Special Aircraft Service

Individual Mod Downloads for IL-2 1946 => Aircraft => WWI => Topic started by: gio963tto on November 24, 2015, 12:20:32 PM

Title: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: gio963tto on November 24, 2015, 12:20:32 PM
Morane Saulnier type G/H -L/LA -PfalzEI

The Morane-Saulnier G before the outbreak of war was considered one of the planes with performing and fast, used as scouts to the opening of hostilities was quickly replaced by models H single-seater and L single/two-seater from the special wing called "Parasol", in particular the L was the first fighter with a rudimentary synchronizer, the first to shoot down a Zeppelin and the two models was built for both Entente and for Germany.
Immortalized by companies of some airmen as Roland Garros the first to be called "Ace" from Warneford the first VC for a Pilot, he became however quickly outdated by the progress of war he started.
The various models low wing were produced in small numbers and mainly used by the French, Russians and Germans, the L was produced in over 600 pieces and serve in all countries of the Entente and those of the Central Powers.
Over 400 products from Dux and Lebed served in Russia until the Revolution.

(http://s23.postimg.cc/48buzaagb/MSL01.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s10.postimg.cc/q88td434p/MSL02.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s17.postimg.cc/46av7tnmn/MSG02.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s12.postimg.cc/ebtnbb96l/MSG01.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

3D model by: gio963tto.
Default skins: Stalker.
Slot:  Mission_bug, using renamed LVG-BI java classes with 3Dparts from the original model for the cockpit.
UrL for D/L:

A gift from Mission Bug, the Morane type G "two-seater", add the folder / 3DO, CLass, FM and entries to the folder / Morane .... family /  and to ...INI.
overwrite when prompted

for skins to Folder named: MoraneSaulnier_G2

Greetings Gio.

Final version by Mission bug
https://www.mediafire.com/?jt9ijjja2iya6js
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on November 24, 2015, 12:38:59 PM
Wonderful addition for the start of the era of aerial combats!

Thanks a lot for share!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on November 24, 2015, 01:00:23 PM
Exellent choice for new planes, Morane Parasol was on the top of my wishlist.

Thanks a lot!! :)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on November 24, 2015, 01:22:10 PM
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Poltava on November 24, 2015, 01:52:55 PM

+1!  :)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 24, 2015, 08:12:23 PM
Excellent work! I'll do single missions for them as soon as I can. I got them working in 4.10 Modact 3.06. The plane Rex Warneford used to destroy a Zeppelin in 1915 was armed with bombs. I guess they were 20lb Cooper bombs. Is there any chance of arming the Morane L, and LA with these? The ones with 3 Squadron RFC had bombs.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: oldschoolie on November 25, 2015, 04:09:25 AM
Thank you, Gio, for this excellent addition.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on November 25, 2015, 04:53:12 AM
I don't have words !!!!  I just say .... thanks one more time .  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Cheers

Carlos
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Airbourne on November 25, 2015, 08:17:49 AM
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: dona on November 25, 2015, 08:20:03 AM
Thank you for this great early bird addition!! ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 25, 2015, 08:35:57 AM
I can't believe it!! Thank you so much!!

EDIT:

Had a chance to get these in the air. Love them all!

The M.S. Type-G and the Pfalz E.I are my favorites by far! Beautiful aircraft indeed!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 25, 2015, 12:30:12 PM
This missed the post, Morane Saulnier G two seater;

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Update%20D_zpsa70u4tjd.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Update%20D_zpsa70u4tjd.jpg.html)

Maybe later. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on November 25, 2015, 03:41:32 PM
Many thanks Gio, stalker & Pete for this lovely collection of a/c
A delight to fly and a useful payload  ;)

(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q668/alfienoakes2013/2015.11.24%2020-43-23_zpslgarfaju.jpg)

Alfie uses the new 10kg Tar Brand to devastating effect    :D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 25, 2015, 06:01:50 PM
It looks just fine. I guess it'll turn up in it's own good time.

cheers

David
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on November 26, 2015, 12:12:30 AM
Quote
I guess it'll turn up in it's own good time.

:D :D :D
I'm also trying to work out what 40kg bombs, a m/g and a gunner would do to the top speed of  a Morane........
I think the LA model would struggle to make 100kph...... o_O

Marvelous  :D

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 26, 2015, 03:11:57 AM
Hello guys, the two seater from what I read was a racer but retains the bombs of the single seat G just in
case it was armed, the cockpit bomb would most likely just be carried if there were two aboard ;)

I am told up to about 270kg of bombs could be carried by some of the aircraft, other than that the only information
I had to go on regarding armament were images provided by Stalker from various sources.

The main limitation would be the bombs carried inside the cockpit, 16 kg I think was mentioned as a figure.

Here are the images provided by Stalker that helped considerably in placement of the external loads, they also
show some of the guns:

(http://s17.postimg.cc/nj95hverz/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s24.postimg.cc/hgo3ulr39/G_with_bombs.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s14.postimg.cc/hors3c0a9/loyiko4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s4.postimg.cc/f40td5b4t/New_bomb_position.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s18.postimg.cc/s09dfpmqh/3_Yt_CRz_Sa.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s29.postimg.cc/5jhbuommf/22_5.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s1.postimg.cc/o9i85t19r/22_6.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s4.postimg.cc/babyhqj6l/63464.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s15.postimg.cc/rqqsr5rln/parasol_gun.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

What I do not know is the type of bombs actually used or their exact weight, WWI is not actually
a period I have much information on so I rely on you guys to provide me with photographs and
specific information otherwise I just use what is to hand.

The types of bombs used are off other aircraft because I already know they work and will show
in each of my installs, DBW 1916, DBW 1.71 and TD 4.12 with SAS ModAct 5.30.

David has asked for Cooper bombs, those I could add but where?  Same position as on the Nieuports?
How many?

Other versions can also be added but again specific information would help considerably.

For eg. If you want a Pfalz A1, is it single or two seat, guns and bombs or just bombs or just a gun, exact designation.

I think you get the idea, what I do not want to do is guess what you ask for or make a incorrect assumption, also
a photograph if possible.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 26, 2015, 03:49:30 AM
Here are two more images that were a request from Stalker:

(http://s1.postimg.cc/k7g08xltb/attachment_Pfalz.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s13.postimg.cc/m0kimnah3/attachment_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Moran LA / LA and Pfalz A.I"

"Pfalz A1 - Only bombs
Pfalz F1G -pulemet"

The information was to me a little confusing so I can make assumptions:

Pfalz A1 = Like the Morane Saulnier_L two seater, bombs no guns.

Pfalz from the photograph = Like the Morane Saulnier_RG, single seater but with the same machine gun as the Pfalz E1.   Bombs or not?

From the second image Pfalz/Morane? = Like the Morane Saulnier LA/R but with the gun similar to the RG, one
forward firing the other in the turret.  Two seater but does it also have bombs?

If I type 'pulemet' into a internet search it sends me to links for Kalisnikov or AK-47, so what exactly is that and more importantly is
it the weapon Gio used for the MS_RG?

It is not always easy to look at a photograph and determine whether it is a two seater or not, if a second windscreen is
there then you can go with two seat but if not?  Could be single seat but also two without a screen, these are not
aircraft I am familiar with so usually I just go with what Gio has in the folders and name them accordingly.

I am not in the best of health at the moment so doing anything is a struggle and takes much longer than it did, I can
only do it a bit at a time so I do not want to spend many hours building a aircraft on a assumption only to find it is wrong.

So if you want something adding please be specific and provide as much information as you can. ;)

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 26, 2015, 07:17:57 AM

No more than 4-6 Cooper bombs for the L, and LA please. The mountings shown in the pics look OK.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on November 26, 2015, 08:33:11 AM
Pete
Ignore my inane prattlings, sod the Morane and get well soon  ;D
You're far too valuable a modder to loose....especially to us WW I addicts  :D

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on November 26, 2015, 04:18:32 PM
This was the initial way to carry bombs on Russian Moranes:

(http://s3.postimg.cc/h8ct3b10j/post_650_1271528257.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s4.postimg.cc/m5xwwlaa5/post_650_1271701966.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 26, 2015, 07:21:41 PM
Will there be a template released so that we can paint and fly unmarked examples as civilian aircraft or early no-roundel scouts?? Beautiful work so far!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: stalker on November 26, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
Will there be a template released so that we can paint and fly unmarked examples as civilian aircraft or early no-roundel scouts?? Beautiful work so far!
but this is not enough?
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49181.0.html
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 27, 2015, 05:00:29 AM

No more than 4-6 Cooper bombs for the L, and LA please. The mountings shown in the pics look OK.

The Cooper bombs are quite slim so if I use existing weapon slots they would possibly stick out quite a way from the fuselage, I will try that but if I am correct in my assumption I will place new slots and add the rack and four bombs under the fuselage I think. :-|

Pete
Ignore my inane prattlings, sod the Morane and get well soon  ;D
You're far too valuable a modder to loose....especially to us WW I addicts  :D

Cheers

Alfie

No problem Alfie, it is hoped people will post comments and information in the thread that will hopefully improve the model. ;)

I am not going to make any changes just yet so you guys have a chance to experiment with what you have and report back on what you feel needs changing, that said I cannot guarantee I can actually implement what you want.

This was the initial way to carry bombs on Russian Moranes:

Thank you very much for the photographs Dreamk, greatly appreciated, I will add that option on the to do list. 8)

Will there be a template released so that we can paint and fly unmarked examples as civilian aircraft or early no-roundel scouts?? Beautiful work so far!

What, judging by the huge amount of outstanding skins that Stalker made for this series of aircraft can there possibly be some he missed. :o

I think you will find his downloads usually include the templates. 8)

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 27, 2015, 05:59:27 AM
Hello guys, I have been searching through the many folders today sent to me by Gio and Stalker and it looks like I had something on the Pfalz A1 all along. :-[

Apologies to Stalker for that, I will now take a look and see just what needs doing.  ;)

The model does not show in my SkinL programme but does in the Stainless one so it may yet need some tinkering to get it going.

Anyway, here are the images that were also in that folder:

(http://s14.postimg.cc/dp9iysr8x/59_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s29.postimg.cc/3l1232jc7/pfalza1_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

This actually looks as though there is no rear cockpit as the airman is sat on what looks like a
solid fuselage. :-|

(http://s28.postimg.cc/7z8dwxe71/pfalza1_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Definately a two seater, no forward firing gun.

(http://s16.postimg.cc/k9opobun9/pfalza1_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

These would seem to indicate that the PfalzA1 version is definately a two seater and in the images unarmed except possibly with bombs.

So again to the earlier image that has a nose mounted machine gun like the Pfalz E-1, is that a armed two seater or could we conclude that
like the RG version we do in fact have a German single seat type with forward firing gun?

Such a mass of information comes my way that unfortunately some of it is moved and forgotten. :-[

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: leperemagloire on November 27, 2015, 06:18:23 AM
SkniL :

If it does not take into account the .him he opened well .mesh; here can help. ;)
I noticed that it does not accept //, overly large spaces between paragraphs (1 line is enough) or TGA formats not recognized this app.
It would be nice if the author of this app could tell what tga formats accepted.
;)

"The model does not show in my SkinL programme"

after test : no problem for me with the 7 models
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 27, 2015, 08:23:52 AM
SkniL :

If it does not take into account the .him he opened well .mesh; here can help. ;)
I noticed that it does not accept //, overly large spaces between paragraphs (1 line is enough) or TGA formats not recognized this app.
It would be nice if the author of this app could tell what tga formats accepted.
;)

"The model does not show in my SkinL programme"

after test : no problem for me with the 7 models

Hello leperemagloire, thank you very much for the information greatly appreciated. 8)

The existing models available in the download are fine for me also, I was refering to another folder I have that contains parts for the Pfalz A1. ;)

I use the programme for placement of parts so it is essential in any project but some things show others not. :(

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 27, 2015, 03:04:43 PM
Will there be a template released so that we can paint and fly unmarked examples as civilian aircraft or early no-roundel scouts?? Beautiful work so far!
but this is not enough?
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49181.0.html

I didnt see those.  ;D Thank you these will be perfect!!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 28, 2015, 04:44:30 AM
Hello guys, I have now got a renamed L in the game as the Pfalz A.I.

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/WIP%201_zpsgbjyjtf6.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/WIP%201_zpsgbjyjtf6.jpg.html)

This is the one that would not show previously in my SkinL programme, seems it was a texture issue.

From new information kindly provided by Gio it seems the version armed with a synchronised gun as on the E.I
is the Pfalz.II or as it was named later Pfalz E.III.  Looking at the images I now have it could actually be the two
seater but armed with the gun rather than a single seater.

Maybe I will do one of each just to be sure. :D

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 28, 2015, 05:22:07 AM
Thanks, I'll see if I can find some pics of Morane Ls carrying bombs.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 28, 2015, 07:29:52 AM
Thanks, I'll see if I can find some pics of Morane Ls carrying bombs.

Thank you David, that would help considerably. ;)

Pfalz II:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Pfalz%20II_zpswxm6muyi.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Pfalz%20II_zpswxm6muyi.jpg.html)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 28, 2015, 08:51:12 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394716/WWI-Fighter-pilot-Reginald-Warneford-ignored-Victoria-Cross-commemoration.html

The above is a link to Rex Warneford who downed a Zeppelin. Originally it was a night raid. They were going after Zeppelin sheds. Each pilot had a revolver, and six 20 pound bombs.

cheers

David
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 28, 2015, 08:55:00 AM
Morane H sea-plane anyone?

http://www.picsearch.com/imageDetail.cgi?id=4dSoPekHZKMc-CsoeMgIMfVZotmRu7-8NpVaIYcX3k4&start=425&q=Morane-Saulnier%20LA
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on November 28, 2015, 10:28:38 AM
Quote
The above is a link to Rex Warneford who downed a Zeppelin. Originally it was a night raid. They were going after Zeppelin sheds. Each pilot had a revolver, and six 20 pound bombs.

.............and balls of STEEL  8)

From http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/bbwarnef.htm......

"I left Furnes at 1:00 am on 7th June 1915 on Morane No. 3253 under orders to look for Zeppelins and attack the Berchem St Agathe Airship Shed with six 20 lb bombs.
On arriving at Dixmude at 1:15 am, I observed a Zeppelin apparently over Ostend and proceeded in chase of the same. I arrived at close quarters a few miles past Bruges at 1:50 am and the Airship opened heavy maxim fire, so I retreated to gain height and the Airship turned and followed me.

At 2:15 am it stopped firing and 2:25 am I came behind, but well above the Zeppelin; height then 11,000 feet, and switched off my engine to descend on top of him. When close above him at 7,000 feet altitude I dropped my bombs, and, whilst releasing the last, there was an explosion which lifted my machine and turned it over. The aeroplane was out of control for a short period, went into a nose dive, but control was regained. I then saw the Zeppelin was on the ground in flames.

The joint on my petrol pipe and pump from the back tank was broken and at about 2:40 am I was forced to land in enemy territory to repair my pump. I made preparations to set the machine on fire, but was not observed, so was able to effect a repair of the aircraft and after considerable difficulty in starting my engine single handed, was able to take off and head in a South Westerly direction.

I tried several times to find my whereabouts but was unable to do so, so I eventually landed and discovered I was at Cape Gris Nez, where I was given petrol by French soldiers. When the weather cleared I was able to proceed and arrived back at my Aerodrome about 10:30 am. "

This is a man who's bombing a Zeppelin...... at night..... in a Morane    o_O :o o_O

Absolute HERO

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 28, 2015, 10:55:36 AM
Impressive account! Those Pfalz machines look wonderful!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 28, 2015, 01:23:25 PM
Hello guys, yes a very impressive feat indeed and the tragedy is that he will not be added to a monument devoted to such men of courage and given the rightful recognition he surely deserves because he was not actually born here, so sad.  :(

How long did it take our nation to honour the sacrifice of the bomber crews in WWII, 70 years or so.  >:(

The bomb load out for this aircraft is progressing slowly but surely, a very tedious process aligning everything:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Bomb%20rack%202_zps6vzcp39t.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Bomb%20rack%202_zps6vzcp39t.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Bomb%20rack%203_zpsmvrgy1fd.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Bomb%20rack%203_zpsmvrgy1fd.jpg.html)

Unfortunately, exactly how the rack is attached to the aircraft is hard to determine.

This image kindly provided by Gio and that which David posted are the best indication I have:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Bomb%20rack_zpsygscgp3w.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Bomb%20rack_zpsygscgp3w.jpg.html)

It would seem the rack is attached to the rear strut but exactly how or where the parts are held is unclear.

I utilised two of Dreamk's Cooper bomb racks aligned side by side to get the holders for six bombs.

The racks are not actually touching the struts so I will have to find a piece of 3d to extend to the strut so it looks as
though the rack is supported.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 28, 2015, 03:58:26 PM
Imagine as the pilot notes: An EXPLOSION that turned the Morane UPSIDE DOWN!!!.... Its a small miracle that the machine wasn't smashed by the concussion. Then he made a landing in the dark as well, and managed to effect crude repairs, also presumably in the dark, since he was clearly attempting to avoid capture.... and to takeoff again! A brave and resourceful kind of fellow!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on November 28, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
Just 2 small observations after testing these nice planes in 413 (you need to add the textures folder from the Polikarpov R1, the ww1 weapons pack and the last SAS buttons and these planes run very well in 413).
1) a minor bug - there is a need to correct the pivots orientations of the wheels so they will gear in the correct direction
2) something more important - the position of the gun on the G/H is wrong - the muzzle was attached to the middle bar between the two frontal cockpit struts and not outside the struts. This kind of installation was teh one seen on Russian machines.

(http://s13.postimg.cc/nlrnicydj/Wof_Russia01_MS_G_Sveshnikov.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

The French preferred to put metallic deflectors on the back of the propellers and shoot through the propellers. An installation that began to be used on Morane H then became "standard" generalized on Morane I and N (The schema is from 1914, the photograph below is of a Morane N).

(http://s24.postimg.cc/hyc9qhl6d/Saulnier_R_Tir_Helice_1914.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s13.postimg.cc/rahchu8ef/Jean_Navarre.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

For the Morane L, beyond the rear firing gun already shown in previous posts on this thread,there was also this forward firing installation

(http://s30.postimg.cc/yloat6y2p/msl_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

and of course here too the original device used by Rolland Garros in France (shooting  through propellers equipped with metallic deflectors.
(http://s2.postimg.cc/nkj1u0szt/garro1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

3) BTW the black "braces" meshes seen in these modded aircraft model attached behind the propeller ARE the deflector blades - So for aircraft not firing through the propeller these meshes must be deleted.....(even if a lot of drawings running on the net and in so-called "specialized" books put them on all of these planes without understanding their function.....)

(http://s10.postimg.cc/gfftkgcnt/garro2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 28, 2015, 05:05:06 PM
That bomb rack looks fine. I'm sure nobody will be able to gainsay your arrangement. It's certainly an injustice about Rex Warneford's name not being on the memorial. Bureaucrats, who needs them?
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 28, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
It looks like the Lewis gun on the Morane LA would only have one mag. Anyone for a mid-air mag change?
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: gio963tto on November 29, 2015, 01:57:41 AM
This missed the post, Morane Saulnier G two seater;

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Update%20D_zpsa70u4tjd.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Update%20D_zpsa70u4tjd.jpg.html)

Maybe later. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

at the topic

A gift from Mission Bug, the Morane type G "biplace", add the folder / 3DO, CLass, FM and entries to the folder / Morane.... family  / and to  ...  INI.
overwrite when prompted

greetins Gio.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on November 29, 2015, 03:25:23 AM
I want to express my gratitude to everyone involved, specially to Gio and MisionBug for adding this wonderful early war machines. Hope to see a N Morane soon.

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 29, 2015, 04:33:52 AM
Thank you very much for adding the link for the two seater Gio, greatly appreciated. 8)

Hello Dreamk, thank you very much for the information, that is also greatly appreciated,
your previous belly mounted bombs are next on the to do list once I figure out what to
attach the Cooper racks to.  ;)

Hopefully Gio will take on board some of your points and do the alterations.

I think I only noticed the deflectors on one aircraft, they are really distracting, makes your eyes water.

I like the Lewis gun on the wing, I could try that if folks want a version, there is also a Russian aircraft shown
in a image I would like to add but I am not sure if the weapon is available on any of the existing models.

That also is a turreted aircraft with forward firing gun, how many versions of these aircraft were there, this
project could become a life time WIP. :o

Glad you all like what you have so far guys, not sure just when the extra aircraft will be added at the moment, stay tuned.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on November 29, 2015, 04:42:48 AM
Mission_Bug If you need any ww1 aircraft weapon (MG or cannon) just tell me - I have made meshes for all (up to 20mm caliber included) of them. I can send them to you. (Their java files are already present in the ww1 weapons pack I uploaded)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/rd0cvvd5d/ww1_guns_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)(http://s1.postimg.cc/rz4x98wpr/ww1_guns_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)(http://s28.postimg.cc/z1ipx5lql/ww1_guns_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)(http://s23.postimg.cc/gdlchzlob/ww1_guns_4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)(http://s23.postimg.cc/7731upgfv/ww1_guns_5.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)(http://s7.postimg.cc/qajvso81n/ww1_guns_6.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 29, 2015, 06:46:57 AM
Hello Dreamk, that is certainly a very impressive collection of weapons you have made, outstanding. 8)

In a request to me Stalker asked for a version of the LA/LR fitted with something he called 'pulemet', which
I think was intended to be in the turret and also a forward firing, a search gave me various types of gun that
were Kalisnikov or AK but as I am not familiar with them I did not know what to use and thought maybe the gun
on the RG might suffice.

This is the image he sent, sadly no close up photograph that enabled me to compare with other weapons:

(http://s27.postimg.cc/jvheoh16b/attachment_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

The image is not clear enough to make out exactly what the weapon is so may have been sent just to illustrate
how the weapons were mounted.

If one of those in your collection is the weapon he asked for then could you please send me that.

Also you have what I think is Vickers on a mount and that mount as a seperate item, they could be used to replicate
the photograph you posted of the wing mounted weapon.  Any of those would look superb and certainly look better than
me just attaching the existing gun in the pack on to the wing as it is.

The mount might be the prefered option as I could use the pack Vickers attached to that but I could alter the position to more

With regard to your weapons pack is there any type of frame in there that I could use to to attach the Cooper racks to the MS, as
you see from my image it is in air so to speak and I need something that could be used to make those racks look as though they are
part of a structure bolted to the aircraft?

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 29, 2015, 07:10:10 AM
If one is made with the wing mounted Vickers, is it possible to have a load out without that vickers using the empty mount also seen above?? This could represent an aircraft hastily unarmed or scrambled.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 29, 2015, 08:25:39 AM
If one is made with the wing mounted Vickers, is it possible to have a load out without that vickers using the empty mount also seen above?? This could represent an aircraft hastily unarmed or scrambled.

To do that the gun would have to be a seperate part so that the load out can be achieved in the java, the mount itself could be attached
to the model permanently though, at the moment the current machine guns are part of the model attached using the hier.

The trouble is in the cockpit folder it is necessary to add the guns mesh so you can see it, look for the bombs and you will
see you cannot see them from the cockpit even if they are added in the option screen, this is the reason each aircraft has
its own cockpit folder so you can add each of the changes that represent the different models, so in your scenario you might
not see the gun if it were added from the java.

The wing is another case, on other aircraft you can usually remove the outer part of the wing leaving only the inner section to
get rid of the holes you would see without a mesh there, this leaves the outer wing visible and providing you use the same basic
skin colour you can change skins and see those new insignia.  Sadly the Moranes wing is all one piece and even if you reduce
the length the markings will still appear from the skin1o but will all be distorted.

Without any clear indication of just how the bombs frame is fixed to the aircraft I made a rather basic frame from
parts in my Lysander, suitably reducing the diameter of the rods.  Trouble is it looks more like rigging wires at the
moment. :D

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Frame_zpsx8jojrsc.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Frame_zpsx8jojrsc.jpg.html)

The better alternative may be just to have a bar back and front to extend the current Cooper frames to where
the undercarriage supports are to suggest the frame is bolted there.  No matter which way I do it the frame will
have to become a object applied through the java of the load out rather than as you see above where it is fixed
to the fuselage using the hier.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 29, 2015, 10:31:00 AM
Ok guys, this is another attempt to make something the racks can attach to. ;)

If no one has any better suggestions this is what I will go with. :D

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Frame%202_zpstz1ggjmj.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Frame%202_zpstz1ggjmj.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Frame%203_zps1i86vcsa.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Frame%203_zps1i86vcsa.jpg.html)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 29, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
If one is made with the wing mounted Vickers, is it possible to have a load out without that vickers using the empty mount also seen above?? This could represent an aircraft hastily unarmed or scrambled.

To do that the gun would have to be a seperate part so that the load out can be achieved in the java, the mount itself could be attached
to the model permanently though, at the moment the current machine guns are part of the model attached using the hier.

Isn't there an empty rack in the photo? It's identical to the rack beneath the Lewis gun shown. Maybe a Lewis armed varient would work as there appear to be several lewis guns to choose from. Just an idea.

P.S. All those weaponry are exquisite! Great work DreamK!!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 29, 2015, 02:50:25 PM

Isn't there an empty rack in the photo? It's identical to the rack beneath the Lewis gun shown. Maybe a Lewis armed varient would work as there appear to be several lewis guns to choose from. Just an idea.

Yes there maybe a empty rack, but what you want is a multitude of versions all of the same aircraft:

Morane L.
Morane L with just rack.
Morane L with rack and gun.

Where does it stop?  Just how many variations of the same thing would we need to satisfy everyone?

Sorry, I am not going down that road, I am quite happy to add new armed versions no problem, not extra just to show
it with and without the gun.

Besides the Morane L I have already added a Pfalz A1, essentialy the same aircraft again but for the reasons I explained
I made the German version because it needs that default skin.

Anyway, here is the other armament option Dreamk provide information for:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/G%20new%20bombs_zpsup7jivkr.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/G%20new%20bombs_zpsup7jivkr.jpg.html)

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 29, 2015, 05:39:27 PM
Fair enough Mission-bug, no harm intended.

Just thought it would be cool for ground scenes mostly.

In truth such a load out would be quite useless... as adding the weight IRL would be folly if you weren't going armed, so the flying With the mount but without the gun would be so rare as to be a pointless option in game.

In any case, I thank you for your work and wish I could contribute. 😀 Unfortunately time prohibits me from taking time to get into the learning curve. 😔
Looking forward to whatever you may come up with!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 29, 2015, 07:17:15 PM
It looks fine. If anyone can find a photo to contradict it, buy a lottery ticket.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on November 30, 2015, 07:43:02 AM
Pulemet means machine-gun i Russian. IRAS machines used whatever MG they could find - designed for aircarft or not - Madsen, Lewis, Vickers, Colt, even Maxim 1910.
The drawing is taken from "Samolety Pervoy Mirovoy Voyny - strany Antanty" (First World War Aircraft, Entente States) - a very good book for data but very average drawings, although some of them are unique representations of little known types, and experience has shown that they are rather truthful to original photographs (these being often scarce and of low quality, the average quality of the drawing is somehow intentional).
The gun shown on the Morane L is a Lewis (either a "stripped" Lewis MkI - or an "aircraft" Lewis) although Russian also used "infantry" Lewis MkI on their planes
(http://s29.postimg.cc/736dv4sdz/Morane_Type_L.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s23.postimg.cc/5mkmq0fm3/Morane_Type_G.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s11.postimg.cc/hey6i650z/Russian_Lewis_1917_Aircraft_Gun.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s22.postimg.cc/nqaqkichd/Russian_Lewis_Mk_I_Aircraft_Gun.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

The bombs on Russian Morane, vertical or horizontal would be Russian 5, 10 or 25 Funt bombs, not Carbonit

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 30, 2015, 08:34:59 AM
Hello Dreamk, thank you very much for the information, greatly appreciated. 8)

That now gives me something to work to. ;)

The bombs on all aircraft were purely place holders until some one could provide the information on the correct ones to use.

Your bomb packs were ideal as a base, and someone did suggest Carbonite, if the Russaian types are present in your packs
then now I know what to look for I can start to make the changes.

The same issue arises with all the armament on all these aircraft, WWI is not actually my subject so I rely on those with the
knowledge to point me in the right direction, sadly very few are forthcoming with that information and as I lack the references
then I just use what is to hand.

I will now see if I can add that Russian Morane Stalker asked for to the pack. :)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 30, 2015, 08:43:44 AM
This URL should give  you all the inspiration you need Pete.

cheers

David
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on November 30, 2015, 09:53:12 AM
Blackadder season 4 is the apex of  Rowan Atkinson's acting - in the final episode he succeeds to reach this level where comedy and tragedy become one and touch the deepest in your soul and heart.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 30, 2015, 12:46:20 PM
Blackadder season 4 is the apex of  Rowan Atkinson's acting - in the final episode he succeeds to reach this level where comedy and tragedy become one and touch the deepest in your soul and heart.

That was quite a series, they do not seem to make anything so good anymore. :(

This is what for want of a better title I will call MS_L_RG, at the moment it is set with the gun from the LA
which I think is a Vickers:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/L_RG_zpskvpdovlv.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/L_RG_zpskvpdovlv.jpg.html)

Now I just need a Lewis gun to swap the for what I have working at the moment. ;)

Then again, maybe have a version of each. :D

Looks like a French/British version of the G is also necessary set up like the Pfalz E.I with the synchronised gun
up front.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on November 30, 2015, 03:01:23 PM
Both the gun on the pic are Lewis gun
from top to bottom":
A. Lewis 1914 "infantry" pattern (without butt, replaced by handles), also called Lewis MkI
(Russian aircraft often used regular infantry Lewis with the wooden butt)
E. Lewis "stripped" "infantry" pattern, also called "Lewis aircraft MkI",
G. "Lewis aircraft MkII",
K. "Lewis aircraft MkIII"
L. "Lewis RNAS pattern" (a "super stripped" MkI)

(http://s16.postimg.cc/qq6thxi6t/The_Lewis_Guns.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Here are the various forms of expanded cartridge pouches on a Lewis Aircraft MkI ("stripped infantry" pattern):

(http://s10.postimg.cc/9y3fvf4qx/The_Lewis_Guns_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

And here are the Vickers used in WW1 (Confusion comes from the fact that Post ww1 Vickers indeed look superficially like Lewis aircraft guns):
A. Vickers MkI "infantry pattern"
B. Vickers MkI "aircraft pattern 1916"
C. Vickers MkII "aircraft pattern 1917" (almost not used in ww1, but the standard aircraft weapon of the interwar years)

(http://s16.postimg.cc/4r9lm7g45/The_Vickers_Guns.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 30, 2015, 03:11:51 PM
I love the technical drawings of these weapons as much as anything else! Fort Rucker Alabama has one each of a Lewis, vickers, and one other type of MG on display in its WW1 wing opposite of their beautiful Fokker D.VIII. The guns are smaller than I guess I imagined that they were.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 30, 2015, 03:50:11 PM
Hello Dreamk, I have to agree with fresco23 on the technical drawings you have shared with us, outstanding. 8)

Seeing the reference material you have it is no wonder your weapon packs are a superb piece of work, I look forward to the release of all the guns
you posted a image of, we will be spoilt for choice. ;)

For the L_RG as I call it I borrowed the Lewis from the BE-2 and replaced what I showed earlier:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Russian%201_zpsbo6kl84q.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Russian%201_zpsbo6kl84q.jpg.html)

Experiments have also begun with adding the Russian bombs to some of the aircraft, the difficulty with that is most of these
aircraft would have served with many armed forces rather than just one so I may have to add multiple loads to all
but the German types or make further versions of the same type to accomodate specific national ordnance.

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Russian%202_zpsk915tpdk.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Russian%202_zpsk915tpdk.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Russian%204_zpsdgje1lz7.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Russian%204_zpsdgje1lz7.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Russian%203_zpsfunqeke3.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Russian%203_zpsfunqeke3.jpg.html)

This is becoming a very involved project indeed, when do I stop.  o_O

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on November 30, 2015, 03:52:30 PM
Outstanding work mates!! You guys are moving DBW1916 to new standards!!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on November 30, 2015, 05:33:12 PM
Agreed, fantastic work!

I'm going to try and use the template to make French "Default" skin for the MS. Type G as I will fly on that front more often. Got it arranged like I want, but having trouble getting the skin1o.tga to show in game. I've managed to get one showing before.... So surely I'm missing something so obvious that I'll slap myself for it! 😅

I'll offer it up for anyone if I ever get it sorted out. 😄
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on November 30, 2015, 06:57:52 PM
Thanks for this.

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on November 30, 2015, 08:23:50 PM
Agreed, fantastic work!

I'm going to try and use the template to make French "Default" skin for the MS. Type G as I will fly on that front more often. Got it arranged like I want, but having trouble getting the skin1o.tga to show in game. I've managed to get one showing before.... So surely I'm missing something so obvious that I'll slap myself for it! 😅

I'll offer it up for anyone if I ever get it sorted out. 😄

fresco23, to change a default skin load the QMB and apply the skin you want to be the default to the aircraft you wish to change.

Once that is done shut down and go to the PaintSchemes folder and find a folder in there called 'cache', inside there should be folders of all the aircraft you have added a skin to.

Find the one with the name of the aircraft you want and then copy the four files from there into your summer and winter folders in the plane folder of the aircraft you want to change.

That will alter the default, you also then need to copy the skin1o.tga into the cockpit folders of the aircraft you are changing the default for.

With that done you should be good to go and when you load up again everything will show the scheme you want. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on December 01, 2015, 06:55:14 AM
Oh my!! Thanks so much Mission-bug!! I'll try it after work this afternoon.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 01, 2015, 10:19:27 AM
Hello guys, the Pfalz E.III has now been added, this was a dedicated single seat fighter. ;)

(http://s17.postimg.cc/3l1a6si8f/Pfalz_E_III.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

It would sem only eight of these appeared at the front, regarded as ungainly and needed the

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Pfalz%20E.III_zpszxirwanr.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Pfalz%20E.III_zpszxirwanr.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Pfalz.EIII%202_zpsk8awe4eo.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Pfalz.EIII%202_zpsk8awe4eo.jpg.html)

Gio included the fin in the pack although what colours it I do not know. o_O

The only aircraft left I think to add is a version with the over wing Lewis gun as shown in the photograph that Dreamk
posted.  The guns and fixtures he showed would be ideal for this, hopefully he will be kind enough to make them available
so I can add them to the model folder.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on December 01, 2015, 02:57:56 PM
In the book "In the time of carbines" of the French Rene Chambe aviator he does quote the pleasure that his companion Roland Garros weapons, serving in the squadron MS 23 had to carry "some shells 90 with empennage" and attack troop concentrations and especially nearby railway stations battlefront covered by your aerial unit. And the emphasis on the fact that the bombs were carried by feet and dropped on the edge of the cockpit . In the early months of 1915 until your first victory yet ;
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 01, 2015, 03:58:38 PM
Well done those modders!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on December 01, 2015, 04:31:20 PM
I was looking for something else and I fell on this photograph - that probably serves as inspiration for the color drawing in post 15 - both vertical and horizontal arrays.

(http://s9.postimg.cc/uegfnqj5r/Morane_L_bombs_Russia.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Carrying bombs on racks on the Morane seems to have been typical of the Russians. the French looked at the Morane mainly as a reconnaissance and fighter aircraft - the Voisin L/ LA being its bomber partner. But as with the Voisins, taking makeshift bombs ("obus empennes" or often simple unmodified artillery shells, and even the ancestors of Molotov cocktails - see photos beyond) in the cockpit and dropping them overboard was common in 1914-1915 on the Western front and remained common all over the war with the Russians.
Here are some examples of Voisins with projectiles "on board"

(http://s23.postimg.cc/vdhtzt5qz/103_A_bord_Voisin.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s14.postimg.cc/b68ocr16p/210_d6_interieur_Voisin.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s13.postimg.cc/3pb1izdgn/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s8.postimg.cc/wgve0181h/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s29.postimg.cc/mi3b1j15z/1006957_i_062.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on December 02, 2015, 03:52:22 AM
Excellent photographs Dreamk !
The last two interior shots confirms for me  the hero status of these flyers .......
Imagine being the bomb dropper... taking off on a dismal day in 1915 literally surrounded by live bombs and glass bottles full of petrol and rag wicks.....

o_O

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 02, 2015, 05:07:34 AM
Thank you very much for the photographs Dreamk, the first certainly confirms the
Method for carrying the bombs.

Rather that way me thinks than sat with all those bottles besides you.

I am a little stuck on the kind of bombs to use for the Morane L in French a British service and your quote is interesting in that respect

the French looked at the Morane mainly as a reconnaissance and fighter aircraft - the Voisin L/ LA being its bomber partner.

This is all that the Windsock on the type lists:

(http://s14.postimg.cc/ae7har0sh/Bomb_spec_L.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Obviously for the British I already added the Coopers but would the French have used those or a type of their own?

Here is the 155mm fitted:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/155mm%20bomb_zps8qzc0vsh.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/155mm%20bomb_zps8qzc0vsh.jpg.html)

Before I read the above spec in the Windsock I tried various Obus bombs of 75mm hung vertical but they are very thin
so that would mean I had to alter all the existing hooks to use them as they are quite a distance away from the fuselage.

What I need if I add more bombs are things of a similar diameter to the bombs already fitted.

The intention is to add the Russian bombs and also include what I can for the French and British that way the aircraft can
be used for any nation the player chooses with their own default skin added.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 02, 2015, 12:00:21 PM
Hello guys, this is the L version but with the Lewis added, I named it LF for fighter:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/LF_zps9udwrb2q.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/LF_zps9udwrb2q.jpg.html)

This still needs a dedicated fixture on which to mount it, right now it is just in fresh air so to speak. :D

Looking over the pilots shoulder:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/LF%202_zpsoiavmhiq.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/LF%202_zpsoiavmhiq.jpg.html)

Looking from the observer cockpit:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/LF%203_zpsvccddrfz.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/LF%203_zpsvccddrfz.jpg.html)

I cannot tell from the photograph Dreamk posted whether it is a two seater or not, the colour image of the
Russian aircraft would indicate that one is.

So, do we need one of each fitted with the wing mounted Lewis?

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 02, 2015, 04:54:31 PM
One of each if you have the time, and evidence. Use whatever Lewis mounting you want. Maybe the one from the Nieuport 10, as it already exists. I guess it'd only have one magazine.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: ordway on December 02, 2015, 10:44:41 PM
Thank you so much! -much anticipated and needed!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 03, 2015, 09:46:26 AM
One of each if you have the time, and evidence. Use whatever Lewis mounting you want. Maybe the one from the Nieuport 10, as it already exists. I guess it'd only have one magazine.

That worked David, thank you very much for pointing me to it. 8)

Not exactly as in the Dreamk photograph but at least the gun now looks part of the aircraft. ;)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Lewis%201_zpsl0uuowji.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Lewis%201_zpsl0uuowji.jpg.html)

There is now a single seater, this reqiured a name change so this is now the MoraneSaulnier_LF and the two seater
was changed to MoraneSaulnier_LF2.  If anyone has a real designation for them please let me know:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Lewis%202_zpsowprdx1k.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Lewis%202_zpsowprdx1k.jpg.html)

It was necessary to make some addaptions to the existing window screen for this model as it is the only single
seater that does not need a hole in the glass for the gun.

The rear cover for the fuselage is now also a seperate part in this model:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Lewis%203_zpsewwrnpdk.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Lewis%203_zpsewwrnpdk.jpg.html)

All that is left to do now is the rather tedious work of loadouts, this might take a while.

I also need a skin for the tail extension on the Pfalz E3, the German skins do not have this part mapped on the skin
although it is for some of the L versions.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on December 03, 2015, 05:17:59 PM
Ill try to adapt a skin for you if you want for the Pfalz E.III
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 03, 2015, 05:51:47 PM
You're welcome. Thanks for all the work. Remember, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Edit: Before I forget. Is it possible for all the Morane two seaters to be Artillery Spotters?

cheers

David
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on December 04, 2015, 02:46:30 AM
Colleagues pardon if I ask a question that seems strange. But if I did and have new additions to Moranes / Pfalz group, with new weapons available to them? But could not find the same to update. Grateful for the great work done by all Modders.

Cheers

Carlos
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 04, 2015, 04:07:17 AM
Ill try to adapt a skin for you if you want for the Pfalz E.III

Any help is most welcome, I am sure if I look through the templates Stalker has released there is a answer to my problem
but I have so many other things to get sorted that it is last on my to do list at the moment so if someone can do it for me
I would appreciate that. ;)

You're welcome. Thanks for all the work. Remember, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

cheers

David

Perfection I never managed, everything I do leaves much to improve, hopefully others can do that. :D

Colleagues pardon if I ask a question that seems strange. But if I did and have new additions to Moranes / Pfalz group, with new weapons available to them? But could not find the same to update. Grateful for the great work done by all Modders.

Cheers

Carlos

What you see is still WIP, those models are still in the process of testing and improving, new models are still to be added, once all is satisfactory
a new update will be posted to include what is not already in the two links in the first post. ;)

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 05, 2015, 01:28:10 AM
Does anyone have plane.properties entries for these?
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 05, 2015, 08:03:21 AM
Hello guys, Stalker has very kindly sorted out the fin mapping issue for me. ;)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Rudder%20mapped_zps9d35ddgg.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Rudder%20mapped_zps9d35ddgg.jpg.html)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on December 05, 2015, 08:28:44 AM
Very nice cant wait to fly it!

Mission-bug, i sent you a link.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on December 05, 2015, 08:52:40 AM
Hi! What a beauty!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 05, 2015, 09:37:07 AM
Good work, guys.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 12, 2015, 06:21:44 AM
Hi mates!

Any news about the new plane versions?

Can't wait to fly a bit over Dunkirk escorting the LVG B.I with the Pfalz A.II....
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 12, 2015, 07:02:50 AM
Hi mates!

Any news about the new plane versions?

Can't wait to fly a bit over Dunkirk escorting the LVG B.I with the Pfalz A.II....

Hello guys, I sent the latest update to Gio about a week ago and it includes this little beauty:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Morane%20N_zpsmtfuc2m7.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Morane%20N_zpsmtfuc2m7.jpg.html)

Gio has not replied to provide any feedback on how the pack is working for him, this is nothing new as he sometimes can
take weeks between posting.

With regard to the pack release, the understanding is that until Gio has completed the collection of aircraft he intends to
add there will be no further updates, those in the first post are all for the moment.

Sadly our Master skinner has left the project, the two recent aircraft I included would not work for him and he likes to see
them up close so he can do the best with his art.

I tried many things over a few days to help sort out the issue, to no avail, even separating the two problematic aircraft from
the pack and making them single items.  In all my installs there are no issues, I even put them into my HSFX 7 as he has a older
version just to see if they worked in there and they did.  HSFX is usually problematical for most of us to add things into and for
me this was no exception although I eventually found the files I needed to make things work.
A completely new ModAct game was set up with only the basic additions that the aircraft needed, same as the HSFX was but still
for him nothing would work.

So that is the state of play at the moment, sorry for the time it has taken but Gio needed to build the Morane N after the others
were done and there is still at least one other aircraft I know he wanted to complete. Once the aircraft are made I then have to get
them a slot and prepare the cockpits, this all takes time and I can only spend small amounts of time at the machine because of a
medical condition, I have time on my hands but I am held back it is so frustrating, especially that I cannot fly either and have to
go for rides with the AI. :(

Please have patience guys, hopefully they will be released soon.

Take care of yourselves.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Malone on December 12, 2015, 08:33:21 AM
wow! looking forward to seeing more of these old classics in the IL-2 skies! :D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 12, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Thanks for all the good work guys.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on December 12, 2015, 05:47:34 PM
Beautiful stuff!

We will be patient, take all the time you need. I'm no good with templates, but i can try to help with skins if need be. I work full time though so ill be a bit slow.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on December 13, 2015, 01:31:20 AM
+1
Many thanks for all the wonderful new a/c !  ;D
Quite happy to wait for the N Type.... ;)... I think my favourite of the Moranes

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 13, 2015, 03:20:33 AM

I remember  reading in Cecil Lewis's book Saggitarius Rising RFC where they tried a Moran Bullet against a recently captured Eindecker. He reckoned the Morane was 'all over it'.
He flew a Morane L. If you let go of the stick, it flopped forward onto the petrol tank. I think the elevator was balanced from memory. It sounds like a pretty manouevrable plane.

PS: Thanks for all the mods guys. they're coming to a campaign near you.

cheers

David
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 13, 2015, 06:03:25 AM
I experience an "indestructibility" issue with these types.

Shoot them, hit them, kill the pilot, the plane goes down and even burns but does not destruct (and therefore never counts as kill). Not even when a Morane crashes into the woods it gets destroyed. I didn't manage to actually make one count as "score" so far. I was waiting for eternities to see if it just takes time but nothing happens.

I experienced WW1 planes being "hard to shoot down" before but never something like this.

playing DBW 1916.

(http://orig07.deviantart.net/afa1/f/2015/347/8/d/untitled_by_xblue75-d9jzdol.png)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on December 13, 2015, 06:05:14 AM
The "N" looks amazing. A real shame the skinner left the mod, he's a real artist, specially portraying canvas and wood.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 13, 2015, 08:08:26 AM
I experience an "indestructibility" issue with these types.

Shoot them, hit them, kill the pilot, the plane goes down and even burns but does not destruct (and therefore never counts as kill). Not even when a Morane crashes into the woods it gets destroyed. I didn't manage to actually make one count as "score" so far. I was waiting for eternities to see if it just takes time but nothing happens.

I experienced WW1 planes being "hard to shoot down" before but never something like this.

playing DBW 1916.

This is a test made minutes ago in DBW 1916:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Destruct%201_zpsthyiosjq.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Destruct%201_zpsthyiosjq.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Destruct%202_zpsra5uua0d.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Destruct%202_zpsra5uua0d.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Destruct%203_zpse891i8gb.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Destruct%203_zpse891i8gb.jpg.html)

The Nieuports made short work of their prey.

Originally the aircraft were hard to damage and the damage model failed to show, however, changes made by me to the FM
and Gio to the damage textures overcame that, if anything I think they are now too easy to shoot down even though the
real aircraft were flimsy.

The current link might not actually have these changes, I made so many it is hard to remember, could you be specific please
as to which aircraft?  All of them or only certain ones?

Gio has been in touch today and says he is still working on the next additions, as I said earlier the links will not be updated
until the remaining aircraft are added, hopefully then any issues will have been overcome.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on December 13, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
In the earlier release which I am running, I don't get bullet holes, but in my game(DBW-1916), they will burn, break, and explode if they nose dive into the ground.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 13, 2015, 10:37:59 AM
Getting the plane shot down is not the issue. It is hard but it works. The problem is that once crashed on the ground the plane does not "disappear" as "crashed" and be counted as "kill".

As you can in my picture, there is not much left that could even classify as "wreckage", yet there is (and will stay for all eternity) the .50 distance indicator of the plane. It just won't be destructed.

In this case it was a RG but I had this with other L versions before.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 13, 2015, 02:33:06 PM
Getting the plane shot down is not the issue. It is hard but it works. The problem is that once crashed on the ground the plane does not "disappear" as "crashed" and be counted as "kill".

As you can in my picture, there is not much left that could even classify as "wreckage", yet there is (and will stay for all eternity) the .50 distance indicator of the plane. It just won't be destructed.

In this case it was a RG but I had this with other L versions before.

Not something I ever noticed to be honest, more to the point how to solve it I do not have a clue. :(

Could anyone tell me please if they have this issue in other installs or is it unique to DBW 1916?

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mad026 on December 13, 2015, 10:51:58 PM
I have the same with DBW1916, but not always. As you can see on the picture, the plane goes down, you may see an explosion but then you don't get the " enemy aircraft destroyed message". Once I examined it, I saw a moving " campfire" on the ground, but nothing else, though if I hit ctrl+F2 the camera jumped on it, as an existing enemy aircraft.

But as I said it happens sometimes, but not always.

I don't know if this happens with all the aircrafts in this pack, I tested it with the G and H version.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on December 14, 2015, 03:30:21 PM
I have no problem in hitting  the various types of morane in my installation with 4:12 modact + 5.3 + CUP. Indeed often after well-placed shots they explode like grenades in the air .   :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on December 14, 2015, 06:05:18 PM
Ah, it's good to see they're not indestructible.

Edit. Oooooooh!!!!!! Morane Ps, they were in service until at least summer 1917. Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 18, 2015, 01:08:47 PM
Hello guys, what I believe to be the final three aircraft have been finished by Gio and sent to me. 8)

The slots are done and the cockpit folders set up, all that remains is then to populate each of the aircraft
cockpit folders with the necessary 3d parts from the plane folders.

Morane Saulnier I:

Morane Saulnier P early:

Morane Saulnier P late:

And the statics:

Cannot give you a ETA as yet, the festive season is upon us, and I am still limited by how long I can work on these.

We are nearly there though. :)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 18, 2015, 01:30:47 PM
Wonderful news mate!

Keep all the time you need for this great planes pack!

Have a nice Xmas time!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on December 19, 2015, 02:57:14 AM
First pack works very well for me , many thanks to all concerned   :)

Looking forward to the new pack....especially the " 1 " series      8)

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on December 19, 2015, 07:12:46 AM
Ah..a Morane Saulnier N
Looks like Gio's gone for the Mark 1 with the 110hp Le Rhone
Is this why she won't fly in your 4.10 ?

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 19, 2015, 07:41:34 AM
I have the pack added to DBW1916 and got all working fine....usually the memory error isn't due a plane classfiles error but mainly due a conflict in your installation....i have rebuilded a lot of times my IL2 because I got such memory error....this is why I keep multiple installation....

Try them in a vanilla installation....
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 19, 2015, 08:12:30 AM
Hello guys, Stalker's problems seem to have begun with the addition of the Morane N and PfalzE3 so I would not expect anyone using the current links to have any issues.

The updated pack you do not have yet works without any issue in mine and Gio's installations, for me that includes:

DBW 1.71.
DBW 1916.
TD 4.12 with SAS ModAct 5.30.

I also seperated the two aircraft he says are causing problems and tried them even in a HSFX 7, no other mods except what was needed for the Moranes to function.

Also tried was a vanilla 4.12 I have a copy of that only had the SAS ModAct 5.30, to that was added the Moranes and only the added files needed to make them work.

It was important to remove all previous versions and their entries and add everything as a new pack because changes had been made.

There was nothing new in the way the Morane N and Pfaltz E3 were constructed, they used renamed classes that had been used on other aircraft.

The FM files were all in the pack, nothing pointed to anywhere else in any install so did not need any other aircraft or pack.

As Walter points out the memory error is a messed up install nothing to do with the pack as far as I am aware.

Without having Stalker's install on my PC there is nothing else I could possibly do to make the fucking things work.

As is always said, please post a log, preferably the full one in a zip file and with luck a solution might appear.

Anyway, I have sent a link for the last pack Stalker and Gio recieved to Istvan, hopefully if there is something wrong with a 4.10 installation he is the best
to find it as he was responsible for the DBW 1916 pack that we all use.

My reasoning there is that it is possible my DBW 1916 might have missed a update.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 19, 2015, 02:04:48 PM
Hello guys, just a quick update. ;)

The Marane Saulnier I is done as it only really needed a gun change from the N version as far as I can tell.

The P series early now has the pilot and gunner stations operable:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Update%20P%20series_zpsdk3mvorv.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Update%20P%20series_zpsdk3mvorv.jpg.html)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Update%20P%20series%202_zps6pzhz3b5.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Update%20P%20series%202_zps6pzhz3b5.jpg.html)

Again as far as I can see the late series visually only has the addition of the over wing gun and a different spinner so that should be ready
tomorrow hopefully and the results posted to Gio for a final evaluation.

Istvan has tried the pack in his DBW 1916 and reports all is well so with a bit of luck you guys might soon have them to test yourselves. 8)

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 20, 2015, 03:12:47 AM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on December 20, 2015, 04:07:55 AM
I have a deep respect for the work done by all modders here, but according to historical sources only 4 of the MS Type N - modified with Le Rhône engines of 110 hp - were delivered to the Royal Flying Corps in July 1916, giving rise to the type MS type I, where even this model was already becoming obsolete with the introduction of Spad S VII in August 1916. The MS type N only would be a great addition to family. Yet I am grateful the best efforts made by all who want to offer growing immersion in the events portrayed here. No criticism, just a comment.

Cheers

Carlos
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on December 20, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
1) Few Morane Saulnier type N served in French escadrilles, mostly before 1916.

2) The first British Morane N were delivered to 3rd Squadron on September 18th, 1915 and a total of 24 planes were delivered in the following months, the last batch arriving in the third week of June 1916. They equipped No 60 and No 24 squadrons and saw their most intensive service in the summer of 1916. The type I, a type N equipped with an Alkan synchronizing gear and an 110Hp engine, began to be delivered to the British in July 1916 and was mainly used by No 60 squadron. they were withdrawn from the front in October 1916 - a very short operational lifespan. Only a few type I became operational in French service, apparently only for testing.
3) The Russian Type I (also called Type V) were delivered in October 1916 and arrived at the front when snow was already covering the ground and therefore equipped with skis.
No Morane N served with the Russian Air service N - Some Russian sources speak of both types N and I, but the IRAS operational data have been checked and show only type I with 110hp engine - the explanation may be the single type N completed by Duks company in a failed attempt to begin license production of the type in Russia - and this single aircraft was spinnerless.
A total of 12 Morane I served with the Russian air service.
No Morane N or I seems to have been used by the Soviets or the Whites, as this type was more that obsolete by end 1917, and was not fit for training or reconnaissance as were other obsolete types (the Russian Morane L kept being used till the mid 1920s in such roles).
The Russian Ace Ivan Smirnoff flew sucessfully a  Morane type I and won 2 victories in on this type, in the summer of 1917, against an Albatros type C and another two-seater (most of his victories were aboard a  Spad 7).

(As a general rule Russian sources must always be checked against wartime operational records and tables, that surprisingly are often available, and photographic evidence, as they have a marked tendency to freely "fill gaps of knowledge", a behavior that was also prevalent in the British sources of the 1960s, but situation improved there - in Russia,... it got worse. You have today a blossoming of so called "specialized publications" with colored graphics - a notable exception being Maslov, who has only B&W drawings but tries to stick to first hand historical sources, at the opposite of Kondratiev, Sheps and others)

As a curiosity, Smirnoff was never shot down in the course of ww1 or the RCW (had only one inconclusive fight in the RCW as he already left Russia in December 1917), but was shot down by... the Japanese in March 1942 while piloting a Dutch DC-3 evacuation civilians from the Nederlandd Indies to Australia. He survived to serve for the rest of WW2 as a ...US Air Force transport pilot, returning to serve with KLM afterwar. Quite a life isn't it?!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on December 21, 2015, 03:53:06 AM
What will happen with the "N" for DBW? With no skinner will it be completed?
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 21, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
What will happen with the "N" for DBW? With no skinner will it be completed?

The N and all the other aircraft that we have shown in the thread are now all in slots and have been sent to Gio for a final test. ;)

When the thread is to be updated so you can add them to your installs is now up to him. 8)

The last three aircraft will be released with the textures that Gio made for them, someone will hopefully produce more skins once

The two P models only have machine gun armament at the moment as I cannot find any photographs to indicate they carried bombs, not
even a Russian aircraft can be found and they seem to have added bombs to most of the Moranes. :o

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Dreamk on December 21, 2015, 11:40:36 AM
The Morane P comported 2 variants - the MoS21, in 1916, with a 110Hp Le-Rhone 9J engine and the MoS26, in 1917, with the improved 120Hp Le Rhône 9JB. Most were used by the French.
The Mos21 had a large casserole spinner and the cowling of the N
The Mos26 had a full circular cowling and no spinner.

The British RFC also purchased no less than 142 MoS21, often replacing the original 110Hp engine by a 80Hp Le Rhone 9C due to a crisis in the delay of spares for the Rhone 110Hp (the French remaining deaf to the pleadings of the British war office - but to tell the truth, they themselves had serious problems with the production of the Le Rhone 9J and this led among other to the introduction of the Nieuport Ni21, here too with a 80Hp engine instead of the 110Hp engine of the Ni-17). This version was designated a posteriori MoS24 and had a small spinner. (MoS24 and not MoS23 as sometimes written - the MoS23 was an experimental 110Hp design, produced at the request of the RFC with only 2 machines being produced) By the beginning of 1917 all the Mos24 had been withdrawn form service, the supply of 110Hp Le Rhone having been renewed.

Only 10 machines served with the Russians, who called them Morane IV - they flew in the ranks of Kazakov's 19th squadron.
All their users used them exclusively as fighters. They appear to have been equipped with small spinners.
There is no certitude about the kind of engine they were equipped with (there was a chronic penury of Le Rhone engines in Russia).

BTW Not only the Russians, but also the British used the Morane L and LA also to drop bombs, for instance in an attack on Zeppelin sheds in Brussels in 1916 by 2 LA, and in a successful an air to air bombing against Zeppelin LZ37 on June 7, 1915.)

After ww1 Japan and Brazil used this plane.

Mos21 - the huge spinner was often discarded in service
(http://s29.postimg.cc/nuspx6m9j/Morane_P_Mo_S21.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Mos24
(http://s24.postimg.cc/4z2dr5739/Morane_Mo_S23_80hp_hybrid_Parasol.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s18.postimg.cc/9wpk5mrg9/morane_saulnier_p_Mos26.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 23, 2015, 11:13:50 AM
Hello guys, Gio is currently busy with real life issues and the festive season so has not had the chance yet to test the pack I sent to him but he has asked me to post that link into the thread. ;)

These packs contain all of the aircraft previewed in this thread so far up to and including the I and P early and late.

This is for use in DBW 1916 and DBW 1.71 it includes statics in the folder and their entries.

My previous links have been removed because the latest update has now been posted and supersedes any other links :

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49180.msg542849.html#msg542849

Please delete all previous versions of the pack and the entries for them as much has changed since the first link was posted, consider these a completely new install.

When Gio is able to add these links to the first post they will be removed.

There will I am sure be numerous fixes still needed for these aircraft but at least you now have the opportunity to test them and report back.

Wishing you all a very happy Christmas and New Year, Pete. 8)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on December 23, 2015, 11:16:26 AM
I started to work on the missing textures:

Type N skin

(http://i.imgur.com/YpYPdSq.jpg)

Cockpit parts wip

(http://i.imgur.com/ciZetiR.jpg)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 23, 2015, 11:39:11 AM
Outstanding work as always Istvan, looking forward to you releasing them. 8)

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on December 23, 2015, 01:08:18 PM
Excellent work!! Can't wait to see those Imperial Russian skins for the N!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Fresco23 on December 23, 2015, 07:13:49 PM
Thanks Gio, Mission_bug, VP, and all others!!! So sorry to hear that you are leaving the project stalker. I enjoy your work.

Merry Christmas guys! Take care!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 24, 2015, 08:25:16 PM
This pack was never made or intended for any version of HSFX.

I seperated the two aircraft you said were a problem and tried them in the only version of HSFX I have ever used HSFX-0.7 to see if that could cure the issue you were having with your particular version of HSFX, it took me nearly three days of hard work to get them going in that install and you were told what I did and sent any files that made that happen.

I do not mod HSFX, this site does not mod HSFX, I tried to do it for you, something I would not even have attempted for anyone else.

I say again, this pack was only ever intended for DBW 1916 and DBW 1.71, if it worked in anything else it was a bonus.

I do not have your version of HSFX, I never had and have no knowledge at all of what it takes to actually mod HSFX.

From what I read there is a very fine limit to just how many classfiles any HSFX install can have added on top of what the authors release, that is why I tested individual aircraft for you.

I am not and probably never will be a coder, I tinker at the very lowest level and usually manage to at least get things working.

Anyway, this is my last project, if there are any issues with it someone else can sort them out.

Take care

Pete.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on December 25, 2015, 04:04:42 AM
I updated the mod with new mat files and textures (all cockpits and some default skins) and removed ~250Mb unused files. There are also a few bmp skins for the Morane Type N and a Roland Garros pilot skin:

http://ulozto.net/xpHnVM1f/aircraft-moranesaulnier-h-and-l-model-family-7z

Thanks to everyone involved in making this pack, I really like it. :)

Cheers

Type L cockpit:

(http://i.imgur.com/CQMUZO9.jpg)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 25, 2015, 09:15:07 AM
A tought about plane behaviour harmonization....this is a general post , valid for all early WWI planes and not only for this package....

I was reading about the early stages of the war and I discovered some intresting facts:

- In early stages of flying discipline aerobatics was thought as dangerous
- Many fodders were caught of surprise and make mainly horizontal plain evasive manouvers

So I start to think that those pilots made act their crate more as a bomber than a fighter....

....what about look at the behaviour type of the early WWI planes to check their behaviour and maybe set them as:

TypeBomber for unarmed recce planes
TypeScout for armed recce planes
TypeTNBFighter for dedicated fighters

....this should be more like the real behaviour of that age....

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Monty27 on December 25, 2015, 04:18:38 PM
Excellent thoughts Walter, I totally agree.  8)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 26, 2015, 09:19:54 AM
Thank you very much for the update Istvan, greatly appreciated, I will download and install soon. 8)

Hello Walter, I agree with your sentiments, trouble is with most of the aircraft in the pack they do not readily fall into any particular catagory.

What the French might consider a scout, the Russians might use as a fighter and bomber, The English equally their own designations.

The pack I think uses four in the mother class, TypeFighter, TypeBomber, TypeScout and TypeSturmovik, probably not correct in most cases but
as they will almost certainly be used in many guises what do you do?

Game behaviour has also to be accounted for, in some designations the aircraft will not deviate from a course if attacked, I would for sure.

My work on the pack is done other than any bugs I am able to replicate and fix if someone points them out.

Anyone who would like the classes and FM files for these and anything else I have done to make improvements my ability does not allow are welcome to them, please send send me a PM as they will not be posted here in a thread but in the school. ;)

Take care guys.

Hope you all have a very happy Christmas and New year, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: asheshouse on December 26, 2015, 11:37:00 AM
Great looking aircraft. Thanks for this.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 28, 2015, 06:59:08 AM
There is still that weird issue with planes being indestructible.

(http://orig14.deviantart.net/feb6/f/2015/362/6/b/untitled_by_xblue75-d9lrkm6.png)

Five MS LF and LF2 in this case. All of them crashing from low altitude into the woods, exploding in a big ball of fire but none of them gets actually destructed. You can still see the distance markers.
The only time I experienced them getting destroyed is when they crash from really high up. Not even bveing on fire seems to destruct thema fter they explode.

I run an unmodified DBW16.

This "feature" makes this series almost unusable for campaigns because you never get the victory account.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 28, 2015, 09:30:35 AM
Great looking aircraft. Thanks for this.

Glad you like them asheshouse, Gio's work is truly outstanding as is that of the skinners who work on these aircraft. 8)

Hello vampire_pilot, as I mentioned before I do not know how to fix that issue, if someone can tell me why it happens then I will put it right if I am able.

It could be a FM issue or a java one, possibly both, but I do not know where to look or what to alter.

The new textures Istvan uploaded are truly outstanding, the new pilot skin for the Morane N is particularily nice, thank you very much Isvan, greatly appreciated.

The previous instructions I posted in this page have been removed as they are now no longer necessary as the latest link to the pack is here
and supersedes all other links posted:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49180.msg542849.html#msg542849

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Storebror on December 29, 2015, 01:09:59 AM
Five MS LF and LF2 in this case.
(...)
I run an unmodified DBW16.
I'm wondering how much this can be true.
The reason is that the LF and LF2, as well as the I, the L_Pearly, the L_Plate and the L_RG use the "MGunLewisMkI" as primary weapon and this weapon is not part of standard DBW 1916 and it's not part of this pack either, hence with unmodified DBW 1916 you are not able to use either of these planes, unless I'm missing something here.

The Istvan pack contains java classes that differ in numbers and content from the Pete pack, both packs contain classes that are missing in the other one and both contain changes to existing classes that are missing in the other one.

Best regards - Mike
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 29, 2015, 01:26:46 AM
I only added the planes, I didn't add any object- or weapons pack or effect packs.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Storebror on December 29, 2015, 01:34:50 AM
So how come you can fly the LF and LF2 when you don't even have their primary weapon in your game?

Best regards - Mike
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 29, 2015, 01:45:21 AM
? beats me.
Maybe it came sneaking in with another plane? I have a few additional planes added that came out after the last official update.

I d/led the packs from the first post in the DBW1916 thread.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Storebror on December 29, 2015, 01:52:52 AM
I have a few additional planes added that came out after the last official update.
Ah... so "unmodified" means "modified"?

I d/led the packs from the first post in the DBW1916 thread.
?????

The only thing I can guess at the moment is that you need to have some kind of "DBW Update" (see http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,26088.0.html) installed but if so, I'm wondering how this can be done "correctly" given that the title of the update says it's version "3.4", the installation instructions last until "patch 3" and the lastest patches in the starting post are "3b" and "4".
Confusion all over the place...

Best regards - Mike
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 29, 2015, 02:00:02 AM
Exactly, I have all those updates, including 3b and 4. Pack v3, up to patch 4. means v 3.4 to me.

Also, unmodified means, the crash bug is also present when I have other planes slashed out. It seems native to the affected MS planes.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Storebror on December 29, 2015, 02:19:01 AM
Well then... how about a log.lst? ;)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on December 29, 2015, 02:55:42 AM
I'm wondering how this can be done "correctly" given that the title of the update says it's version "3.4", the installation instructions last until "patch 3" and the lastest patches in the starting post are "3b" and "4".
Confusion all over the place...

You got 5 files, you install them in that order.
Installing consists of extracting the files into you game folder as usual.
In the case of patch 2 & 3 you have extra install instructions.
No confusion.
Nobody complained so far.

Why this insulting tone??
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 29, 2015, 03:00:17 AM
the complete file was too long so I cut where I start loading the mission.

three Fokkers vs. six MS LF, all MS crash none of them destructs.

Code: [Select]
....[9:47:39] Loading mission Campaign/DE/1915_EagleOfLille/Fokker-09b.mis...[9:47:40] Load bridges[9:47:40] Load static objects[9:47:42] sFMDir = fokkere3[9:47:42] s1 = flightmodels/oberursel.emd[9:47:42] s = FlightModels/Oberursel:FokkerE3.emd[9:47:42] m_lastFMFile = u2scout2_1b2_fm[9:47:42] getting fm file fokkere3[9:47:42] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/Fokker_EIII/Standard s1=3do/plane/FokkerE3(Multi1)/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/0[9:47:42] java.io.FileNotFoundException[9:47:42] at com.maddox.rts.SFSInputStream.<init>(SFSInputStream.java:65)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.engine.BMPLoader.bmp8PalTo4TGA4(BMPLoader.java:375)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.engine.BmpUtils.bmp8PalTo4TGA4(BmpUtils.java:75)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.net.NetUser.tryPrepareSkin(NetUser.java:1486)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Mission.prepareSkinInWing(Mission.java:1122)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Mission.prepareSkinInWing(Mission.java:1105)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Mission.loadWings(Mission.java:1091)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Mission._load(Mission.java:455)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Mission.access$000(Mission.java:129)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Mission$BackgroundLoader.run(Mission.java:405)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.rts.BackgroundTask.doRun(BackgroundTask.java:155)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:108)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[9:47:42] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)[9:47:42] INTERNAL ERROR: Can't open file 'PaintSchemes/Skins/Fokker_EIII/Standard'[9:47:42] INTERNAL ERROR: Bitmap 'PaintSchemes/Skins/Fokker_EIII/Standard' size: 0 != 512 | 1024[9:47:42] INTERNAL ERROR: Can't open file 'PaintSchemes/Pilots/Standard'[9:47:42] 1>mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:47:42] 1>mp_dotrange FOE DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:47:42] 1>timeout 60000 file il2stab.rcu[9:47:42] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/Fokker_EIII/Boelcke.bmp s1=3do/plane/FokkerE3(Multi1)/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/8832729841500163728[9:47:42] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/Fokker_EIII/Immelmann.bmp s1=3do/plane/FokkerE3(Multi1)/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/8467516797902273534[9:47:47] Mission: Campaign/DE/1915_EagleOfLille/Fokker-09b.mis is Playing[9:47:47] INTERNAL ERROR: Can't open file 'PaintSchemes/Pilots/Standard'[9:48:11] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:48:42] 1>mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:48:42] 1>mp_dotrange FOE DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:48:42] 1>timeout 60000 file il2stab.rcu[9:49:04] WARNING: Clear VBuf 130979[9:49:04] WARNING: Clear IBuf 294015[9:49:33] sFMDir = moranesaulnier_l_fm[9:49:33] s1 = flightmodels/m-11_ml.emd[9:49:33] s = FlightModels/M-11_ML:MoraneSaulnier_L_FM.emd[9:49:33] m_lastFMFile = fokkere3[9:49:33] getting fm file moranesaulnier_l_fm[9:49:33] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/MoraneSaulnier_LF/MS37_27_1915.bmp s1=3do/plane/MoraneSaulnier_LF/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/3580693243516931944[9:49:33] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/MoraneSaulnier_LF/MS37_27_1915.bmp s1=3do/plane/MoraneSaulnier_LF/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/3580693243516931944[9:49:33] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/MoraneSaulnier_LF/MS37_27_1915.bmp s1=3do/plane/MoraneSaulnier_LF/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/3580693243516931944[9:49:33] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/MoraneSaulnier_LF/MS37_27_1915.bmp s1=3do/plane/MoraneSaulnier_LF/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/3580693243516931944[9:49:33] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/MoraneSaulnier_LF/MS37_27_1915.bmp s1=3do/plane/MoraneSaulnier_LF/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/3580693243516931944[9:49:33] BMPLoader bmp8PalTo4TGA4 s=PaintSchemes/Skins/MoraneSaulnier_LF/MS37_27_1915.bmp s1=3do/plane/MoraneSaulnier_LF/summer s2=PaintSchemes/Cache/3580693243516931944[9:49:34] Time overflow (6001): speed 0.13077594[9:49:42] 1>mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:49:42] 1>mp_dotrange FOE DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:49:42] 1>timeout 60000 file il2stab.rcu[9:50:03] Time overflow (10002): speed 0.88757396[9:50:42] 1>mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:50:42] 1>mp_dotrange FOE DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:50:42] 1>timeout 60000 file il2stab.rcu[9:51:24] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:51:24] INTERNAL ERROR: HierMesh: Can't find chunk 'Gore1_D0'[9:51:24] java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.MoraneSaulnier_LF.doWoundPilot(MoraneSaulnier_LF.java:33)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.doSetPilotState(AircraftState.java:2255)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2058)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2049)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.hitPilot(AircraftState.java:2084)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.Aircraft.msgEndAction(Aircraft.java:687)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.MsgEndAction.invokeListener(MsgEndAction.java:59)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1158)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:252)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[9:51:24] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)[9:51:34] INTERNAL ERROR: HierMesh: Can't find chunk 'Gore1_D0'[9:51:34] java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.MoraneSaulnier_LF.doWoundPilot(MoraneSaulnier_LF.java:33)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.doSetPilotState(AircraftState.java:2255)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2058)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2049)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.hitPilot(AircraftState.java:2084)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.Aircraft.msgEndAction(Aircraft.java:687)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.MsgEndAction.invokeListener(MsgEndAction.java:59)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1158)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:252)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[9:51:34] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)[9:51:34] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:51:38] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:51:39] INTERNAL ERROR: HierMesh: Can't find chunk 'Gore1_D0'[9:51:39] java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.MoraneSaulnier_LF.doWoundPilot(MoraneSaulnier_LF.java:33)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.doSetPilotState(AircraftState.java:2255)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2058)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2049)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.hitPilot(AircraftState.java:2084)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.Aircraft.msgEndAction(Aircraft.java:687)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.MsgEndAction.invokeListener(MsgEndAction.java:59)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1158)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:252)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[9:51:39] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)[9:51:42] 1>mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:51:42] 1>mp_dotrange FOE DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:51:42] 1>timeout 60000 file il2stab.rcu[9:51:55] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:51:55] INTERNAL ERROR: HierMesh: Can't find chunk 'Gore1_D0'[9:51:55] java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.MoraneSaulnier_LF.doWoundPilot(MoraneSaulnier_LF.java:33)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.doSetPilotState(AircraftState.java:2255)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2058)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2049)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.hitPilot(AircraftState.java:2084)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.Aircraft.msgEndAction(Aircraft.java:687)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.MsgEndAction.invokeListener(MsgEndAction.java:59)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1158)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:252)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[9:51:55] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)[9:51:57] INTERNAL ERROR: HierMesh: Can't find chunk 'Gore1_D0'[9:51:57] java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.MoraneSaulnier_LF.doWoundPilot(MoraneSaulnier_LF.java:33)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.doSetPilotState(AircraftState.java:2255)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2058)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2049)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.hitPilot(AircraftState.java:2084)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.Aircraft.msgEndAction(Aircraft.java:687)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.MsgEndAction.invokeListener(MsgEndAction.java:59)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1158)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:252)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[9:51:57] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)[9:52:10] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:52:15] INTERNAL ERROR: Str2FloatClamp() - Clamped 3 -> 2 (delta = -1) to Range 0..2[9:52:19] -------------------------------- MISSION FAILED ---------------------[9:52:26] WARNING: ObjectVACache_Clear()[9:52:26] WARNING: * Buf0 : Obj: 5215,  Vert 122259,  Ind 237903[9:52:26] WARNING: * Buf1 : Obj: 405,  Vert 70740,  Ind 214749[9:52:26] WARNING: * Buf2 : Obj: 74,  Vert 92514,  Ind 161754[9:52:26] Load bridges[9:52:26] Load static objects[9:52:42] 1>mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:52:42] Friendly Dot Ranges:[9:52:42]   DOT 15.0 km[9:52:42]   COLOR 10.0 km[9:52:42]   TYPE 6.0 km[9:52:42]   NAME 0.0050 km[9:52:42]   ID 0.0050 km[9:52:42]   RANGE 10.0 km[9:52:42] 1>mp_dotrange FOE DOT 15.000 COLOR 10.000 RANGE 10.000 TYPE 6.000 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005[9:52:42] Foe Dot Ranges:[9:52:42]   DOT 15.0 km[9:52:42]   COLOR 10.0 km[9:52:42]   TYPE 6.0 km[9:52:42]   NAME 0.0050 km[9:52:42]   ID 0.0050 km[9:52:42]   RANGE 10.0 km[9:52:42] 1>timeout 60000 file il2stab.rcu[29.12.2015 9:53:01] -------------- END log session -------------
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on December 29, 2015, 03:06:51 AM
Dear VPmedia, did the update of Moranes for his "reduced" version of space and started to have crash at 60% load. I noticed that the lack of inclusion Air.Ini lines but also in estcionários Morane Saulnier Type I. He was removed from the pack? I run 4.12.2 with 5.3 modact .Thanks

Cheers

Carlos
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 29, 2015, 03:07:18 AM
I'm wondering how this can be done "correctly" given that the title of the update says it's version "3.4", the installation instructions last until "patch 3" and the lastest patches in the starting post are "3b" and "4".
Confusion all over the place...

You got 5 files, you install them in that order.
Installing consists of extracting the files into you game folder as usual.
In the case of patch 2 & 3 you have extra install instructions.
No confusion.
Nobody complained so far.

Why this insulting tone??

Sorry Mike , my greatest apologies but I had to disagree and support vpmedia....

Version 3.4 mean pack v3 updated with patch 4....

....3b is a further development of initial patch 3....

And reading the installing isntruction don't give me (even if not english native speaker) no doubt about procedure....
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 29, 2015, 03:10:43 AM
About installing the last update note that you have to:

2) delete indicated folders from 3do subfolders named 'plane' and 'cockpits';

Great looking aircraft. Thanks for this.
Glad you like them asheshouse, Gio's work is truly outstanding as is that of the skinners who work on these aircraft. 8)
Hello vampire_pilot, as I mentioned before I do not know how to fix that issue, if someone can tell me why it happens then I will put it right if I am able.
..

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Spider16 on December 29, 2015, 03:14:28 AM
All right, thanks
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 29, 2015, 03:29:59 AM

There is nothing wrong with the mission or with skins or failing missions.
The mission loads and runs perfectly (I just crashed myself at the end, hence the Mission failed line.) Thanks for trying to help though.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 29, 2015, 03:40:53 AM
Yes!

You're right!

My misunderstanding!

Sorry!

Post deleted!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 29, 2015, 03:43:50 AM
But about your issue of not destoryed planes and not game 'confirmed' downing....

....what about some wrong or too little collision boxes?
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on December 29, 2015, 03:44:57 AM
Dear VPmedia, did the update of Moranes for his "reduced" version of space and started to have crash at 60% load. I noticed that the lack of inclusion Air.Ini lines but also in estcionários Morane Saulnier Type I. He was removed from the pack? I run 4.12.2 with 5.3 modact .Thanks

Cheers

Carlos

I made a mistake of not checking with Pete before uploading, but I'm fixing it right now.
I already updated the cockpits for the 3 new planes and I'm in process of finishing the default skins. I never modify class or msh files, my updates are always tga and mat files.
All the new planes (around 30) will be released soon in a DBW 1916 v4 version (for 4.10).

Type I

(http://i.imgur.com/pRXGYev.jpg)

Type L Plate

(http://i.imgur.com/tloEvUQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/QxfRzIR.jpg)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 29, 2015, 03:47:13 AM
Quote
All the new planes (around 30) will be released soon in a DBW 1916 v4 version (for 4.10).

Yum Yum!!!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on December 29, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
Quote
All the new planes (around 30) will be released soon in a DBW 1916 v4 version (for 4.10).

Yum Yum!!!
YUM!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 29, 2015, 05:38:26 AM
Hello guys, this is the latest update I posted for the complete set of aircraft:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49180.msg542849.html#msg542849

Please ignore the first page link as that is out of date as is the one below posted by Istvan. ;)

Gio asked me to post my latest additions as he was busy with other things so I was only able to post where I did, sorry if it is confusing but until everything is finalised please just add from those links.

The link Istvan gave comes after that but please only use the 3do folder as I suggest because that was a earlier version sent to Istvan for testing purposes before the I and P models were added.

The new skins look outstanding as always Istvan, looking forward to using them. 8)

These aircraft use the Dreamk weapons packs so they must be installed, DBW 1916 uses a version of that which Istvan put together, if you use other installs then use the pack in Dreamks link.

When everything is complete hopefully we will be able to remove all links in the thread and move the most up to date into the first page.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on December 29, 2015, 07:11:42 AM
Hi Pete! I finished updating the latest planes. Thanks for everything, very nice pack!

http://ulozto.net/xuJ64vs9/aircraft-moranesaulnier-h-and-l-model-family-7z

Basic psd template for Type L Pearly/Plate & Type N + skins for Type N & I:

http://ulozto.net/xQLsDwRs/moranesaulnier-skins-templates-7z
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 29, 2015, 09:01:48 AM
Thank you very much for the latest update Istvan, greatly appreciated. 8)

We will now use that link as the most up to date for the pack so Gio or one of the admins can now add that in the first post.

For those using the pack posted in the link above for 4.12 with ModAct 5.30 these are the stationary files so if you are using my stationary plane mod for that install these class files can be removed and the entries for staionaries in the readme ignored, use those in the stationary mod.

Code: [Select]
0F2C78D8FCB213D401DA3BFA8A8149EA2AE56594A303115C2E253C687C09D4703C7071CC13AF59DE5E3D8032691F2008353B5C28A35BB6DA529ACF666F435A422248A6C81AEF456616091384B099D97AA70504681E8B211CAEA14D7AAA883C1ECF514A7C30F64068D03852C86B8D10B8DB49C7D675AD44C8E2688F4C80D3190EFBEE16789AB6F8E2FEA16C22DB9E81ECFF8C80A81E7B88B0
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,37950.msg541666.html#msg541666

If you want to use the pack as it comes and do not use my stationary mod then everything can be added as in the download. ;)

Thank you very much to all those involved in this pack, your help and guidance is greatly appreciated.

If a cure is found for the existing problems they will be added later.

Take care guys.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Storebror on December 29, 2015, 10:29:04 AM
Why this insulting tone??
Sorry Istvan, didn't want to sound rude, I rather tried to express my confusion when I tried to install this mod and suddenly figured that I don't have sufficient knowledge how to get this working properly.
Imagine how confusing all of this must be to new users...

Now that the new pack is there, the required installation of your (fabulous I must say) DBW patch pack has been made clear and now that the instructions are clear, everything works fine and dandy for me too and I get precisely to the point mentioned by vampire when crashing planes don't get killed.
I can also confirm his log entries and the error that causes the LFs to become indestructable:
Code: [Select]
[17:13:58] java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.MoraneSaulnier_LF2.doWoundPilot(MoraneSaulnier_LF2.java:33)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.doSetPilotState(AircraftState.java:2255)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2058)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.setPilotState(AircraftState.java:2049)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.fm.AircraftState.hitPilot(AircraftState.java:2084)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.objects.air.Aircraft.msgEndAction(Aircraft.java:687)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.MsgEndAction.invokeListener(MsgEndAction.java:59)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1158)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:252)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)[17:13:58] at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)
One part of the problem, at least in case of the LF2, is the hier.him and the meshes.
For each turret the internal java code logic requires the plane to have a regarding "Turret<x>A_D0" and a "Turret<x>B_D0" section in hier.him (with "x" being the 1-based index of the turret).
The LF2 only has "Turret1A_D0" but no "Turret1B_D0", so from IL2's internal logic it doesn't have any turret at all, therefore calling
Code: [Select]
this.FM.turret[0].setHealth(f);has to fail since "turret" is an empty array, even index "0" doesn't exist.

Best regards - Mike
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: vpmedia on December 29, 2015, 11:43:49 AM
Thanks for the advice. I'm really doing this pack without any java knowledge which makes things difficult sometimes but Pete (and Kant) has been a big help in this last two years. The current install format of DBW-1916 is indeed not ideal but I plan to make it easier, it will be one (split) 7z extraction and the whole thing is done.

Cheers
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 29, 2015, 12:26:00 PM
Hello Mike, glad the confusion is now sorted out for you and hopefully everyone else. ;)

Thank you very much for pointing out where the error was I will see if using the entries from one of the other similar aircraft can rectify the issue. 8)

I have not actually touched the original aircraft hier files so it must have been there all along.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 30, 2015, 02:05:17 AM
Hello guys, I looked through each hier of the pack and all these have the entry Mike mentions:

Code: [Select]
GG2HILLFLF2NRGA1A2E1E3
This is that entry:

[Turret1A_D0]
Mesh Turret1A_D0_00
Parent cf_D0
Hidden
Separable
Attaching 0 1 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0 0.0031 0.25402 0.32515

I removed it from each hier in the plane folder and started a QMB mission to see what happened, the result was mixed.

The angle at which the aircraft hits the ground seems to have some effect, some aircraft were completely destroyed and the text would dissapear, but others appeared to continue to burn so in effect remained as vampire_pilot mentions.

The two seat aircraft that do not have a turret essentially have two pilots cockpits in the java with no mention of Turret1A_D0 or 1B in that class file or any other for the type, although there is something about murder pilot and turret but that is most likely how all aircraft are to designate that the crew are in a position within the aircraft.

Maybe as Walter mentioned earlier the collision box might have a effect although the aircraft do break up, some though have parts that continue to burn through the mission.

Strange behaviour indeed but what is the cure.

Hopefully Mike will be able to advise further on this.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~Storebror on December 30, 2015, 05:11:46 AM
I can take a look at this next year, right now I don't feel much like taking more tasks on my desk.
Just to clarify the internal structure from IL-2's point of view:
Turrets are "created" when the aircraft mesh is getting loaded.
The game just looks for "Turret<x>A_D0" and "Turret<x>B_D0" inside the hier.him, with "x" going from 1 to 9.
As soon as these two are found, a Turret is created, and as soon as these two are not found, the game stops searching.
So if for instance your hier.him has "Turret1A_D0", "Turret1B_D0", "Turret2A_D0" and "Turret2B_D0", then this makes two turrets.
If in contrast it has "Turret1A_D0", "Turret1B_D0", "Turret2A_D0" and "Turret2C_D0", then this makes one turret.
And if it has "Turret1A_D0", "Turret1C_D0", "Turret2A_D0" and "Turret2B_D0", then this makes no turrets at all.

The number of pilots solely depends on the defined number of pilots in the fmd file, the hier.him has to have their regarding Pilot meshes, otherwise loading the plane fails.

The problem of these planes is that when they crash, the game tries to damage the turrets, then kill the pilots (and thereby the gunner) and finally destroy the aircraft.
Since at the first step the code already bails out with an exception, step 2 (kill pilots) and 3 (destroy aircraft) never gets reached, that's why the planes keep floating.
When you hit the ground very steep, the order might change because a vital part of the plane (like the tank) might get damaged to a degree where the game destroys the aircraft automatically, already before the turret or the pilot(s) get hurt.
They will get hurt later (and throw the same error), but then the plane is already gone.

Best regards - Mike
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 30, 2015, 09:16:45 AM
Hello Mike, thank you very much for explaining exactly what happens, greatly appreciated. 8)

Ok, so using what you say I added the entries you say to use for no turret to the hier
of three of the offending aircraft:

Code: [Select]
[Turret1A_D0]Mesh Turret1A_D0Parent cf_D0HiddenSeparableAttaching 0 1 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0 0.0031 0.25402 0.32515[Turret1B_D0]Mesh Turret1A_D0Parent cf_D0HiddenSeparableAttaching 0 1 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0 0.0031 0.25402 0.32515[Turret2A_D0]Mesh Turret2A_D0Parent cf_D0HiddenSeparableAttaching 0 1 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0 0.0031 0.25402 0.32515[Turret2B_D0]Mesh Turret2A_D0Parent cf_D0HiddenSeparableAttaching 0 1 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0 0.0031 0.25402 0.32515

In this instance L, LF and LF2.

Also added to the plane folder were four meshes named according to the entries added to the hier:

Code: [Select]
Turret1A_D0Turret1B_D0Turret2A_D0Turret2B_D0
A number of missions were flown using AI, my aircraft the pursuer in Nieuports and kills were confirmed:

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/Mission_bug/Album%202/Kill%20confirmed_zps6mxya49d.jpg) (http://s293.photobucket.com/user/Mission_bug/media/Album%202/Kill%20confirmed_zps6mxya49d.jpg.html)

The previous issue of parts burning and bouncing was gone, only a fire where the destroyed aircraft crashed.

Previously you could scroll through what was the flight and still have your view take you to where the offending burning
was, now no more, also gone was the text that remained showing the aircraft type.

So, effectively what you imply in the reply is that even though the aircraft might not have a turret you still need to
add those entries if there are two crew, is that correct?

Just for completness sake I removed the meshes and just left the entries but that loaded my aircraft with a disabled engine
so they were returned.

Can we now conclude the issue reported by vampire_pilot has now been overcome or was my testing just lucky in those instances?

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 30, 2015, 09:45:32 AM
You can send the modified flies to vampire pilot and let him reply for successful debugging....
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 31, 2015, 06:03:42 AM
You can send the modified flies to vampire pilot and let him reply for successful debugging....

Hello Walter, the information was posted above so anyone who wished to experiment could. ;)

I spent most of yesterday off and on trying to sort the issue and I think I have it dealt with, however, the tests showed another issue of extra pilots bailing out of a single seater so I had to trace that issue.

The FMs were altered so that the aircraft now have a dedicated FM for the single seaters where previously they used the same as the two seaters, it turned out that was not the issue of the extra bailout, that was a hook in the CF_D0 where the original two seat aircraft had been converted to a single.

There is a further issue in that the cockpit folders have no damage model but that will have to wait for another time, most of these aircraft will I suppose be used as cannon fodder so as long as the external damage model works that will be sufficient for the moment.

Today will be taken up watching the Nieuports shooting everything up again just to make sure all is well with the bug vampire_pilot pointed out, once I am satisfied a new update will be uploaded.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 31, 2015, 06:26:45 AM
Great news mate!

Have a great New Year's Day!!!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: stalker on December 31, 2015, 07:23:55 AM
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 31, 2015, 09:06:50 AM
Nice....really nice!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on December 31, 2015, 09:49:59 AM
Great news mate!

Have a great New Year's Day!!!

No problem Walter, same to you and yours. ;)

I am very happy to know you finally got everything working Stalker and are back making skins for the Moranes. 8)

Hello guys, here is the latest update that hopefully now eradicates the reported issues please test and report your findings:

https://www.mediafire.com/?jt9ijjja2iya6js

Please remove any previous versions of the folder as this now contains changes to the classes and adds certain entries, FMs and meshes in the plane folders.

The air and stationary entries remain unchanged.

On reading Mike’s notes again I might have set these up wrong by making the files for two turrets when possibly it should be none but it seems to work.

The single seater aircraft have no entries or meshes for turrets in them, only the aircraft with two crew members, the aircraft with actual working turrets were left as Gio made them.

Notes:

During tests with AI one aircraft hit a hillside at a shallow angle and was not destroyed on impact and the pilot exited the aircraft.  The airframe continued to slide and bounce for a while but subsequently was destroyed and disappeared crediting my AI pilot with the kill.

Another type was hit in a following mission and floated down to earth where again it was not destroyed but did eventually disappear, possibly another of the AI flight was credited with the kill as it was not my AI aircraft that shot it down.

Apart from those two instances all aircraft were destroyed in the air or on impact with the ground, at no time was there a repeat of previous behaviour were parts of the aircraft burned throughout the mission, all parts and text disappeared as do bailed and dead pilots.

I wish all of you a very happy and prosperous New Year, Pete. ;D

Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on December 31, 2015, 10:34:15 AM
Thanks for this last update mate!

I'll test in the last hours of this great Il2 years (Who mod on New Year's Day 'll mod all the year!)....

....and moreover I'm happy to know that also Stalker got those beauty full working!!!

Happy New Year at all mates!
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: stalker on January 01, 2016, 11:19:37 AM
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: RealDarko on January 01, 2016, 11:30:57 AM
Beautiful mate, beautiful. Will we see the russian birds too?
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: stalker on January 01, 2016, 11:42:14 AM
Beautiful mate, beautiful. Will we see the russian birds too?
Yes.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on January 01, 2016, 07:14:02 PM
they're in my skins folder already. thanks for making them.
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: SAS~vampire_pilot on January 02, 2016, 02:18:14 AM
Thank you for the hard work!
I've tested the new version in the same mission and now all behaves as it should :)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on January 02, 2016, 06:21:38 AM
Outstanding art work Stalker, looking forward to the Russian aircraft as well. 8)

Thank you for the hard work!
I've tested the new version in the same mission and now all behaves as it should :)

Glad to know all is alright with your testing vampire_pilot, thank you very much for reporting back. ;)

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: stalker on January 02, 2016, 07:02:52 AM
RFC 1916
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,36349.228.html
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: ordway on January 04, 2016, 04:27:57 PM
Thank you for these beautiful planes!

The roll controls and rudder for the Morane Parasol are described as:

Rudder:

"The other controls were practically non-existent. There was a rudder, too small to get you round quickly,"

Roll Controls (move stick sideways):

"ailerons which were so inefficient that sometimes, if you got a bump under one wing taking off, it was literally seconds before you could get the machine on an even keel again."

Elevator (stick forward and back movement):

The elevator (forward and back movement on the stick) is described as "the elevator was as sensitive as a gold balance; the least movement stood you on your head or on your tail. If you were foolish enough to let go of the stick in the air, the stick fell forward with a crack against the tank and the machine went straight into a nose-dive."

(Sagittarius Rising-Cecil Lewis)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: David Prosser on January 04, 2016, 06:18:37 PM
Ah, so you've read Cecil Lewis too ;-)
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on January 05, 2016, 12:16:50 PM
Managed to get some time to test the new Morane / Pfalz family  in DOF   ;D
All working beautifully except the LF and E3 models which give a mission loading fail in QMB and dreaded pink plane in FMB
Oddly the  LF 2 flies perfectly......?
Anyone else having similar problems...or just me    :(
Other than that I'd like to thank all concerned for producing a genuine " Multi Role Aircraft "  ;D

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on January 06, 2016, 05:55:28 AM
Hello Alfie, I never add anything to DoF myself I just wait for Simon and the gang to update that so cannot help there, sorry. :(

One of the last posts I made added a new version of the pack that fixed any reported issues so far we hope, please make sure you have that:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,49180.msg542849.html#msg542849

It is essential to completely remove any previous folders, please do not overwrite as there were changes to classes and the planes folders. ;)

If it is a null error that usually indicates weapons are missing but I would have thought all the components that allowed these to run in the recommended installs are there already in the DoF set up.

If a load to say 100% then a CTD or hanging screen could be deeper conflicts but you would have to give us a copy of the log for anyone to help understand just what is happening.

Anyway, glad you like the parts of the pack that work in DoF, it has been a major effort by all to get that many aircraft up and running in the same pack.

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on January 06, 2016, 12:01:15 PM
Hello Pete
Yes, I definitely need not to be so hasty and yes I think I should wait until Simon get's these beauties flying in DOF   ;)
It's just that after all these years I've become addicted to fannying about with IL 2   o_O
Anyway, back to the chase.........

No CTD....game runs perfectly....load LF or E3 into QMB....gives this

(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q668/alfienoakes2013/2016.01.06%2016-48-16_zpsuju9tweo.jpg)

(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q668/alfienoakes2013/2016.01.06%2016-55-27_zps896xmlqz.jpg)

Quote
The single seater aircraft have no entries or meshes for turrets in them, only the aircraft with two crew members, the aircraft with actual working turrets were left as Gio made them.

This is interesting... I thought the problem was that the LF and the E3 where the only single seat parasol winged a/c in the pack ( ie  it's a cockpit thing)......but then I found the RG and it works perfectly..... :D
HoHum....yes best wait for Simon

Cheers

Alfie

P.S  By way of thanks, I'd just like to say I had an EPIC  dogfight (?) whilst flying aTurkish  Pfalz A2 against two Farman MF 11's over Gallipoli.
There's plenty to miss on a MF 11 and both gunners were very accurate, but I managed to down them both and nurse my now smoking Pfalz back to
airbase to find I had 5 bullets left in the Spandau....... 8)

Marvelous !
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on January 07, 2016, 03:56:18 AM
Hello Alfie, that message could indicate missing weapons, they are available in the Dreamk pack here:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,33456.0.html

Or in these two folders in DBW 1916:

#00_DK_WWI_Aircraft_Arms_update.
#00_DK_WWI_Guns_Bombs.

There are slight differences in DBW 1916 because Istvan altered things slightly, I do not know what was added to DoF.

You could add those and see what happens.

As for the pink aircraft I have no idea, looks cool though, maybe Stalker can add a few such skins to his collection for those of us who cannot replicate the problem you have. :D

But as always here I am trying to guess what is causing your issues, without a log from you there is very little we can do about problems as we cannot see what is happening in your set up.  Even with that I might not see what is wrong but others could and it would certainly help the CUP team if they were aware of possible conflicts before they added these into DoF.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Alfie Noakes on March 19, 2016, 01:57:23 AM
I've been enjoying flying the Morane's again recently and have spotted a bit of a glitch...
I found that from the pilot's view the wing roundels are always French whatever skin is selected
Anyone else found this...or have I messed up another installation  :D

Cheers

Alfie
Title: Re: Morane Saulnier G/H/L/LA
Post by: Mission_bug on March 19, 2016, 04:38:13 AM
Hello Alfie, you will be happy to know that the issue has nothing to do with your install it is the way the aircraft wing is constructed. ;)

The cockpit has to use a copy of the wing to stop a view issue where the wing can appear to have a hole in it, normally I am able to remove
the vertices from the outer section of wing around where the aileron would normally be found, however, the Moranes use a wing that does
not allow anything to be removed there so it will always show the roundels from the skin1o that is used in the cockpit folder.

On most aircraft providing the texture is the same colour and the outer wing section has been removed you will see the roundel from the applied
skin when you look out in that direction, on the Moranes unfortunately if you change the skin of the aircraft you must also add a tga of that skin
into your cockpit folder, even if the wing had been removed this procedure is necessary if there is a different colour skin applied to what is in the
cockpit folder.

So how do I make that tga I guess might be your next question. :D

When you apply a skin in the QMB screen the game makes four files of it, the same as are in the summer folder in you plane folder and puts them
in the 'Cache' which can be found inside your PaintSchemes folder.  Just look for the folder with your aircrafts name and take the skin1o tga from it
and paste it into your cockpit folder and when you fly again it will show the skin on the wing section that you applied to the rest of the aircraft. ;)

Pain in the arse procedure I know, sorry but I do not know of another way to do it.

You will also notice if you have time when someone is shooting at you that there is no damage effect on the parts that have been applied to the cockpit
folder, again I do not know how that is done, If the hit box is not removed from the cockpit parts the aircraft will not load. o_O

Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D