Special Aircraft Service
The SAS Factory - Tech Help, Ancient Mods etc. => The Keepsake: Old Mod Packs, Game Versions and Guest Mods => Dark Blue World Discussion & Support => Topic started by: SAS~Poltava on February 16, 2014, 01:59:51 AM
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While tinkering with my collection of maps I've just encountered a bug, which was first spotted on this thread: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,20624.96.html
To keep it short: Ice isn't Ice any more! :o The bug crept into DBW from 1.6 (where the ice was nice and solid: you could land upon it, start from it, etc) to 1.71 (where it LOOKS like ice but is behaves like water: try and land upon it, it goes splash, you overturn and slowly sink...). And this is with adjusted settings, and regardless if it's stock maps or new, modded ones etc.
It's problematic if you want to portray aerial combat during, say, the Winter and Continuation Wars, when the Finns systematically used airstrips built on frozen lakes.
There must be a fix for this, and I can even image it can be pretty easy to implement. What happaned with the ICE between 1.6 and 1.71??? ???
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I was unable to find a fix for this problem so I ignored it since I dont fly on winter maps that much. All I can tell is that DBW-1916 doesnt have this problem. I tried all settings in the map load.ini, used the stock Moscow winter map for testing but without any luck. The "water state" variable doesnt seem to have any effect, this was added to maps so that you can have winter maps w liquid water.
[WORLDPOS]
CAMOUFLAGE = WINTER
WATER_STATE = ICE (or LIQUID)
MONTH=11
DECLIN = 70
PRESSURE = 745
TEMPERATURE = -10
bit more info
https://www.google.hu/search?q=il-2+winter+map+water+state&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:hu:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gws_rd=cr&ei=eJUAU6zKKejOygOkq4CwCQ#channel=sb&nfpr=1&q=water_state+%3D+liquid&rls=org.mozilla:hu:official
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The fact that DBW 1916 have hard ice while stock DBW doesn't, on the very same maps, is really, really puzzling. ???
The solution lies in finding what differs between these two installs when it comes to the maps...
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Does this happen in a fresh, unmodded DBW 1.71 install?
My game has a lot of extra mods so I cant tell which one is the culprit.
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Poltava, read Gumpy's fix outlined in red here: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,34403.276.html (https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,34403.276.html)
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I cant see any fix for this problem there. Which post is it?
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post #281 looks like the fix :)
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If thats the fix then I dont understand it. I already tried to play around with those numbers but no luck.
The basic problem is that the same load ini produces different "water state" results in DBW and in DBW-1916 hence it cant be the values in the worldpos section because those doesnt change.
The first thing we need to know is whether this problem is part of DBW or its caused by an extra mod which we both installed.
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could it be that it has something to do with the temperature mod that is present in TFM for example?
I installed the Suosussalmi (or how it is called) map yesterday and Peter told me that it has this problem; so I will try and see
if that is the culprit maybe...
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I do not know about any mod which I could directly connect to this ice/water/temperature issue.
Havent got neither the TFM nor any "temperature" mod.
I tried to turn off GurnerFX and my Stock map upgrade pack but it didnt help.
Here's a list of the contents of my #DBW folder, just a few basic mods, mostly new vehicles, aircraft and maps, 3d fixes, nothing which could influence water/ice imho, I got these aircraft and static expansions for DBW (00_DBW_GMEPACK_ folders): https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,19921.0.html:
###00_1956_Core_v13\
##_00Parachute_Scale_CargoBox\
#_00_0SAS_Engine_Mod_4101m_v26-hotfix\
#_00_1SAS_Engine_Mod_4101m_v26\
#_00_PAL-MissionProCombo\
#_00_Wflyr_NEW_Armor_Cars_Flaktower\
#_MAPMODS\
#00_0000Sounds_MG\
#00_F-4 Phantom II\
#00_Sounds_hit\
#00_Sounds_new\
#00_TEXTURES_Cars\
#00Weapon_Effects_Gunsmoke_v1\
#CY6_Infantry\
#DBW_1_71_V4_1_Gurner_FX_comp edited\
#DBW_A_Smoke distance2 Gurner 10k\
#DBW_A6M back to stock 3d patch for UP3\
_#Normandy1_map_replaced\
_0_Train_sounds\
_Carsmaster_Water\
_CY6_VietnamArmor\
0_Typhoons Tempests PACK V2c\
00_0J4M1_J7W1_Ki-98\
00_A4-Skyhawks\
00_A7M2_b\
00_AC-47\
00_AH-1_Cobra\
00_Beaufort_412for409_FLY\
00_Bu-181\
00_Cant-Z506\
00_CR-32quater\
00_Crusader_pack\
00_DBW_GMEPACK__0_0GearDamageFX V 1.3\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_00_Ki-44_Cockpit\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_AMT_HurricaneSpinners\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_AMT_Ordnance\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_B-26_V2.2\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_D4Y_Judys\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_Do-17Z_V2\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_F4U1Birdcage Muas\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_F6C4Hawk\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_IL-4_v1.02\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_Ki-45\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_L-5_SentinelFloat\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_P-61_v2\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_Spitfire PRXIX-CRP v1.4\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_STD\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_TBD-1_v1.02\
00_DBW_GMEPACK_XTD\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_0_08_new_Vehicles_all\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_00_4_Realistic Airfield Lighting v1_5\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_00_deckplanes\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_00_TBD-1_Devastator\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_08_Object_Plane_v2.2\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_08_Tanks_411_for409\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_09_dead_animals\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_09_Wflyr_FlakTower\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_09_Wflyr_NEW_Armor\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_B-26B_Marauder\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_Carrier Crew v5\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_CY6_Mortars\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_Ki-45_Hei_Tei\
00_DBW_GMEPACK2_Ships\
00_Do-335A-6\
00_F100D\
00_F-18C\
00_FI_156\
00_FiatBr20\
00_Fw189sas\
00_He111ABE\
00_He-46C\
00_Hs-123\
00_Huey_static\
00_Huey_UH_1B_AI_Buddy_Huey_ver2\
00_Huey_UH_1B_Gunship\
00_Huey_UH-1B_Doorless_Field-Mod_Gunship\
00_Hughes OH-6 Cayuse\
00_J4M1_J7W1_Ki-98\
00_Ju188A2\
00_Ju388K\
00_Ju-87G_fix\
00_KJ-1\
00_L-159F\
00_Lancaster_new3d\
00_Leo451\
00_Meteors\
00_Mi-24V_version_2_5\
00_Mi-8\
00_MiG_21_v10\
00_MiG15UTI\
00_MiG-19\
00_MIG3_FIX\
00_Mirage_Pack\
00_Pe-8\
00_SB-2M-100A_412for409\
00_Wellesley-MKI\
00_Wellington_412for409_FLY\
00_Whirlwind\
000_Mod Wheels V5\
3DFix_cowling engine prop\
ANIMALS\
Balloon_Repaints\
BF109_nowhitewallgear\
BloodGore\
BUILDINGS_Berlin\
BUILDINGS_MAX\
BUILDINGS_MAX2\
Clouds\
COCKPIT_Windshield_Oil\
COCKPIT_XNEW_CRH\
COCKPITS\
Corsair_NewCanopy\
Damage_layers_v1_4\
DBW_FMB_Font\
DecalsShine\
EFFECTS_Crater\
EFFECTS_FLASH\
Effects_Sidewinder\
GUI\
GunFire_lowres2\
GUNSIGHTS\
HUD\
Independent static smoke and fire\
MAPMODS_Ardennes_RRR_stockreplacement\
MAPMODS_BoM_eng\
MAPMODS_KURSK_RRR_stockreplacement\
MAPMODS_MiSp_Pacific_02\
MAPMODS_N_Africa_Jir_v2\
MAPMODS_Prokhorovka_RRR_stockreplacement\
MAPMODS2_stockreplacement\
MAPMODS3_Highres map textures\
Moon\
NO_Planeshine_v1_3\
PILOTS\
prop_mod_L_v4\
RS-82 rocket\
SAMs v2.0\
Self_Stationary_Jets\
ShipPack2_vp\
SKINMOD\
SKINMOD_MOD\
Small cargo ships\
TANKDUST\
Target Indicators\
TEXTURES_Buildings\
TEXTURES_Buildings2_hires\
TEXTURES_Buildings3_UP3\
TEXTURES_Palms\
TEXTURES_Trains\
VEHICLES_new3d\
Water ring NEW\
WFlyr_Vehicles\
XTD\
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IIUC he change the temperature from a positive value (1) to a negative one (-5) , IIUC this is the way ice 'll act as liquid (positive value) or solid (negative value)....
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I posted the ini entries I used for testing and the temperature is -10:
[WORLDPOS]
CAMOUFLAGE = WINTER
WATER_STATE = ICE
MONTH=11
DECLIN = 70
PRESSURE = 745
TEMPERATURE = -10
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Yep, thats the right ticket, thanks Istvan.
I posted the ini entries I used for testing and the temperature is -10:
[WORLDPOS]
CAMOUFLAGE = WINTER
WATER_STATE = ICE
MONTH=11
DECLIN = 70
PRESSURE = 745
TEMPERATURE = -10
This is ArdennesW/Heavy Snow, with the above Values.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t283/BravoFxTrt/2014021718-36-19_zpsa95d67e4.jpg~original)
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Would be nice to see a list of what Maps in IL2, Stock/Modded had frozen Lakes and Rivers per Country.
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If anyone could test this in a standard DBW 1.71 that would be helpful...
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I fired up standard DBW 1.71 and tested the Moscow and Finsgulf winter maps. Splash in the rivers and lakes even with the ski-equipped Gladiator.
Reverted to stock 4.10.1 and landed on same rivers and lakes just fine.
DBW 1.71 - Y U NO HAVE STRONG ICE?
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Curioser and curioser, said Alice.
No, still no luck, still looks like ice but behaves like water... :(
Which makes a map the the Suomussalmi map very hard to use, as most of the airstrips are improvised ones on frozen lakes...
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Thanks for the info Moezilla.
Now we know for sure that this error is not in DBW 1.6 but its present in 1.71.
I tried to fix this at the ini level but without any luck.
Setting negative temperatures and adjusting the water_state variable changed nothing.
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Hello,
The classfiles from Zuti's Friction Mod deal with the WATER_STATE varaible, could there be an issue with those? (I don't know if these were changed from 1.6 to 1.71). Some time ago I remember experimenting with them and causing this behaviour in my install too... These are the classfiles which I was playing with (I think they're present both in DBW and in SAS Engine Mod, cannot check now):
24A9459A668293DE
52FFE5E67C6273F0
D8F0937C5601DAE4
26D3836CBD459EB0
9EE807369FED1864
2A0BC4B8216AA6A4
AC200654B5EDB5DA
Sorry for the lack of detail, I hope it helps in pointing you somewhere useful :)
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I'm pretty sure that if you remove them you'll get a ctd on map loading but maybe worth a try.
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Benitomuso thought that "the different behaviour should come from the Map2D class" - is this a clue as to what to do with the above?
I will most certainly have a go at removing these later today. Stay tuned... :P
EDIT: But, hmmm, where do I find them? ???
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No, I did not mean to deactivate those classfiles, I don't know what effect that would have (not good, for sure) ;)
I just meant that the WATER_STATE variable is handled in those classes (and surely Map2D too, as Benitomuso suggested), so if there was some change in them from DBW 1.6 to 1.71 (or in SAS Engine Mod), it could be worth checking these changes in their Java code.
Another possibility, as the SAS Engine Mod uses them too, is to try different versions of that mod (2.5, 2.6 and none) inside your DBW install and see if any of them makes any difference.
Sorry guys for not being able to check this myself but I don't have a DBW install in my PC right now...
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Just a thought, isn't the variable temperature mod included in the engine mod ? It uses the 26D3836CBD459EB0 classfile, could it be the origin of the problem ?
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The variable temp mod was included with the engine mod from v2.6 according to the changelog on the thread (https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,23327.0.html). The version of the AI/Engine mod in DBW 1.71 is v2.3 so the temp mod shouldn't be in play. I extracted the stock Moscow load.ini from 4.10.1 and put it into DBW 1.71 and still got no hard ice.
Hey Bravo, what base pack and mods are you rolling with in that pic of the Ardennes map? Could be a clue.
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Good to see the experts here working on this strange problem - I'm sure you will crack the nut! :)
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The water state variable was added by the friction mod of Zuti:
http://ultrapack.tuttovola.org/index.php?topic=247.0
v0.4
- added support for WATER_STATE variable in map ini files, under [WORLDPOS] section
Example:
[WORLDPOS]
CAMOUFLAGE = WINTER
WATER_STATE = LIQUID //-> can be LIQUID or ICE
MONTH=12
DECLIN = 46
PRESSURE = 840
TEMPERATURE = 0
Now you can have WINTER camouflage and be without visible bomb crates on water. Water is water. If your map does
not have this parameter set, behaviour is as it was before.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edit: sorry I see that some of this info was posted before
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... not sure, because I don't fly above snowy/icy landscapes anymore (way too cold for my old bones ... ;)) but I remember something like :
CAMOUFLAGE = WINTER and CAMOUFLAGE = winter ===> with very different results regarding water/ice and craters ...
Sorry if I am off topic ...
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Hello,
The classfiles from Zuti's Friction Mod deal with the WATER_STATE varaible, could there be an issue with those? (I don't know if these were changed from 1.6 to 1.71). Some time ago I remember experimenting with them and causing this behaviour in my install too... These are the classfiles which I was playing with (I think they're present both in DBW and in SAS Engine Mod, cannot check now):
24A9459A668293DE
52FFE5E67C6273F0
D8F0937C5601DAE4
26D3836CBD459EB0
9EE807369FED1864
2A0BC4B8216AA6A4
AC200654B5EDB5DA
Sorry for the lack of detail, I hope it helps in pointing you somewhere useful :)
Thanks yeikov. I checked those classfiles and only three were updated between 1.6 and 1.71 and two of them are just classes declared in the third. That third class is Gear.class and there's lots in it, including lots of catapult mod stuff and one or two mentions of the friction mod. If the gear.class is not the problem there are only 295 other classfiles modified between 1.6 and 1.71. ;-)
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My memory of this is along the same lines as Mick.
I am not an expert and haven't messed with this for a few years , but I thought that
Camouflage = WINTER caused winter conditions and froze all water courses , while
Camouflage = winter caused winter conditions but left water courses liquid.
However , when I was messing with map textures , I don't remember Water State as a part of the Map climatology , so this may have subsumed this function.
Not very helpful in retrospect , I guess.
Kopfdorfer
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Some time ago when I make an attempt to make a map in a equatorial south hemisphere region (DECLIN = -1) I have noticed that winter conditions have nothing to do with the CAMOUFLAGE setting. Winter conditions, such snow precipitation, apppear in any map that MONTH parameter are set between 11 to 3 (november to march), regardless of latitude, temperature or camouflage. I have set TEMPERATURE = 40 and got snowfalls, where rains only appeared between april to october (4 to 10 in MONTH parameter).
This is very weird, since you cannot make a realistic map of an equatorial region or in the southern hemisphere, where winter season span from june to september in reality. Since DECLIN parameter are linked to MONTH parameter, you have to decide if you want realistic sun position in the sky or realistic climate conditions. In any case, it's crappy to see those copious snowfalls in the middle of a tropical rainforest, with temperatures well above 30 degrees Celsius.
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The variable temp mod was included with the engine mod from v2.6 according to the changelog on the thread (https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,23327.0.html). The version of the AI/Engine mod in DBW 1.71 is v2.3 so the temp mod shouldn't be in play. I extracted the stock Moscow load.ini from 4.10.1 and put it into DBW 1.71 and still got no hard ice.
Hey Bravo, what base pack and mods are you rolling with in that pic of the Ardennes map? Could be a clue.
Also the map additions are deactivated by default IIRC. Even in the latest Engine Mod for DBW.
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Thanks Tom2. That helps eliminate another possibility. Hopefully whenever the next version of DBW is released they will have caught and squashed this bug.
Still, if you're out there Bravo, could you try the Moscow map instead of the Ardennes and tell us what mods you were using? Maybe there's a classfile in another mod that fixes this bug and that would probably narrow down the list of suspect classes to a reasonable size.
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Hi Moezilla
This is Moscow Winter, in my PreDBW2 Beta test Install:
When I use the same Map and Mission my Plane Sinks in DBW 1.71
[WORLDPOS]
PRESSURE = 745
TEMPERATURE = -17
CAMOUFLAGE = WINTER
MONTH = 11
DECLIN = 53
WATER_STATE = ICE
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t283/BravoFxTrt/2014030123-15-04_zps3d116c6a.jpg~original)
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Hello,
btw, when DBW2 will be ready ;-)))))?
Greetingz,
ls
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I dont know ls
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Thanks a lot for that info Bravo and for taking the time to test. I guess we can call off the dogs now if it's been fixed.
Still, if you have the ear of the DBW devs maybe you could ask if they remember the cause of the bug and we can try and fix it ourselves.
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I'll try to see what I can find out, but as you know CirX has been in and out as of late, and I think he may know what and where this happened in DBW 1.71.
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I very much appreciate it, Bravo.
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Yes, any tip on how to fix this would be very much appreciated! :)
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Iv sent CirX a PM and he said he'll look at this. Hopefully we find the smoking gun.
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Thanks Bravo...
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif)
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I just found another problem with Ice, while using/activating the WaterNoiseAnimStart = Water/Animated/WaterNoise00.tga,
fix for UV3 Fly By sounds on winter maps, you loose the Ice as well, it reverts to water.
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Try WaterNoiseAnimStart = Water/Animated/WaterNoisex00.tga instead.
I gave up on UV3 because I was unable to hear the flak sounds and even with the fixes the fly by sounds often stopped.
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That worked perfectly, thank you Istvan.
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Hi guys
Thanx BravoFxTrt for giving me a headsup about this. I am not set up at the moment to work with classes, but I can still do wicked testing lol :D
After a few days, I managed to isolate the problem to the class file 26D3836CBD459EB0 , which is LandConf.class , and it originates from the SAS AI, engine and carrier package. I will give Anto a heads up about it, and he can see where in the class the hitch may be, and if it is fixable or if if we can do something about it for DBW 1.71, or in DBW 2.
Cheers!
CirX
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Great, Thanks Piet.
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Thanks a lot CirX! I appreciate you taking the time to test.
UPDATE - Did some digging with my limited Java skills. The LandConf classes in stock 4.10.1 and DBW are obviously different with stock using a variable called zutiWaterState to hold the info read from the WATER_STATE variable in the load.ini. DBW uses a method in a separate Zuti support class which puts the info from the load.ini into a variable called WATER_STATE. Now in the stock Landscape.class there is a variable called bNoWater which checks if zutiWaterState equals "ICE" but there is no corresponding class in the XTD folder of DBW so since DBW will fallback to the stock Landscape.class then maybe bNoWater will always be false so there will always be water on the DBW maps?
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This should fix it (see attachment), just drop into your DBW game folder.
Best regards - Mike
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(http://files.moelan.net/img/ice_to_see_you.jpg)
Success! Well, sort of. :P
Thanks a lot, Storebror!
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@Storebror:
I dropped the folder 'Ice Fix' in #DBW folder but planes still sink into the ice.
(DBW 1.71/V 4.10.1)
EDIT: it does work! :)
It must have to do with a modded load.ini of mine. But after disabling it planes can take of from the ice again.
Thanks for the fix!
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YESSSS! That did it! Thanks for this Storebror!!! ;D
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/Poltava/ice_ice_ice_zps7b832cab.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Poltava/media/ice_ice_ice_zps7b832cab.jpg.html)
And thanks for all those who took time and chipped in. This shows the strength of this community. Even a small problem like this eventually gets solved by the hive intelligence! Great. Now those volunteer Swedes can finally fight the Russians, without fear of drowning...
Many, many thanks!
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+1, way to go Mike.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t283/BravoFxTrt/0503201415-03-19_zps6a706fe2.jpg~original)
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I get ctd and this error message, DBW 1.71
Loaded camouflage: WINTER
java.lang.NoSuchFieldError: climate
at com.maddox.il2.fm.Atmosphere.set(Atmosphere.java:62)
at com.maddox.il2.engine.LandConf.set(LandConf.java:38)
at com.maddox.il2.engine.Landscape.LoadMap(Landscape.java:411)
at com.maddox.il2.engine.Landscape.LoadMap(Landscape.java:397)
at com.maddox.il2.engine.Landscape.LoadMap(Landscape.java:368)
at com.maddox.il2.builder.PlMapLoad.mapLoad(PlMapLoad.java:247)
at com.maddox.il2.builder.PlMapLoad$1.doAction(PlMapLoad.java:485)
at com.maddox.rts.MsgAction.doAction(MsgAction.java:36)
at com.maddox.rts.MsgAction.invokeListener(MsgAction.java:152)
at com.maddox.rts.Message._send(Message.java:1217)
at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendToObject(Message.java:1191)
at com.maddox.rts.Message.sendTo(Message.java:1134)
at com.maddox.rts.Message.trySend(Message.java:1115)
at com.maddox.rts.Time.loopMessages(Time.java:180)
at com.maddox.rts.RTSConf.loopMsgs(RTSConf.java:101)
at com.maddox.il2.game.MainWin3D.loopApp(MainWin3D.java:131)
at com.maddox.il2.game.Main.exec(Main.java:437)
at com.maddox.il2.game.GameWin3D.main(GameWin3D.java:235)
Its probably a mod conflict but I cant find the source of this problem.
Obliviously it works for others hence I got a mod which others dont.
What I noticed is that the same classfile is present in the SAS_Engine_Mod_4101m_v26 so I deactivated that one.
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Dear Poltava , about Sweden volunteers...did I miss one of your wonderful campaign?
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Okay I see, later Engine Mod versions which have been introduce past DBW 1.71 contain an additional "climate" parameter.
Please find attached a modified version of the Ice Fix, this one should be compatible with or without additional (later) Engine Mod versions installed.
Best regards - Mike
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Thanks a lot Mike! Now it works perfectly.
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Dear Poltava , about Sweden volunteers...did I miss one of your wonderful campaign?
Yes, a long while back, for one of Kapteeni's first maps - now long gone.
But I hope to build two campaigns this spring for the Swedish Volunteers: one for the J8 Gladiator and one for DreamK's Hawker Hart. :)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/Poltava/hawker_hart_wip.jpg)
It is possible now, due to this fix!!! ;D
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Great news mate!
Hope to see them in the upcoming spring!
I'll be off-country and far from my beloved main rig....but I'll have my laptop to test them with great pleasure!