting updating of the texture:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pX4sDNk2/Coles-crane-255.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w755pGSP)

Trying to replicate the openings without covers:

(https://i.postimg.cc/c4LJf2C5/Coles-crane-256.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDL9mjxx)

And into the game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/44b5Y7HQ/Coles-crane-257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bh7cLV5)

I had a few light issues with the faces due to some of the radius included in the shape but while not
fully fixed seems okay so I will leave as is because tinkering too much can make a real mess. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Bison_M on May 03, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
Hi Pete. :)
I'm just shocked by your amazing work! o_O
I have not seen such a level of detail of the model. ;D
Wish you success in implementing the project.
Take care of yourself.

Alex 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 04, 2020, 04:23:18 AM
Hi Pete. :)
I'm just shocked by your amazing work! o_O
I have not seen such a level of detail of the model. ;D
Wish you success in implementing the project.
Take care of yourself.

Alex 8)

Hello Alex, great to have you back around the place, seems so long since you posted. 8)

I hope you and all are keeping well during these strange times. ;)

Glad you like my project, it was always meant first and foremost as a 3d build so was always going to incorporate as much detail as I could
manage to add, however, as you see I also brought it into the game as well although it needs the help of some special classes for certain
parts to work. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 02, 2020, 05:11:10 AM
Hello again guys, finally back on board with this, I got a little way laid. :D

Continuation of the engine block detail on the drivers side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLprqvNR/Coles-crane-258.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3W9ZMFzh)

It will not be a exact replication of the castings seen in the photograph but hopefully close enough to
at least convey the general shape at least. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on June 03, 2020, 05:54:14 AM
Yes you did...I was going to have words...lol!

(although Swordfish floats are the thing to have.....)

Good to see you're back in the driving seat Pete.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 03, 2020, 10:26:23 AM
Yes you did...I was going to have words...lol!

I am very easily led astray, always was even as a kid, we would wander for hours in the woods and stuff near us, drove my mum mad, usually got a crack from her for coming home at silly times of night, nothing has changed I still go where and when I feel the need. :D

(although Swordfish floats are the thing to have.....)

I made a few skins years ago for the aircraft when it released with floats, always annoyed me needing a separate tga to paint the floats so when Herb was having issues and I now had the knowledge to do something it was a no brainer to try and sort it out, I nearly built the proper floats but held myself in check and just went with remapping. ;)

You know these things seem to linger, like something in your head keeps tapping away and reminds you of things you really still need to do, my Lysander was built for the Finnish theater and I just never got around to doing the intended skins and opening up the wheel spats, finally it is done, I can sleep nights now without those voices hounding me, I scratched the itch so to say, all is done and dusted, I can now leave anything else to others. 8)

I was intending to start the Queen Mary while I do the Thorneycroft but thought better of it, the pain in my hands, arms and neck only allows so much activity so it is better if I do not go there, too many projects could lead to nothing getting finished so I am back on track again. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 08, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Hello again guys, just a quick update. ;)

The trouble with leaving a project for a while is returning to it makes you look again at
what you have so far, this project is no different and so I have replaced the upper parts
of the engine block with something a little better shaped, more rounded and smooth.

The light Brown/Sand coloured parts are the new and replaced items:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T2L4Yt1t/Coles-crane-259.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDyz0LWn)

These castings are proving to be rather troublesome and have gone through a few changes as I try and
make a shape close to what you see in the earlier photograph, it appears to be two castings if you will,
one part blended into the engine block and then it appears to have a cover, there will be a second behind
but I will clone the first once I have mapped it to make that later on:

(https://i.postimg.cc/02tMW0dq/Coles-crane-260.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNHZqfDP)

Here is what I am trying to do, the engine side part has the bolts fixed into it and a cap is then pushed
over those and bolted tight, I have not cut any holes in the mating faces that can be represented using
paint, hopefully you see what it is I am trying do:

(https://i.postimg.cc/52TH19R7/Coles-crane-261.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qNcBxr0y)

Splitting these parts is not essential but I wanted to give my self the option for later on of maybe
doing the engine as a separate object on a bench with some of the bolted on parts removed as
though it has been stripped down by mechanics, we will see. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 11, 2020, 12:52:11 PM
A little more of this jigsaw is now finished. :o

Mapping complete on all the new build parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRfC7trK/Coles-crane-262.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZd1pJ8D)

The front part of the castings pulled back to show the rear portion:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rs4CDK45/Coles-crane-263.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wWqSXJf)

And then from the rear looking out to show the other face:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKkx1xkH/Coles-crane-264.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5j3zzv2Q)

And finally into game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZd1JrWp/Coles-crane-265.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21qLgKFn)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on June 17, 2020, 05:15:44 AM
Hi Pete,
Good to see the power house take shape...hope you haven't got any crossed threads on those nuts....ooooeerrr missus.. :o

You can see the real engine was made so that easy access and maintenance could take place whilst the engine was still in situ, good designing.

I appreciate it's not important or needed, but it almost begs the question that a working crank/pistons etc for a cutaway engne would be good.

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 17, 2020, 11:38:58 AM
Hello again Shessi, glad to see you still following this and liking what you see. 8)

I appreciate it's not important or needed, but it almost begs the question that a working crank/pistons etc for a cutaway engne would be good.

I think the best I could do as far as any kind of display to portray the pistons is concerned is essentially leave the cover off with the holes
the pistons would move inside displayed as painted holes, not much I know but that is what the other parts I have split are doing, giving a representation of what it might look like based on my experience of manufacturing components years ago.  Trouble here is I have no photographs of the split down engine block so I can only guess at things from what I see in the images I do have, that is most likely a good thing because if I had more information this vehicle might never be finished.  :D

Anyway, work continues but slowly, I am working on the bits and pieces down the driver side of the engine block:

(https://i.postimg.cc/s2xFzhCQ/Coles-crane-266.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKzNqhwf)

Not too difficult this last bit, gives me a break before I tackle the other side. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on June 18, 2020, 05:07:04 AM
Hi Pete,
Yes, it's not important at all, so with the work load/detail you're doing, no need to put any more expectation on it/you! lol.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 18, 2020, 05:43:24 AM
The most difficult aspect of any project Shessi is knowing when to stop adding stuff, as you can see I am very bad where decisions like that are concerned, I just go on and on. :o

That is the reason I chose to release the project earlier, the model is usable for the campaign/mission builder as it is so if you are any good at 3d and skinning the necessary basics are there so you can all make changes and improvements yourselves while I tinker away in the background to my hearts content, who knows where it will eventually go. :D

Looking at the steering column in the photograph makes me realize just how much more detail is needed there. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on June 19, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
Many THX for this very interesting vehicle, Pete ...!  ;)

Now I wish a skinner were interested in giving it a desert camo ...  8)

https://www.o5m6.de/western/AircraftRecovery.php#thornycroft

(https://i.postimg.cc/MTLkwgZC/wd-raf-sru-Thornycroft-Amazon-WF-AC6-2-Coles-Mk-VII-Series-2-Crane-Left-small.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 19, 2020, 01:07:02 PM
Many THX for this very interesting vehicle, Pete ...!  ;)

Glad you like it Mick, it should add a little something different to your airfields I hope, more so when I eventually make a start on the Queen Mary combination. ;)

Now I wish a skinner were interested in giving it a desert camo ...  8)

The intention is to add that scheme once I finish the vehicle, as well as army versions, however, I want to complete
the vehicle before I sort out that issue although essentially the bodywork should not now alter there is a possibility
changes might need to be made to each of the templates so I do not want to constantly alter things. ;)

The template is in the download so hopefully one of our talented skin artists might take this on board, there are many
here who would make a finer job of it than I can but again the problem for them is most likely that fact I have not yet finalized
everything so they will not want to put in many hours of work if there is a possibility for alteration. :-|

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 20, 2020, 12:45:51 PM
So, to carry on building or complete the textures and templates first for the body?

(https://i.postimg.cc/gJFbdhGP/2020-06-20-18-35-17.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9cMxC9f)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hqvJyCs/2020-06-20-18-39-45.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzppKJyC)

There are no lines on the existing templates and skins yet or any real weathering so the above is what
you have now merely replacing the Blue/Grey R.A.F scheme for Europe with one used in the desert. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: asheshouse on June 21, 2020, 02:03:33 AM
Looks good.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stiv_069 on June 21, 2020, 02:23:23 AM
Супер!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 21, 2020, 05:44:13 AM
Looks good.

Glad you think so asheshouse, the desert colour does a little something to the model, we are so used to seeing the standard
R.A.F. scheme we forget it also served elsewhere. ;)  I wonder if Airfix ever added alternative schemes to their kit for this beast?

Супер!

Hello Mstislav, glad you think so. 8)

Okay then, as a little departure from building I have been experimenting with the desert and winter schemes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/prwDtyYd/2020-06-21-10-11-45.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8fbFRpY8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgFWkJVn/2020-06-21-10-53-25.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxjwhPq5)

The above are the stationary version of the moving vehicle but once the mission is running the moving version
does adopt the respective desert and winter schemes, I erased elements of the winter colour as they are usually
a water based add on that easily fades with use, not really sure if the R.A.F. actually used this scheme but it is
included for completeness.

I do not want o get too far ahead of the build as the more folders you develop the worse it becomes to add any
further alterations so for now I only did the standard folders for the moving vehicle, the static objects will be looked
at once the build is complete.

Now I have these three versions working I will add some lines and other detail to the templates/textures and maybe
upload a further version of the W.I.P., there have also been alterations to the dead version to allow for the three new
folders now in use and the Technics file has been suitably altered to allow these to work.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 24, 2020, 04:03:24 PM
Well, nothing like adding a few lines to the textures to show what a mess you made.  :D

The trouble with cutting in windows and doing any alterations is you end up like this, notice
the door hinge line at the bottom. o_O

(https://i.postimg.cc/L6kQWSv9/Coles-crane-267.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8ZcWttH)

Sometimes adjusting the vertices in the mapping can help a little to tidy things up a bit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tCgnKtNs/Coles-crane-268.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3SBJNPz)

With the cab and the bonnet I went for a complete re-mapping to sort things out this time around:

(https://i.postimg.cc/P5shWdJd/Coles-crane-269.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLXGK0y1)

The lines are now looking a little better as I straightened them up:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrqx5WSy/Coles-crane-270.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5V35sHC)

Into the sim to see if it looked okay with other parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4dQCKh5/Coles-crane-271.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3h2087d)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FzTp9r63/Coles-crane-272.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfjV5Sqp)

That sorted out the complete engine cover and cab with closed doors, also I did the separate bonnet top
as I have the parts opened up on some vehicles, now on to the cab with open doors. ;)

Hopefully the crane cab will not be as bad because there was nothing cut into it, however, who can say
until I add some lines to that. :P

Nothing is ever simple with 3d, move vertices around, cut it up and attach things to it and all sorts of odd
stuff happens, meddle at your peril. ::(

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 28, 2020, 04:04:41 PM
Hello again guys, a little more of the continuing progress for you. ;)

Here we see the updated template applied in game with the new lines for the closed cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQ1msFfK/Coles-crane-273.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sj9BTP50)

Moving on to the cab with open doors the same procedure again, this time the doors are separated
and those and the cab re-mapped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KYfdHB9Y/Coles-crane-274.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLLtLbYm)

The doors were done first and as usual there were issues with things aligning so I took the best inner
and outer face detached them and joined them to each other before cloning the new door to make
the pair:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGZWHWNv/Coles-crane-275.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RW8rbzMB)

Anyway, after what seemed like forever and much messing about I finally got something that is usable
although not perfect once all the lines and rivets are reduced in opacity it should be passable:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nzyb4ZRK/Coles-crane-276.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLJ4G8Xh)

And here we are the final result with a little weathering of both cabs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gkPbrz6m/Coles-crane-277.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhvbbMTb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cCRjf38Z/Coles-crane-278.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHf0rVjP)

Now all I have to do is go through the same process and update all the templates. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on June 29, 2020, 01:08:00 AM
... very promising progress here ...!  8)

Many THX for sharing ...!  ;)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on June 29, 2020, 05:22:08 AM
:D   Sorry for my intrusion .. you are doing a fantastic job, which I really appreciate! The love and passion that is supporting you in this titanic work is evident! I only ask you for a small intervention on a detail that in my vision, perhaps excessively scrupulous, creates an aesthetic discomfort for me. Your model is a bright example of perfectionism in detail, with one exception, which however immediately catches the eye, THE MUDGUARDS ( Splashboards) ! Please take a few more hours of your time to soften the curve of the rear ones, but especially the front ones, please remove that really unpleasant dodecagonal effect (in my eyes). Having said that, I thank you with all my heart for this magnificent work! And "ad maiora semper"!  ;)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 29, 2020, 08:07:10 AM
... very promising progress here ...!  8)

Many THX for sharing ...!  ;)

Glad you like it so far Mick. 8)

Here a few shots showing text and insignia added:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wzn5RHcH/Coles-crane-279.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHyCKpBC)

Your desert request is coming closer:

(https://i.postimg.cc/TYNcrmdg/Coles-crane-280.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yRRK8Gp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DfjGDT9K/Coles-crane-281.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HjMjcfWS)

The bonnet and mudguards still required yet further tweaks to add the insignia, feels like I will never finish it. o_O

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 29, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
:D   Sorry for my intrusion .. you are doing a fantastic job, which I really appreciate! The love and passion that is supporting you in this titanic work is evident! I only ask you for a small intervention on a detail that in my vision, perhaps excessively scrupulous, creates an aesthetic discomfort for me. Your model is a bright example of perfectionism in detail, with one exception, which however immediately catches the eye, THE MUDGUARDS ( Splashboards) ! Please take a few more hours of your time to soften the curve of the rear ones, but especially the front ones, please remove that really unpleasant dodecagonal effect (in my eyes). Having said that, I thank you with all my heart for this magnificent work! And "ad maiora semper"!  ;)

Hello stanislao, I know where you are coming from with this, I myself keep looking and trying to decide what if anything to do about it. ;)

The front mudguards on this vehicle have quite a complex shape at the front that I tried to replicate, in some ways I was partially
successful, however, as with all parts of the model sometimes adjustments are needed to the vertices to allow the meshes to conform
with the other parts and in that process it is very easy to loose the shape, that is why it looks a little rough. :D

Here is the whole thing made visible so you can see the overall shape, it was difficult to make and as such
will be to put right:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zf90Yb03/Coles-crane-282.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yFggRMH)

It was necessary to cut various bits out to allow things to conform with the cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0QNDqt6W/Coles-crane-283.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9gpfJJz)

Looking at it from the top you can see how the shape tucks inwards and downwards along that edge
that abuts the engine cover:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yN1SFfT1/Coles-crane-284.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJh6wWTp)

Anyway, seeing as I am currently in the process of sorting any errors with the front of the vehicle I will
take a look at this issue, it will mean making new parts, those lines you see in the image are the start
of a new construction, and we will see what we end up with, I might have to go with a more simple
shape than I have now.

There is no point trying to further adjust the existing parts, you get to the point of no return, you then
have to ask yourself whether you live with what you have or make it again, trouble is the project can
fall even further behind the more you try to make everything suit all the users and make it look really good.

I am not getting any younger you know. :)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on June 30, 2020, 02:04:16 AM

;D   Thanks Pete for the clarification! I imagined there were problems related to the connection of the front mudguards with the engine hood, I think if you can lower it and make the curvature more equidistant to the curvature of the wheel it would be perfect! But don't worry, if this involves a cascade of other changes, leave things as they are, the model as a whole is truly exceptional!   ;)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 30, 2020, 04:42:51 AM
Hello stanislao, new mudguard, that is as good as it gets. ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/02xYpNG9/Coles-crane-285.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HjZ8mdPN)

I will map this and then clone it and consider it done, I managed my shaping again but if I start messing
anymore it will just mess things up so I will quit now and go with this shape.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on June 30, 2020, 05:54:37 AM

:D   Excellent intervention! From what appears the problem is solved! Thanks Pete for the consideration.  ;)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on June 30, 2020, 07:52:33 AM
... yep, way better mudguards now ...!  8)

Our friend Stan is so hooked and enthused now, that I wouldn't be that surprised if he offered us a few skins when the truck is released ...!  :P
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 30, 2020, 01:53:22 PM
Hello again guys, job done for the mudguards. ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/28zbmJrn/Coles-crane-286.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jt245pyh)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G2wtfgX8/Coles-crane-287.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1k9ZkQp)

And into the sim:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DyM2DYZv/Coles-crane-288.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mv12f5VN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZK2SjB70/Coles-crane-289.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4m6qxdTT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjjCHm3v/Coles-crane-290.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T58NR87w)

Not perfect but it is time to move on to the lines and rivets for the Coles cab next so on I go, more madness
and mayhem to come so stay tuned. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on July 01, 2020, 03:46:01 AM

:)  I know, I'm a bale breaker ... You made thirty ... make thirty one! Make the mudguards the same thickness as the rear in a bit more thick and then, I swear, I will never intervene again! Thank you so much for this jewel and be careful and don't let go of the guard! (Within the limits of reasonableness!)  ;)     8)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on July 01, 2020, 04:53:14 AM
... yep, in fact the mudguards only need a small edge, which makes them look thicker ...  ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pTwfxHMy/Coles.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 01, 2020, 03:47:50 PM
Hello guys, the mudguards were in fact the right thickness but as Mick has pointed out they look thicker because there is a lip
extending down that makes them look much more sturdy than they actually are.

Best I can do is pull the inner faces down and out to make things look a little more like the rear ones:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGrdmCDg/Coles-crane-291.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GBGFcS6j)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxChfsSp/2020-07-01-21-23-55.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9R1q03by)

I do not have the ability to replicate exactly the real thing, I could add a separate lip but in the process
of attaching it to the mudguard it could misshape the rest of the mesh so what you see above is as good
as I can provide.

You cannot really see underneath so I made it close to what the rear guards are and that will have to do. ;)

Could not do anything much today due to health issues, however, I did a couple of short periods attempting
to do the lines for the Coles cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs3F5mkg/Coles-crane-292.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdsPnxRd)

I managed to find a very good photograph of the Coles logo that was face on so I grabbed a copy
and adjusted the colour and size in PSD and it looks okay I think. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on July 02, 2020, 04:15:03 AM

:D   You did exactly what I hoped for! Now the two mudguards are the same thickness and visually they are absolutely pleasant! Thanks Pete for listening to my suggestions and Mick's!    ;)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on July 02, 2020, 04:30:56 AM
Nice going Pete!

Body work looking good.  The Coles logo, was it painted or embossed on?  If embossed then looks very good, if not then looks a little 3D for just a logo tex.

There are some spotters out there!  Thickness of mudguards!  Just hope they don't see the shape of the ashtray mounting bolts...lol..he he, glad there are others out there that care though.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on July 02, 2020, 05:12:50 AM
o_O   :-X    :-[     ::)

(I think a comment is superfluous ..)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 02, 2020, 06:31:12 AM

:D   You did exactly what I hoped for! Now the two mudguards are the same thickness and visually they are absolutely pleasant! Thanks Pete for listening to my suggestions and Mick's!    ;)

Glad you like the changes stanislao, always happy to oblige you and Mick if I am able. 8)

The Coles logo, was it painted or embossed on?  bolts...lol..he he, glad there are others out there that care though.

Hello Shessi, the logo was actually embossed, it seems the rear is a complete casting and is I think the counter weight,
however it was done it is certainly not painted. ;)

Here is the photograph I used, not sure who the image or vehicle belongs to but could be the Yorkshire museum:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hG8TYFgW/CIMG4662-jpg-368ced0ec3cd8a5d1f9cecc219d30e6f.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yRkycdn)

If you look at most images that have been posted where you can see the rear it stands out, that is for sure, you cannot miss it. :D

This is the Yorkshire vehicle, most images show this style but I have seen other versions:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4dkZmMhd/Thorneycroft-Amazon-Crane11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H3Drsgd)

On this vehicle the bottom piece is missing so they might be separate castings added into the recess. :-|

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on July 02, 2020, 06:59:24 AM
Hello Pete, Laborious and very effectiv work ]thumright[, it's nice to look at this page and see how Coles gets more beautiful day by day, the amount of detail is impressive 8), which undeniably adds a graceful look to this vehicle.

Ps. summer and winter painting scheme also looks nice 8).

Best regards,
Piotrek
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 02, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
Hello Pete, Laborious and very effectiv work ]thumright[, it's nice to look at this page and see how Coles gets more beautiful day by day, the amount of detail is impressive 8), which undeniably adds a graceful look to this vehicle.

Ps. summer and winter painting scheme also looks nice 8).

Best regards,
Piotrek

Glad you are happy with things so far Piotrek, thank you very much for the comments, really appreciated. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 03, 2020, 03:20:41 PM
Hello again guys, quick update on progress. ;)

Adding lines to the Coles cab was relatively pain free, most things matched up. :o

In progress, the colours are so I can identify which panels are where:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCLQ2mYh/Coles-crane-293.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nR20f8r)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPDBkhYZ/Coles-crane-294.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0M23Y46)

Here we see lines, bolts and weathering suitably reduced in opacity:

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7qw5MhN/Coles-crane-295.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgzZkfyq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bbd21RRX/Coles-crane-296.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5JmwcWH)

The Coles body has quite a few large nuts and bolts around it that are quite a visible feature, for the
moment these are represented with colour but the intention is to actually add the necessary parts to
give it that lumpy look that is so obvious in photographs. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on July 04, 2020, 06:17:31 AM
Using the embossed logo tex gives the 3D impression, great stuff.
Hi Pete,
Possibly the rear of the top photo, I think it may be the NI museum vehicle.  And you can see the four bolt heads that hold that secondary info plate on.  Interesting their vehicle has that raised lower side body and rear, along with the towing hitches and pulley wheel in the middle, poss for a trailer or towing purposes.  I bet there was a lot of localised modding to all these, as with most military field vehicles.

And does look good with some used/weathered texturing.

Cheers

Shessi

p.s Yes Stan...it is....;) X
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 05, 2020, 03:03:45 AM
Hello Shessi, yes you could be right about NI although that one wears the disruptive scheme, in my image I am not sure as there is not enough of it to see but possible yes. ;)

I have seen photographs from four specific projects, the first was the Imperial War museum example, second the Yorkshire museum vehicle, the one in Belfast that provided most of my information even though it is the long version and finally a version in the Netherlands. Those four specific to preserving the wartime vehicle of my project, the remaining photographs were either historic period ones or of the more modern private collector vehicles, most of the later seem to have been in use by fair grounds so have been kept in immaculate condition.

As you mention all have seen extensive modification through their lifetime so trying to find a definite version is difficult, I based the rear contraption on the Yorkshire vehicle with most of the internals the Irish one.  There do seem to be two versions of the Coles crane cab, the rear of some is shaped differently as I found when trying to decide how the bolts are arranged, many also have various covers for the driver, again I used the Irish example because of close in images.

The camouflaged vehicles we see could actually all be R.A.F. vehicles, I thought they were from the army, however, I have seen photographs recently that show a disruptive scheme on European and Middle East vehicles, so where they only used by the Air Force?

I wonder if they found their way to India and the rest of the Far east as well, there is so much we still do not know about these vehicles, Mick posted a link that is very interesting for Middle East service, other than that I am still looking.

Anyway, I waffle too much, less typing more building is what is necessary. :D

So, those bolts, here we see them added and mapped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PcXDVnZ/Coles-crane-297.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcr3yBQm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DwbCJPhs/Coles-crane-298.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WdTmxrhb)

And into IL-2:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBpktK08/Coles-crane-299.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JspXg2fP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hvf8FKPx/Coles-crane-300.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0P0nQtL)

Not too bad I think for a amateur. :o

While trying to add this detail to the static objects last night I found the rotation pivot of the crane is out of place, so
I spent parts of the evening trying to adjust the parts attached to it to go with the updated cab, I now need to add
those into the game today, not a major job but something I could do without really as I wanted to update the remaining
tga files of the vehicle today to match the work so far, as they say "shit always happens on a day ending in Y", so much
for cunning plans and all that.  :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: asheshouse on July 05, 2020, 06:21:31 AM
Nice details.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: vonofterdingen on July 05, 2020, 02:57:38 PM
I don't know what to say Pete. This is remarkable.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 06, 2020, 06:01:18 AM
Hello again guys, glad you both like the continuing work and detail, thank you very much, really appreciated. 8)

Here are some images from work completed yesterday, all the tga files now have some form of weathering
applied to each one as well as the lines where necessary:

(https://i.postimg.cc/prYkPvgd/2020-07-05-23-23-24.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YL0Qx52c)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfzMptRX/2020-07-05-23-25-03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMrmNtxg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0pYfWsp/2020-07-05-23-26-47.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YGsvth7V)

The engine is not yet finished but I dirtied what there is to help it conform with the rest:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qqM6CdNq/2020-07-05-23-35-50.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZw4LwtG)

The bolt detail added to the Coles now really completes the external detail and takes that mesh to just shy of the
allowable limit for each mesh that is normal for the game, also there is a separate number plate for each of the
three theaters,  the numbers were taken from various photographs but are not necessarily that particular vehicle
just so I did not have to leave a blank plate.

I will now try and put together another update link, today or tomorrow if I can, so you can see the details
described in the thread since my last link was posted, I will then continue to develop the engine meshes
and anything outstanding I have not got around to yet. ;)

Things are still far from completed but you will be able to use what there is although it might be necessary
to adjust anything added to a mission file to account for my alterations, mainly the static objects because
I had the rotate point wrong for the crane. :-[

As before it will be necessary to delete your existing folders because model and templates have changed
considerably.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on July 06, 2020, 07:16:32 AM
... woaouh, still more and more details ...!  8)

Please don't forget the dashboard cigarette lighter ...!  :D

... more seriously, suggestions for skinners ...  ;)

http://bennosfiguresforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20958&hilit=thorneycroft

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235016048-176-airfix-thornycroft-amazon-lwb-conversion/

Various foreign armies also adopted the Amazon, in different versions, like the Argentina army ...

http://www.militariarg.com/tractortruck-prime-mover-vehicles-wheeled-artillery.html
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on July 06, 2020, 07:26:04 AM
;D  It is evidently becoming the ultimate work of art in your  life of modder! All your skill is pouring into this jewel and the results are truly spectacular! I love refined and realistic models and yours is definitely in the Il2 pantheon !   8)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 06, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
Hello guys, new link is now in the first post, enjoy. ;)

Now includes Summer, desert and winter folders for the moving vehicle, each colour should appear on the respective maps providing the correct season is included on the maps you use in the load.ini:

[WORLDPOS]
CAMOUFLAGE = SUMMER  or DESERT or WINTER.

There are now static objects for each season, these will show on any map irrespective of season in the load.ini, there are no dead models yet for the statics only a stand in for for the moving vehicles but it has no dedicated texture.

All tga files have been brought to the same standard, where panel lines were appropriate they have been added as well as basic weathering for all textures.

Templates for the tga files included have been included in the download.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBq0qXf2/2020-07-06-12-54-37.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMLpKhRG)

Please completely remove existing folder as there have been too many changes to note, some
parts are renamed and some removed to be replaced by new versions, there is now also the java for
a moving vehicle.

It is also necessary to check your existing text entries and update them/replace completely.

This is quite a sizable download due to each vehicle and each of the static folders now having three
folders each and additions to the templates and parts.  ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on July 06, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
... congrats for all your efforts and for sharing this very useful addition ...!  8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on July 06, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
Extraordinary job done! Picking up my jaw from the floor!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 07, 2020, 10:07:17 AM
Glad you like the update guys, thank you very much for the kind comments, really appreciated. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: cgagan on July 07, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Masterpiece Pete!  8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Piotrek1 on July 07, 2020, 11:43:40 AM
Amazing work 8), Thank You, Pete!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 07, 2020, 01:03:01 PM
Thanks to you guys also, glad you like the updates, appreciate the kind words as well, really appreciated. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 18, 2020, 12:54:42 PM
Hello again guys, been a while since I did anything with this but I am back on it. ;)

I had already done some detailing on the drivers side of the engine block before I started to fine
tune the parts and schemes for the last update, I have now started to add further nuts and bolts
and do the mapping:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9Q4gc9zb/Coles-crane-301.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xrbk8pfB)

Hopefully now I am back on this I will carry on without further distraction. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 23, 2020, 06:08:14 AM
Hello guys, just a few images of this on going project. ;)

The area I am trying to replaicate in the photograph:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ydvj9n4F/Coles-crane-302-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The individual meshes combined into one single mesh and already mapped, full view:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GmGjzbn3/Coles-crane-303-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The mapping extracted from gmax with LithUnwrap and all the Black area erased before integrating into
the existing map of all the parts on this particular template:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BbPF6CqZ/Coles-crane-304-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Colours added and mesh opened in gmax to check all was there:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CM8HwFdG/Coles-crane-305-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

It was not, I had missed some areas, dozy old git I am. :P

And into the model in game for a look:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7P19gHDx/Coles-crane-306-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Now for the other side, wish me luck I think I will need it. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJTCBR1s/Coles-crane-307.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 31, 2020, 06:43:43 AM
Hello again guys, well I actually started the other side but began with some simple detail on top. ;)

I had neglected the filler caps and attachment bolts from the top tanks so made a start there, the bolts
should be in a sunken recess but I was not sure how best to create that so just improvised, the pink
mesh:

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgy38kLT/Coles-crane-308-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The parts mapped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3wLsf28p/Coles-crane-309-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

And coloured, note the cap can be removed and there is a blanking piece underneath it:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvXdWG29/Coles-crane-310-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

To replicate the casting details on the other side I thought I could do some modifications to clones of those
made for the drivers side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2Q0fvZT/Coles-crane-311-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Things were not quite as straight forward as I imagined but I did manage to alter the existing parts and also
added some new build parts then moved the existing and remapped parts to another area of the template.
The pads where the bolts are were done slightly different from the other side, looking back I should have done
those the same but we are where we are:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Dwp6t6G2/Coles-crane-312-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Using the line tool I am now making a shape to represent the part of the casting that sits at the top of the
existing detail and any other bits and pieces I see in the photograph:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PqLyhDb1/Coles-crane-313-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

For weeks I have just kept looking at my references and trying to figure out just where to carry on as this
side of the engine is rather a clutter of all kinds of quite complex shapes and I did not know what to go for
first, anyway, now I have got that done I should manage, making the start is the most difficult bit. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on September 01, 2020, 08:19:40 AM
Hi Pete,
Nice engine work there fella!

Well you could send yourself mad trying to get perfection, and does IL-2 have a model poly limit?

On that side view I think it's quite modular ie, starter motor, external oil pump, fuel injector pump, as you say the most complex thing is getting the engine castings right to start with.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: asheshouse on September 01, 2020, 08:29:50 AM
Poly Limit - Max 3000 triangles per msh. Max number of msh files, 248, or thereabouts. However you may have an fps hit if you try to load large models.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 01, 2020, 11:02:11 AM
Hello guys, there are only a few of the meshes in this build that so far have crept up to the polygon limit, some are really too close for comfort. ;)

Once I finish the build I will do some integrating of the smaller parts together into larger poly meshes where I think it is warranted while at the same time leaving some things be if it will help setting things up for static, engine covers for instance on and off and possible retain the two types of cab, that sort of thing.

I very much doubt I will reach the upper amount of separate meshes limit Asheshouse mentioned that would be more likely with those warships he builds with all the guns and such as many items are duplicated I think, so hopefully all is good, at least so far no one has complained of any FPS issues with the Thorneycroft and I monitor it regularly by adding the parts to another install that does not have the high poly D.L.L files and so far it always loaded up without any alarms going off or the P.C. crashing. :D

The vehicle I think would possibly only ever have operated as a single unit at any one airfield, maybe two, most times they would be on the road recovering downed aircraft with maybe a unit at the airfield to help with any crashed aircraft that might be causing obstructions to other traffic so it is not like setting up a tank battle with hundreds of them running around.

Thankfully the available class files help for the static units assembly using the hier, without them I would have needed to considerably reduce the poly count of lorry and crane for there to be any chance of adding them as a usable item other than as the moving vehicle, it can be argued I have overdone much of the detail but it was specifically a build project anyway with that very intention, as it worked out we also had the means available by the time I started the build to also allow me to try all the built items in game without any tiresome need to assemble a lot of individual parts. 8)

With all the above said I still need to add lods and the damage models so it might all go pear shaped yet. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 07, 2020, 01:26:51 PM
Hello again guys, yet another update for you. ;)

The line shape you saw last time has now developed into a further detail part on the casting:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQzkcdYG/Coles-crane-314-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The upper casting finished and development of the lower one underway, the shape has been considerably
altered to match the photograph that meant I would be unable to use the existing mapping so it would need
to be completely done again to account for any stretching and such like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HswmhL2c/Coles-crane-315-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The upper part now fully mapped and coloured:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5t0MySML/Coles-crane-316-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Some existing parts are cloned to use on the re-shaped casting with some new items in build as well as
the part broken into back and front pieces, in game they will be joined as a complete unit, however, this
leaves the option to make a stripped down engine block as a separate object at some time so worth
doing the work here rather than coming back later:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HW51rLFZ/Coles-crane-317-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Here seen from the other side with the photograph to show what I am trying to replicate:

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2sfCssb/Coles-crane-318-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I attached the purple coloured piece that ties in the shape of the two components ready for the
complete new mapping of this part:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLsy4Qhb/Coles-crane-319-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The main shape has been mapped and colours added to the template before work continues with extra
pads for the nuts and bolts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rpzvMyS9/Coles-crane-320-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

All mapped and coloured:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KzMw39pk/Coles-crane-321-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Into game for a look:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PD9smRc/Coles-crane-322-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The filler caps were added at this stage, joined to the engine block as was some of the previously made detail
shown earlier on the drivers side, I am trying to integrate separate smaller polygon meshes were possible to others
to make a larger mesh.

That was quite a daunting set of shapes to make but at least it is now done so I can add the other components
that use it to connect to each other and other parts.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 13, 2020, 05:54:30 AM
Hello again guys, just another little update. ;)

Moving away from the side and back to the upper part of the engine some pipes and such had to be
made so I tackled that next.

The plate three pipes are attached to:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XqJdnxjR/Coles-crane-323-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Where possible I use parts previously made, the nuts in this case but the plate was new, here it is seen
with the mapping done:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GpCD4b3J/Coles-crane-324-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Two new pipes with a third borrowed again from another part of the build just to save me having to
bend and twist things into a new new shape this just needed some slight adjustment:

(https://i.postimg.cc/C1vnrDGm/Coles-crane-325-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This pipe looks to be pushed onto a shaped cap and uses a band to hold it on while also being bolted
over where one of the previous caps was, hence why I made that a separate piece when I built those
nuts and bolts for the tanks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QxKKSFHJ/Coles-crane-326-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The shape made and waiting for mapping with each of the parts joined together, a Boolean was used to make
a hole in one part to help join and blend the shapes together  by welding the verts, again certain items from
elsewhere were used but I will re-map it all because the shape was altered hence the parts having all previous
colour removed, not sure if the fixing uses bolts to hold it in position or actually a shape to accept a screw:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FzdzP6sH/Coles-crane-327-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Difficult to see from the photograph but a series of parts are connected from the engine to one of the pipes
and a further set of parts to what seems to be some control cables:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pVhKcGSj/Coles-crane-328-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I think I need to learn to do a little less detail, will I ever get this done. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: MarvinT on September 15, 2020, 11:09:22 AM
Pure work of art. Now I have to build a mission for it. Thank you and everyone who made this work possible.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 16, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
Pure work of art. Now I have to build a mission for it. Thank you and everyone who made this work possible.

Thank you very much for the kind words Marvin, really appreciated. 8)

The build has got quite involved as you can see, I never imagined it would still be ongoing now when I started. :D

Overall while there are certainly issues as to it being exactly true to scale I believe I have managed to capture the
spirit of the real thing, it does at least look like a Thorneycroft so that is a relief. :o

Making the various pipes has meant I needed to take a look at the fixings used to hold these in position
and here we see the parts of a Jubilee clip in process with a existing bolt having a slot cut into it for the
flat end of a screwdriver:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xTdztCZT/Coles-crane-329-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The Boolean method was again used to cut the slot with a square shape used to make the slot with the
faces flipped and one removed before attaching the parts to each other and welding them together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SsqX8N84/Coles-crane-330-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Here we see the two colours of these parts due to where they are placed on the template awaiting the
particular colours they will adopt:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pVs9hvdN/Coles-crane-331-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This just shows the vertices that were welded:

(https://i.postimg.cc/htdh571g/Coles-crane-332-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The item as it will be used with the clips and the cap:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7LX4sxdw/Coles-crane-333-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

More detail has also been added to the various valves and connectors used to operate the flow of
the various liquids, gases, water or air they carry:

(https://i.postimg.cc/850SGZTY/Coles-crane-334-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

And I might need screws as well, some of the parts in the photograph seem to have them although it is
difficult to tell due to all the paint on them, anyway it does no harm to add further fixings:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CM9RHNbJ/Coles-crane-335-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

After that little lot I needed a rest this kind of work plays hell with my fingers, arms and neck entrapment, I
think I need a new body or a major repair job myself never mind the truck. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 24, 2020, 12:44:06 PM
Hello guys, here we go again with yet another update of this by now ancient 3d project. :D

I opted to try the new screws here to see if they looked better than the previous bolts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGRxpQrS/Coles-crane-336-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I cannot quite make out from the photograph just what I am making here but it looks like a double
spring lock washer so I began by developing two shapes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/1trQpZQ7/Coles-crane-337-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

These were welded together to form the part:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hP5q8rkn/Coles-crane-338-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

In situ as per the photograph, this looks a little odd as usually you tend to have these between nut and
washer, however, the image seems to show a few large washers all together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FHkXTSvL/Coles-crane-339-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Mapping shown for parts before extracting to add to the template and texture:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fyR6mt5k/Coles-crane-340-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Parts before colour:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMgP7Kz5/Coles-crane-341-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Here we see the pipes and clips done with further work to come:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yY5w3NRY/Coles-crane-342-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

All the parts are now painted, still with some things to make and add but getting through this set
of items:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cLnPRN77/Coles-crane-343-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This became a little involved, funny how what looks fairly simple and straight forward develops into a
major head ache. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 30, 2020, 03:48:36 PM
Hello again guys, another little update for those of you still following this. ;)

Below the previous detail is a set of pipes/cables, not sure for what exactly but I thought I would give it a go.

I found a new tool that allowed me to make a circle, strange after all this time I had never noticed it before. o_O

Prior to this I had been doing it the hard way, taking a cylinder and slowly bending it into shape by manipulating
the vertices, tedious and not very accurate, this makes things much easier once you have had a tinker to see
how it works you are in business.

I needed to make what is essentially a cable that has a spiral in it with lengths moving off in various
directions, this was begun by making a ring and getting it near to the size in the photograph:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9QZRMZPT/Coles-crane-344-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Parts were chopped off to add a long tube going one way and a second ring was cloned, angled and joined
to make the other shapes

(https://i.postimg.cc/SK4XzRVP/Coles-crane-345-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

These were welded together to get something like what I could see in the photo:

(https://i.postimg.cc/N0xK8tzj/Coles-crane-346-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Next up was a connector that joins various lengths that run along the engine block;

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQPJfDDC/Coles-crane-347-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

A number of these were made as were various off shoots that go into the engine itself:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4x6yZZZQ/Coles-crane-348-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Here is the completed and coloured item ready for fitting, one end I could not figure out where it went so
just made another bend and attached it so it pointed in towards the bulkhead as though it came from inside
the cab:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cHHLQn3F/Coles-crane-349-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Added to the vehicle in game along with the previous pipes and fixtures described earlier:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XXMNS1zP/Coles-crane-350-resized.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The photographs do not always give a good enough view to help you decide what exactly belongs where on the engine, some
parts look as though they are hanging off and do not belong anywhere in particular, maybe something removed for repair
as this is a restoration vehicle so some items are left off because of that, the intention is more to give the model a
passing resemblance than to create a exact replica.

Each part I make is different in many ways which is what makes this project on the engine so interesting, new shapes to
experiment with and new construction methods found sometimes to go with established ones, the engine has become a
project in itself because many of the vehicles seen in images all have the covers removed you feel you have to try and
replicate what you see, I wonder if the type suffered from overheating as it is not just desert versions I see without the
side covers or if those covers were a bad fit. :-|

Anyway, maybe one day I will find a manual to answer the multitude of questions I have on this truck, until then I will
just have to build what I see whatever the bits do. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Lythronax on October 01, 2020, 11:27:48 PM
Spellbinding, utterly spellbinding.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 02, 2020, 03:21:21 AM
Spellbinding, utterly spellbinding.

Thank you very much for the kind words Lythronax, glad you like the build so far. 8)

You will have noticed just how easy it is to get carried away in the build, each part you make seems to lead to even more, hard to know where to stop. :o

Must be very hard for those who do this for a living to actually build within a scheduled framework to suit the game project they work on, it can very quickly take over your life to the point it is very hard to put down even when you need to. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on November 30, 2020, 12:42:09 PM
Okay, after some time away from this while meddling with others work I retreated to my hiding hole, hunkered down
and set to work again on the engine. ;)

The front of the engine near the radiator seems to have some kind of pump, it bolts on to the previous
castings finished earlier and as always I will re-use and adapt existing parts where I can:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZqcHVJS6/Coles-crane-351.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mcn1G2XG)

Re-mapped and painted to a new part of the template:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZY1Q9KKq/Coles-crane-352.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lh3DwSPd)

I looked at some existing parts but ultimately started a few new bits:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XvgfWWQx/Coles-crane-353.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLVbwsmR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fTJJC9pM/Coles-crane-354.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJQzTJMP)

Not much chance to party over the festive period so hopefully this will keep me away from any serious
mischief. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 06, 2020, 12:07:52 PM
Hello again guys yet another small update of progress. ;)

The images I have do not show clearly where or exactly how the pipe attaches lower down so first of all
a missing piece of angle is made to fix to the chassis:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QC58v1YJ/Coles-crane-355.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6JH3hTN)

This not very clear image shows what looks to be a drain valve underneath so a block is put there
to align things:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sx2Pcfnz/Coles-crane-356.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgp68yF2)

Still thinking about what to do underneath I turned back to detailing the rest of the pump, here you
see the stages:

(https://i.postimg.cc/C5NhFSYR/Coles-crane-357.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1V8hBx8S)

The pipe itself has a very severe bend to it, this would require a special modifier adding to allow me to
pull and push the various vertices into a shape roughly how I wanted, I had already done this but opted
to show you the modifier in use, once the shape was as I wanted it was collapsed to retain the shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/90z8fBHy/Coles-crane-358.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2LRFch65)

Further tweaking of the vertices themselves improved the shape to something I could live with:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DftHztmZ/Coles-crane-359.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqLXsp75)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PS49Djh/Coles-crane-360.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6Fftp7H)

A further piece of pipe is shaped to lay over the earlier made parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gJyXZ9mW/Coles-crane-361.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nt5kj8C)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mDSkrQyZ/Coles-crane-362.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PpPT3v70)

I eventually decided to add a sump to the radiator shroud, that and the chassis angle were added to the
existing model and exported.

Those items gave me the positioning for the lower pipe before they were exported and at the same I tried
to make as good a replica of the valve as I could manage.  Not entirely sure how it all attached I decided
there would be welded tubes as part of the sump that these attached to and just to keep it all together used
a angle piece that might exist to hold all the bits in position inside:

(https://i.postimg.cc/k4VC0KYh/Coles-crane-363.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgNPYgSQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zDg5pwgy/Coles-crane-364.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCtGS7vT)

Those parts have been mapped and next time you will see them in their appropriate colours along with
the rest of the pumps and pipes that are part of it.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 14, 2020, 04:08:27 AM
Hello again guys, it continues to rain here in the U.K. so while stuck in I managed to complete a bit
more of the pipe work. ;)

Here is the finished work from last time, painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/prmsBLXG/Coles-crane-365.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XB0Kj35d)

A little difficult to see but installed in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/V6dhKRKW/Coles-crane-366.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8Jgw5hQ7)

Now to connect the front to the rear of the engine:

(https://i.postimg.cc/c4qzcfwf/Coles-crane-367.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqRGS6P0)

Here we see all the parts made awaiting paint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vHL0LkQd/Coles-crane-368.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xc8G9sJs)

Closer view of the valve at rear:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QCDpFNKK/Coles-crane-369.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ph097HZP)

There are a couple of holders keeping the long pipe and its assemblies in place that I had to make:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mgK1cZ0Z/Coles-crane-370.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DtQK2ms)

The shape is drawn using a line tool first, cloned and then various tools used to fill in the shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gkQ2sS4N/Coles-crane-371.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCKxc1yD)

The end pieces are the final bit welded into place once attached to the rest of the shape, one face
cloned and mirrored for the other side you cannot see:

(https://i.postimg.cc/d3ZzVBdV/Coles-crane-372.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/64wHHCYk)

The upper part seems to be held under a casting fixed above, possibly in a recess, and the lower what looks
to be a raised shape on the engine block, I had to improvise somewhat because the images do not give a clear
view but I think it close enough:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MK7z06MK/Coles-crane-373.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtrxBGy0)

Complete and awaiting extraction, the dark Grey pipes and clips I assume hold two separate parts of
the long pipe, maybe giving the structure the chance to move slightly to offset any vibration damage
or even allow expansion and contraction of the overall pipe due to temperature changes, could also
just make fixing together such a long set of pipes easier:

(https://i.postimg.cc/t4s2QT39/Coles-crane-374.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnpWcm1P)

And as previous a successful install into IL-2:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfK4CZKt/Coles-crane-375.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDkdXhzX)

Phew, that was a long job with the front section as well, and still the exhaust stack to sort out, I
fear I will be really old before this is finally done. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on December 14, 2020, 05:22:13 AM
Pete,
Missed the previous update, now seen it.  Beautiful pipe-workery there fella!

Hmm I've looked over the interwebs for a few pics of that front lower area, not many about to get references for is there?!  But I think you've just about got it spot on.

That front crankcase cast bell housing for the water pump and various gear housing, with it's bolt shoulders and bolts, is just a CAD work of art.....you realise C19's got you and you've gone poly mad..ha ha!

Have a good Christmas and look forward to 2021.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 14, 2020, 10:05:32 AM

you realise C19's got you and you've gone poly mad..ha ha!

AAAARRRGGGGHHHH, the dreaded Lurgy is about, yes you could be right Shessi, I have become a poly-aholic, I am surely doomed. :D

Them there pipes did it me Lord, I was overcome, consumed, I had no control of my impulses, guilty as charged. :o

Glad you like the detail Shessi, indeed the poly count is going up, however, still within the mesh limit, I am careful you know. ;)

Each of the pipe units shown in my last two updates run at around 2700 polygon, I know not how but each section I build comes under that dreaded 3000 limit
but because I can build with the hier so far all is going good, the issue comes with the finished model for those who have restricted downloads available but if it does become a issue there are ways around problems. So far none of you using the current link have indicated any problems although my current build is now well in accesses of that neither have I so onwards and upwards, I will just keep going.

I blame the desert air for all the engine detail, with all those pictures showing the side covers missing from the engine cover it became a imperative I super detail things in that area, the model does have a full, very low poly cover available in the build though so if folks want to delete all my high tech super detailing they can to reduce the load in their game.

Anyway, the festive season beckons, Covid will leave me all home alone, hopefully with a full fridge of tins and a bottle of Malt, have a good holiday Shessi, I send my best wishes to you and all for the coming year.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 16, 2020, 01:13:43 PM
Here is a little something for you guys who feel I have a rather bad fetish, a unusually excessive addiction to high polygons, I
have not entirely been consumed by the Dark Side yet.  :angel:

The engine block without all those ad on parts comes in at a miserly 343 polygons. :D

Uses a simplified version of the block with a texture added from the images from the restoration in Belfast
made to fit as best I could, passenger side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx8FbRDc/Coles-crane-376.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pm21DWNd)

The texture on the driver side is a image taken in gmax of my manufactured detail:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dtkgGDMg/Coles-crane-377.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LnSyp98V)

The object has a texture all its own:

(https://i.postimg.cc/76hKDQwj/Coles-crane-378.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/62srfc7h)

And into game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7DW5pZT/Coles-crane-379.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkNFwjHX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mr2vzjTy/Coles-crane-380.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75dsjgG5)

My test model still retains the fan and drive, that could also be simplified if need be for anyone out there
who really is poly conscious. ;)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 20, 2020, 04:52:58 AM
Hello guys a slight diversion, or off at a tangent if you prefer, you know I just have to tinker. :D

For some time I have wanted to take a look at other variants of the Amazon truck, besides our
well known truck/crane combination there were articulated vehicles out there. ;)

I just had to at least make a start before moving back to the engine parts.  :P

Some rough doodles of the tanks that replaced the existing ones and the second platform:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0kLKxj1/Coles-crane-381.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JVzK7FV)

Trying to give a little shape to the box using the bevel tool, I tried to repeat at the other end but
it did not quite look the same so I chopped off the shape and cloned it to use at each end:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4xyzkMJm/Coles-crane-382.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFLBcfK3)

Welding the ends to the cylinder:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zDkWL5vy/Coles-crane-383.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nmnMDzG)

Making the frame for the small platform:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5N60xMCd/Coles-crane-384.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcVYRh5t)

Difficult to see how exactly the fifth wheel is held but this seems close to the shape I see in the images
although there are variations:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvzKRMCW/Coles-crane-385.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14kRdfm0)

The fifth wheel is the chunk of metal covered in some kind of grease that the trailer fits into for towing,
I had to use a photograph from another more modern vehicle to create a shape something like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRq1D6mF/Coles-crane-386.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JsJpQYTc)

Near enough for our use me thinks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/q7CD0gkh/Coles-crane-387.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7CwnnHJw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2yT2TZxJ/Coles-crane-388.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9j4hMgY)

Just needs mapping and painting, oh, and a trailer. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: asheshouse on December 20, 2020, 08:00:48 AM
This is a true labour of love.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: cgagan on December 20, 2020, 09:32:07 AM
..It truly is!!!!! 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 20, 2020, 11:45:55 AM
This is a true labour of love.

..It truly is!!!!! 8)

Glad you guys like what has been done. 8)

To be honest I never really imagined I would still be building this roughly a year after I started, I think it fair to say I got carried away,
the intention was to have built the full recovery set by now and yet here I am still on the original vehicle. :o

It keeps me out of mischief and hopefully you all find it interesting enough to follow the work as I go. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on December 23, 2020, 12:54:31 PM
Hello guys, I added a link to the first post for the low poly engine. ;)

development in gmax:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j2DP7kHY/Coles-crane-389.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJzWrdpg)

It uses textures to represent a stopped and running version, choose the appropriate texture:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYvL0CVB/Coles-crane-390.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6Z3b4q0)

Stopped and running version in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBBXzv1B/Coles-crane-391.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Yr7bXbC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3NQ0kJxm/Coles-crane-392.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBj5gm35)

This is a low poly model of the current engine in the WIP Thorneycroft/Coles vehicle combination.

it replaces the current mesh 'EngineBlock'in the various folders you already have and incorporates a simplified
version of the fan and blades and new texture for all.

Using this allows you to significantly reduce the polygon count in the folders by allowing you to
remove all the current parts attached to the engine block with the hier, you will have to go
through your folders and remove any parts not necessary in the hier and also remove the meshes.

List of meshes currently attached to the engine block for the update posted in July:

CastingDriverSideA
CastingDriverSideB
CastingPassengerSideA
EngineBlankingPlates
EngineFrontCastings

FanAndPulleysRotate

Some of the fan parts will be dependant on whether each model is set up moving or stopped.

The engine detail was originally made because many vehicles are seen without the engine covers at each side, especially desert vehicles, for those with the fully enclosed cover you can remove all engine and fan detail, up to you to decide what is relevant to your install and use.

Have fun tinkering. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 08, 2021, 04:05:37 AM
Well guys, that was the strangest Christmas and New Year holiday I ever experienced and so 2021 starts
much the same as last year, locked down to hold the Covid at bay as our Health Service becomes increasingly
overrun by the sickness and ever increasing death toll. ::(

So, as I am not a health professional and I am not in the best of health anyway after a life in engineering all I can
do to help the N.H.S is stay home and try not to make friends with the lurgy and end up in I.C.U. :(

Guess I will just have to keep on tinkering in gmax and so here we go again. ;)

Work has now begun to construct the motor controlling the water pump, at least I think that is what it is. :D

As before I will be recycling some parts from other areas to help move the build along, in this instance
the connecting piece in Grey is much the same shape as the earlier parts of the pump as the mating faces
are roughly the same:

(https://i.postimg.cc/B6vkK8HH/Coles-crane-393.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jy9pwzTz)

The motor body and various couplings are in Blue:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCwrVfNm/Coles-crane-394.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njGSvtkV)

All the Grey or coloured parts are borrowed from other areas with the mapping moved accordingly on the
template and placed to replicate what I see in the photographs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PCdgRDh/Coles-crane-395.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z39HnRyB)

Here I am trying to replicate the metal strap that holds the motor in position on its bracket, a Boolean
method is again used to cut out various areas to build the shapes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgzLbMwp/Coles-crane-396.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w15WKpCX)

Making extra pieces from cloned ones helps to fill in the holes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j2SM1BZf/Coles-crane-397.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bD40DVXY)

The body and strap look a little clunky, maybe I should have made them a bit more rounded but never
mind, on we go, new fixings are combined with a existing screw to finish the shapes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/x8BLPZ7n/Coles-crane-398.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5Y9WsR6)

Again borrowed bolts and screws are used, separated from their previous parts and re-mapped before
putting them in position, the screws on the motor body really should be in a sunken recess but to save
messing around they will just be placed where you see them either side of the strap:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZZnH4qK/Coles-crane-399.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCNz884h)

Enough for now, the body is not willing even if the mind is, not much to show from the last post but at
least things continue onward even if slowly. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mick on January 08, 2021, 04:36:51 AM
... I am afraid that all this is getting so realistic, that the Thorneycroft Amazon future version will work like the real one and will be totally out of control if only using our keyboard or joystick ...!  :D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 08, 2021, 06:14:21 AM
... I am afraid that all this is getting so realistic, that the Thorneycroft Amazon future version will work like the real one and will be totally out of control if only using our keyboard or joystick ...!  :D

Maybe I could convert the Jeep and 50Cal mod to accept my 3d. :D

You could drive the Thorneycroft into position and then man the Coles cab instead of the gun. :o

Just a thought, and no I am not drunk, this being stuck indoors though is I fear having a detrimental effect on my mind. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on January 08, 2021, 11:05:49 AM
@Mission_bug, don´t you think that it is a generator/alternator to provide power for the crane (if it´s electrical driven) or does the crane have it´s own engine? It seems mighty big to drive a waterpump.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 08, 2021, 11:46:26 AM
@Mission_bug, don´t you think that it is a generator/alternator to provide power for the crane (if it´s electrical driven) or does the crane have it´s own engine? It seems mighty big to drive a waterpump.

To be honest I do not know, there are various motors inside the Coles cab under the panels that are attached to the crane cables and the winch, however, it is not clear from the photographs I have just what powers those, my own thought is that the Thorneycroft engine does that by transmitting power through other devices but how they are all connected is not clear. ;)

Unfortunately I do not have any documentation that helps me fully understand some of the items I am modelling, no drivers manual for instance to give any kind of clue and information on line is scant to say the least, without the photographs from the belfast restoration I would really be unable to detail this build as much as I have.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on January 10, 2021, 04:12:48 PM
Hi Pete,
I think FH is right, but it does not drive the water pump, it IS driven itself by the water circulation, another way of generating wiggly-amps, as almost everything on the crane is run off electrcity.

I don't know if you've seen this site and the associated downloadble free PDF's.  Interesting with a lot of historical info and pics, a few that explain the petrol/electrical cranes.  The guy who runs it, Tony, is email contactable, and he may be able to give detail on the various systems.

Oh and a Happ-ier New Year to all...

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 11, 2021, 02:42:49 AM
Hello Shessi, all the best to you and yours for this New Year, let us indeed hope it is better than the last. ;)

Thank you very much for the link, I have come across the link of yours before but not studied it extensively merely browsed quickly through so
I will keep it in mind and take a closer look at the details.

I think FH is right, but it does not drive the water pump, it IS driven itself by the water circulation, another way of generating wiggly-amps, as almost everything on the crane is run off electrcity.

As said earlier there are quite a few large motors on the crane itself but nothing obvious as a power source for them except the Thorneycroft engine so
understanding exactly how it all fits together for the layman is difficult.

Most working vehicles could be expected to have something that is clearly a power source for ancillary equipment but there is nothing like that for this vehicle,I would expect to see a box with mesh panels and a exhaust that would indicate a separate petrol driven engine for that purpose, maybe a closer examination of the photographs is necessary.

You would assume the crane would be self generated, able to turn the cab as well as lift the boom independently, there does not appear to be any connection
with the trucks drive shaft that I can tell, not even any power cables but electrical power as you point out must be the mechanism for working this beast.

Hopefully one day I will gain a full understanding of the vehicle, maybe a trip out to a vintage rally or even a journey to Belfast or one of the other museums
once the lock down can be lifted, for now I will continue to build, who knows I might finish it one day. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 12, 2021, 06:27:13 AM
Hello again guys, just another brief update for you. ;)

So, the various bolts and such that were cloned from other parts of the build and already mapped are
moved to new areas of the template, here we have their colours:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9020d8vk/Coles-crane-400.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkWJvBQR)

Thought I better do a quick poly check, wow, that soon got up to the individual mesh limit, better
leave things there and paint what I have so far:

(https://i.postimg.cc/HL5T6041/Coles-crane-401.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBjFXhNT)

The new mapping for this part of the build begins with the strap to hold the alternator/generator, this will
be difficult due to the circular aspect of it and the need to have all sides done individually besides which
you have to consider the painting and whether there will be stretching so in this case I opted to break
the diameter down into smaller areas:

(https://i.postimg.cc/g05N2Rfj/Coles-crane-402.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SX6WZXQb)

For what will be such a small object in the build you might ask why go to the trouble?  Well there is always
a possibility I will at some stage develop this in it own right and need to separate this particular part of the
build to a template of it own so I would rather do the work now just in case that eventuality comes about.

I think I have been through mapping a part with you before and if you compare my way to that of the guy
who put together the gmax tutorial, there is a link for around the site, you will be aware just how professional
his way is to mine and with good reason.  Mapping a part like this is quite involved and requires doing it in
pieces that all become joined in one whole after many combined stages so trying to remember just what you
mapped is difficult using my amateurish ways and can and will cause you problems.

What problems I here you ask?  Well, if you ever tried mapping and once done you found this when you went
to apply the texture then welcome to my world. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/TwgF8Cpf/Coles-crane-403.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQfw7PYN)

AAARRRRGGGHHHHH what the ***k I am sure was screamed out loud.

Now I would not advise turning to drink and drugs at this point, it can be fixed, not a complete loss, yet. o_O

Ignore my last statement, a drink will most likely help for what comes next. :o

The lines are a indication that a face/faces were missed during mapping, this is why our gmax guru numbers everything
very meticulously, with me though you get the idiot school of mapping. ::(

Okay, so how do you save the day?  First of all select a texture and and actually apply as you normally would collapsing
to actually bake things in so that the texture colours show on your mesh and save, please save a lot, it saves a lot of
pain during any 3d work:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QdjTctpb/Coles-crane-404.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHStCbg8)

Next up you need to find where you messed up, to do this I select and group all the good mapping without connecting
lines onto a single colour and once that is done take each area joined by the lines to individual colours of their own:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XNwqxWND/Coles-crane-405.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDZGHpVW)

This gives you a idea of what you are looking for, looks like one issue is while mapping the inner and outer of the
shape I forgot where they joined :-[

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hsg2PTwJ/Coles-crane-406.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjdYvKyk)

The way now is to take just one problem area and map it again, do not worry about what is already baked in for now
it will remain where you left the grouping, for the above it was the inner section at the top I did, one of four separate
segments that made up that diameter, the other two were okay.

By doing each stage at a time and collapsing as you go and re-applying the texture once you have the area done again
you will slowly but surely eliminate each problem area until all those linking lines are gone:

(https://i.postimg.cc/q7xhqdtF/Coles-crane-407.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06r2XF0G)

I ended with one face that could not be found for ages, I looked and looked to no avail but did eventually find it hiding behind
other faces, sometimes as you build and move things some vertices can be pushed together hiding part of a face and it really
can be a pain to find but persevere.

This is how all the now complete mapping for this part looks, you can see how it is divided up into segments:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FH916BCg/Coles-crane-408.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ykbVgvHk)

Before I moved it to a permanent position of its own on the texture I aligned everything as best I could:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPMKXPMT/Coles-crane-409.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TpyzSxz3)

I know, a lot of faffing around but at least it is done. 8)

Hope that helps save some distress for your own projects, just to show it is possible to save work without
deleting and starting over. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 18, 2021, 12:41:28 PM
Hello again guys, just a little more of the ongoing work, no issues this time. ;)

Here is the painting so far of what my technical advisers, Flying H and Shessi, describe as the generator/alternator:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fyk6N1jb/Coles-crane-410.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6VmcbFf)

At the rear is a further clamping ring that holds in position the electrical wiring box but it is slightly different to the first so I
utilised what I could from the earlier one but cut out the fastener first:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vmZRh1g9/Coles-crane-411.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjkwQnCQ)

From the photograph it was unclear just where the ring was open, what was clear is that the locking part seemed to be attached on
to the ring rather than be a part of it as before and there is a clasp of some sort that seems to actually hold the box to a new piece
of metal.  I began by filling in the part where I detached the locking part and mapped and attached it, I would later look at this again
and actually separate the two sections creating a smaller opening than previously.

Here we see the that second ring and the fill in section all mapped to another area of the template, it will
be properly positioned to a permanent area of the template later:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9F9cwqZQ/Coles-crane-412.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCJG1nwG)

The new fastener has a larger threaded length that appeared to use a winged nut to tighten it up, previously
it was a screw with a cut out for the screwdriver head, I tried to replicate what I could see of this first:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VvLDQMwB/Coles-crane-413.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/62gdC8yy)

A quick search online found a image of the wingnut/screw I needed to give me a good idea of the shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jh5NrnPT/Coles-crane-414.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t17ZDX0P)

The part is fabricated in two parts, the wing uses the line tool to produce a shape and the body is
merely a cylinder with four lots of vertices adjusted with the size tool used to make the shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pLqzhdwy/Coles-crane-415.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsnY89CH)

Here trying to align the build to where the finished part will finally attach:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j5NDXqFH/Coles-crane-416.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDr778m0)

The clasp to hold the box on, I assume under the box are two tongues of metal that would be offered up to
the clasp and inserted into it somehow before the clasp is pressed into place flat on the ring:

(https://i.postimg.cc/NMyzCS67/Coles-crane-417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgShrD5r)

As you see from the photograph quite how exactly is unknown, I make a lot of presumptions as you will have no
doubt noticed so all I can do is just make what I can see and hope for the best. :o

The work done and painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hKJCsRd/Coles-crane-418.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bS2wWTp9)

The length of the body has been bothering me through the build and so I finally shortened it using the mark one eyeball to get close,
never the best way I know but now I had the two rings it was easier, not as good as actual drawings but for our purpose it will have
to do. :D

Next up the box and its wiring as well as the bracket that holds this all to the engine block.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 24, 2021, 04:09:36 AM
Hello again guys, onward we go. ;)

Next up is the wiring box for our generator/alternator.

I looked around the details built so far and decided I could use elements from the front casting re-sized
to save time building and mapping, did not quite go to plan but more further on:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W3XY47xp/Coles-crane-419.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkZjHGqg)

The bottom of the box appeared more rounded than what I had so I took the side shape of the lid and made
a few copies that would each be reduced in size and stuck together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLb4y1sk/Coles-crane-420.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8jNLW2r2)

Here we see the work in progress from the side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4NzL7ZDF/Coles-crane-421.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp3qB8Yr)

Each piece is attached to the box and then the vertices welded together, a face also added to make
the bottom:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SRbLkYxQ/Coles-crane-422.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3490ZRGz)

The new base shape is mapped anew:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SKXc9fXN/Coles-crane-423.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqpqKfBr)

All coming together with the parts put onto a new area of the template:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8kdML5CW/Coles-crane-424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3ByrqKX)

A new top was needed that required a new shape so work began using the line tool to rough out the shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ryYcnGzL/Coles-crane-425.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hj5fjyQS)

This shape was further developed by removing each side and trying as best I could to replicate the curve
seen in the photograph:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZCZ2C9k/Coles-crane-426.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VJYZD1G)

The finished shape would need a clone rotated accordingly so a test was done to see how it looked:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bwMfLqvH/Coles-crane-427.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tshc4QWY)

All items are added to the template and checked to see all align, even though each will be a single colour
I try as best I can to make things match up just in case you need to add a stripe or some other such

(https://i.postimg.cc/t46BQb5z/Coles-crane-428.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXSLTHNJ)

Now here came a problem, I had mainly been working from one image enlarged to construct so far, however,
when I went to check another image for something it was clear my box needed some alteration because
the wiring orifice was not just a pipe added on but actually seemed to be moulded into the overall shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/P5f1Kk7x/Coles-crane-429.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHPBxvhG)

Note to self:

CHECK THE ****ING REFERENCES YOU HAVE MORE OFTEN TO BE SURE YOU
ARE CLEAR ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

OooppS, Sorry, the equivalent of road rage for 3d mess ups. :-[

Okay, so I will need to alter what I have by trying to add further shapes, also the size of the box when viewed
from another image needs to be elongated and smaller, different images taken from altered viewpoints and
possibly with alternative lens type on the camera used can give quite a variance and the whole scene can
be very much at odds with each image. o_O

The next short session I spent altering the box at this stage before any further building work and re-mapped it
completely to account for the adjustments I had made to get close to what I needed and then again put things
aside yet again.

Anyway, crying over and left for another session off we go again to make well the mess:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPVqskdH/Coles-crane-430.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLQXtSnB)

The shapes proved troublesome but I now have something near enough:

(https://i.postimg.cc/K4hhFNdq/Coles-crane-431.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jncF4zqP)

Screws were added and mapped to the box and then all is set aside again until I can face mapping
the new shapes and attaching to the rest:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8Cz5qpdF/Coles-crane-432.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87xNvV0D)

This part of the build seems to have kept throwing up issues in one way or another and has proved more
complicated than I imagined, I figured all the difficult stuff was done, wrong again as always, I will take a
few days away from it I think, time to make the dinner. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Bison_M on January 25, 2021, 12:16:06 AM
Pete...
I repeat again: I am shocked by such detailization! o_O
Maybe it's time to move on to the position of chief designer at Thorneycroft? ;)

I wish you all the best! 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 25, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
I repeat again: I am shocked by such detailization! o_O

Glad you like things so far Alex. 8)

The whole idea of the build was to try and capture as much detail of the vehicle as my ability and 3d program would allow, so far I am quite
happy with the way it has gone considering how little in the way of detailed information I had, apart from the main body of the truck and crane
which I had a basic plan of the rest is just by reference to photographs using the main vehicle as a rough guide to size up each object added,
the photographs from the Belfast restoration have been invaluable. ;)

Maybe it's time to move on to the position of chief designer at Thorneycroft? ;)

Thankfully the world will be happy to know I do not have those qualifications, who knows what might come off the production line if I had tried. :P

Like most of the great engineering manufacturers of its day, Thorneycroft was amalgamated into various British companies as time past and is now sadly
no more but a distant memory, the last of its original factories closed I think in the late seventies, the global economy swallowed up what little was left
after our own domestic manufacturers had condensed into a few major outlets, foreign companies raped and pillaged what was left of many of our major
manufacturing entities for vehicles and trains and other things to the point we now barely offer anything other than production facilities that bring parts
made elsewhere. :( ::(

Many like me bare the illness caused by production line working where all that matters now is quantity, human robots man the lines, maybe it was always
that way but for someone born in the sixties I only saw the decimation onward from the 1980's.

Sorry, feeling a little down today, everything looks bleak.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Bison_M on January 26, 2021, 05:13:10 AM
I repeat again: I am shocked by such detailization! o_O

Glad you like things so far Alex. 8)

Sorry, feeling a little down today, everything looks bleak.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Hi Pete! :)
Well, in my opinion, now feeling depressed is a normal state for many.
As in the film, sometimes it seems that "Groundhog Day" will last forever ... :(
But, there is a favorite SIM and it saves. ;)

Be healthy and take care of yourself!

I wish you all the best! 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on January 26, 2021, 06:00:18 AM

Well, in my opinion, now feeling depressed is a normal state for many.
As in the film, sometimes it seems that "Groundhog Day" will last forever ... :(

Hello Alex, My illness has been ongoing since 2013, that and the current climate does indeed make it feel like "Groundhog Day" everyday, 24/7,
nothing the medics can do, I am stuck with pain, pills and poverty. ::(

I sometimes think tinkering with the Thorneycroft is all that keeps me going some days, sadly the pain can and does put a stop to that and limits it to small amounts of time, as for the game it is very rarely I take to the sky and if I do it is usually just to test updates such as those you provide, keeps me interested and helps me get through each day. ;)

That is the beauty of our modding sites, always something new comes out and regularly, plenty of new stuff and updates to tinker with even if only briefly. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 03, 2021, 03:23:17 PM
Hello again guys, yet another step along in the process comes together. ;)

I continually forget a small plaque on the front of the alternator/generator so I took a step back to do it:

(https://i.postimg.cc/15MDsJnf/Coles-crane-433.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLwDh6hb)

Nearly there with a couple of studs to hold it in position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nhC9ZZfP/Coles-crane-434.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKvj73M6)

All done, I am not going to try and engrave it, I will dirty it up with the weathering:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2kXPCM/Coles-crane-435.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYJSMD54)

Back to the electrical box, the painting is now complete for what has been done so far:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ncsnhLMB/Coles-crane-436.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfqkCcLt)

With that completed the box was offered up to where it would sit and adjusted into place:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hjyqSFB2/Coles-crane-437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQhLcN1W)

Adding the connectors for the wiring and the wires themselves both sides of the box:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0yR15dT1/Coles-crane-438.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLBx4dQ5)

The added bits were painted up and joined onto the box to make up the completed unit, this would comprise
the retaining ring/clip, box and wires, the poly count was too much to actually add this part of the build
onto the alternator/generator so they are separate units:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zvb48Vpf/Coles-crane-439.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqV57pBR)

And at last into Il-2, seems to be a age since I last added anything, this part of the build certainly was
quite involved in effort and time:

(https://i.postimg.cc/k46dX1g9/Coles-crane-440.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8CfXjDS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2ynRn1WK/Coles-crane-441.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZvYMSKV8)

I think I need a rest after that little lot. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on February 04, 2021, 02:09:34 PM
That´s great, to me it really looks as a gear or chain driven waterpump and genarator/alternator!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: jpten on February 04, 2021, 08:14:17 PM
I can't wait for the engine damage modeling.  Imagine strafing it with a FW-190 and seeing spark plugs, distributor cap and radiator fan go flying.  Steam from the punctured radiator rising as oil puddles on the ground.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 05, 2021, 01:15:13 AM
That´s great, to me it really looks as a gear or chain driven waterpump and genarator/alternator!

Hello Flying H, good to know you feel it looks the part. 8)

As mentioned earlier, without actual drawings and dimensions and going by eye it will not be exact, however, once it is surrounded by
the other parts hopefully the combination of items will help everything blend in. ;)

The game did not like me naming the part "AlternatorGeneratorAndConnections", said it was too long, so for now I omitted Alternator, I
will take another look at things when I next fire it up but it might be you guys need to do some renaming once you have things on
your hard drive just to suit your own tastes. :D

I can't wait for the engine damage modeling.  Imagine strafing it with a FW-190 and seeing spark plugs, distributor cap and radiator fan go flying.  Steam from the punctured radiator rising as oil puddles on the ground.

WHAT. :o

I doubt I have the ability to replicate that little lot for you jpten, maybe a few parts lying around the floor and some burnt paint will have to suffice. ;)

The intention was to only do a new upload when the engine was done, however, I might take a look at preparing one containing what has been shown
so far this weekend, the changes have so far only been added to the R.A.F home version so I would need to update the desert and winter ones accordingly
to include those new details for you all to view at home.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on February 05, 2021, 02:03:59 PM
Master, you can call it Alt/Gen maybe?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 05, 2021, 02:18:47 PM
Master, you can call it Alt/Gen maybe?

Hello Flying H, it is now named AlternatorGenerator, when I got the error the other night I was not sure if the issue was that the alphabetical positioning was upsetting things or as it said the length of the title, anyway it is above the Body mesh in the folders and no problem.  8)

There is now a updated link in the first page. ;)

Please remove the previous folder as there have been extensive changes.

Updated WIP 5th February 2021.

The model now includes various parts added to the engine area since the last update.

The engine top cover has ben portrayed now in a version detached and leaning against the front of the vehicle in the same way as the sides on some.

The moving and static desert vehicles now have the side engine covers removed as this is how many
photographs I have seen show things.

Template for the chassis updated with colouring for engine parts.

The moving vehicle dead model is purely a placeholder so is not damaged or painted as such.

The static objects do not yet have dead versions.

Note:  The parts for the articulated version of the vehicle shown in the thread are still in gmax for development so are not part of this upload.

(https://i.postimg.cc/k4wCgMFr/2021-02-05-17-49-12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgK2DSbT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qt772PpW/2021-02-05-17-49-54.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGVXFs1V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0yHJbxnw/2021-02-05-19-51-37.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4Gp5WZL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mD3DNGYV/2021-02-05-20-33-52.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47dssqFh)

Enjoy.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on February 06, 2021, 02:06:55 PM
Great stuff, many thanks for the updated models.

As others, superb detail, the engine looks fantastic with all the detailing you've done.  Be great to have a realistic sound set, I'll have a look around if you haven't anything already?

Servicing crew dirorama looks good too.

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 07, 2021, 04:20:13 AM
Hello Shessi, glad you like the update, enjoy. 8)

I deliberately left some parts separate to enable users to create dioramas, it gives the model a little more character within the overall scene and provides a little eye candy during taxiing, eventually I will make a few slings and chains set ready to portray various lifting operations. ;)

The intention is to eventually do something similar to what myself and Andrew did for the Yagg update, here I made various ladders and details for the fire engine to help build the scene:

(https://s18.postimg.cc/4u6zu06t5/2018.03.17_13-24-53.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/czp1s5v1x/)

There is a separate download for the above in this thread, part way down the first page:

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,51617.0.html

Besides the Queen Mary I will also do the articulated Thorneycroft tractor unit and trailer so the whole package should eventually make for some interesting scene possibilities if I live that long, even the engine parts could be put onto benches to further enhance the scenes maybe as they are separate. :D

There is also the scope for any new modellers to add the smaller bits such as chains and slings if they wanted to as a starter project as well as tools and such for the vehicle. :)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 12, 2021, 12:28:01 PM
Hello guys, following the upload I thought I better press on otherwise I might get distracted and start tinkering with something else. ;)

First of all though, please check the folders for 'ThorneycroftColesDesert' and ThorneycroftColesWinter in the buildings folder I missed off
the alternator/generator and wiring box from them, you have all the parts so just add them from another folder and add the necessary text
entries and you should be good to go, I hope.  :o
Corrected with a update on the 13th February.

Sorry about that. :-[

Anyway, where we, oh yes onward we go, the bracket that holds the alternator/generator in position came next, I made
some rough shapes with the line tool first up:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PmLCqtT/Coles-crane-442.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhtdWYBy)

Besides that I needed a pad from the engine, and the internal plates that make up the bracket:

(https://i.postimg.cc/K8KcWTKC/Coles-crane-443.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RWBz6NLT)

The original shape for the bracket had extra pieces made for each side of it to make the rounded profile
and also a blanking piece for either side of the shaped section:

(https://i.postimg.cc/YSq5VKy0/Coles-crane-444.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMqHQ8zC)

The various parts are attached and then the vertices welded:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Dw7HJ3h6/Coles-crane-445.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56knTG6Q)

The other side, once made this will be mapped and cloned for the opposite end:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wxhwh40G/Coles-crane-446.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMhKx284)

Selecting the polygons from the centre and using the scale tool to push them out to make the shaped profile:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L6xw10sM/Coles-crane-447.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7swK2JW)

The band that holds the alternator/generator goes over the edge of this bracket and I think through
a gap at the back to hold things in position, not easy to make out from the photographs but I made
separate back and upper plates to replicate how I thought it was threaded through:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PLm6Zmz/Coles-crane-448.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJTd4jPG)

Here they are complete and some nuts and bolts added:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xj3dNHbS/Coles-crane-449.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rrvLzft)

Mapping begins:

(https://i.postimg.cc/LXMHn69X/Coles-crane-450.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9VkQmyt)

Alignment of the various mapped faces:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KcfZ82dG/Coles-crane-451.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23qp0PkM)

Complete:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yN0K44mz/Coles-crane-452.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyGSmnCN)

The strap had to be altered slightly on the alternator/generator so was extracted again to add into the
Thorneycroft folder now so I did not forget later it had been altered, this is where I noticed the problems
mentioned at the beginning of this post. :(

I am starting to think I make things unduly difficult for myself and over complicate things, oh well. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 13, 2021, 05:35:50 AM
Hello again guys, I have updated another version today to put right the issues with what was posted on the 5th, it also
adds the new bracket in the above post. ;)

Apologies for the inconvenience, please remove the previous folder and replace with today's latest update.  :-[

The new bracket for the alternator/generator:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vBmFDdGV/2021-02-13-11-23-38.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KjFFq7f)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on February 18, 2021, 12:41:58 PM
Hello again guys, more brackets this time. :o

The one used to hold the alternator/generator had too many polygons to become part of that item so I left it on its own,
because close by are two more that I thought would be better built later and collected together to make the one object. ;)

As is usual I utilise what is already made to some extent and make new parts to add where necessary, no different here:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMjg6q90/Coles-crane-453.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp5TZddH)

Made in the usual way with the line tool and adding separate sides:

(https://i.postimg.cc/1RK3b4R6/Coles-crane-454.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zr27m7F)

Again, any re-mapping is done when necessary but more usually just moved to free areas of the template
and the new bit mapped and some bolts borrowed from elsewhere:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rsYXcBP6/Coles-crane-455.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FkcnVBvG)

Complete, the part at the top is the start of the what will sit on the bracket later, I was originally thinking
of building the bracket and what is fixed on to it so made a start but later thought better of that to do what
I have now putting all the brackets together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jjqpwdYV/Coles-crane-456.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jD9gBTjv)

While painting I usually try to indicate where the parts have holes in them to allow air, water or whatever
to flow, here was no exception, looking from behind and below:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nLLWVRqp/Coles-crane-457.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhz649Wx)

The last of the trio is a bit longer and required some new ends and a top along with certain other parts
from earlier builds again helping work along:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CFbnqhJ/Coles-crane-458.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDvrdYYT)

The lines used came out the same colour as the existing parts so here you can see them altered to
show the new parts and the borrowed ones:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rsbVgRct/Coles-crane-459.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqGc13d2)

The ends and top welded together ready to map and place on the template, the back piece was new also
but the part in Pale Blue would just need the already mapped parts moved to another area of the template:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hvqWG8Ss/Coles-crane-460.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nMYCqVV)

There is a slope on the engine block that needed to be adjusted once all these brackets were offered up
to the engine as each has what looks to be a casting behind that they bolt to, however, I cannot make out
just exactly how they look but have tried to replicate what I see as best I can and aligned as per the photographs:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j5SnFNV8/Coles-crane-461.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXHKXnx8)

Following the adjustments to the engine block, that and the new three item brackets would be added to the game
to replace the original bracket already added with the alternator/generator, this is why I continually ask you guys
to replace the complete folder when I upload as I continually adjust things:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBZ30rVB/Coles-crane-462.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqkHsNGd)

Getting there, this side of the engine block is now filling up nicely. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 11, 2021, 02:55:17 PM
Hello guys, here we go again with yet another update, a little more coming together. ;)

Moving above the Alternator/generator is what I think is a pump, certainly appears something hydraulic
due to the various fixings and pipes that emanate from the rather solid looking cast assembly, as usual
I have probably got it completely wrong, however, I am sure the usual suspects will pass by and correct
me if I have. :D

It seems to be a cast cylinder with detaching end pieces so I make a start:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jpN520h/Coles-crane-463.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZVF4FX9)

The cylindrical body and some kind of cast on band:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrVWr34Z/Coles-crane-464.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9PmnkYn)

The previous part left over from the bracket assembly will need further adjusting before I finally feel
it fits, I kept messing with this part through the build as it never quite looks right:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rRzhhz/Coles-crane-465.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJYVS48X)

Again, bolts are borrowed from previous areas and cloned and their mapping added to the template
while other new stuff is made:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T3jnNT87/Coles-crane-466.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMXBvdg7)

One other issue all along has been getting the size of the various parts correct and the new part made me
look at what was already there and increase in size and alter positions of those items to finally have
things now look okay when compared to each other and the photographs, this entailed alterations to at
least eight different parts and replacement of them in the existing model but I had been putting it off for
far too long and so took the plunge, still not quite there but I will leave it be now:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qqj2BLLP/Coles-crane-467.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mffnd1g5)

With that out the way I could then steadily carry on with adding various components:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6pd5d3s3/Coles-crane-468.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrkgmTkD)

Most of the bits were about done here, however, again I was not quite happy with the cylinder and band
as they looked a little chunky so would warrant replacement:

(https://i.postimg.cc/R0fRWbxb/Coles-crane-469.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7sdX618)

The improved look, I hope:

(https://i.postimg.cc/02Bdcq8B/Coles-crane-470.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfVdt6QL)

All mapped and painted, the shaft is now separate, it took the object over the limit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DzdGkVTF/Coles-crane-471.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06jjDBjH)

And finally into the engine compartment:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zBvGd4Dx/Coles-crane-472.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7Gv4hs2z)

The engine bulkhead to the cab should actually be smaller and higher as the various cables actually go under it and back into
the cab and the chassis, however, I have left it as is with the cables and pipes ending where you see them as trying to replicate
everything under the cab and going back along the chassis would just be too much to undertake, right now I just want to make
what is in the engine bay to finish off the overall model otherwise it will go on forever, I have to stop somewhere. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on March 12, 2021, 04:49:05 PM
Looking great and I think you´re right that looks like a hydraulic pump.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 13, 2021, 03:04:28 AM
Glad you like it so far Flying H.  8)

I made a start on the shaft linking all this together, it is difficult to tell exactly how it all assembles
so you will have to allow me some artistic licence here:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zT2yPv5/Coles-crane-473.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhfYzVXL)

I fired up today and realised I had missed a pipe behind the pump, that will need to be attached to
something else now as I ran out of polygons:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L4bhKwD2/Coles-crane-474.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4npXp8jS)

Not sure what to do with the part highlighted in Red, it is all hidden behind the flexible pipe, I keep starring
at it and the more I look the more I think maybe I should use those parts from the other side mirrored. :-|

It would make sense, it might not be exactly the same but it ties everything together logically I feel.

Anyway, next up will be that contraption next door:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hhvNqQc/Coles-crane-475.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMCr6Jwb)

It has a funny colour to it, almost like natural metal but stained somehow or burnt, the colouring reminds
me of gear case parts we used to ship out to our train customers when I was in that industry, they were
sent as kits and coated in something called tecktill, not sure how to spell that as it was a long time ago, the
stuff would later be cleaned off at the assembly stage and paint applied where necessary, here though just
not sure why it is coloured as is, another conundrum, one of many on this beast. :D

I assume with all the metal tubes coming out the top of it that this is the ignition system, is it me or is this
engine like none you ever saw before?  I have been around machines all my life it seems, usually I can figure
out what is what when I look at them, here I need help from you guys to educate me. ;)

Going to take in the football today and tomorrow, give my arms and fingers a complete rest for a few days.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on March 13, 2021, 06:36:04 AM
That is a dieselpump and it can be stained by spill from opening the injectorpipes (but that doesn´t seem the case as the whole pump + the back end has the same color)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 13, 2021, 08:58:12 AM
That is a dieselpump and it can be stained by spill from opening the injectorpipes (but that doesn´t seem the case as the whole pump + the back end has the same color)

Thank you very much for the information Flying H, really appreciated. 8)

The colour is baffling to me, never seen anything quite like it, if it is not purposely stained in any way then it must be a natural
machined/moulded metal untreated/unpainted, so can we just assume it to have aged and dirtied/discoloured over time?

Anyway, at least I now know what to call it thanks to you when I get around to building the thing. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 16, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Hello again guys, just a quick one today. ;)

Joining the dots so to speak, added the missing pipe and the drive shaft between the pump and as
yet to build Diesel injector:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8ch60nd6/Coles-crane-476.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tn4J1kMq)

The part was mapped and then cloned before being rotated to fill the space up front where all these

(https://i.postimg.cc/NMtYxJ0V/Coles-crane-477.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xk6WfPMy)

Paint applied to the sections of the shaft in front and behind the pump to finish this small build before I
move on to the Diesel injector:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GmPXyqZ9/Coles-crane-478.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4B7RL8d)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 25, 2021, 04:12:30 PM
Okay then, next up is the diesel injector, could be quite a challenge. 8)

Off we go, form a basic shape to begin and build from there:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8cWRq9x9/Coles-crane-479.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHrHX6r5)

There seems quite a lot of work at the top of the basic body with the injectors and bolts around the top
so I begin there.  All the bolts are newly made this time, a little more detailed around the edges as here the
overall shapes are more evident, not coated in the mass of paint like others.

Also attempted was what appears to be some kind of locking washers, although I cannot see exactly how all
this fits together the shapes most likely have holes back and front shaped as per the nuts so they fit over them,
reminds me of those small tools in a bicycle repair kit with all the various nut sizes cut in, two each of these are
attached to a pillar at the back with a nut:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VNc3pPpQ/Coles-crane-480.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DSBj4H7B)

A closer look at these parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CKN62Bbk/Coles-crane-481.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1g8HnzC3)

Mapping has started with the main body shapes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/N0ppDhwx/Coles-crane-482.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtRXxGMt)

Colouring is a problem here, as mentioned earlier I do not know if this the natural tint of the bare metal
or a protective coating applied to it but I tried to get something from the image with the colour picker
after posting part of the image into Photoshop, does not really capture the look but for now I will live
with it as is:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hMV5jX7/Coles-crane-483.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6qnYbPM)

Each of the injectors and their locking devices were cloned following mapping of each part to make the
row of six and then painted accordingly after positioning on the template, the pipes were also made and
put roughly where they will be eventually once the exhaust pipes are in place:

(https://i.postimg.cc/85wcsHMc/Coles-crane-484.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YGGMsQXB)

There is still quite a lot of detail to do to finish this but a good start has been made and will allow me to
make further progress during the week. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on March 28, 2021, 10:12:10 AM
Hi Pete,
Detail, detail, detail!!

Fuel injector pump coming on nicely.  A couple of things....Oh! for an exploded diagram of that engine...how much would you pay me??! lol

And just my thoughts/obs..Looking at it now, it looks as though the green cylindrical pump to the front of the engine is either chain or gear driven (there wouldn't be belts inside the engine) from inside the bell housing at the front, possibly a hydraulic fluid pump, the drive goes through that on the shaft to the fuel pump behind, driving that.  I think the extra hexagonal pieces of metal around each injector head are just locking rings to stop the injectors from unscrewing themselves.

I'm still looking for an engine manual for you, as I'm interested in how it all functions as well! :)

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 28, 2021, 12:31:24 PM
Oh! for an exploded diagram of that engine...how much would you pay me??! lol

Hello Shessi, I have a link to the Imperial War Museum, there is a drivers manual listed, however, last I tried it did not actually take me to where I could buy it and besides that how much detail would there be, the best I could hope for is explanations of various things we have talked about here. ;)

And just my thoughts/obs..Looking at it now, it looks as though the green cylindrical pump to the front of the engine is either chain or gear driven (there wouldn't be belts inside the engine) from inside the bell housing at the front, possibly a hydraulic fluid pump, the drive goes through that on the shaft to the fuel pump behind, driving that.

Glad you like the pump and injector, I actually feel I am now getting close to the end. :o 8)

The front of the pump is obscured by the rubber pipe so I cannot tell just what is there so basically doubled up using the detail that was visible to fill in what I cannot see, my thoughts are that it could in some way be connected to the spindle and pulley used for the fan but a chain or gear has equal merit, I just need a clear photograph with that pipe removed to see what is there, for now I used what I had to avoid leaving a gap unattached to anything. ;)

Those locking rings were difficult to figure out, I enlarged the image as far as I could and looking at that there seemed to be two separate ones, one below the other
but held by the same post and nut to both injectors, three posts to six injectors, again, best I can do for now. :D

I'm still looking for an engine manual for you, as I'm interested in how it all functions as well! :)

A manual would be amazing if one can be found, cost for me is a issue right now, however, if something along the cost of a Haynes then I would probably take the plunge just to answer all our questions and put us all out our misery. :)

Those images from Belfast have been priceless I think you have to say, without them much of this would not have been possible, maybe better I have no manual as this build could go another year especially if the crane cab was also featured.

I have been doing a little today but will save the images for next time.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on March 29, 2021, 01:59:19 PM
A thought Pete, do you know the manufacturer of the engine? Can they have prints or schemes of the engine or of similar contraptions?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on March 30, 2021, 04:06:46 AM
A thought Pete, do you know the manufacturer of the engine? Can they have prints or schemes of the engine or of similar contraptions?

Hello Flying H, unfortunately no, I cannot even make out any legible text on the engine itself, the only
thing there is that might have given some clue is here on the tanks at the top but as much as I try to
enlarge the image the less I can make out under all the rust and dirt of its former life:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tR6FXtyZ/4636818458-848x638.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Back then many companies actually made their own unlike today, I worked for Leyland Trucks some
years ago, they are all that is left of the old commercial vehicle manufacturers and they bought the
majority of the components from abroad while I was there, we just assembled and supplied parts.
The very last Foden Alpha went off our line at the time before all production switched to D.A.F types,
that was in effect the last of all the old independent manufactures types disappearing into history. :(

There is a vehicle museum in Leyland, the Alpha went there, maybe they or the plant itself might still
retain all the old documentation from past manufacturers that have been swallowed up by what is now
actually D.A.F. and Paccar here in my region, one of these days I will actually take a trip out to the
museum and see just what is available, until then the internet is all I have. :D

A link also exists to the Thorneycroft company historical site, I have looked there for information but
there is little other than a historical breakdown of what was made, it might mention any suppliers if
I read everything, the crane was from Coles obviously so maybe if I dig deep enough I might find
something, other than that the only thing that comes to mind are any local owners who might have
a preserved example they drive around the country to the various shows in the summer months. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 14, 2021, 06:17:28 AM
Hello guys, it has been some time since I posted anything on this project, helping others with theirs and
finally sorting one of my own that had been left for far too long has kept me away. :o

So, where were we?   Seems so long ago now, there is dust and spiders all over place, months I guess. :D

From memory I seemed to remember I was making the drain piece and other parts of the diesel injector body
and digging through my pictures it seems that is where I had actually left things:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxMGW11H/Coles-crane-485.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLxRswLn)

Opening things up earlier today I found I had managed to map them to the template as well before putting things
aside but I felt there was a need to re-size the diesel injector body and its parts, time away from a project gives
you a chance to take a fresh look at it and making things just from photographs will always produce a few oddities
so when you finally look back at past parts of the build there is a fresh appreciation of such issues and as such I
have now altered things accordingly and I feel happy with things so far.  8)

So, with a re-size of things and those bits painted this is where it is at as of now:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vTns0SDG/Coles-crane-486.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2QSMD1n)

Hopefully I will now press on without further delay. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on May 17, 2021, 04:29:28 AM
Hi Pete,
Now the injector system is nearly done, you'll soon get the ol' girl going....

From the older post, the engine is certainly of their own make....1944 - producing six-cylinder 7,883 cc (99 bhp at 1,800 rpm) and a four-cylinder 5,255 cc (62 bhp at 1,700 rpm) diesel engines & in WW2 produced around 5,000 vehicles for the War Department including the 4x4 Nubian and Amazon models.

Good stuff!

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 17, 2021, 06:00:29 AM
From the older post, the engine is certainly of their own make....1944 - producing six-cylinder 7,883 cc (99 bhp at 1,800 rpm) and a four-cylinder 5,255 cc (62 bhp at 1,700 rpm) diesel engines & in WW2 produced around 5,000 vehicles for the War Department including the 4x4 Nubian and Amazon models.

Hello Shessi, thank you very much for the information, really appreciated. 8)

From my own experience of working in both railway and truck manufacturing, the companies I worked for in earlier days had actually manufactured much of the equipment they used themselves so it seemed to me most likely that Thorneycroft would have done the same back then. ;)

During my years in the above industries I think one of the few engine types I saw were specialist Caterpillar engines, diesel types that seemed to be outside of the usual purchasing scheme of things for equipment usually fitted, maybe customers specified those, it could have been possible that even in the time period of our vehicle there just might have been the possibility that Thorneycroft would purchase something from others but it does seem unlikely, I think the normal route would have been Thorneycroft issuing licences for their models to built by other companies.

Anyway, I can honestly say mine has all its components made in the same place. :D

I never fully bought into this global economy stuff, look at what is happening now with the pandemic, plants are stopped awaiting deliveries from China and such. ::(

Just a couple more images while I am here of the ongoing work.

I made a new front plate as a closer look at the photograhs showed a radius at the bottom:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPNV8PwR/Coles-crane-487.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfbJcgc2)

The new stuff has been mapped and painted and a check made to see that everything aligned, there
was some adjustment necessary but nothing major thankfully:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qqhzg2ph/Coles-crane-488.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Fkv9BddN)

And into the game for a test, the injector pipes will be adjusted later and there is a securing bolt
I forgot to add to the injector body that holds it into the bracket:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BZMMPVF9/Coles-crane-489.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MXfyhttd)

There are quite a few attached items still to make for the injector as well as the rear casting so that will
keep me out of mischief for a while.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 23, 2021, 12:58:11 PM
Hello again guys, a little further forward. 8)

Following the last post from Shessi I decided to see if I could actually find some specific information
on Thorneycroft engines, sadly mainly dead ends although in a round about route I found myself on
a Wiki page devoted to Diesel engines and there found two illustrations of a cut away engine that
has certain parts similar to what I am building. :o

This is a four cylinder I think and only shows the left side, sadly there was no information I could see
as to who actually made it but it does give give you a good look inside:

(https://i.postimg.cc/s2TF6GrD/Model-Engine-Luc-Viatour.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3SgkLy6)

Looking at the diesel injector parts you can see the similarity to what I have been making for the Thorneycroft,
unfortunately the only information was that for the photographer no indication as to who made the engine/cutaway
or its use but it posed certain questions:

Was it actually a Thorneycroft variant and where was this cutaway photographed?

If not a Thorneycroft are the injector parts standard for this type of engine, could they be a patented item from another manufacturer?

Anyway, I will leave you with those questions and carry on building, too much thinking hurts my brain. :D

There are various parts attached to the side of the injector body that seems be be part of a plate that bolts
to the side, a cast part on the body with what I think to be a gasket and then the plate:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yYWNFRwj/Coles-crane-490.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5qYtKG2)

Next what I assume is a filler plug maybe for oil or some type of lubricant:

(https://i.postimg.cc/NMftQqtD/Coles-crane-491.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/063FC4bK)

There are three of these valves that are part of what looks to be copper pipes, possibly for the fuel:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bJv7Kx0F/Coles-crane-492.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mc0p9F5Q)

Mapped and painted before cloning:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SR9kvLkb/Coles-crane-493.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/y37MJZDL)

A series of shapes under construction to make the body of this injector:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvMXfG6y/Coles-crane-494.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7CgtgL8d)

And some kind of regulator that clips on:

(https://i.postimg.cc/x85tYh0v/Coles-crane-495.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnWz48n2)

As usual I utilise whatever I can to save me making new stuff, here I separate the ready made nuts and
bolts ready to re-map them to other areas of the template and those already newly painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j2Sy65bf/Coles-crane-496.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gX1wmGrc)

Final pieces coming together for this particular construction, pipes and other additions will be added later
once I map and paint what I have:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxDkYSKL/Coles-crane-497.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9tH3rCm)

Enough already, time to catch the last match of the season. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on May 26, 2021, 03:19:21 PM
Hi Pete,
Great picture of a 4 cylinder diesel.

Found a few leads...I didn't see this before but there is a Thornycroft register (all things Thornycroft...surprsingly! lol)  https://www.thornycroft.org.uk/New%20Gallery.htm

This the pic galley and halfway down are the engines, and I think your is a CR6 or maybe a QR6.  Top right is an email contact list, I'm sure if you asked, someone would be only too happy to help.

Also found some Thornycroft engine brochures..https://www.internalfire.com/paper.php?cat=7

If you type in Thorncroft in the search box it gives you a number of Thornycroft ones, I DL'd the CR6 and QR versions, which are from the late 50's but have the same layout as your's.

Found comments on an old forum post that the petrol engine was an AC6 and the diesel was an NR8.  The attached pic is of the info plate with the Elvington Amazon, which would suggest it should have a petrol engine. And, the old post suggests the SWB model should also be a petrol engine and the LWB could be either petrol or diesel.  Your post title includes AC6, but you're doing a diesel engine for it?!  But does it matter??, I bet they made SWB Amazon Coles crane's with siesel engines as well.

Confused?!...I know I am....phew.....

Cheers

Shessi

ps Last day of footie was great wasn't it.

(https://i.postimg.cc/rs18PMDJ/Amazon-Crane-spec.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D4zkWVdJ)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 27, 2021, 02:47:40 AM
Hello Shessi, thank you very much for the links and update really appreciated. 8)

To build the engine all I had that gave any clear indication of the complete engine were those photographs from the Belfast restoration, that vehicle is also the long wheel base, not that I noticed when I started this, so you are equally as confused as me. :D

I was forced to use what was available and to be honest I did not really know what type of engine it was, you guys have had to correct my imaginings all through this build, consider my model something along the lines of a restoration project where good parts are hard to find so what came to hand was assembled and used, this got a short wheel base and Diesel engine to represent all the variants. :o

For the most part I would assume there is quite a lot of commonality within the engine bay with changes where necessary to accommodate the various engine types, the drivers side has a lot of covered ports that I figured where for a right hand drive but might equally be alterations necessary for the petrol version so I am eager to see these engine brochures you mention, if they are so fundamentally different I will have to build another engine just for the rivet counters amongst us. o_O

The purists could just use the full engine cover provided on the short base they have, hide the engine, there sorted. ;)

You might yet get a long and short with different engine types, I could actually lengthen the base as a quick fix, that would not be much fun though, f### this could go on indefinitely, where you actually waiting for the Queen Mary and its tractor unit?

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on May 28, 2021, 04:29:56 AM
Hi Pete,
Just wanted to say that my previous post was not questioning or criticising what you were doing, and I appreciate you're not taking it that way..;)

Yes, the NI refurbished vehicle, that you started your as your reference vehicle, is a LWB version, this has and could have a diesel engine; the Elvington vehicle, a SWB, as the placard states is a petrol engine, which both are correct from what the forums say.  As you say apart from the chassis, there can't be many differences between a petrol or diesel engined vehicle spec, and agreed the engine compartment must be the same.

I am really surprised there isn't more (any!) literature about the Amazon/Coles vehicles and cranes?!

I'd bet a lot of money though, there were diesel engined manufactured or re-engined (in the 'field') SWB vehicles used during the war, so every combo of chassis and engine is correct. ]thumleft[

And yes you can always close the engine compartment covers! ha!

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on May 28, 2021, 10:52:01 AM
I am really surprised there isn't more (any!) literature about the Amazon/Coles vehicles and cranes?!

Hello Shessi, this has surprised me also. :o

It is possible the various museums have some literature to go with their particular vehicles but to be honest when I last went to visit any aviation related venue it was the aircraft that were my primary focus not the support equipment. :-[

Most of the photographs I have seen of various Amazons essentially seem to have the same engine as the one in Belfast, it might be that most that went on to civilian careers were the Diesel type, from a commercial viewpoint they might have been the more popular, hence why the little information we have come across is very similar although we have seen vehicles range from pristine to dilapidated. ;)

Until I have some clear evidence to show any major alterations I am forced by necessity to carry on as I am, hopefully in time a good photograph of the petrol engine will emerge or a document might turn up, both long and short are seen in wartime and peacetime images so they might have occupied the same production line with customer requirements determining just what and how many were made at any time.

I took a look at those brochures, sadly from a model building perspective there was little there other than you could see the similarity of some to what I am trying to make, I really did not imagine just how many versions of petrol and diesel engines this company actually made, no wonder we cannot find enough for this project as it is knowing exactly where to look, some good information in the brochures for the techies like yourself though and certainly worth a look.

The other site I have already seen, however, I had not noticed the sub headings for different sections, the rusty engine is definite favorite there, again though so little to actually see considering how many thousands of trucks they must have produced, I still think private collectors might be the way to go but finding them is the issue.

Anyway, thank you very much for trying, it all helps and is really appreciated. 8)

So, on it goes with what information I have, mapping of some of what you saw last time:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DztDnjCL/Coles-crane-498.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PLQKM4n5)

With paint applied:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mgrCgTJW/Coles-crane-499.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Vd3d7PzK)

It was time to deal with some of the pipework from the injector so again I turned to previously made items
to see what could be converted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/2893Thcg/Coles-crane-500.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdMYkrcF)

I had to extend the exhaust upwards so I could get a better idea of where things went, here a piece is added:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GhtmB9LK/Coles-crane-501.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5hcSsr2)

First piece of pipe adapted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zt8LmZr/Coles-crane-502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhkSYrPq)

New mapping as there had been some considerable tweaking:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nhVgVQnV/Coles-crane-503.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVM00vL4)

The pipes and fittings would ultimately become two separate meshes mixing and matching things to bring
the poly count to roughly equal with various brackets and screws thrown in:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJXtdWSY/Coles-crane-504.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2vMk2ph)

The whole lot painted and ready for extracting:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MTsX4BZc/Coles-crane-505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQhVGvhy)

And finally into the game for a trial fit, all was okay:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sgcBSbF9/Coles-crane-506.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKKfvJj5)

Not sure just what area to focus on next, maybe take a day or two away from things first. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on June 02, 2021, 06:02:57 AM
Hi Pete,
The fuel pump/filter that you've just done, and the whole injector unit is superb, the colour is spot on, escpecially when you see it in the sim with a bit of shine/reflection on it.

I'm not causing you more work, honest!, but that engine detail quality really shows up the 'hexagonal' front wheel tyres, the hubs are great...but the tyres.......

And so the search goes on...

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 02, 2021, 06:38:55 AM
Hello Shessi, glad you like it all so far. 8)

If memory serves the wheels are a set of six and are just below the polygon threshold for the mesh and it would mean making and mapping them all over again and separating them into more parts so at least for now I will leave as is, sorry but I do not need the added work right now. ;)

I did not realise just how much detail I would incorporate when I started this, the thought the engine would get as detailed as it did never entered my mind, best bet is don't look too closely at the external detail it might disappoint, through a gunsight is close enough. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on June 02, 2021, 12:49:22 PM
Don´t you think the "hexagonal" tires gives a better grip on slippery surface?  :D :D ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 03, 2021, 05:40:43 AM
Don´t you think the "hexagonal" tires gives a better grip on slippery surface?  :D :D ;D

Absolutely Flying H, this baby will go anywhere, anytime, no problem. :D

Strange thing is with these wheels the back set actually look to be more smooth in appearance yet they are supposed to be the chunky ones, maybe the texture on the front highlights the shape more because of the normal type thread. :o

When I get around to finishing this off I will have to revisit the wheels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yYDy39JF/Thorneycroft-artic.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GH1yZ4x2)

What I would call the civilian types have smaller rear wheels more in line with the front, intended more for
normal road use rather than military types that might spend their working lives off road.

Anyway, you all know how my attention is easily diverted so I have to continue with the engine, once that
is finished there will be the opportunity to revisit certain areas, some things will need to be altered and parts
integrated with others to bring the piece count down a little, where currently I have some meshes that are
very low in polys the hope is to join those with similar items if possible to make less items but all close to the
mesh limit if I can, we will see later what if anything can be achieved, for now I have to focus on the engine
in order to at least get that part of the build finished hopefully without too much further distraction.  ;)

No promises, this thing has taken a great deal of time as is, I still have the other vehicles in the set to do as well
remember. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 11, 2021, 10:37:24 AM
Hello again guys, more of the parts coming together. ;)

This is the rear to the Diesel injector body, it seems to be two separate castings:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxjkMvZM/Coles-crane-507.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p59W8QkC)

It is hard to see exactly what the very rear looks like but I put something together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9p75kzS/Coles-crane-508.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1m86Kf0)

Most of the lumps and bumps constructed or borrowed from previous assemblies:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SRJB4K2m/Coles-crane-509.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K3hqrxDW)

I assume this large plugged hole is giving access to the chamber for some type of lubricant:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3NGHpRKn/Coles-crane-510.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ctdjGdtn)

The screw cap under assembly:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MGL4DS34/Coles-crane-511.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FhtpqSB)

Mapping underway, I usually x-form all the parts before I start otherwise some odd things happen with
shapes during the process, the x-form essentially locks in their shape especially if things have been stretched
or altered from their original and helps all the parts conform to a set size:

(https://i.postimg.cc/02JNdkWg/Coles-crane-512.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bPx9s1Z)

The whole assembly painted and joined together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/c1v32N9h/Coles-crane-513.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XX0XBt0B)

There are still some parts to add to complete this area but the main body shapes are all now done leaving
only some kind of switch mechanism and rods, following that the exhaust system as the only major set of
shapes still to construct, most other things still to make are cables, bolts and pipes to join all the dots together
to complete after that. : 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 19, 2021, 12:58:43 PM
Hello again guys, detailing of the injector unit continues. ;)

Before I carried on it had again become obvious certain things did not quite scale, this has
dogged me throughout the engine build so more adjusting was done by using the best image
I had as far as a side view goes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xTqZRkmk/Coles-crane-514.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppbkVLqx)

Construction could then continue of the lever mechanism on the side of the rear casting:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtxmdPkB/Coles-crane-515.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/McNVs9Lx)

There were quite a few parts necessary to build this and construction here is going at a pace:

(https://i.postimg.cc/65dMzd3p/Coles-crane-516.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp3j35gz)

The overall workings are hidden behind the exhaust so some areas were difficult to see and construct
but I joined things together as best I could, if further information becomes available I will modify accordingly:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4y3XwJvJ/Coles-crane-517.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLdWnfwy)

With all the parts made on to mapping:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nVWyNYpK/Coles-crane-518.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNmVwDLN)

With a majority of parts mapped they are exported to the unwrap program:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQzqGKkK/Coles-crane-519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XXkS0mk2)

From there to Paint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLQ8dBpf/Coles-crane-520.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCX91NRm)

There is a rocker arm or something again hidden behind the exhaust with little detail visible so as usual
I improvised and made it up as I went along just so it is actually attached to something so at least it
looks plausible, again, if information is found I will alter accordingly:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PJM2fj08/Coles-crane-521.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Fk7jG2r9)

And into game to see how it looks so far:

(https://i.postimg.cc/G38bm3ys/Coles-crane-523.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDYbWYnq)

Next up is the exhaust system, I have begun looking at just how it attaches and started construction
so that will keep me out of mischief again for a while:

(https://i.postimg.cc/1XYVr7qj/Coles-crane-522.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wRLB6VFX)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on June 19, 2021, 04:28:09 PM
Looking great Pete. You were asking (or wondering) some time ago about the big dark screw on the injector body. Been working on dieasel engines in the -90s, I thingk it´s a port for adjusting the timing of the injection of fuel into the cylinders, if I rememeber right.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 20, 2021, 03:04:24 AM
Looking great Pete. You were asking (or wondering) some time ago about the big dark screw on the injector body. Been working on dieasel engines in the -90s, I thingk it´s a port for adjusting the timing of the injection of fuel into the cylinders, if I rememeber right.

Hello Flying H, thank you very much for the info, really appreciated. 8)

The engine bay is getting close to completion now thankfully, the exhaust system looks to be the most difficult
to do but the rest should be relatively easier. ;)

These are what I will still need to do after the exhaust, I think this is likely something for the oil level
and there is also a large tank besides it:

(https://i.postimg.cc/d3hvsf1k/Coles-crane-524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D43R5B1n)

Also on this side are a couple of pipes and the angle pieces to hold the engine covers and maybe
a few bits of the wiring on the bulkhead:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cHpZJm8F/Coles-crane-525.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFwxW08Z)

Once they are done I will do a little more on the driver side to add a few things there:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRJHHhP0/Coles-crane-526.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Snb7sHky)

With those out of the way we can I think consider it done as far as adding detail, I will not add all the
bits of wire and pipe I can see just enough to fill the spaces, after that it will be any refining  I think
necessary.

I will leave you with this shot, I am trying to replicate the casting side that the exhaust will bolt
on to:

(https://i.postimg.cc/05VFZZNF/Coles-crane-527.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjmdC6Yz)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on June 30, 2021, 01:48:15 PM
Hello again guys, the engine exhaust system is now done. :o

This is the part of the build I thought would be a real pain and it did not disappoint. :D

As mentioned previously first up was to try and replicate the casting the exhaust bolts
on to at the side of the engine block:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cLvG1qbm/Coles-crane-528.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRpQJ2YB)

The pink is the cast part and the circular shapes the recesses for the screw bolt:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FKxZ2zVn/Coles-crane-529.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKrw3sjQ)

Not exactly sure what those are for, nothing new there, they could be some kind of adjusting screw
or maybe just attach that part of the casting to another:

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4c5yt97/Coles-crane-530.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ykxZt612)

The separate pads are what are welded to the exhaust in order to bolt the exhaust in place:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nL6DSt6w/Coles-crane-531.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZs5d9Mj)

Six ports altogether:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GmtTc2R5/Coles-crane-532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zgyn9bY)

Mapped and painted, the darker bits are to represent the hole into the engine block:

(https://i.postimg.cc/brF8Lq5Z/coles-crane-533.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ctYVLG0W)

Here is a photograph close in showing what I am trying to reproduce, the pads have a strengthening piece
and holes to accept the bolts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zfpQT06B/Coles-crane-534.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7knYmqP)

Here is the finished assembly mapped and awaiting paint, also done are the plates to attach the stack
to the remaining pipe:

(https://i.postimg.cc/t49QPZJB/Coles-crane-535.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHYyZMp7)

Painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RFk20q2Q/Coles-crane-536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj13RVFC)

The exhaust itself is a rather odd shape that I will fabricate in sections using a existing pipe that will
be re-mapped later:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QdY4tHT9/Coles-crane-537.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1LrpcQx)

These pipes were really fiddly, it is hard to get a exact shape because they are bent and twisted in
some areas and there is a flat side to the longer part that is difficult to replicate but I tried:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Gh5GTYXC/Coles-crane-538.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn3nfw9S)

The injectors had to be adjusted to fit around and through the exhaust, this was really frustrating but
was done now to try and get placement of the pipes somewhere near:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3rbdthmj/Coles-crane-539.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5jL4tZPj)

The shape as close as my ability allowed:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mDp2p3zZ/Coles-crane-540.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yg9HkZy2)

Mapping and painting what I had:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLCL4CY1/Coles-crane-541.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnGW2rXB)

I changed the colour of the exhaust to something closer to the photographs, I do not know what the
original colour was, Black or Silver maybe but they very soon deteriorate to rust once in use as the
heat damages the paint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/XYxJy0jy/Coles-crane-542.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRBYWXfF)

And finally into game to see what it looked like, I forgot to x-form the exhaust so it was necessary
to replace that again and some other bits that needed adjustment:

(https://i.postimg.cc/2SjjYXQj/Coles-crane-543.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn5bqst1)

Sorry for the length of this update, it has been done in dribs and drabs in between the football and other
things and I had not noticed how many images I had accumulated. o_O

Not much left to do now to finish the build, it has certainly been a long haul but we are getting there. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 01, 2021, 08:54:47 PM
Wow!the detail on that engine is amazing.You really know your way around gmax. I have gmax and I am quite familiar with 3dmax. Unfortunately my 3dmax version only works on xp. I now force myself to work in blender because its free with regular updates.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 02, 2021, 03:04:02 AM
Glad to know you like my detailing so far rogeroger. 8)

I would not say I know my way around gmax as such, there is much I have not used, however, from watching tutorials by those who do I have found a number of techniques/tools that seem to be relied on more than others and they get used over and again. ;)

Some time ago I installed Blender, sadly I never could really get going with it not sure why, I think it fair to say it is far and away in advance of what gmax offers, however, I seem able to do enough with gmax for IL-2 and actually like the way it works so I am able to do what I need to with it.  I bought a tutorial from a Polish Modeller for the P-40, beautiful model he had made and the Adobe booklet was a amazing piece of work, unfortunately to me it just seemed there was just too much information to take in for my attention span and so it sits on the backup drive awaiting a time I can actually give it the full focus it deserves.

Many years ago I gave up on most of my modding to just focus on building in 3d, hence this overly detailed Thorneycroft, if I ever finish this particular project I might get around to trying Blender again. :o

Strange that your 3ds max only works on XP, gmax is a stripped down version and so far has continued to work through various updates to Windows 10, I do miss XP, to me I think everything went backward after that, it was far more user friendly, progress I guess but not as I know it. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 02, 2021, 03:55:45 AM
3dmax6 is my version, so it is quite old. I initially used blender 2.49 for il2 and then moved to 2.79 for modelling, and exporting with 2.76 because it has a great msh exporter.

Blender 2.46 was the only package that would work for Bob2wov  models so I was forced to learn how to use it.
They changed the latest blender 2.80 ui, so now its just as confusing as when I first learned to use blender, especially for an old fart like myself. So for now I'll stick to version 2.76/2.79.  It is a pity that gmax has such limited functionality otherwise I would definitely prefer to use it for future projects.

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 02, 2021, 05:01:40 AM
Hello rogeroger, I was saving to buy 3ds max some years ago and then they moved the goal posts, now you can only rent or get a student licence so I was left with only gmax or Blender due to them being free to use, so now many who might wish to learn 3d modelling on that program are unable unless they can find a course close by and they can afford it, last I looked there is nothing near me, Glasgow or Birmingham I think, and as all advertised courses are to degree level and I cannot even find anything that is just some kind of foundation course I am where I am, what there is are online, again degree courses, last I looked the cost was around six thousand pounds, how is anyone supposed to be able to afford training anyhow?

I am now 58 and unemployed due to illness, what chance do I have to learn new skills?

Blender it seems is going to be the only option now left that allows those with no financial support who want to make a start in 3d modelling, irrespective of whether they want to just model anything in general for fun or make stuff for games, as with most things even that is forever altering and it feels like you need to learn it all over again with each successive update, it then requires someone to make new tools so we can all use it. o_O

On top of that as you mention each game out there uses a different type of 3d program or will only accept certain versions of any particular one. ::(

Sorry for bitching. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 02, 2021, 07:04:21 AM
Prices are damn ridiculous these days, no wonder some resort to piracy.

I was just looking at Blender reviews and they are up to version 2.93 and it seems the ui has been improved. check the review here:https://develop3d.com/visualisation/blender-2-9-review/ (https://develop3d.com/visualisation/blender-2-9-review/)
Blender uses a node system that I am not familiar with. I am able to do basic modelling without using them though. I will probably read up on using them one day.  ;D There are stacks of video tutorials and I've always managed to find out stuff using google. I find that 2.79 is a lot more user friendly than older versions and I am now going to give 2.93 a try.
Quote
I am now 58 and unemployed due to illness, what chance do I have to learn new skills?
You are never too old to learn new skills. At 58, two years ago I decided to take up classical violin and I turned 60 last month and the quality of my screeching and squawking has definitely improved. :)) If you can do the  amazing modelling that you've done in this thread  you should be able to get going in newer versions of blender. ]thumright[
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 02, 2021, 07:51:49 AM
I turned 60 last month and the quality of my screeching and squawking has definitely improved. :))

Is that possible?

My Grandfather had one, he used to drive everyone mad with it, thankfully he did not persevere too long. :D  Some things we have to be born to I guess. ;)

I do have a few tutorials lying around on the P.C., I cannot find anything locally in book form, I prefer to sit in the arm chair to read. :D

Like many I like to tinker and just learn that way, the hard way, I have done all kinds of structured training in the past all of it no use to me now but I will some time soon actually sit and read through something on Blender, I have seen some beautiful art work done with it and it is now even becoming the tool of choice even for game makers, thank you for the link, really appreciated. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 04, 2021, 10:55:33 AM
Hello guys, another little update for the ongoing project. ;)

This is another area I was not sure I actually felt confident to do but finally I had no choice
its time had come. :D

There is a rubber pipe crossing from the engine into the fan shroud and so I began by trying to replicate
the shape of a segment of it first in two parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BbGwjYgt/Coles-crane-544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YnmGmDM)

These two shapes were joined together by welding the vertices around each diameter, there is a trick that came
from a tutorial I have seen where you bring both sets of vertices together after attaching the shapes to each other
and then set a gap option as you can see on the right of the image.  When you activate the select button it then
grabs only the vertices right next to each all around the diameter and saves messing with each one in turn, careful
though I have had to do again once or twice in the past because I did not have them aligned correctly:

(https://i.postimg.cc/tCq28Vm0/Coles-crane-545.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bd5xtdhL)

The original shape was cloned a few times and joined to the rest before I checked the poly limit, ouch,
a bit much just for the pipe and the recycled clips from another part of the build.  I had got each circular
shape smoother than was really necessary:

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPMk7Nz0/Coles-crane-546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DS6dm6y4)

Going through the process again was tedius but brought things to a more manageable poly count:

Some other parts were as always borrowed from earlier builds to build the overall part as well as adding
a new pipe you will see later.  I am not clear on what the rear of the pipe should look like, does it stop
part way along or carry on farther along is difficult to see so I left it as you see:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mDhmpcL3/Coles-crane-547.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bRdVSB3)

While looking through my references to find something to indicate where the pipe goes I was finally able to
answer, at least I think so, a question asked earlier about company logos on the engine and there is a plaque
on the upper engine that previously I could not see as clearly but when I zoomed in I think it fair to say that
spells Thorneycroft:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FzN7sSY3/Coles-crane-549.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The word seems to have stylized 'T' at either end which I earlier thought was actually part of the border
on the plaque.

Also, thanks to a note from Mike (Zflyer) who mentioned the plugs with square drive holes in them were
actually left over from the moulding process and used to help the liquid cast flow more easily following which
they would be threaded and the plug added, apparently they tend to leak a lot in service though. :o

Anyway, on we go. :D

The pipe when you look at in the photographs moves steadily upwards and sidewards, difficult to replicate
just by moving vertices so I used the FFD modifier to at least give me something close and then further
developed the shape by grabbing vertices or groups of polygons:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CKvRL5jQ/Coles-crane-550.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKMG0ZpP)

And finally, the finished part after mapping and painting the new meshes:

(https://i.postimg.cc/q7tTyvPY/Coles-crane-551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7KpKwtm)

There is a similar pipe I made earlier in the build that should have been like this but to add it into that earlier
build would take the poly level overboard and necessitate breaking that into two items so for now I have a
spare ready in case I eventually go that way.

I think the hardest shapes have now been done so it is a matter now of building the few remaining items
in the engine bay to finish the actual build. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 06, 2021, 08:27:37 PM
Nice work! ]thumright[
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: vonofterdingen on July 06, 2021, 10:44:37 PM
Just wanted to take a moment Pete and tell you that I am really enjoying this thread. What a journey you have taken us on!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 07, 2021, 04:45:43 AM
Hello guys, glad you like things so far. 8)

It has dragged on for much longer than I imagined it would when I started but I wanted to let you
guys see the build as I went along to hopefully learn from my mistakes but also to have a chance
for those with much more experience than me to post in if they felt I had done things wrong and help
answer questions from me as well as others who wanted to try 3d modelling, that way we all benefit. ;)

Here is the pipe installed, I forgot this in the last post:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z5fG3vXx/2021-07-05-09-09-41.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyg2Yvzy)

Most of the major parts are done so now I will just add the few things that still need attention, there is a pipe
that comes out of the shroud, but cannot I find where it goes, I looked at all the images available to me but not
a clue so eventually I decided to tuck the end into the chassis frame until information surfaces.

With the pipe made it was necessary to cut a hole into the shroud, Boolean method again after making a shape, again,
I cannot see exactly where in the fan shroud it is from so can only do what I see:

(https://i.postimg.cc/7YS7fgGj/Coles-crane-552.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfPhYQ00)

The pipe mapped, as you can see I am about out of space on the texture:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rmgZ6BcC/Coles-crane-553.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbbFKPyV)

The pipe was eventually orientated to fit along the bottom:

(https://i.postimg.cc/y89QrWN0/Coles-crane-555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWbxWbpq)

With the mapping for the pipe moved to a space for final colouring the fixing to hold the pipe is under
construction:

(https://i.postimg.cc/JhpbTWjb/Coles-crane-554.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FrJ59K5)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on July 10, 2021, 07:31:48 AM
Hi Pete,
Lovely pipework there fella..lol.

No really, that previous expanding coolant pipe is excellent (shows how Covid lock-down gets us to appreciate the small things in life...must get out more often..ha ha)

Do you know where the new pipe on the side of the radiator goes?  I wouldn't have thought it does a sharp U-bend and connects to the pipe coming off the impellor pump that's on the end of the shaft that drives the generator?

The detail on this side of the engine is really coming together, but that tex mapping!  :o, are you any good at jigsaw puzzles?

Sorry, no news on any more info.

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 10, 2021, 10:56:28 AM
Hello Shessi, hope I find you well this rainy Saturday and that all is good with you and yours. ;)

Glad you like it so far, we have grown old during this build, hopefully not much longer to go for this particular vehicle.  o_O

Details of exactly where some of the pipes go sadly eludes me, I do have photographs of the underside but what I need to see is just out of the picture
and so for the time being I will just have to leave things where they are and hope something comes along later to allow me to up-date some of the meshes. ::(

I like jigsaws, this project is my own version, finding spaces is part of the challenge and fun, did I say fun? :D

Because of the space limitations some areas have now had to be changed, it is full and I like if possible to keep meshes just using one texture so I little
re-jig of the sump parts underneath was necessary to fit the last items along the passenger side I had intended to do. :o

Here are those parts I am trying to fit on the texture, one looks like some kind of liquid level indicator and
then there is a tank up close to the cab bulkhead:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4dyhdWHS/Coles-crane-556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ft4bqjKc)

The parts behind what I think are the sump need to be done again to try and represent these round
parts that attach gearbox and engine together, what the shape is going backward along the vehicle
is difficult to see so again artistic licence will prevail, consider this more in line with a painting than
a set of engineering drawings, that will help you cope with some of my choices in that I can only
use previous experience and guesswork, anything else I make up as I go along :

You can see here I am trying to capture the flat where the bolts go with the curvature of the connection:

(https://i.postimg.cc/2yPHTbfC/Coles-crane-557.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRNCwpmH)

The shape will improve because I will eventually join certain bits of geometry together at their vertices
to make the whole but first I need to get a rough shape:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KcgC3xbm/Coles-crane-558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rPVLgr4)

I am trying to imagine the shapes as they connect and go back or forward to the engine block:

(https://i.postimg.cc/TYJ7nP4v/Coles-crane-559.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV3FrqNx)

This is what has now replaced the previous long box shape and because of the shape and size has
necessitated a new texture for this and further add on parts still to do:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjdy0VdX/Coles-crane-560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2TYTznk)

Here we see the new tank and the rod near it have been painted up using the space created on the existing texture
with a start being made for the gearbox, steering parts and what attaches the tank to the side of the engine
on the new texture:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yN4DBV7W/Coles-crane-561.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CR7hspBV)

Here are the new parts in position in game, the gap might get a few small pipes and a plaque later but for
now I will concentrate on the bolts for the gearbox join and some new stuff for the steering column:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0Nyy9rLk/Coles-crane-562.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pm3HZVW4)

So, there we are, I will paint the new parts on the new texture tomorrow before the footie, sadly I have
a medical appointment on Monday so I will have to avoid the party crowds and watch the final on my own
with tea and bikkies as I have the whole tournament so far. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 16, 2021, 02:57:02 PM
Hello again guys, a little of what I managed to do this week. ;)

Just as I thought I was done on the passenger side of the engine I found a little more
I thought I should add:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3xNNV9JS/Coles-crane-563.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zymqRChK)

I am not entirely sure but I think this is the pipe that you see coming off the pump and disappearing
down and behind everything else so that is how I tried to make it.  Not sure if it was one complete
length of pipe or not but that is how I portrayed it and made a fixture to hold it in place part way down
and also added the two information plates while I was at it:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MKb3NbrQ/Coles-crane-564.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xc8PbHQf)

That finishes this side of the engine finally apart from a few wires on the bulkhead and the angle pieces that
hold the engine cover. :o

Here the new parts added to the game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/26QnyTWd/Coles-crane-565.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gX0xBVNr)

So, what is left on the other side?

Well, it seems there is a little bit more than I thought. :D

Taking a look at the steering wheel I decided it was due a little more detailing:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pLMxYZ55/Coles-crane-566.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfsHKVrK)

Making a start on the assembly on the side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KvDkTRRb/Coles-crane-567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7fbZ8P3t)

I decided I would try and model this in a way that illustrates how it comes apart instead of just using
a solid part and paint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rp0wfmFK/Coles-crane-568.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7FF1JCY)

Things coming together after a little chopping and welding with spares just in case I messed up:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4gPDJ16/Coles-crane-569.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWx1m2NL)

Here I am developing the other items you see in the photograph, once mapped and painted some of those
parts will be orientated where necessary to fit the box at the bottom of the steering column to replicate
the end pieces:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mkCwCMnR/Coles-crane-570.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSWmh3Zg)

Castellated nut, how the hell do I make one of those I asked myself, in little pieces was the result, I started
with one of the Blue shapes developing it from a box and eventually joined all six parts together leaving the
slit before using a Boolean method to cut a round hole, these were each mapped individually and a nut shape
made to bring up the rear that also had a hole cut in:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zGFqpchH/Coles-crane-571.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9Dz3Q1Jc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QdmrcWLp/Coles-crane-572.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8773Scz5)

I used all the swear words I knew making that, what a pain, guess I am a glutton for punishment but I got
it looking near enough I think, you decide:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrG3NBG2/Coles-crane-573.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BPt5K8yP)

Maybe I should get out more. o_O

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on July 18, 2021, 06:32:56 AM
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the update and effort, and...there's always more to do....

The pipework looks like a engine oil sump level dipstick holder, and as that other pipe comes from the pump to the dipstick holder, I would imagine is an oil drain pipe to return a small amount of oil back to the sump system.  Great steering box extra detail, along with a very nice castelled nut! (bet nobody's said that to you in a while?!  ;))

....and yes you really should get out more...lol

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 18, 2021, 12:53:49 PM
Hello Shessi, thank you very much for the information, really appreciated. 8)

Thankfully I have you and others to try and fill my knowledge void on trucks, my days were mainly the manufacturing side of things, making parts for projects
although I did have a chance briefly to work on a company train refit in kent a long time ago now so while I have some fitting experience that revolved around
rail industry stuff such as traction motors, gear cases and the control equipment used then, my time in trucks was primarily in material handling
so while I got to know most truck parts I did not actually fit things so my knowledge is minimal as to what did what. ;)

As you know we have not yet quite joined all the dots but as I do each section I sometimes see things in the photographs that I was unaware of
when doing other parts of the build, like the oil pipe, I could see roughly where it went but only now do I get idea of where it actually ends. ;)

That pipe from the shroud is still elusive, these are all I have for the underneath and as you can see it does not tell me anything, the only pipe is
that coming down from the pump:

(https://i.postimg.cc/9fqcght1/Thornycroft-Amazon-RAF-Recovery-Crane-UAS-2017-35-Graeme-Molineux.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9RNy3Sn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VkJw58T1/Thornycroft-Amazon-RAF-Recovery-Crane-UAS-2017-36-Graeme-Molineux-front-sus.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZfWFKpF)

As for nuts, best if we don't go there. :D

Today was so hot and sunny I did nothing much, after a walk in the park I was fit for nothing, needed a shower and a very long power nap. :P

This week will be painting mainly of what you already saw, some parts I need to colour and then clone to
make up the complete units, I have made a start:

(https://i.postimg.cc/G90FYrQN/Coles-crane-574.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQrQWkNb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nzgRdy2K/Coles-crane-575.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bd7yXP3)

Not much left to build once these are painted up, just the angle pieces for the engine covers and there is
a rack I want to do for the roof of the desert version and that should complete the build of this truck/crane
combination and I will upload it then, the damage model and the lods will come later.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 22, 2021, 12:54:26 PM
Hello again guys, just another little update. ;)

Here you can see the detail at the bottom of the steering column starting to come together, parts were
made for the front of the block and mapped before they were cloned and reversed for the rear, bolts were
as usual borrowed from previous areas:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQTPhvrL/Coles-crane-576.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDSsNwLD)

The castle nut with a newly made split pin:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCF3WW2c/Coles-crane-577.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcXMMvjg)

Mapping of the casting that holds the bearing race:

(https://i.postimg.cc/KYW5W6F4/Coles-crane-578.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSjMrHJc)

The finished parts all painted up:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8kRhdJF7/Coles-crane-579.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14znszrS)

There are quite a few rods and such that I think are from the drivers pedals in the lower area just back from the detail
just finished but I will not be doing them because I had decided to keep the detail just up to the point where the cab
bulkhead is and had deliberately not cut out the lower part of it to avoid trying to guess how it all came together under
the cab.

So, what is left then?

I now turned my attention to some of the remaining detail that is actually fixed to the cab bulkhead and made a start today.

Here we see the start of those items, first of all trying to replicate the shape of the box in the image using shapes formed
with the line tool:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xj6LFrRQ/Coles-crane-580.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1ZBvNqH)

The line tool has been essential throughout the build for forming awkward shapes, you have seen it done
before for other shapes but here again just as a reminder of the modifiers used:

(https://i.postimg.cc/JnDtTg4r/Coles-crane-581.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZbXJBxw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9WqNWbj/Coles-crane-582.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Kkm2xRXy)

As you can see from the photograph of the actual vehicle there are also some cables that run across
the top of the bulkhead as well as the various angle iron pieces used to hold the bonnet, once they
are done I think it will be time to finally bring to a close the detailing of this truck. :o

There are other things to make such as the roof rack for the desert and a few slings but essentially
the Thorneycroft itself will to all intents and purposes be done at last as far as the actual build. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 22, 2021, 01:00:10 PM
Nice detailed work on that castle nut. ]thumbsup[ I need to find a nice 3d modeling project.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 22, 2021, 02:56:16 PM
Nice detailed work on that castle nut. ]thumbsup[ I need to find a nice 3d modeling project.

Glad you like it rogeroger, my piece de resistance possibly. 8)

Everyone should find a special 3d project to do, just for themselves, something special to stimulate the mind, go for it.  ;)

I find the project very soothing to do, with damaged nerves and tendons I can only spend short times at this but that
is the beauty of it as I can just plod along at my own pace if I can, when I can, it fulfills that creative urge.  I have
always felt the need to build things, Lego, Mechano, plastic models, engineering projects and now 3d. :o

At least I don't have to dust game objects like the scale models I have dotted on shelves around home and you can
do stuff with them for missions in game, keeps me out of mischief, map making is good also, especially when you can
actually make the objects, you can lose yourself in the project, keeps the world at bay and gives you some me time.

The big problem is deciding what you want to make, and how involved it will be, I think I got carried away with this. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 23, 2021, 04:36:21 AM
In creating a 3d building object placement mod I'm discovering a lack of variety in the buildings available. In a large area like Portsmouth there are only a certain number of times you can use the same building before it becomes obvious. More western 1940s office blocks and factories are needed. In matching areas to the old photographs there is only so much that you can do.

3d building projects aren't as challenging as exotic aircraft and nobody is going to say "what a cool office block, can't wait to fly over it", probably the reason why this has been neglected. :)
The more variety in buildings the more immersive the map.

As an old musician I've had my share of nerve and tendon injuries due to over practicing. I found that yoga and stretching exercises every morning helps. If you are sitting at the computer for long periods, occasionally shake the tension out of your hands and arms. I don't know how serious your injuries are so it's probably best to consult your doctor before doing these.

During covid I found it important to leave the computer periodically and run up and down my 10 meter passage to get the circulation flowing. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 23, 2021, 05:36:53 AM
Hello rogeroger, thankfully you have the objects available from Cannon that he made for his map but other than that most of what we have is primarily of building types from the east, unfortunately we have a very diverse range of buildings here so a bit of D.I.Y will be essential. ;)
Making housing estates is not much of a problem as throughout the U.K. many share very similar building designs as they were erected by councils as workers housing mainly, however, for major public structures in towns and cities that are in many instances quite unique then having the ability to build is imperative as things that were essentially targets are usually big and very noticeable structures that German aircrew would look for as visual clues to find there way if possible, anyway, you are doing a marvelous job so far with what is available so I guess the landscape and layout of the areas you are working on is probably more important than the exact style of buildings.

Most of what I had to use on the Vietnam map were European in design, not entirely out of place because many civic structures would be created as per the home country, Asia though is really in need of some unique structures but there are so many types necessary to populate the maps we have that any one of us could not hope to actually build enough, I have made three specific to a particular map myself but unfortunately there are not enough of us or hours in the day to do full justice to what would be actually needed to furnish our available maps. :(

As far as the health issues go I have a set of very light physiotherapy stuff I try and do three to four times a day, about eight various types of exercise for various things in a session.  I have cervical spine issues as well as nerve entrapment and a long arm bicep problem, I find it difficult to do repetative movements with the arms as it causes quite harsh pains up the arms, along the neck and into the head, typing is especially difficult because the pain steadily moves up both arms at the same time, the pain killers only do so much and they tell me surgery could actually make things worse, they operated once on the ulner nerve but that left other issues unresolved and even the ulner nerve is still problematical.  Returning to work after that operation only made the other issues worse so all in all I am stuck with it and so doing things a little at a time is the only way to keep the pain manageable. ::(

Anyway, it is what it is.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on July 23, 2021, 08:07:42 AM
I didn't know you were a mapmaker.  ]thumbsup[

I have just checked out your South Vietnam map and have downloaded it. I just need to source the extra objects. :)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 23, 2021, 10:13:20 AM
I didn't know you were a mapmaker.  ]thumbsup[

Hardly a map maker per se, more a tinkerer, I found it too time consuming because like most projects you think it necessary to try and add everything and fix up what was needed, I still might one day return to the 67 map and try to do justice to the airfield and city of Saigon at that time and maybe lengthen all the main runways for some of the big aircraft available to us now that I can make objects.

The only map I made complete was 'Manom' from the 'KevinP' tutorial, Kirby put out the basic outline Vietnam map and I developed it from there. ;)

Also, I put in the roads and rail on the 'ag_cztx_PS_Viet_Minh' and added some airfields that were relevant to the Japanese invasion that were used by French forces.

The 'ag_PS_DP_Baleares', was fixed up to make the harbours on the smaller islands useable by aircraft and boats, the buildings were also added around the altered shore line.

A version of my Vietnam map was developed by another member to replicate the U.S. involvement in the Sixties, certain parts of it I altered to allow better access to some of the airfields that A.I. found difficult.

Other than that I have a version of Ferte Alais adapted for offline and one of the 32nd map with a modern Duxford using the mission from Ferte Alais for their online play added to the map, they were never put out.

You will find some religious buildings here somewhere I made for Uzin (Ivan) for the Zakavkazye maps, those are the only objects I did specifically for a map, it is something I would like to return to eventually but I have a long way still to go on this project and as I said earlier it is deciding what to make that is the problem with so much needed.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on July 31, 2021, 02:30:36 AM
Hello again guys I have built up a few images since the last update so I will post a few now instead of
a great pile later. ;)

The electrical box continues to develop as more parts of it are constructed:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wvnyk20q/Coles-crane-583.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N97js13S)

I had to alter this area as I had not noticed the bottom shape when first putting it together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bw6vTLw7/Coles-crane-584.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/752DP379)

The final shape is eventually arrived at and mapping can begin:

(https://i.postimg.cc/K8YGRLDJ/Coles-crane-585.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Vd3QhJTC)

With paint, the black areas are back and front to replicate the inside of the box if I separate the parts:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JRVGZz4/Coles-crane-586.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjBgFcSk)

With nuts and bolts, screws, and wing nuts borrowed from other areas of the build it is done apart from
the wiring:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T2mq45m7/Coles-crane-587.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HjYyJx6X)

Time to take a look at the frame that is part of the engine bay, the first bits:

(https://i.postimg.cc/cLJ30vgN/Coles-crane-588.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svtxJD4n)

The passenger side made and painted and work on placing various borrowed nuts and bolts in position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gktJyNJf/Coles-crane-589.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPZTTb14)

A closer look at the photograph while making the frame showed there was also the same beam I had
made on the other side to hold the gearbox, obviously it was one long beam but I had not looked
closely enough at the reference images I had. :-[

Anyway, here we see a clone of the other side put in position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T3vssXpm/Coles-crane-590.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKggd3GF)

This also necessitated a few alterations to existing parts so that all looked correct, or at least near enough:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zBkWqKj8/Coles-crane-591.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Fd71Zf8B)

The parts of the bay frame already done for one side were eventually cloned and with a few alterations to
one of the brackets fitted to the drivers side:

(https://i.postimg.cc/yY2J4LH0/Coles-crane-592.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzXB2Xg7)

Next up will be the wiring and what I believe is the horn, until next time stay safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 04, 2021, 12:16:59 PM
Hello again guys, last time I had a lot of images so broke it down which is why this comes so quickly. ;)

You have already seen the wires from the box, here is the larger loom connecting it all together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLw01VTh/Coles-crane-593.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmCwPB7Q)

The images I have do not give a clear idea of how each side is connected in through the bulkhead hole
so I just made a simple rounded piece, at the same time the metal clips that hold the flexible conduit
to the bulkhead were done:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx8P8jVR/Coles-crane-594.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxz4bzCb)

All done and joined to the cable from the alternator/generator and mapped ready for paint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3RpjfD40/Coles-crane-595.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ftz0JyvM)

I assumed this was the horn, if any of you know different then please let me know:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3Njxq3FZ/Coles-crane-596.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9zxjb5s)

All together as best I can see and make:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zRmbvvF/Coles-crane-597.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sM2Wjvwy)

When I made the steering wheel most of the detail concentrated in the cab, however, with the fresh detailing
already seen of the block in the engine bay there was also a need to add a further few details up top:

(https://i.postimg.cc/05p8C2Q6/Coles-crane-598.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PN5sXH1h)

A second shaft was added to go over the original as I wanted the colour the same as the bay and this was easier
than repainting on the already finished template used earlier, again how it fixes to the bulkhead is not entirely clear
so as usual I muddled along, also added was the wiring from the horn:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RCGYmjps/Coles-crane-599.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7ZktmjW)

All the previous stuff painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JsFQ1hf/Coles-crane-600.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bCwppb7)

There are rods along the bulkhead that I think are the connections for the foot pedals, I know I said I
was not going there, you know how weak I am though:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4BdhW9x/Coles-crane-601.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7CNHRVrN)

Much of the detail is hidden so I just attempted what I could see, here it is finished and painted:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zDjfrG1s/Coles-crane-602.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1Yvbmzp)

And finally, something I meant to do earlier, these I think are some kind of vibration dampers for the

(https://i.postimg.cc/vmcPQBj3/Coles-crane-603.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKG7hsdn)

Quite a involved part to make but it came together slowly but surely:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvtQC24c/Coles-crane-604.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqmYhhHN)

I had some trouble here as the shroud had to be squashed in a little and the chassis is not quite right
at the front but rather than go to the trouble of major re-building of some parts I had to accept that
one of the two items made would have to be slightly out of position:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zBsbLJjC/Coles-crane-605.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBLK2zXn)

Then the moment of truth, all the recent parts were extracted and put in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zBZ8K3sG/Coles-crane-606.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nskytVVy)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yqn78d5V/Coles-crane-607.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Czq9xsLH)

Essentially the Thorneycroft Amazon and its Coles crane are now complete, looking around the engine bay I
could see there are still things outstanding that I could add, however, enough is enough, the vehicle is done. :o

I will pack up what is done so far and put up a new link, there are things that still want improving and of course the
damage model and lods still to be undertaken as well as the lifting straps/chains along with the roof rack but it was
time to finally bring the actual vehicle build to a close, it has been a long time in coming. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 04, 2021, 12:36:08 PM
Well done Pete!  8)

Whats next?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on August 04, 2021, 01:37:41 PM
Amazing amount of work you´ve laid down for us to enjoy! THX a lot!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: vonofterdingen on August 04, 2021, 04:58:25 PM
This is your Citizen Kane Pete. How do you top this one?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 05, 2021, 04:50:42 AM
Hello guys, thank you very much for the support and kind words, really appreciated. 8)

Well done Pete!  8)

Whats next?

Glad you like it so far rogerroger, as for what's next, the Queen Mary trailer and its tractor unit is still to come as well as the Thorneycroft articulated vehicle that you have already seen started earlier in one of my posts in this thread, when though who knows. :D

This particular vehicle also needs the lods and damage model, again when I do not know.

Amazing amount of work you´ve laid down for us to enjoy! THX a lot!

Happy to know you like what I have made so far Flying H, I will be posting a update soon. ;)

This is your Citizen Kane Pete. How do you top this one?

Good question vonofterdingen, I think we can consider the Thorneycroft unique in two ways, first
of all many of the photographs we see of historical and preserved vehicles actually show the side panels
removed to expose the engine, whether this is for technical reasons or not is not known so it almost
begs to be modelled.

Secondly and more importantly are those amazing photographs posted by the team of the Belfast
restoration, without them this model could not have had the detail it does so credit to them for
providing excellent information for us even if it was mainly intended for plastic modellers.

All in all I doubt I will be able to top this, the Lysander was also detailed but that was a player usable
asset this is a object and the remaining vehicles for the set I do not have such great information for so
they will not get the same treatment unfortunately and I have got the bug out of my system as far as
trying new shapes goes in gmax so it served a specific purpose I suppose in that I now have experience
of making all sorts of strange objects for its engine.

Will I ever utilise those objects again, only time will tell.

The intention was to upload last night, however, dope that I am I noticed I missed extracting three of the meshes
and have had to add them today. :-[

Electrical box, horn and wiring loom:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jSVTkwDz/Coles-crane-608.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdF2JNB6)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 05, 2021, 05:28:39 AM
Hello guys, there is now a updated link in the first post for those of you following the build. ;)

Updated WIP 5th August 2021.

This update concludes the build of the Thorneycroft Amazon Coles crane vehicle, and includes the engine detailing shown in recent threads.

There are things that could still be added to the engine bay but enough is enough, time to finish the actual vehicle itself as it has gone on for much too long.

Even though the vehicle is complete there will no doubt be areas that need improving, and if it is to be considered fully finished the things still to do are:

All the meshes require lods.

A full damage model and textures is still to be made.

Not essential but I would like to add Items for the crane jib such as chains, ropes and slings as well as a roof rack for the desert vehicle.

There have been extensive changes to the folders to include the new build parts, please completely replace your existing folder.

Entries for the Chief, stationary and and static.ini remain the same but each hier and live file has been altered to accommodate
the new build meshes.

Thank you very much to all for the help and encouragement to get the project to this stage, really appreciated. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 06, 2021, 01:18:26 PM
Hello again guys, with the vehicle actually complete as such I have started to look at those other areas
on my to do list. ;)

Wheels, one of you said we required something less clunky, so here we are, trying to replicate the
earlier version with a higher polygon count:

(https://i.postimg.cc/fT85XHhP/Coles-crane-609.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNncxLh1)

One for the front and one for the back:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zfCgwBgf/Coles-crane-610.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkd8n9gr)

Trying to map to the original texture is proving tiresome:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZqsCxdq4/Coles-crane-611.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z93bT03M)

The build I uploaded yesterday has the set of six wheels as a single mesh but due to the higher poly
count for these improved items that will not be possible, maybe three two wheel sets and it might be
a case of uploading the new stuff as a fix with you guys adding some new entries in the hier and live
files yourselves, not sure yet.

The work bench it seems is never empty, always something to do. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 08, 2021, 03:54:00 AM
Hello guys, thoughts please on the wheel change. ;)

The front wheels are done, new higher polygon, the rear still as you have now:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zBG3bss6/Coles-crane-612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GB6b65hx)

And the question, do I leave the rear as they are because those have a very deep tread and so look
clunky anyway or update those as well seeing as one is made but not mapped yet?

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: erafitti on August 08, 2021, 04:42:23 AM
I have a question, will the engine start? ;)

Un saludo.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 08, 2021, 04:57:48 AM
I think there is a quality mismatch between the engine and tyres. The tyre textures probably need to be sharper, of a higher resolution and the tyres may need to be more detailed to match the engine detail. In blender the tyres look fine, but they need more definition in the game engine. Looking great otherwise. ]thumbsup[

Keep up the good work.
Keep well Pete!

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: bomberkiller on August 08, 2021, 05:02:01 AM
Quote
I have a question, will the engine start?

:))

Hello Pete,

That looks damn good! I want to see more of that please.

Thank you for all of your efforts to make our beloved IL-2 look better!

Best regards,

Gerhard                            (https://i.ibb.co/khTPgtX/Haegar-Hauwegden-Humpen.png)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 08, 2021, 07:44:27 AM
I have a question, will the engine start? ;)

Un saludo.

Sadly erafitti I lost the keys so I cannot see if it works or not.  :D

I think there is a quality mismatch between the engine and tyres. The tyre textures probably need to be sharper, of a higher resolution and the tyres may need to be more detailed to match the engine detail. In blender the tyres look fine, but they need more definition in the game engine.

Unfortunately I am not the best texture maker rogerroger the whole vehicle suffers from that lack of good artwork so other than using skins made by someone else I am screwed.  Not sure how to upgrade the tyres/wheels other than adding the nuts and bolts, I think adding a tread in some way is beyond me and how to do it, cutting a tread into the mesh I think would would be difficult for me at least and I am limited with what gmax can do, or more importantly my ability with it.

All I can really do is try and take that clunky look away that was a complaint and hope one of our artists might have a go with the paint.

Another issue is I have mapped everything to certain textures so improving the overall look would most likely involve mapping each mesh to its own texture, in this instance at least the tyres/wheels have their own texture but I lack the ability with photoshop to really enhance things overall. ::(

Maybe you have some ideas of what exactly you might do and how best to go about it to improve things, any thoughts please?

Thank you very much for comments rogeroger, really appreciated. 8)

Hello Pete,

That looks damn good! I want to see more of that please.

Thank you for all of your efforts to make our beloved IL-2 look better!

Best regards,

Gerhard

Glad you like it so far Gerhard, thank you very much for the kind words, really appreciated. 8)

As for more, I am not sure where to go next, make the lods or leave this vehicle as is once the wheels are sorted and move on to building the other items in the set the Queen Mary and its tractor unit and there is also the Thorneycroft articulated that will also need a trailer I already made a start with, decisions, decisions.

Thoughts guys, does having no Lods and too high poly shadow bother you or are your games okay with the model as is?

In doing the tyres I have found a few instances of things not quite matching up so the morning was spent trying to sort out those issues, sadly a problem with projects built over a long period is many parts are hidden so if you tinker with some things you already made it is only later they are apparent, anyway I think I got the worst offenders out of the way mainly the front axle and those steering actuators. :o

This is turning into my life's work. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 08, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
I found this site and put together this textue. I'ts difficult to tell what it would look like mapped and in the sim without the model. Brightness would probably have to be adjusted. Convert it to Tga. You may be able to use it ..or not. :-|
Interesting site: https://www.o5m6.de/western/AircraftRecovery.php#thornycroft (https://www.o5m6.de/western/AircraftRecovery.php#thornycroft)

I'm no expert at texturing but I am happy to assist where I can.

(https://i.postimg.cc/pV4wYBhB/wheels.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 08, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
Hello rogeroger, thank you very much for the image, really appreciated. 8)

I have tried before to use other textures from the game, however, the Thorneycroft seems to have quite a unique pattern that I tried
to replicate and that is what is in use at the moment. ;)

As for detailing, I am not really sure what can be done to the tyre except a good texture, however, your comments reminded me of
something I intended to do earlier but as usual it got lost in the wild spaces of my brain until jolted back today. :o

You will see in the folder there is a mesh 'DiscsAndHubs', the intention was to add the bolts and make the tyres separate so that
if necessary I could portray the chassis without wheels, anyway, it never got finished but it is back on the to do list:

(https://i.postimg.cc/k5R6Hc5n/Coles-crane-613.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9xLhK87)

I had painted the relative positions on the wheel textures but as alwys I had a brain fart and wandered off away with the fairies to take
on another part of the build and so here we are, if anything needs some improvement now I guess is the time to catch up and this does
add a little depth shall we say to that area. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 08, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Some images depicting a different tread. Desert conditions maybe required this change.

(https://i.postimg.cc/8cqk2Jpf/wd-raf-sru-08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0K0qmNJ9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8k3CJ3Rk/wd-raf-sru-Thornycroft-Amazon-WF-AC6-2-Coles-Mk-VII-Series-2-Crane-Front-small.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/65vpd0cr/wd-raf-sru-Thornycroft-Amazon-WF-AC6-2-Coles-Mk-VII-Series-2-Crane-Left-small.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 08, 2021, 12:59:10 PM
Hello again rogerroger, I have seen the site you gave the link for, sorry I forgot to mention it last post, there
is some good stuff there, plenty of ideas for possible projects. ;)

I made a few copies of your image and reduced it to fit the sizes on my template for the front:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vm5ZR8pK/Coles-crane-614.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1CjWbRd)

This was a quick and dirty test as they say using my dirt layers over the top and it still needs the tread
down the middle aligning properly, to do that I need to jiggle the mapping and extract the wheels again
but it gives you some idea of whether or not you prefer it like this especially once I add the nuts and bolts.

It looks good, if I left it the actual size you posted and enlarged the mapping to fit that then maybe even
better, not sure, I will need to experiment.

To be honest I was trying to avoid using textures where there might be copyright issues or I do not know the author
but my artistic abilities are not quite up to scratch yet, probably never will be. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 08, 2021, 02:11:51 PM
That is definitely an improvement. ;D

I can rework the hub to make it look more like reply #315

A darker rework of the image that I did earlier:

(https://i.postimg.cc/prd21XYZ/wheels.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 08, 2021, 02:38:18 PM
Thank you very much for the new image, really appreciated.  8)

I will need to colourise these somehow to match the desert and winter vehicles, there is a process in photoshop I used
to change the colour of the uniforms for the driver and his mate so hopefully all should come together. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 08, 2021, 07:34:29 PM
These were the original rim desert colours. I recoloured the previous images to match your gmax images. You will probably have to adjust the brightness/contrast if you use them.

(https://i.postimg.cc/PqTSNd7g/wheels2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

edit: I will remove the banding issues on the rim edges with airbrush and re-post this later.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: SAS~Ghost129er on August 08, 2021, 10:04:18 PM
Hiya Pete,

Nice work! Just wondering, you could go full ham on Poly count and etc - so long as you add LOD's where applicable. I was planning on doing some HD mods/objects (still have the project files) where I have insane attention to detail that at about 70 LOD is no longer visible and a single triangle/poly to make sure FPS/etc doesn't get butchered and that only when close enough for things like screenshots or near enough to see from the cockpit, really does show up.

Just my input for things like the engine and etc, not sure if you've already implemented that in the .msh files.

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 09, 2021, 12:53:06 AM
I THINK THIS ONE IS BETTER.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtfW7YGb/wheels2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 09, 2021, 02:16:55 AM
Thanks yet again for the desert texture rogerroger, really appreciated. 8)

I might have a look at doing the mapping again later, the curvature of the tyres causes some issues and even though I divided the middle of the tyre into four segments aligning is difficult, I spent a hour last night trying to take out those curves manually straightening everything up and while getting close it is still not quite there because of the increased detail of the textures you can see where things do not quite match. ;)

Hello SAS~Ghost129er, I managed to keep all the meshes for the engine just under the poly limit so the moving vehicle in the cars folder is good to go as is as far as I can tell but I would at some time like to add the Lods just for completeness.  Although the vehicle in the cars folder has so many meshes I have not yet had any mention that it was causing any issues without Lods.

The only issue so far with this build is the objects in the buildings folders require the class files from Andrew to enable them to work using a hier structure in a live file, that allowed me to put together some possible scenes for inclusion in missions which otherwise would have meant me making each complete vehicle as one mesh, that would have required some serious reduction as you can imagine. :o

Anyway, so far so good, it is coming together but slowly. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 10, 2021, 02:27:56 PM
Hello again guys, just a bit on the wheels. ;)

I have managed to create some textures from what rogerroger posted, however, my photographs
show ten wheel nuts and that is what my stuff was built on so some tinkering to adjust those out
was necessary on the textures, but combined with my new bolts I hope this is more to everyone's
Liking:

(https://i.postimg.cc/pTw4PjBB/Coles-crane-615.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Ymn36TH)

The tread in the centre was a little difficult and I had to drag and push and generally fuck about with
the vertices to bring things close enough so any other texture will most likely need to be adjusted
accordingly and the colour is slightly out possibly from the dirt layers I added or maybe some blurring
of the previously sharp high resolution textures:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L66BnX0k/Coles-crane-616.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqynYMmq)

The front wheels are a set as are the nuts and bolts for them, due to the new wheels being higher polygon
it looks like I will need to make it three separate wheel sets, for the testing I just cut off the front wheels
from the mesh you already have so what you see is a bit of the new and the old for comparrison.

I hope I did not spoil the textures too much and the combination of texture and 3d parts now helps to bring
about a better looking wheel set, the rear wheel is already made and I can clone and adjust the nuts and bolts
so once I manage to texture that back wheel we should be about there.  :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Flying H on August 10, 2021, 04:35:53 PM
That weel and tire looks great (as the rest of your build)! You should rememer the tires of such a vehicle often passes rough ground and takes a lot of beating so they don´t have to be factory fresh!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: bomberkiller on August 10, 2021, 04:39:18 PM
Oh god, does that look good!  8)

Best regards, Gerhard  :)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 10, 2021, 08:43:00 PM
Yesirree Bob! that looks great! well mapped! ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 11, 2021, 02:33:05 AM
Hello guys, glad you approve of the upgrade. 8)

Hopefully I can take a look at the back wheel today sometime, with one mapped I can then clone it for the others, not
sure why I had so much trouble with the tread on the front maybe just too many curves or I might have moved something
out of line, anyway, having done that one I am at least prepared for the rear. :D

Once done I will make another upload, there were a few issues I found after the last update and now the wheels becoming
a little more involved than I thought it will be easier all around if I just upload the pack again. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on August 13, 2021, 06:46:01 AM
Hi Pete,
Double what Gehard said, with nuts on and a flake!

That engine is a beautiful work of CAD art. Just one minor complaint though, why are there no relays or fuses inside the fuse box?!...slipping or what..ha ha ;)

As for the wheels, IMHO they make a great external difference. I know a higher poly count, but totally worth it and nice one RRoger with the tex.

That top quarter pic looks very realistic.

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 13, 2021, 08:46:09 AM
Hello Shessi, glad you like and approve of the changes since last we had you post. 8)

Just one minor complaint though, why are there no relays or fuses inside the fuse box?!...slipping or what..ha ha ;)

I know, if my old Electrical Installation tutor Eric has seen this I bet he can be heard tut tutting in the background and
wondering why he ever bothered with me. :D

Anyway, you should be used to my idleness by now, you know how rough my work is up close. :P

But I digress, how are things going I guess you are wondering.

Well, here we have the nuts and bolts for the rear wheels, and a completed Wheel:

(https://i.postimg.cc/25trcTfF/Coles-crane-617.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v15JDrTc)

And here are the clones of the first all nicely covered with the same texture as the front from Rogeroger:

(https://i.postimg.cc/wT15njJX/Coles-crane-618.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crN8nZFC)

With the nuts and bolts painted, sorry no washers, idleness again:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VNKF0GCw/Coles-crane-619.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtsNSk24)

I put together three parts, fan shroud, hubs and the steering mechanism to make one mesh, something
I really need to do for some others, however, from memory many of the parts I made were left stand alone
to enable me to make the various scenes in the building folders so I will probably leave the remainder as is,
the nuts and bolts are separate but it gives me a idea, maybe a rusty old chassis in the future:

(https://i.postimg.cc/d1BcCK91/Coles-crane-620.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBCQk22t)

And into game for a look:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L5XwZgXC/Coles-crane-621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47DBDdpV)

I do hope those wheels are smooth and sexy enough for you guys. ;)

The texture is as good as I could get, the rear wheels are a little bigger than the front and I had the same
issue with the curvature but I think they look okay, that texture from Rogeroger does make a whole lot of
difference to the final result. 8)

Problems, there always are, I put things in game just to check all was there and the damage model was not
working as it should, I know it is not a full damaged vehicle but I had the open doors cab version set to show
when damaged to look like the crew had made a hasty exit, but no show.  Anyway, I had forgot the CoCommon
in the last upload and once added again I then saw the fire effect but not the intended cab it used the closed
door one from the moving vehicle folder. o_O

I'm puzzled, tried altering some entries but no change, I need to sleep for a few hours and come back to it later,
my head hurts, as does most of the rest of me, I cannot figure it out. ::(

Hopefully some time tonight or early tomorrow I will put up a new link even if I cannot sort the problem. :)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 13, 2021, 11:46:20 AM
Beautiful models and excellent mapping mate, take a well deserved rest. :)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: vonofterdingen on August 13, 2021, 12:11:03 PM
Yes, a rest and a good stiff drink!
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 14, 2021, 03:58:06 AM
Hello guys, well I had the rest but sadly not the stiff drink, the medication means I very rarely touch alcohol these days. ;)

Hob Knobs and cups of tea are my favored tipple.  :D

Eventually I found out why the damage model was not showing but it took most of the evening
in between catching up on the football. :o

I tested all my entries for technics file and even renamed some things but eventually decided
things were okay as is because there had been no need to change anything since the early release.

So then why will this thing not pick up from the dead folder, it was baffling, the vehicle could be seen
to be hit because the fire was there so the Co Common was working but I was not seeing the open door
cab I put there especially so I could see the dead model working without a dedicated texture, it was the
visual clue.

Eventually, late in the evening I loaded up the game and selected most of the text from the dead.him and
deleted it leaving just a few entries and off I went with a mission, voila it worked. o_O

Okay, that is a trick I use when all else fails, more often than not it is some kind of spelling error that is
preventing something happening so I remove text and then gradually put some of the entries back until
I have the issue again, usually the Stainless tool or my Sknil would have shown up something but each had
loaded the dead.him without indicating any errors.

So, I was getting close but still not exactly sure, my thoughts were that all entries were good so the only
other culprit was either too many polygons or meshes, maybe a combination of both. :(

A stripped out version of the Thorneycroft dead folder worked:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ncVpGQ0Z/Coles-crane-622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gr7CYjCB)

What does that tell us then?

Well we know there is a upper limit to how many meshes we can add to a model, not sure of that figure though, so
far I had kept all the meshes within the known 3000 Poly limit and as you see the main Lod has been good to go, at
least no one yet has indicated otherwise.  I always thought I might hit a wall some time during the build but that had
not yet happened, however, the problem I had would indicate the dead model needs to be considerably lower in meshes
and or polygons than the main Lod.

So now I am going to have to strip out the other folders, all the engine detail is gone as are the hook and wire details from
the crane boom and besides that my new damage texture also needs some work. :D

The damage model looks like it will be more complicated to put together than I thought, I was always going to lower
the detail but as you see form the above image there is not much left to play with but at least the new tyres are
still there as well as cab fixings, a bit of the body and the chassis. :P

I can reduce the chassis and cab parts to some degree but even there the engine is going to be very sparse but I
might be able to get a low poly hook and its wires back, I will need to experiment. :D

This now needs some thought so I will do a quick and dirty strip out of the other two folders for now and post a new link,
that way you can at least take a look yourself at the new tyres and I will have a break and prepare myself. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 14, 2021, 05:47:09 AM
Hello again guys, new link has been added to the first post. ;)

Updated WIP 14th August 2021.

For this update new wheels were made back and front smoother and higher in their polygon count.

New texture for the wheels provided by Rogerroger at SAS.

Wheel nuts and bolts added for each wheel.

Three parts joined together to make one mesh, Fan shroud, discs and hubs and steering actuators.

CoCommons reinstated as they were missed in the last update, the dead model failed to work until a
large amount of the detail parts were removed from the dead folders, this has left a basic model
without any dedicated textures until I develop the dead model further, next on the list.

As always, Please remove the previous folders and replace with the new one.

Thank you very much for all the help, support and encouragement, really appreciated. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on August 15, 2021, 05:49:26 AM
Hi Pete,
Many thanks for the new updated model, great tex choices btw.

I appreciate you want the damage model to look it's best, but are people really that close to it or paying attention closley in-game?  How about leaving the engine bonnet on, so removing the need for any engine at all, use the old/original lower poly wheels (no wheel nuts), remove one cab door and handle, one front and one rear mudguard (opposite sides), all glass, fuel tank and the crane boom/arm, wire and hook...after all it is 'destroyed'?!  Not telling a master builder how to model, just an ]idea[

Cheers

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 15, 2021, 12:04:28 PM
Hello Shessi, glad you like the update, I hope it was worth the wait. 8)

I have been experimenting with the dead model today, not sure yet just how it will work out, as
for the new wheels I think I would like to keep those rather than revert back but I'll have to see
what I can put together. ;)

First of all I have taken some of the items from the damage model you now have and begun a drastic
parts reduction, here we see the chassis with most of the detail items gone just leaving a basic drive
shaft, this has reduced the poly count by half or so:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zf9D73XG/Coles-crane-623.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HSMN4Ch)

Here I have skewed the wheels at the front a little as well as the parts that work with them before I
eventually tried to replicate the front wheels deflated as though caught by a blast or bullets:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLZPT1Fg/Coles-crane-624.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xpbc9nGH)

Where I am able to drastically reduce the poly count on a few items I have then joined together meshes
using the same texture to make a single mesh, this way the overall count will not exceed the existing meshes
you have in that dead model now, however, the hope is to then have a overall more detailed dead model if I keep
within the poly count of the model you now have that I already know works.
All nuts and bolts are gone and only the main shapes of the parts left, what I still do not know is if the problem
I had was too many polygons or too many meshes, maybe both so I need to find some sort of balance between
the fully detailed model and the dead.

First of all I need to look at what I would like it to include and then see what is possible by experimenting. :D

So here you see the engine block reduced then some of what are now separate castings similarly reduced and
then joined so I keep the overall look of the engine and still have that continuation through to the fan without a
big gap, the whole lot still comes in at the same poly level but looks better, more complete than what you have
now:

(https://i.postimg.cc/hjfyDP9T/Coles-crane-625.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbYSpN2G)

On the other side the cab furniture has been decimated because a lot of it would have burned, that is added to
a equally reduced steering wheel, all the bolts and stuff have gone but the overall look is still there, you can also
see the other side of the engine block:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6pFLrLR2/Coles-crane-626.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XqC1zsb)

The Coles cab and its crane are also in work going through the same process, I do not really know what one
of these would look like following a air strike, or whatever destroyed it, so I am trying to do something that
hopefully looks plausible. o_O

I have the cables as though they have been severed somehow and the crane fallen forward once the tension
of those cables is gone, the hook is on the ground, I removed one half as though it is sunken into the soil. :P

It might look okay when I'm done, maybe not, I have to try these things out.  One of my other projects was the
YAG6_2 fire engine from the Aviaskins project, myself and Andrew (Greif11) to use a scale model description
super detailed the basic model, it got high res textures, all kinds of add-ons such as ladders, hoses, bell and was
completed with full Lods and damage model, if you haven't seen it there is a link in the first page of the thread
for the Aviaskins project, I think we did a rather good job on that one. ;)

This project is first and foremost a build rather than IL-2 specific so I tinker with it in various ways just to see
how it goes and add it to the game secondly.

Stay tuned Shessi, I am not entirely sure if I am in control of myself or not, the pills and the build have unhinged me I think,
anything might happen. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 16, 2021, 03:24:21 PM
Hello again guys, just a quick update on progress. ;)

The damage model is now together, a few things were done before I got to the testing stage.

Here I have tried to show the fuel tanks as though they took a major hit, cutting bits off using
a Boolean method and then cloning that to make the inner skin, that I will paint to look like bare
metal, the front open window was also made to look as though it was hanging off:

(https://i.postimg.cc/1tg70cV4/Coles-crane-627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/34TZYGBH)

I continued on reducing the poly count with each part I wanted to retain and where possible combining
them to make a single mesh, the crane boom itself had some items reduced and the cables splayed
over things to try and give the impression they had snapped when hit and most of the detail was removed
from the pulley wheels and just a plain drum left in place of what was there before.

This is the final result, I added a few things to the passenger side of the engine because it looked bare
and by now the poly count was going up so rather than continue and see just how far I could go I decided
enough was enough for a dead model:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jd95ZR15/Coles-crane-628.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJ6kKbkF)

The model was gradually built up in stages before I reached the final version above, testing as I went because
I was not sure just what I could get away with, a few badly spelled meshes or entries and such marred progress
but here is what I have ended up with:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zXWBtsYF/Coles-crane-629.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzhSd61R)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t4NgyFT1/Coles-crane-630.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts7bNZFy)

I now need to put together a few textures to replicate burnt paint and wood and general damage and
then on to the Lods for the main and dead vehicle.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 19, 2021, 03:27:53 PM
Hello again guys, here are a few more images to bring the Thorneycroft to a end, just them Lods left and any extras. ;)

So, with the dead model done next up would be the textures, here making a start:

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4Fdj8dS/Coles-crane-631.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppDZtwvB)

I decided I would need a few bullet holes so went on line to see if there were any tutorials, thankfully yes:
so I had a go:

(https://i.postimg.cc/j2pPdMZ3/Coles-crane-632.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JNfKnvS)

The first test I used images I thought too large so scaled them back, here we see the alpha holes added
for the centre of the hit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FH81LTch/Coles-crane-633.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4Pc0Jqf)

Into the game for a quick test, it won't win any artistic awards but the damage model is coming together:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T2s8GBX2/Coles-crane-634.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtjY56nS)

View from the rear:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MZfwcz5f/Coles-crane-635.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mh4JJf0T)

And the burned out cab interior:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T3RBcxV9/Coles-crane-636.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzQvFW6B)

Final testing of each version, summer:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6Q8jHpyd/Coles-crane-637.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nstGrZKz)

Another view to show all around:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Xv5KGGrD/Coles-crane-638.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qtk6W7X8)

Winter:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vT2xSb1V/Coles-crane-639.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sGS2MF4j)

Desert:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2D47294/Coles-crane-640.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgnBXT20)

Without a photograph of a vehicle that had been shot up it is difficult to try and imagine how best to do it, here
I have concentrated the main force of a blaze on the cab and engine using the ruptured fuel tanks as the cause
leading to secondary damage with bits of the engine spilling its own fluids into the mix, a few bullet holes adorn
other areas just for good measure, it works for me but then I am easily suited. :D

I used a few Photoshop filters on the front tyres to try and replicate the burned rubber, again you will have to allow
me a great deal of slack with my artistic license here. :o

So then, the main vehicle is done and dead model with it all that remains now are those dreaded Lods and a few detail
extras such as slings and a roof rack to fully finish the off the Thorneycroft and its Coles crane. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Zflyer48 on August 19, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Looking real good.
So, two weeks?  :D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: cgagan on August 20, 2021, 01:20:45 AM
That's top quality stuff Pete! 8)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 20, 2021, 04:36:45 AM
Thank you very much for the kind words guys, really appreciated, glad you like them. 8)

So, two weeks?  :D

Absolutely.  NOT. ;)  Maybe today. o_O

The dead model I think I can manage to upload later then at least the complete model is yours to tinker with as
you please, however, the Lods will I feel take just a little longer though especially at the pace I move.   :D

I did a quick test this morning with one of the dead vehicles from the car folder set up as a static object
and added the other two:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SNgf3JQp/Coles-crane-641.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVRhRDRd)

I do not want to make specific dead models for those static objects you already have, not right now at least, they
were intended just as a demonstration of what could be done by moving/deleting a few parts in the hier as eye candy
for the airfields if you wanted them, same with these dead models they are just a copy of what is in the cars folder but
with a few small alterations to make them show as a static, again your choice whether you add those, they all need
the class files posted by Andrew (Grief11) to make them show.

Anyway, I will get on with cleaning my mess from the folders and hopefully you can download from a new link later on
and tinker to your hearts content. 8)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: bomberkiller on August 20, 2021, 04:44:19 AM
...simply wonderful!

(https://i.ibb.co/WGWRgXT/Haegar-Hau-weg-den-Humpen-cheerst.png)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 20, 2021, 05:09:26 AM
Hi Pete
I love the rust texturing, looks great . the cranes could probably use some rust flecking and wear in places. The military  usually don't look after their vehicles that well, tax payers money and all that, plenty more where that came from. :)
Keep up your fantastic work.
Glen
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 20, 2021, 06:55:12 AM

Glad you like it so far Glen, thank you very much for the nice words, really appreciated. 8)

The military usually don't look after their vehicles that well, tax payers money and all that, plenty more where that came from. :)

Careful Glen, them there R.A.F. technicians will be sending the boys around. :D

There is now a new link in the first page. ;)

This latest update includes the dead model complete for the moving vehicles.

Three folders have been added to the buildings folder so the dead model for each theater
can be added as a object, however, the other static objects remain as they were without
a specific dead model, you as the player can tinker with what you have to build something
more to your taste.

Those three folders have their entries added to the static.ini so you will need to update
your entries to include them if you wish to use them:

[buildings.House$DeadThorneycroftColes] Title DeadThorneycroftColesDead MeshLive 3do/Buildings/DeadThorneycroftColes/Live.HIM MeshDead AlignToLand 0 Body RockBig Panzer 0.05 [buildings.House$DeadThorneycroftColesDesert]
AlignToLand     0
Body            RockBig
Panzer          0.05

AlignToLand     0
Body            RockBig
Panzer          0.05

The entries for the moving vehicles can remain as they are.

Still to do:

Lods for all parts.

Possible additional objects such as slings and chains for the crane and maybe a roof rack for the Thorneycroft.

Please remove your existing folder completely and add the new one in the download because with each new
version there have been extensive alterations too numerous to remember and note down.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 20, 2021, 07:51:12 AM
Quote
Careful Glen, them there R.A.F. technicians will be sending the boys around.
Sorry! That comment was based on observations on a military base in my country a few years back, though I doubt things have changed since, corruption has become a national pastime ;D.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 20, 2021, 11:47:56 AM
corruption has become a national pastime ;D.

Oh so you do live in England then and know our government well, I thought you were from elsewhere, the USA maybe. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on August 20, 2021, 12:06:54 PM
]laughing4] ]thumright[
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on August 21, 2021, 04:15:24 AM
Hi Pete,
Damage models looks superb, many thanks.

Really like the 'shattered' glass, flat tyre and rust/fire damage, very realsitic... ]cheers[

Shessi
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 21, 2021, 04:38:57 AM
Hello Shessi, glad you like my attempt at destroying the vehicle I spent nearly two years building. 8)

That will be the last update now for a while, I decided to do the Lods now before I start on anything else
that way I should at least complete it, three Lods should do I hope but it will take some time to do each
mesh especially as some are different when you get to the raised crane boom and the damaged vehicle. ;)

It will be more tedious than difficult as I will just be removing items but it all takes time, maybe not entirely
necessary with our modern machines but I will for completeness, there will also need to be some texture
changes to allow for the Lods.  :o

This work will also give me a chance to replace the shadows as from what was written recently rather than just
copy the existing mesh it is better to use something like the Lod3, something else to experiment with. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on August 28, 2021, 05:20:15 AM
Hello again guys, just another brief update. ;)

I have started the lods doing the dead model first, it has less parts and has already had the polygons reduced
somewhat, this can work against you because some of the parts are sparse and it becomes difficult to keep
any kind of detail the further you go, however, I was forced to do this to the dead model to have it show up. :(

So, here we go, the chassis first up because this is the base of the vehicle you could say, it attaches to the map
and the parts to it, here is LOD1 2 and 3, my first problem here was I had removed the axles and I wanted to use
LOD1 as the shadow for the LOD0, I did eventually clone another part and add some axles to make up for this:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DywVNq7b/Coles-crane-642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5pHr0rY)

The IL_2 Bible indicates each LOD should be half of the previous or there about and I decided on three for this vehicle,
shadows I could not find any actual figures so as Mentioned earlier I will use LOD1 to replace the current LOD0 version
and then LOD3 for LOD1,2 and 3, not sure that is exactly how to do it but that is how I will go, if anyone can provide
better information please post.

How to do the reduction?  Well, in gmax there is a tool called the Optimizer that can help but its actual use is minimal, I tried
various settings but in the end went for a me, myself and I approach and did it manually a bit at a time, it is tiresome. ::(

Here we see I am joining some of the more shapely elements of the part together to reduce things as best I can, I find it
helps with the early work if you have some higher poly shapes but here I was limited as I already mentioned but even so
found enough to play about with:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Kjz2tLzL/Coles-crane-643.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YGJZHvQq)

Here a closer look, by simplifying these edges you manage to reduce things by taking this approach to each part:

(https://i.postimg.cc/mkcnbSkd/Coles-crane-644.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6Twwy8n)

The above finally broke down into the various LODs needed:

(https://i.postimg.cc/s1dT3dtX/Coles-crane-645.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0KnYC35R)

A look in game after some of the work is done shows that the shadows and LODs do appear to be working
by zooming in and out but I do not know if there is a particular way this is meant to be tested, some of the
shadows are missing some detail but again as mentioned the IL_2 Bible is a little sparse on just how much
each LOD shadow should be other than mentioning something about LOD3:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfZcFSGx/Coles-crane-646.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdy3ZHwc)

I have seen those with 3ds Max can actually extract all their parts together with the LODs, sadly I am
not that far advanced enough with gmax tinkering to know how or if it can be done with the program I
have. :D

Everything I do is added singly and slowly step by step and I assembly the three Lods and add the
necessary text as I go using some pre-prepared files that allow me to copy and paste what I need into
each mesh before taking each individually into the main mesh, here you see the workbench:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Kvm2P6KF/Coles-crane-647.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5Zp1HBH)

Here you see my slow process in use as I take each mesh in turn and add its particular text as methodically
as I am capable of trying not to miss anything as I go:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9NPjSzF/Coles-crane-648.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6FdD48C)

A check of the finished mesh by opening it up in MshConverter, all seems okay, the bits I hoped would show
have so looking good for a test in game:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W3snWw0D/Coles-crane-649.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PLFYNZ3h)

Final task is to add the Lod distances, these come from a building model I did that used figures from a game
item, I do not know how we decide on the figures or ultimately test them as such so as long as it all shows
in game I have to consider it close enough:

(https://i.postimg.cc/C1ZCdMTN/Coles-crane-650.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBSvMSqB)

I made a set of textures using Hi, Mid and Lo as I had in a previous fire engine project and assigned them each
a Mat file, it will get quite cluttered once I move on to the main model as that has many more parts but for the
dead version at least it appears to work as hoped:

(https://i.postimg.cc/GhB0rG58/Coles-crane-651.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mT2Q7Zs)

The moving vehicle and its static fellows will essentially follow the above procedure but have far more components
and many more polygons to remove but I thought those of you who have continued to look in might find some of
this useful, the experts maybe not, I have much to learn and I am sure this whole process can be done much more
quickly with the right knowledge but for now it does appear to be working at least. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 19, 2021, 04:59:03 AM
Hello again guys, not much to report but I thought you might like to see where I am at with it. ;)

The Lods for the dead model are done and installed, I do not know of any specific way to test these
to show you they are actually working other than disable one at a time but that seems a lot of messing
really so here you can see each version does show in game, I only worry when nothing shows:

(https://i.postimg.cc/g0Q24RJV/Coles-crane-652.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bG0PwZ1r)

Before I did anything further with meshes I went through the same process as for the dead model making
the three different sized textures for each lod:

(https://i.postimg.cc/TYdfVQ08/Coles-crane-653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3Wcs7Xz9)

All the mat files were also assembled and then these were posted into all the other folders moving or static
because all would use them eventually and the existing meshes were renamed accordingly:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4dPFsv9t/Coles-crane-654.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFD77kSb)

When I moved on to the meshes I started with the wheels because I already had the rear ones done from the
damage model, it was just a case of slightly altering their position as they were slightly angled for the damage
version, the poly reduction then moved to doing new lods for the front wheels, the chassis has no lods here but
they were added later, I needed it to hang everything on:

(https://i.postimg.cc/L84kMdVy/Coles-crane-655.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPcvmR9Z)

The remaining meshes I would do in the order I found then in the folder just going down through them
doing the next in turn as they had been sorted alphabetically in there as apposed to how I had originally
added them in the hier, new entries would be added to the new heir as I added each part before the poly
reduction was started.

Now for the main reason to post today besides just boring you all with the progress on this lovely sunny Sunday. :D

I usually start the poly reduction by removing things such as what represents washers and bolt threads as anything
round tends to have the highest poly count and can be a good way to reduce the first lod quickly if it contains such
items.   This I did when doing the blanking plate, however, it seemed to reduce the poly count by a inordinate amount with
each deletion of the washers. :o

I checked that ignore backfacing was on, not that it always works as it should, and I was not deleting anything else.  Selecting
one of the washers gave me the reason, to many vertices:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bwCqmbJ6/Coles-crane-656.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21Wp61nv)

I decided to leave as is on this occasion as I was so far into the project but thought I would point out the
the issue and how it comes about.  When we make anything round we are given a choice as to just how
smooth or otherwise the diameter is and also how many height segments we use, the height segments can
be a good way of altering the shape along the length of a bar, enlarging or reducing it, however, for things
like plain washers it just adds far too many polygons than are needed and in this instance I had forgot to
reduce the amount in the height segment box and once I cloned each washer it just increased this poly count
as I added one after the other along the blanking plates:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MHV0zVXx/Coles-crane-657.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnMnNZj6)

It is very easy to forget and there are other instances such as when using the line tool that we can be caught out,
I am sure I have mentioned it before but it does no harm to remind myself and you guys that it can be a real problem
if not dealt with at the right time.  There is a simple enough way to change this if as in my case I forgot and essentially
involves taking one set of vertices and moving them close to the next before joining them together, then move along to the
next, you need to reset the welding distance, something I have shown before, eventually they can be reduced so you
just have the front and back vertices.

So, here is the model so far, it contains around seventy parts I have made and two separate driver meshes and as
I write this I have so far added lods to 30 of them so still a long way to go:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vmnZqzKQ/Coles-crane-658.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1Xb7hyf)

Most of the parts once done can then be used as is in the other folders, however, the Coles Crane folder contains
some meshes I altered especially to enable a raised position for the static models in some of the folders so that will
add a few more to the total.

Before I started the lod build I saved a folder of the original vehicle with all the parts in it for the moving Thorneycroft
and then made a new one just containing the textures, mat files and hier, once I finish a part, in this case the blanking
plate I then add the next in order into the folder to start the latest addition and delete the meshes I just finished using,
this keeps me moving onward in some kind of structured way so I do not forget anything:

(https://i.postimg.cc/nzyFvQ2X/Coles-crane-659.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9qZDCRD)

Once that is done I open up gmax and find that next mesh in the order and clone it to form the LOD1, hiding
the original then saves you reducing the the wrong mesh, and go through the process all over again for each
lod, it is very tiresome, no wonder new models take so long to make:

(https://i.postimg.cc/PJVM3TLv/Coles-crane-660.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SY88j0fm)

With each addition I make a copy of the folder and save it to my external drive along with the necessary scenes
from gmax, bitter experience has shown how easy it is to lose hours of work so it is yet another routine I try to
stick to following every session no matter how long or short.

So far I have been trying to do a couple of meshes a day if and when my health condition allows so it is moving
along but with still 40 parts just for this vehicle to do it will not be quick. :P

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on September 19, 2021, 08:02:42 AM
The lods are hard work when the main model is already finished. :) Those models look great with cranes intact.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 19, 2021, 12:30:08 PM
The lods are hard work when the main model is already finished. :) Those models look great with cranes intact.

Glad you like the overall build Glen.  8)

Much of the detail gets lost in the overall thing and there is more than needs be really but I enjoyed the work even if I had to
take so long doing it, lods are certainly more of a chore to do now though but finish I will.

Originally the intent was just to find something to build, it was not intended for IL-2 as such, it was only once I started to add
things into game that I decide I should do the lods as well for completeness sake. :o

Thing is the vehicle would only show up as a single entity if at all in game so even older machines should be able to cope with it
on its own without lods, not like there will be thirty or so in formation at one time, however, I gave up doing the other modding
stuff to more concentrate on building 3d models so I though it better to do this complete if I could.  With so many parts in the
build I had a feeling I could get bogged down if I did lods at the same time so felt it better to at least build the truck and crane
complete rather than risk giving up part way through if I got fed up with how long it was taking.  :D

I have to be honest I am surprised I managed to get the build this far, with illness and other things I have waned at times and
been on the verge of giving in and was not sure if or when I would finish it, at least the vehicle is done as such this extra stuff
is just icing on the cake so say. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: stanislao on September 20, 2021, 05:18:14 AM
;D   Good boy ! You have done a truly fantastic work! At the beginning I did not understand the reason for so much dedication and determination for an object that after all can only be appreciated by the few who love perfection and realism in airport scenarios, then I understood your motivations and believe me I am very grateful to you for this creation that is and will become an example for all those who want to take the path of modding!
Thanks again Pete.

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on September 20, 2021, 08:59:37 AM
Glad you like the work so far stanislao. 8)

I have always liked objects in missions that give life to the airfield, most of the vehicles I remember as models from the Airfix company are
available to us from various sources either made specific for IL-2 or imported, the Thorneycroft was missing and seemed to offer a very
interesting subject so I made it, took much longer than the model kits but worth the effort I think. ;)

The vehicle is actually in many WWII photographs and seemed to be more prolific than I imagined, the recovery tractor and trailer not much
so, you now have the ability to add it in where it might fill a space in a mission/campaign diorama and add that little extra realism and immersion.

Hopefully I have broken things down into enough parts to give you all the chance to customise as you see fit, the engine can be removed
to reduce the overall poly count with just the full covers used and if you want other areas of the vehicle and crane can also be altered to the
bear minimum of meshes if you desire so you win all around I think.

We forget that the pilots of our war-birds required a whole army of support vehicles and trades to allow them to do the job they did so it is
nice to represent that in IL_2, our modded game most likely features many things we will never get in a more modern iteration of the series
so at least we have it here to represent those thousands of unknown men and women who keep/kept the air arms fighting.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 10, 2021, 02:43:03 PM
Hello again guys, is it finished?  Sadly no not yet but getting there. :D

The moving vehicles for each respective climate are now done, all lods added. ;)

Summer:

(https://i.postimg.cc/v8SnScJ1/2021-10-10-14-17-26.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDKD2XX9)

Desert:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NYzcfJs/2021-10-10-14-15-54.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bsPrkcsn)

Winter:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vmQDmyRF/2021-10-10-14-13-58.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFyj6Rx0)

All the parts with lods added show up in game, no screaming from the log, I have to assume all is okay so far. 8)

Next up are the statics, most of the parts for the moving vehicles will go into those to make up the majority of
meshes as they are, however, there are some slight changes.  Things like the fan comes in moving and stopped
variety, the crane cable in travelling and released ready to lift and then some engine covers in various positions
on the ground and so on have to be tackled yet.

The Coles crane in its own folders are deliberately centered to allow them to move around on a pivot and the crane
jib in lowered and raised position along with the chains are other additional parts still to have their lods made and
added but at least the bulk of this is now nearly done. :o

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on October 10, 2021, 03:15:44 PM
Brilliant Pete, I love that winter skin. ;D
Are the crew your work as well?
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 11, 2021, 01:56:00 AM
Are the crew your work as well?

Hello Glen, glad you like it so far, the crew was borrowed from a existing mod here at S.A.S, I think they were added to
IL_2 by wingflyr not sure, I modified them slightly and retouched his textures to make a desert uniform. ;)

I really should give figure building a go, it will eventually come as the intention when I set out on this project was to
explore different things in 3d modelling including a look at Blender as well, however, right now the vehicles in this
set take priority.  :)

The winter wash is just that a smattering of White over the R.A.F colour, could not actually find anything to
show whether or not we had special winter colours for these, maybe not, however, for IL_2 purposes it got that
winter slot so to speak. :D

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on October 11, 2021, 03:46:00 AM
Hiya Pete :)

Quote
I really should give figure building a go, it will eventually come as the intention when I set out on this project was to
explore different things in 3d modelling including a look at Blender as well, however, right now the vehicles in this
set take priority.

Character modeling, rigging and  animation is fun. After I learnt how to create models and rig them for animation back in 2004, this was my first project called"Bravefart". ;D
These are two clips of character creation,rigging and experimental animations that I made back in 2004 in 3dmax6.
For some reason I did not pursue this project further. I still have 3dmax6 but it only works on a 32 bit system.

I have not tried this sort of thing in blender yet.

https://youtu.be/BobrgCj3daw (https://youtu.be/BobrgCj3daw)

https://youtu.be/DMz0ywwoHJ4 (https://youtu.be/DMz0ywwoHJ4)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 11, 2021, 04:27:18 AM
I like the first one, Glen. 8)  I have many brain farts, maybe I could model that. :D

You would think 3dmax6 would still work, I have a 64 bit system but gmax is so old that is surely 32 bit and that still works for me, it does throw a few error messages on load up but I think that is more a problem with my possible misplaced/missed scripts and such rather than a sign of malfunction due to the 64 bit system, any techie Guru out there please for advice on this?

That said I have never yet tried anything with animations, for IL-2 I just orientate the part accordingly so either the java will move it or the user can move something like the Coles crane around in a circle.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on October 11, 2021, 06:16:17 AM
pre-64bit versions of payware 3Dmax present an install problem rather than a functional one with complicated authentication procedures that don't support the 64 bit os, whereas gmax is freeware. I experienced the same issue with Maya,with no upgrade patches available from the developers. Thank god for gmax and open source Blender. :)

As I have said before, learning Blender is worthwhile if you want to go beyond the features of Gmax in the future. With my cliff model shading issues in blender, I recreated the model with Gmax/3dmax to prove that the problem was not blender related and it was like riding a bicycle, you don't forget how to use it.  :)

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 11, 2021, 08:07:36 AM
Hello Glen, that really is a pain, I intended to buy whatever version of 3dmax was available five or so years back, however, illness and unemployment hit what funds I had been setting aside so it was not to be, now you have to rent it and I have neither the finance or the need for it, so yes, thankful for what is actually still available. ;)

If I was qualified as a 3d artist and earning a living freelance then renting would I suppose be considered the best option because updates would I think come as part of the package, however, for those who bought into the system prior to the change there should be a hassle free way of maintaining it especially if like us it is your hobby.

Gmax has given me and many others through the years the opportunity to try 3d and to be honest I like how it functions, so has Blender for many others and the stuff made with it looks excellent, I have Blender and a whole lot of tutorials available including one to build a P-40 but I just cannot seem to get into it, I need to clear my head of projects and actually sit down with it and force myself to try it again.  I looked around for courses local and online but nothing near and all too expensive, I doubt now with the pain I get I could sit very long in any classroom environment anyway, I should have done it years ago instead of more work related stuff I did at college, too late now for fomal training but at least I can still tinker at home when it suits.  :D

A great shame I am not qualified in 3d as it might give me a option to do some kind of work at home using the entirety of the week day and night and fitting things around the illness as and when possible, anyway, it is what it is. :(

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on October 11, 2021, 09:21:29 AM
A friend of mine uses photoshop professionally, and she rents it . She gets upgrades at no extra cost whereas before she would have had to buy a full new complete version, so for professionals it definately works out cheaper to rent.

I initially didn't want to use blender because of the node system that it uses, but had to out of necessity. I use the later versions without having to use nodes to achieve what I want.

There are loads of video tuts on the net, you just have to sift through them to find one that explains it perfectly for you.

You have to start from scratch, learning the ui, and then creating and editing basic mesh  ect , leave aircraft tuts for later.

I'm sending you a Pm with some stuff that might help.

Glen
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 11, 2021, 12:29:33 PM
Thank you very much for those Glen, really appreciated. 8)

I have all kinds of tutorials for both Blender and Max, so much stuff it is difficult to know where to start, the beginning is probably best, basics first
for Blender as I already have some time in a Max program.  ;)

My problem is I tinker too much, get a rough idea and away I go, not necessarily in the right direction, for me the classroom always felt the best place because
the course would be structured and take you through in a focused way and with others around it seemed the better environment, at home there are too many
distractions and too many ideas of what I would like to do, most likely missing important steps, learning by making a mess first. :D

Considering I live in major city I have yet to actually find any books on 3d modelling, magazines yes, no books. :o  I prefer to read a book sat in a chair with a cup
of tea by my side and then later take it to the P.C. and have a go, for the stuff in IL_2 it has meant glancing through various forums trying to bookmark the best, or
what appeared to be the best, funny thing with a book I usually get a idea of how I will take to it just by flicking through the pages to get a feel for the layout but
so far everything has had by necessity come mainly from video tutorials.

There does not even seem to be any type of course close to me in a University town of all places, we have always had colleges supporting the engineering side of employment in the region and in more recent years University courses have sprung up everywhere, I have yet to see any mention of 3d modelling though. o_O

Is it art or computer technology?  I assume because there do not seem to be specifics that it is included in a broader course, certainly anything I have seen
tended to be for Universities which might imply students are streamed somewhere along the line, were exactly do you enter this skill set?

Anyway, thanks again Glen, I will take a look hopefully in the not too distant future.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Shessi on October 13, 2021, 03:40:03 AM
Hi Pete,
Firstly, thank you very much for taking the time and skill to make the Coles, a work of art, superb. Also adding to that for bothering to give us a 'diary' of the workings, very interesting and inspiring for me.

As said, love the tex choices, and am enjoying it as another emersion add-on in the sim.

I know even Gmax is limited up against 3ds and even Blender, but I think you and many others do pretty ok with it..lol ;)  Adding in animation is good fun, and doesn't have to be complicated.

As for sim pilot/figures, although the standard ones are not bad, it would be nice to have a new selection. Bck in 2011 Wolfighter started some fantastic WWI and then WWII pilot figures, but they were never finished, I've PM'd him about them but....
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,40081.msg454060.html#msg454060
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,19662.0.html

Re-workings of newer CAD's, you prob already know, but FSdeveloper is a great place for info and help https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/.  I'll PM you with some info about 3dsmax 7 and 9.

Cheers

Shessi

Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 13, 2021, 05:49:19 AM
Hello Shessi, hopefully in the next two weeks this particular vehicle will be done. :o

It has been a long road but glad you and others are happy with it, not bad for a amateur me thinks. ;)

Strange thing is with gmax it came as a S.D.K. for one of the Microsoft flight series, I have F.S.X but have not actually made anything for it
but many of the best tutorials out there for gmax are by those that do/did make stuff for it, maybe one day I might have a go, I added things
in to mine but very rarely used it.  I have bookmarked the link, thank you very much, really appreciated. 8)

Making a few figures is on the list but when I know not, getting the vehicles done is the main priority the figures I used are excellent so as they
were available in IL_2 it seemed to be the best option just modifying them slightly to fit the cab.

We have been blessed to have many individuals come and go from IL-2 over the years who enhanced things in many ways, sadly Wolfighter has not
been here for some time so I doubt now we will see his work brought to fruition, sad but there you go, we all move on at some time, I fly very little
but making stuff for IL-2 is my go to therapy. :D

Sometime I will take the plunge with Blender, it is so much more up to date than gmax and practically on a par with 3ds that even games companies and film
makers use models from a very talented club of individuals who have made the application their own, Glen has kindly added to my collection of tutorials so sooner
or later I will sit and study it and make a few simple things.

The conversion of the Thorneycroft to tow a trailer might be next up because I have already started the add on parts for it but they need mapping and it will get a simple flat bed trailer, I will then move on to tackle the Queen Mary and its tractor unit so I will stay with gmax for those, once I finish this particular project then it might be time to branch out further and see what Blender has to offer.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 19, 2021, 07:00:52 AM
Hello guys, as of today I now consider the Thorneycroft Amazon, Coles crane combination of this project finished. ;)

I have added the release candidate into the vehicles page with links to the latest update:

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,67604.0.html

All previous download links have been removed from the first post but the thread will remain open for future work and updates
on the other vehicles mentioned through the thread.

The model now includes all LODs for the moving vehicles and the static objects.

Moving vehicle and its stationary will show a damaged version when the game decides they are destroyed.

Static objects also have a damaged version included, however, the static objects do not actually have a
working damage model, the player uses either intact or destroyed versions in their missions.

Still to do:

Possible additional objects such as slings and chains for the crane and maybe a roof rack for the Thorneycroft.

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: rogeroger on October 19, 2021, 12:05:46 PM
Well done Pete  :)

See you back here soon with your next project.
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Andy H on October 19, 2021, 12:15:07 PM
I'm far from mechanically minded, but it's been absolutely fascinating watching this project and appreciating the work that's gone into it. Good stuff!  :)
Title: Re: Thorneycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1/Coles Mk VII, series 2.
Post by: Mission_bug on October 20, 2021, 03:49:48 AM
See you back here soon with your next project.

The next is a skin. o_O

(https://i.postimg.cc/j2tC0KcG/2021-10-20-09-24-21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BL7JHrdg)

I'm far from mechanically minded, but it's been absolutely fascinating watching this project and appreciating the work that's gone into it. Good stuff!  :)

Considering I have always made things more or less, I think many of my former employers might feel the same about me. :D

Glad you guys have found it interesting, I have, the project will continue as I want to still build the Queen Mary and the Bedford
tractor unit, however, first up as far as the build goes is this because I already made a start:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gj79yHxN/Articulated.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HpFstb9)

The real vehicle had a different shaped radiator and no bumper, maybe I will just leave what I have as is, I do not want to
make it a major project just a little add on, I will try not to get carried away. :-[

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjQ5Lc77/Articulated-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ct7TVW07)

I do not have much in the way of good visible information for these so it will be a case of trying to interpret
what I can see, there will be much artistic license me thinks. :P

The trailer will be just a simple flat bed I think utilizing existing axle parts and again much more imagining than
actual reproduction of any particular one. ;)

Take care and be safe.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D