Special Aircraft Service

The SAS Factory - Tech Help, Ancient Mods etc. => The Keepsake: Old Mod Packs, Game Versions and Guest Mods => 4.09 Rebel Base. => Topic started by: SAS~CirX on July 16, 2009, 04:45:51 AM

Title: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: SAS~CirX on July 16, 2009, 04:45:51 AM
(http://storebror.it.cx/sas/archive/sas/othermods/miscyak2.jpg)

This is one of the most important mods for offline gamers to have. I quote a bit from the authors original thread at AAA:

Quote
What does this do?

It changes the enemy pilot AI so that they perform defensive maneuvers besides the 360 degree roll.

- The AI should now scissor vertically and horizontally, zig zag from side to side, attempt negative G redouts to foul up your shot, perform an angled split S instead of constantly doing that 360 degree roll thing and all sorts of other stuff

- Made changes to the pilot settings to simulate overheat and reduce their unrealistic advantage of always being perfectly trimmed.

- AI Gunners are now toned down for AI aircraft only. AI Gunners on player controlled aircraft remain with default accuracy, even if co-op host is running AI mod. There's nothing that can currently be done about this.

- Changed landing light behavior. Will only use nav and landing lights at night, and should now use Nav lights in landing pattern, switch to landing lights on final.

- Random chance of enemy aircraft not reacting if you approach from behind with a large energy advantage. This is to simulate the AI getting "bounced". Chance decreases as skill level of enemy pilot increases, almost no chance of this happening vs. an Ace.

AI BEHAVIOR CHANGES ARE MOSTLY DONE TO VETERAN AND ACE LEVELS. TO FULLY UTIILIZE THIS MOD, TRY TO PLAY ON VETERAN OR ABOVE.

More detailed changes and notes available in the readme.txt in the AI_MOD install directory

DOWNLOAD CERT AI mod, SAS rePack  (http://storebror.it.cx/sas/archive/sas/othermods/CertAI_SASver.zip)

To install, defrost the zipfile, and put the folder called "AI_MOD" in your MODS folder

S! and Thanx to Certificate form everyone at SAS!
SAS~CirX
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Spinnetti on December 22, 2009, 03:34:40 PM
Hiya... I'm not clear and wonder if you know if this is in UP2.0? (I've got UP2.0 tweaked to my liking and working great except for the AI question).

Thanks!
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~CirX on December 22, 2009, 03:48:24 PM
I am reasonably sure it is. Have you checked the 1.8 and 2.0 readme's?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Spinnetti on December 22, 2009, 04:41:12 PM
I am reasonably sure it is. Have you checked the 1.8 and 2.0 readme's?
I did read them, but wasn't clear. I just did a QMB test, and with or without the mod added, it is same behavior on Ace, so must be in there already. Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Malone on December 22, 2009, 10:53:10 PM
To confirm, it is in UP, Spinetti, it's incorporated into Zuti's mod, iirc.  ;)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Spinnetti on December 23, 2009, 10:32:08 AM
To confirm, it is in UP, Spinetti, it's incorporated into Zuti's mod, iirc.  ;)

Thanks for the confirmation...
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: AKD on January 02, 2010, 07:49:09 AM
I'm pretty sure it is incorporated into the base files.  No activation/deactivation possible.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Affe on January 03, 2010, 12:02:08 AM
Hi SAS~CirX0, i have big problem with this mod, its my gunner of my Bf-110 or Ju-87 88 etc.... The I.A do not aim l 'ennemie or not shoot   ???


But if attack a B-17 i shoot my face very hard and on right side W.. ?!  >:(


Please man can you update mod I.A for 4.09b1m players? And maybe 4.09m spécialy the gunner problem thanks bro  :-\
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 04, 2010, 07:55:20 AM
Hi SAS~CirX0, i have big problem with this mod, its my gunner of my Bf-110 or Ju-87 88 etc.... The I.A do not aim l 'ennemie or not shoot   ???


But if attack a B-17 i shoot my face very hard and on right side W.. ?!  >:(


Please man can you update mod I.A for 4.09b1m players? And maybe 4.09m spécialy the gunner problem thanks bro  :-\

Check class file for conflict!!!!
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Malone on January 04, 2010, 09:14:24 AM
Affe, you'd have to ask certificate himself about making changes to his mod. SAS~Cirx had nothing to do with the AI mod.... :)
@like walter said, go through the classfiles to see if you have a conflict...
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Affe on January 04, 2010, 03:05:30 PM
Ohh, ok

But classfiles?  :-X
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: socorrista22198 on January 05, 2010, 08:08:16 AM
Cert AI Mod 3.0 is enabled by default in UP2.0, MDS activated or not
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 05, 2010, 01:06:49 PM
Ohh, ok

But classfiles?  :-X

This mod have some incompatibility with some other mods!

Check the original tread od Certificate at AAA to find what the mods in conflict are!!

cheers

walter
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Affe on January 05, 2010, 09:24:35 PM
Ok rgr sir, I use AAA Unifier 1.2 maybe its better use AAA version.

But a have look this (DOWNLOAD CERT AI mod, SAS rePack) ''rePack''  :o


Thanks for help guys.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 06, 2010, 01:17:36 AM
Take a look here
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11504&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11504&highlight=cert)
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13652&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13652&highlight=cert)
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18739&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18739&highlight=cert)
http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6120&highlight=cert (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6120&highlight=cert)

are huge topic but is better that you expend some times to read them to understand what is behind!!!

cheers

walter
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Affe on January 08, 2010, 07:59:57 AM
Yes  :)

I have chose the 2e link.

Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on January 08, 2010, 09:27:29 AM
:)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: panzer1b on March 06, 2010, 02:03:29 PM
very nice mod, i did notice how the AI are not as much of super bots, although i still get shot up pretty badly by vets/aces

but something must be done about gunners,
i have few ideas:
1:  AI could be just made to be less acuurate especially during maneuvers,
2:  Also one idea i believe a tad easier is to modifly the rear gunner's spread factor, (i am looking at mg81 here), as many rear guns are just to sniper with next to 0 spread (don't believe me jump in anything wth a mg81 in it and shoot, then see how it is a freaking sniper), i would do this myself but i am not thet advanced at modding yet
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Condor on May 22, 2010, 05:46:01 PM
Maybe he got mad at you if you were hard to shoot down  and decided to strafe you :D

But to be honest this is an excellent mod .

( It is me or the 109 is a little pink in colour ? )
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: BravoFxTrt on May 22, 2010, 06:06:33 PM
No its not you and that Pink 109 is offended by that remark, either all pink or none at all, but not a little pink. lol :D
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Spinnetti on May 22, 2010, 06:08:00 PM
No its not you and that Pink 109 is offended by that remark, either all pink or none at all, but not a little pink. lol :D

Its Purple... ATI video card I presume? I forget the setting in config.ini, but you can fix that (unless its just a really bad paint job!)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Condor on May 22, 2010, 06:15:11 PM
Pink , purple are all the same to me . And I insist it is a little pink/purple .
I thought you had graphics card problem , just like Spinnetti said .
The conf.ini lines are maybe

TexFlags.UseVertexArrays=0
TexFlags.VertexArrayExt=0

Or Here : http://www.allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16418 (http://www.allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16418)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: BravoFxTrt on May 22, 2010, 07:03:44 PM
Well shoot, thanks for the tip guys, and I have to admit I am coloured blind to some extent, "I dont see the pink", so I am going to take your word for this and try new settings from which I will post a screen of the 109.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Spinnetti on May 22, 2010, 07:39:57 PM
Well shoot, thanks for the tip guys, and I have to admit I am coloured blind to some extent, "I dont see the pink", so I am going to take your word for this and try new settings from which I will post a screen of the 109.
Well, if you can't see it anyway, no need to fuss with it!
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Condor on May 24, 2010, 02:31:04 PM
Yes it worked . Really . The 109 is grey now .
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: BravoFxTrt on May 25, 2010, 04:21:46 AM
Yes and thank you for the tip.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Guggy on June 03, 2010, 03:23:38 PM
hello there.

As of late, I'm not 100% sure that the AI pack is working for me.  In the past two fights I've engaged in (one vs a Spit 5, the other vs a Yak 9) the AI has done those weird pointless rolls as well as other bizarre moves.  Is there any way to guarantee that the mod is running?

I've placed the folder inside my Mods folder, so it seems that it is installed correctly at least  :-X
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on June 04, 2010, 02:08:59 AM
Did you install the Lutz trigger mod?

Those are incompatible at the moment!

Otherwise check that you don't have doubled class files and try to put it at the top of the mods folder!

cheers

walter
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Tomoholic on June 05, 2010, 03:12:07 PM
Did you install the Lutz trigger mod?

Those are incompatible at the moment!

Otherwise check that you don't have doubled class files and try to put it at the top of the mods folder!

cheers

walter

Lutz trigger mod?

Where can that be found?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Whiskey_Sierra_972 on June 05, 2010, 03:43:35 PM
It's still WIP!

Try here: http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,2972.0.html (http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,2972.0.html)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Mick on June 05, 2010, 04:02:42 PM
http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/Mods/Demo%20TRIGnSnip.rar (http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/Mods/Demo%20TRIGnSnip.rar)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Novotny on February 18, 2011, 03:19:13 AM
Hello gents.  Please excuse the necromancy, but could anyone advise if Certificate's mod is working with 4.101?  Many thanks.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Checkyersix on February 18, 2011, 01:27:25 PM
Probably not, there were extensive changes to the AI code in 4.10 to accommodate the new glide bombs, etc...
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Novotny on February 18, 2011, 02:30:14 PM
Ah well.  Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Dinosbacsi on February 18, 2011, 02:33:17 PM
But, in a topic somebody said it works with 4.10 =D
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Checkyersix on February 18, 2011, 02:36:44 PM
If there's a version for 4.10, then maybe, but the 4.09 version would be missing a lot of stuff that the AI needs to use the new weapons.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: U on May 10, 2011, 10:04:03 AM
HSFX5's readme, says that this is included, even if it is 4.101.

Isn't there any standalone version of that to use with SASModact 4.10.1?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Anto on May 11, 2011, 08:47:28 PM
If there's a version for 4.10, then maybe, but the 4.09 version would be missing a lot of stuff that the AI needs to use the new weapons.

Thats pretty spot on from my account. This does work with 4.101m but AI are retarded when it comes to using weapons.

Honestly though, even Cert AI mod is fairly out of date and needs work. I've been testing this with the new jets and it falls short in a lot of ways. For example, AI jets very commonly overshoot their targets in zoom-booms and NEVER use head on attacks. If they use rockets or missiles, them seem only to use them within 500m of the target (in fact, I watched a F-86D fire rockets at its target at less than 100m!!)

The AI mod is also lacking some of the other updates including overheating and ground attack behaviour fixes. Soo, I think its time we do something about this :)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Stratodog on May 11, 2011, 09:29:59 PM
For example, AI jets very commonly overshoot their targets in zoom-booms and NEVER use head on attacks.

Just wondering,  are these veteran or higher AI? I remember that Certificate set it up so that only vet. or higher would shoot head-on.

The AI mod is also lacking some of the other updates including overheating and ground attack behaviour fixes. Soo, I think its time we do something about this :)

I'll second that.  I'd love to see this happen.  :)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Far77 on May 12, 2011, 02:24:28 AM

The AI mod is also lacking some of the other updates including overheating and ground attack behaviour fixes. Soo, I think its time we do something about this :)

I watched AI-vs-AI a lot, and see a lot of various shorcomings. I think that AI "tactical" thinking should be improved too. For example jets often don't use their speed superiority , and often fall victim of piston-engined planes while dogfighting.

So if you need a "beta-tester", please send me PM. I hope that I would be able to find some time for  this.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Anto on May 15, 2011, 09:32:34 PM
Stratodog: Thanks for the hint, I might give that a try :)

Far77: Indeed, I've seen MiG-17s get the shit ripped out of them by P-51s and in many cases F-86Ds (currently beta testing) get their arse wooped by the rear gunners on Tu-4s. It isn't right. At the other end of the spectrum, this mod stops WW1 biplanes from doing their endless spiral towards the ground in a dogfight.

With some careful thinking, this mod could be perfect and run with 4.101m. I unfortunately can't volunteer for this task, my hands are incredibly full. But regardless, a merging of all AI mods and updating this to 4.101m is essential.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Far77 on May 15, 2011, 10:06:37 PM

Far77: Indeed, I've seen MiG-17s get the shit ripped out of them by P-51s and in many cases F-86Ds (currently beta testing) get their arse wooped by the rear gunners on Tu-4s. It isn't right. At the other end of the spectrum, this mod stops WW1 biplanes from doing their endless spiral towards the ground in a dogfight.

With some careful thinking, this mod could be perfect and run with 4.101m. I unfortunately can't volunteer for this task, my hands are incredibly full. But regardless, a merging of all AI mods and updating this to 4.101m is essential.

By the way, it seems to me that currently planes are too easy to disintegrate their fuselage. Especially funny it looks with jets which fuselage disintgrates approximately through their construction alignments showing engines etc...   :).

Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: X-Raptor on May 16, 2011, 06:09:14 AM
[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.
[/quote]

 ;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genius here? ::)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Roger Smith on May 16, 2011, 07:20:26 AM
[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.

 ;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genyus here? ::)
[/quote]
it's spell Genius
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: X-Raptor on May 16, 2011, 05:02:10 PM
[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.

 ;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genyus here? ::)
it's spell Genius
[/quote] thkk  ;)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: OberstDanjeje on May 17, 2011, 01:25:52 AM
It's a too complex matter and even Certificate give up :(
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: X-Raptor on May 17, 2011, 12:50:43 PM
Cerificate give up about BUT make a great "first-step" in fact his AI changing is active even in HFSX by default ;). Imagine if anyone will continue about starting FROM his knowledge..
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: OberstDanjeje on May 17, 2011, 01:53:07 PM
It was a big step ;)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Wildchild on July 17, 2011, 08:40:13 PM
Were is certificate anyway?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: LuseKofte on July 18, 2011, 07:15:29 AM
[quote
Regarding the AI. I hope that someone can improve it because for me it is one of the weakest points in the nice game.

 ;) that woud be the best of all mod FB1946. only CERTIFICATE made something about this till 2yrs ago..was he the only genius here? ::)
[/quote]

Getting AI to think is like making humanoids, Actually the strongest point in this game is the AI, if you think our AI is dumb try any other simulation even clod the new warthog they are really stupid in other games compare to this game. I think it shows the difficulty in this task making AI inpredictiable. But good luck, because it will improve game a lot.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Wildchild on July 18, 2011, 12:28:15 PM
Would it be possible for a player to go online and record other pilots movements and implement those into the AI?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Anto on July 18, 2011, 08:51:54 PM
Would it be possible for a player to go online and record other pilots movements and implement those into the AI?

I wish that was possible!
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: _AUS_Salmo on July 18, 2011, 11:08:09 PM
AI aircraft movements are controlled by the "manouvers" file. This is a huge file that contains a large number of different types of manouvers that can be performed by AI's. Here's just a small sample of some of the manouvers to give you an idea of the range of manouvers that are coded for:

PULL_UP; LEVEL_PLANE; ROLL; ROLL_90; ROLL_180; SPIRAL_BRAKE; SPIRAL_UP; SPIRAL_DOWN; CLIMB; DIVING_0_RPM; DIVING_30_DE; DIVING_45_DEG; TURN; MIL_TURN; LOOP; LOOP_DOWN; HALF_LOOP_UP; HALF_LOOP_DOWN; STALL;
SPEEDUP; BELL; FOLLOW; LANDING; TAKEOFF; ATTACK; WAVEOUT; SINUS; ZIGZAG_UP; ZIGZAG_DOWN; ZIGZAG_SPIT; HALF_LOOP_DOWN_135; HARTMANN_REDOUT; ROLL_360; STALL_POKRYSHKIN; BARREL_POKRYSHKIN; SLIDE_LEVEL; SLIDE_DESCENT; RANVERSMAN; CUBAN; CUBAN_INVERT; GATTACK; PILOT_DEAD; HANG_ON; DELAY; EMERGENCY_LANDING; GATTACK_DIVE; GATTACK_TORPEDO; GATTACK_CASSETTE; GATTACK_KAMIKAZE; GATTACK_TINYTIM; FAR_FOLLOW; SPIRAL_DOWN_SLOW; FOLLOW_SPIRAL_UP; SINUS_SHALLOW; GAIN; SEPARATE; BE_NEAR; EVADE_UP; EVADE_DN; ENERGY_ATTACK; ATTACK_BOMBER; PARKED_STARTUP; COVER; TAXI; RUNWAY; FAR_COVER; TAKEOFF_VTOL_A; LANDING_VTOL_A; CLIMBFOR_ADVANTAGE; MOD_ATTACK;

There are two issue here: (1) Whether the range of manouvers needs expanding, and (2) whether the 'inteligence' of the AI in using those manouvers needs improving. Can I suggest that people address these issues, rather than generic complaints about "poor AI manouvers" & requests for "beter AI performance". Make requests for specific manouvers that are not in-game, or to be more specific about what is is that they percieve as poor AI performance. That way the coding guru's can get a better idea of how to improve the manouvers file.

I'll kick it off with some specifics:
(1) AI just gliding off anywhere when their engines are dead, even if there is an airfield closeby. Would be good if AI could attempt an emergency landing.
(2) Thatch-weave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave) manouver for allied AI pairs, particularly after mid-WW2.
(3) High & low Yo-Yo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Immelmann) manouvers
(4) Immelmann  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn)manouver
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Anto on July 19, 2011, 01:44:20 AM
The biggest issue is more the 2nd. The AI in game currently don't use a fair amount of those maneouvers or don't use them well (e.g. trying to do barrel rolls at low level!)

There is some progress with this which will become available soon. For now, there is a beta 'AI Engines Hotkeys' mod available in DBW which at least included Cert's AI mod.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Far77 on July 19, 2011, 10:36:56 PM
I can add that enemy-AI can accelerate his aircraft (as some unseen powerful rocket engine is turn on on his airplane for a fraction of a second) if you shoot at him (while shooting usually ~perpendicular to its course). Or it can fastly slow down for a fraction of a second (for example when AI shoot at your airplane or another AI from behind).

Some heavy bombers can swing their wings ("being frightened") like fighters. :)
And some fighters can swing/roll their wings as propellers...

But there are some proper exceptions. For me AI of Il-10 is one of the best. It flies smoothly, doesnot swing/shake his wings (at least I can't remember seeing this). The only overdoze is its fantastic accurate shooting (maybe the best for wing-mounted cannons) despite its crew (cockpit) very poor ergonomy and primitive gunsights.

It would be nice if some software expert look at its coding.

Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: _AUS_Salmo on July 20, 2011, 07:24:14 AM
What is needed is a very carefull and detailed DECISION procedure that will screw up as little as possible given the variety of situations that could be presented to AI.
Here ...here ... :)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: andqui on July 20, 2011, 08:39:34 AM
One thing that is missing from the vast majority of AI representations is a sense of the "larger picture". To take Il-2 as an example, no matter how well the AI knows how and when to pull a split-s or how to keep it's speed up in a fight, a lone AI fighter will chase down and attack any enemy that it sees, no matter how badly the odds are stacked against it. As it is, the AI's main goal is just to fight, instead of to fight and live. In most situations, and Il2 dogfight will go on until all but one or two of one side get's shot down, and the only time the AI breaks off the fight is when they're damaged or out of ammo. IRL, loosing a third of your side in a fight was a devastating loss, yet it happens with certainty each time groups of AI fight. The only exception happens when the mission uses high-speed aircraft like jets, when the various aircraft get separated and the AI's poor shooting leaves a number alive at the end. The AI never sees that it is the only friendly fighter in the air, surrounded by enemy aircraft, says "Oh sh!t" and dives for the deck as fast as it can and goes home, which frequently happened. The AI recognizes some aircraft as energy-fighters, and does dive as a combat tactic, but instead of extending away to RTB or to climb safely and get energy back, the AI simply pulls out at the bottom and zoom climbs up, leaving it even more vulnerable than if it had stayed up. If the AI is a fighter bomber, it will only jettison it's weapons if it is directly shot at, and never anticipates it by jettisoning and turning to fight before the merge. If these AI FB's are escorted and don't need to jettison, they keep trundling along at cruise speed rather than speeding up and making themselves difficult targets.

I realize this is immensely difficult to code, but it is something to think about. The only sim I have seen that does this convincingly is Battle of Britain II, which uses a system that tracks how much of a disadvantage the AI finds itself in (i.e. friendly:enemy ratio and losses), and at a randomized tipping point makes the loosing side try it's best to get the hell out of dodge. It also uses an AI field-of-view routine so you can bounce an enemy from behind or below, and also let's the AI sometimes loose track of the player if he hugs the deck, just as the human player can loose track of the AI. Often, a dogfight was described by pilots as intense and then suddenly they're alone in the sky. This is doesn't happen too much in Il2, and the AI knows exactly where anything within a fixed radius is and then proceeds to fight to the death.

Of course, if the fight happens at a very small scale, like 2v2 or 4v4, the percentage losses might be expected to be higher, and there are many variations and exceptions. While the AI in Il-2 is better than most, and cert's AI mod was a quantum leap, as is the version in DBW, it would be absolutely fantastic if it were possible to implement a desire to return successfully to base. I'm just trying to point out issues that the outstanding modders here might be able to address.

thanks
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Murray on July 20, 2011, 11:42:12 AM
It's worst when the AI generates these random "Aces" that have superhuman ability to HO and then will latch on and follow you around to the ends of the earth, never running out of gas and never giving up. You can get engaged in 10 fights and disengage from more and the "Ace" will continue to follow you. I started the late war 262 DGEN campaign and had this Yak3 that literally followed me for 45 minutes with his wingman. The only thing I could do was run away. They were orbiting 5000m above me always and if I got near they dove down. If I manuvered they had the upper hand (yak3s vs 262). So I ran, and shot down 12 IL2s while avoiding the yak3s. I finally got tired of it and somehow after much effort managed to get a HO into the "Ace" AI and shot him down. After that his non-Ace wingman promptly bugged out for home. Took my last rounds, as well, so it's a good thing.

I really hate games where the AI cheats. Especially where the AI cheats to punish the players (as compared to other AI) and hunt the player's plane down specifically. This isn't the first gave I have experienced this, and I just hate it on the principle of the matter.

Any AI mods that change that would be welcome in my book, but I do not know how hard any of that is to code so I'll just post my opinions and leave them out there for any others to use (or not...) how they like.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Slikk on July 20, 2011, 12:37:17 PM
 
I really hate games where the AI cheats. Especially where the AI cheats to punish the players (as compared to other AI) and hunt the player's plane down specifically. This isn't the first gave I have experienced this, and I just hate it on the principle of the matter.

Any AI mods that change that would be welcome in my book, but I do not know how hard any of that is to code so I'll just post my opinions and leave them out there for any others to use (or not...) how they like.

@ Murray

You don’t need a mod, you can fix this yourself. Bandits that hunt specifically for the player can be fixed in the FMB. All you have to do is open the mission in the FMB, then find the enemy flight that’s attached to the player aircraft and unattach it.  ;)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Stratodog on July 21, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
Another thing that can be done in the FMB to get AI aircraft to bug out and go home is to decrease their fuel.  It takes a little experimentation to get the right fuel load so that they will fight for 5-10 minutes and then head for base, but it can be done. 
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Uzin on July 21, 2011, 02:06:25 PM
The first thing with AI behaviour which seems feasible , is to randomize the distance the AI becomes aware of the human pilot at his six.
The second, more complex thing would be if AI can be catched surprised, when player is going from the sun.
But, where is the genius who would programme it ?  :P
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Malone on October 10, 2011, 05:00:18 AM
that particular genius goes by the name of Lutz, from C6/UP forums. ;)
his ongoing AOC mod development includes all of the above options, as well as AI not being able to see through clouds, etc....
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Mick on October 10, 2011, 05:13:36 AM
... well in fact Lutz belongs to :

http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/hs/phpBB2/index.php?sid=90d972ed20c16672311133c3da026247

... and is currently completing the AOC 3 export pack ...  ;)

... it will include the AI not being able to see through/inside clouds, or facing the sun or at night mod etc....

AFAIK, this new pack will only be compatible with a 4.09m install (with extra features extracted from 4.10) ...

Later, things like historical tactics, the "Abwehrkreis" (defensive circle) for ex, will be added ...  ;)
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Malone on October 10, 2011, 06:08:01 AM
yes, my mistake - thanks for the correction, Mick (and apologies to Lutz for the misrepresentation ;))
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: X-Raptor on October 10, 2011, 11:21:31 AM
... well in fact Lutz belongs to :

http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/hs/phpBB2/index.php?sid=90d972ed20c16672311133c3da026247

... and is currently completing the AOC 3 export pack ...  ;)

... it will include the AI not being able to see through/inside clouds, or facing the sun or at night mod etc....

AFAIK, this new pack will only be compatible with a 4.09m install (with extra features extracted from 4.10) ...


Later, things like historical tactics, the "Abwehrkreis" (defensive circle) for ex, will be added ...  ;)

WHAT THE HELL??!!.. NOT 4.10?? If this is true this most wanted mod will be 90% unusuable.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: shardana on October 10, 2011, 12:19:45 PM
Would it be possible to install it as any other mod or it works in a different way, i mean only for aoc missions?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Mick on October 10, 2011, 01:36:19 PM


AFAIK, this new pack will only be compatible with a 4.09m install (with extra features extracted from 4.10) ...


WHAT THE HELL??!!.. NOT 4.10?? If this is true this most wanted mod will be 90% unusuable.

Well Lutz made the choice of keeping 4.09 and import into it whatever he judged useful from 4.10 and the upcoming ones, simply because this solution is way easier than the one consisting in porting 4.09 mods to 4.10 and then 4.101 ... and then what ...??

He mostly works alone, no team work except for testing, but nothing will prevent us from having a multiple install game etc...

In case you would like to have a (French) idea of what he has already done with AOC2a version here is a very interesting 55 page pdf for you to read ...  ;)

http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/Mods/AOCv2a.pdf

Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: agracier on October 10, 2011, 03:03:12 PM
In DBW I've been 'using' the AI Cert Mod along with an addition or modification by Skipper ... or at least that is what I intended, cause while this mod is important, it's often hard to see results directly when starting a game.

I must say that luckily no aircraft display any whacky or downright stupid flying maneuvers, but even so I'd like to know if this mod is otherwise doing nothing in a DBW install?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: xmlnoob on April 02, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
errr sorry to jump in, i was out of action in il2 for a while....and iirc this ai mod is not compatible with 4.101, wondering has it updated for 4.101 or is there a equivalent ai mod out there?

Thanks alot.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: hguderian on April 02, 2012, 01:10:16 PM
Go here:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,23327.0.html

Read carefully!

Cheers
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: jookan on March 09, 2014, 08:25:16 AM
Is this in DBW by deafult?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: blackshark on July 31, 2014, 04:15:07 AM
does it work with (offline) HSFX 7.02 ? in other words may i add it on top of HSFX ?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: SAS~Malone on July 31, 2014, 05:06:40 AM
no - it's clearly marked 4.09 only, and won't work on other versions...
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Airbourne on June 17, 2015, 02:26:20 AM
I hope this post on an old thread is not out of order. (If it is please feel free to move or delete it). The truth is that I am confused. You say Cert's AI mod is for 4.09 only but it is a standard part of the DBW 1916 3.4 add-on. Indeed the difficulty with using autopilot to take off in 1916 is due to the presence of the AI mod. Try taking it out and the problem disappears. DBW 1916 3.4 is made only for 4.101 or later versions, isn't it? I have DBW 1.71 in a separate installation on a 4.101 base and I have added Cert's mod. I get the same autopilot problems but I appear to be getting more sophisticated AI behaviour as you would expect if the mod is working, though I have to admit that that might be my imagination since I haven't had the chance yet to give it a lengthy workout. For me this is an important matter because I have always felt the AI mod is one of the most important in the whole game.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: Knochenlutscher on June 17, 2015, 11:33:36 AM
It was calways there, in your DBW. Possibly not all improvements work at once.
But to my knowledge that was deal with the original too. Some people saw the difference,
others complained pages long that they don't see any difference. You can trace it by playing two times the same Mission
and analyze AI behaviour, not focussing on your plane etc. Then you see marginal differences (random) behaviour.

As Malone said, this version of AI Mod is 409 comp only.
Hit delete or use at own risk, this version is superceded by newer Files in your DBW.

A quick file search will let you see that all are included in XTD/DBW Base,
with 3 out of 4 superceded by latest compatible version of SAS AI_Engine_HotKeys_Carriers as well.

A quick Test showed I was able to load this, needs more testing to see.

Anyway, hope I could help you a bit
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: spartan18a on June 18, 2015, 01:26:18 AM
This is the most necessary mod I've ever read about. I hope it will eventually make it to the 4.12.2
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod
Post by: Airbourne on June 18, 2015, 03:00:06 AM
Good. Thanks for the help Knochenlutscher. I have looked at the XTD folder in DBW and a quick check reveals three of the four relevant files. The other I may have missed or it may have been deliberately left out. I remember reading somewhere that one of the files in the AI mod was not very important. Now I know that I don't have to put the AI mod in DBW. This all started because I was sneaking up on a Me110 and at exactly 300 metres it spotted me and went into a split-s: just the behaviour that pre-dated the AI mod. However the mod didn't stop planes doing that sort of behaviour, it just stopped them doing it all the time. I will fly more and see what happens. I expect the behaviour will vary as the mod files dictate.

I still don't understand why the mod is in 1916 but who cares? Perhaps it is another variant of the mod.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: spartan18a on September 19, 2015, 07:02:42 AM
Will this mod be ever madre for the 4.12.2?
The AI is probably the worst part of the latest version.
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: SAS~Gerax on September 19, 2015, 09:27:44 AM
The AI is probably the worst part of the latest version.

why?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: spartan18a on September 19, 2015, 10:41:22 AM
Sniper deflection shooting,
Poor evasive maneuvers,
Very high skills in average pilots ....
Very predictable moves
and does the AI have blind spots?
Can the AI see through clouds?
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: jeanba on September 19, 2015, 12:53:23 PM
Yes
The problem is for instance with dgen
There are so much losses that the player 's unit is decimated in 1 or 2 missions and things are very difficult for the subsequent situations
Title: Re: Certificate's Ai Mod [4.09]
Post by: spartan18a on September 20, 2015, 04:38:32 AM
I have placed the mod in my CUP installation in the jsgmemods to see what happens.
The game works fine without any kind of crashing but I am not sure if the mod is working.
It would be nice if more people do the same and we get more empirical data.

This mod seems so good ....