Special Aircraft Service
the SAS Hangar => The Lounge => Topic started by: Kopfdorfer on June 11, 2018, 11:56:15 AM
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Hey Guys,
I am setting out to educate the remaining IL2 flyers out there who don't already know ,
just what SEOW (Scorched Earth Online War) is and why I love it so much.
For an overview , see the wiki article here :
http://seowhq.net/seowwiki-en/index.php?title=Main_Page
As well as some words and thoughts I intend to host a few Q and A sessions on TS (dates to be announced) ,
and ultimately a few sessions on how to plot missions using the SEMP (Scorched Earth Mission Planner).
I am a user but not an expert , and so in depth queries should be made at the top , at SEOWHQ , here :
http://www.seowhq.net/
If you are interested in learning about the Mission Planner , the first thing is to ensure that you have a functioning
Internet Explorer v11. This is the interface the SEOW system was built to exploit , and frankly , though it can be done ,
I don't have the technical expertise to troubleshoot a browser that can't interact with the Mission Planner.
If someone with carnal knowledge can , by all means step up and offer your services.
I hope a few of you will follow along and join in , and ultimately I hope to run a few SEOW Campaigns before IL2 finally starts
pushing up the daisies !
Kopfdorfer
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Just What is SEOW ?
Why would I want to use it ?
I am aiming to provide some basic information about what SEOW (Scorched Earth Online War) is , what it can do , what it can’t do , and why it might be an appealing means of IL2 Mission and Campaign generation.
We all know that to fly an IL2 Mission , a mission (.mis file) needs to be created somewhere by someone. Normally this is done using the in-game FMB (Full Mission Builder).
The advantage to this is that we (as the mission designer) see everything we do , and we control most of what occurs in the mission , at least up to the random elements of AI programming and human unpredictability.
Unfortunately , this means that the Mission Builder has vital knowledge as to what will unfold in the mission ( how many , when and where ) , and very little will be a total surprise to him/her.
This eliminates the tension and drama of a real combat flight mission.
The same holds true when the same mission is flown repeatedly (even the very best of missions) .
Sometimes the Mission Builder , pleased with his/her creation , can’t resist leaking information about his mission to the participants that truly removes an element of surprise and drama from the pilots flying it.
Another thing that occurs in one-off missions , and indeed in pre-scripted campaigns as well , is that there is (usually) no consequence for brash unconsidered actions.
No matter how many P-51D-20-NTs are lost , you will have the same number of the latest models available on the flight line of the same base all set for the next mission.
There is no risk or consequence for poor (or excellent for that matter ) performance.
Not so in reality. Planes destroyed must be replaced (if available at all) either by ferry flights , or by shipment. This takes time – if it happens at all.
If you lose an aircraft , you might be sitting out the next mission – if you were lucky enough to get back alive.
If your unit loses too many aircraft , you might be forced to fly an inferior replacement aircraft , pulled from the line for refit , or distributed to other units.
You might be required to use a vital fighter for a recon flight , because all the recon aircraft were shot down due to inadequate fighter cover.
Another element that occurs in normal online IL2 flight . whether in Dogfight mode or Coop mode , is that the measurement of success by individual point allocation leads (again) to less coordinated teamwork and unrealistic risk taking because of the lack of
consequences , and the limited application of group objectives/goals.
Again for many virtual pilots this is fine , but for me if there is no interaction necessary to achieve a group objective , I must ask myself why am I flying online at all ?
Another element missing in most online missions/campaigns is the importance , difficulty , and danger of reconnaissance and transport flights.
I understand that most online pilots will not choose to fly these aircraft even if available – no points can be accumulated by flying them , and they are certainly neither sexy , nor powerful , nor fast. But they were/are essential to successful military operations in every theatre in the past and in the present.
They can and should be represented as more than just slow moving targets in the combat flight sim world.
I have found some of the most exciting missions to be flown in these aircraft types.
(Nothing gets my adrenaline up more quickly than to be flying along stealthily , taking recon photos in my Storch or Sentinel , and spotting an incoming flight of enemy fighters.)
The final and deepest element that is poorly represented in most Dogfight or Coop Online Missions is Fog of War. We all know way too much.
For me uncertainty holds the key to the core of the reason why I fly this sim in the first place – excitement.
For me excitement is raised by not knowing where and when the enemy will appear from. It comes from not knowing what type of aircraft I will be facing and how many there are. It comes from not knowing precisely where the target is located and having to search for it – all the while looking over your shoulder.
It comes from being surprised by the tactical situation , and having to resolve it in seconds.
Aerial warfare did not evolve in isolation. It is fundamentally welded to the other elements of war , on the ground and at sea. If these components are not represented within a combat flight sim with integrity ( doesn’t have to be perfect ) immersion suffers.
Technically the structure of SEOW offers a system to generate missions that are related to each other by the results of the previous missions flown/run.
Because IL2 uses the .mis file as the basis for an online mission , SEOW must be able to generate a .mis file for each mission to be flown in the campaign.
1) When creating a SEOW Campaign , you must first create a template.
The template is based on an existing IL2 Map for which specific data has been captured and stored in a database (SEDB). Because this is work that is done outside of the existing IL2 Map , not all maps’ data have been captured to date , but enough have to keep you flying interesting campaigns for a long time.
(If you are dead set to campaign on a Map for which the data has not been captured , it is entirely possible by following info in the SEOW Wiki , to capture and input the data from any map you like – IF you are willing to do the work.)
The campaign designer will use the FMB to add any aircraft , ground units , sea
units and objects he/she wishes to populate map with and create the template for
the campaign.
2) The Campaign Designer will then “Initialize” the template using the Scorched Earth Dynamic Campaign System software , the SEDCS , which in effect is taking all the data from the Template .mis file and storing it in a database.
3) Now the designer connects the SEDCS to the Scorched Earth Mission Planner (SEMP) which is a GUI interface that can be accessed online by the “Commanders” for both sides of the campaign (and the Campaign Administrator).
Using the SEMP , the “Commanders” can see their units’ locations , each units’ characteristics , and can plot their movements by land/sea/air for the upcoming mission.
4) When both sides have made their plots (all of which are unknown to the opponents), the SEDCS is activated to “generate” a Coop Mission (.mis file).
5) The Coop Mission is then flown. Neither side knows what objectives the opponent has in mind for the mission. Flights may all be human flown , all AI flown , or a combination of the two.The loading screen can (and in my opinion should be) set up so that each side sees only the aircraft available for their side.
6) The Mission Log File is analyzed using the SEDCS , which modifies the original Template in the SEDB according to what was damaged/destroyed during the mission.
7) The process begins again.
The other excellent attribute of the system , is that you can design and implement your own unique Victory Conditions for each campaign. These can be as simple or as complex as you make them. Because SEOW allows you to assign your own Point Values to every object in the HSFX lexicon , you need not be tied to the default in game point values.
And your Victory conditions need not be confined to Point Value. You may have to achieve a certain outcome by a certain Campaign Time or Date , you may have to control 1 or multiple “Control Points” which you can select and construct for your campaign. The combinations are limited only by your own ingenuity.
It is possible to have a tense immersive campaign with just 2 participants (one commanding each side) , but the real enjoyment of this system comes from flying with and against squads of opponents.
The depth of campaign is controlled by the designer. Some of the best campaigns are the simplest , but campaigns can be made highly complex , involving supply usage , industrial production , dynamic recon (recon info decays over time , so you often must keep up recon flights over the same area to keep track of enemy movements) , spies , active radar , and much more.
For a good overview of SEOW and what it has to offer , see the wiki page here :
http://seowhq.net/seowwiki-en/index.php?title=Main_Page
As you will see , there is an incredible complexity of choices available to you for your own campaigns. Don’t let the amount of information there discourage you -
The fundamental power of the SEOW system is that you can configure the system to what you want from your campaign – you are required to use only what you wish.
If you have questions about the System , I strongly recommend you read the Wiki.
Also , if you haven’t already done so , download Teamspeak , and drop in to the SEOWHQ Teamspeak Server , introduce yourself , and ask some questions. The guys there are mostly experts , and will be able to answer any questions you have , or to direct you to someone who can.
I am willing to answer the ones I can ( though only the simpler ones !) , so you can contact me through SAS , M4T , or Hyperlobby.
The last thing I need to mention is HSFX.
HSFX (currently at v7.0.3) is a mod pack designed specifically for integration with the SEOW System. For this reason , it is the best and most dependable Modpack available for this use.
Because it has not been upgraded for sometime , there are some excellent recent mods which are not incorporated. It is possible to add many of these through the JSGME.
The best place to have access to these is JP Dore’s wonderful site here :
http://www.derrierloisirs.fr/il2/bdd2012/
Adding maps is usually a straight forward download/place in jsgme/activate in jsgme process (unless you are missing objects).
For aircraft mods to work with SEOW , information must be added to the SEOW Database. This requires a bit of work , and is not within the realm of my technical abilities to advise on.
Many SEOW campaigns come with their own JSGME Mod Packs which are incorporated to include later mods and changes in the technics.ini to include custom Columns , Trains , and to make such subtle changes as varying vehicle , column and ship speeds , ship armour protection , armour formations and much , much more.
This type of application is for the experienced and technically advanced user.
I suggest you start with a basic campaign , and go from there to where your curiosity leads you.
There are a selection of pre-formatted campaigns available here :
http://seow.sourceforge.net/
In my opinion , the SEOW system is the culmination of the IL2 realm (even without the latest in mods) and is well worth the investment of time required to learn and use it.
Check it out , and make your own determination.
Kopfdorfer
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KD;
I think I asked before so apologies if so, can SEOW be used Human vs AI only? i.e. AI are the opposing force for the campaign.
cheers,
T
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Yes it can be used for human against AI only.
The "but" is that a human must plot the moves of the AI side.
(For advanced coders - and this has been done - a script can be written to
move AI in a series of patterned choices with random execution. The caveat is that it is feasible
only for a limited scale campaign , or the coding would be as difficult as putting together the campaign from scratch.)
I wouldn't have a clue how to do this unfortunately , but if you are interested , 4Shades at SEOWHQ is your man.
See the discussion thread here :
http://seowhq.net/seowhqforum/viewforum.php?f=51&sid=cf79eff3b64b34347c0bf4c1e95cb3bb
If you get SEOW up and running , and want someone to plot the enemy moves for you , let me know.
I would be able to arrange for myself or someone else to do it for you.
Kopfdorfer
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Good job Kopfdorfer!
You can attach my video here. Maybe it can help people to ovevercome initial tech setup. The second video, where i plan to actually make the campaign, will be done during the summer....i hope. We will probably fly that one on September.
About Human vs AI, true, it can be done on different ways. Scrypts, triggers, human planning of one or multiple missions in advance and combination of those. The best, of course, is human vs human scenario where it isn't just a flying circus, but strategy game also!
Cheers,
Thor
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Kopfdorfer and Thor;
thanks for the info. I have no problem plotting the moves of the "bad guys" and keeping it to myself when flying with the rest of the group.
As I mentioned in my PM Kopfdorfer, the install/setup looks really intimidating. Perhaps Thors video will help with that.
Is there a step-by-step instruction manual for install/setup? Did I miss that?
thanks again,
Tomoose
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Excelente!
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Here is Thor's Video Guide to setting up the SEOW System on your PC.
http://2ndvarp.net/showthread.php?4735-SEOW-video-guide-lessons
Kopfdorfer
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Well, it was going OK with the video (great job by Thor), but my XAMPP Control Panel, starts MySQL then immediately stops it with the following text in the window "...may be due to a blocked port, missing dependiencies, improper privileges, a crash, or a shutdown by another method." I have no idea what to do next.
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Still no joy (a couple of hours of messing around). Apache starts no probs. MySQL flashes a PID but no port (I know it's supposed to be 3306) and then stops. I've put a rule in the Windows Firewall to allow access to 3306 but still no joy.
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Some progress. Uninstalled XAMPP and re-installed on 'C' drive which apparently did the trick. I got as far as the SEOW "front page" on IE.
:)
UPDATE: Hour one of transferring SEDB74_reference. Hours to go, LOL.
BLUF: There's NO way I could have gotten this far without Thor's video. :)
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When you get it up and running you will be needing "Navicat" or something equivalent to allow editing in your database - and you will want to do this !
If you get that far and you want to go further , let me know and we can converse on Teamspeak.
Kopfdorfer
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something is not right. the SEDB74 ref file 100+mb according to Thor takes a few hours. i left it overnight (at least 12 hours) and this morning it still says at least a day to go and it was less than a quarter done. I stopped the process.
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Check and see if your Ref Database is up - set your MP location and try to open a map in the MP.
If you can , it likely means you were loading databases for each and every map
- this is fine ; it means you are equipped to run multiple simultaneous camapaigns !
What Thor didn't get to in his tutorial yet - he will in the next installment ,
is that most users enable one or two full databases at a time for the theatre of
the campaign(s) they are working on.
((I may not be correct as I have never gone through the entire process , but I suspect this is what you have done
- if you have the space it is not an issue. I hope Thor will chime in here with proper advice and not my conjecture.))
Kopfdorfer
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KD;
Ackd. Thor's video specifies going to the largest, "reference" file so perhaps that's a bit of a red herring.
I'll try it. If it doesn't work I'll just load one of the "specific" databases (e.g. Solomons or WF).
Tomoose
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No the Reference File is VERY important.
When you start to modify the Database for a given Campaign ,
you will need the "reference" IE Vanilla Database to compare to in case
of any technical difficulties due to self modification.
If I sound healthily cautious or even a bit paranoid -the latter more likely - it's
because my own experience in manipulation has required me to use the Reference DB to
troubleshoot and correct human errors - mine and mine alone.
Now , you are much more tech savvy that I am , but when you start to modify the SEDB for your
campaign - which you will want to do (I would bet my fortune on it) -
the reference DB will be essential.
Kopfdorfer
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KD;
I get your points about being able to modify the database etc but I think I'll have to give up on this. After over 12 hours (no exaggeration) using Heidi there's still only 39.7 MiB "loaded" of the 184Mb Reference file. That's insane. There's no way it should take literally days to load a file that size in this day and age.
I tried using the smallest file (Coral Sea) and the initial message on that was 4 hours and that is for a 3Mb file, again, wow! I haven't seen those kind of estimates since the '80's and dial-up modems LOL.
I freely admit I'm probably missing something. I'd love to play around with this as I can see that SEOW seems to go way beyond what DCG does but unless there's some method or step I'm missing I'm putting this down before I hurt myself!!! ;)
Win7
Intel Core i7 930 @ 2.8GHz
24 Gig RAM (16 Useable)
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There is a method to speed this up. Like i said i am using HeidiSQL. This is not the best software on the planet, but is simple for me and that is why i like it. When it comes to database initial loading where it need to create all the tables it is damn slow. Reference database is huge to create and it takes forever. The good thing is that you don't need it, after you have created it once, and it is just sitting there on your server until next major update which is once in 1-2years. If you are in a hurry to make it rolling, please use SQLyog 64bit program for initial load of databases. It is at least 10x faster.
Process:
1.Log to your sql server with it
2.Right click and create database ie. sedb74_reference
3.Right click on created database and select Import, Execute SQL script
4.Select the database
You will notice light speed comparing to Heidi. You can continue with SQLyog if you like it even after this, because it can do the same thing and more...only faster. For my taste in normal use Heidi is better, but it is a meter of taste:) Later when your campaign will need saving and loading of database with data inside, it will be matter of minutes not hours.
Cheers,
Thor
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Thor;
OK, I'll give it a shot, thanks for the suggestion.
I'll report back.
cheers,
Tomoose
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SUCCESS!!!
I would HIGHLY recommend "SQLyob Trial 64" instead of Heidi. I started the Reference loading, went for groceries and it was done by the time I got back (approx 1 hour). The Okinawa database was done in less than a minute.
Kudos Thor on your last minute org chart in MS Paint in your video, LOL. As I suspected it appears that SEOW is DCG on steroids (and much more). I'm exhausted now from following the video and setting things up so will have to pause before exploring further, LOL.
Thanks for your patience.
Tomoose
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UPDATE:
Probably getting ahead of myself here but when I try to initialize the campaign in SEDCS it is looking for an SEOW .mis template. Where do I find it?
Disregard that last sentence. I used a Guadalcanal template by 242 Sqn as a test. The campaign started OK (I guess) in that icons showed up on the MP etc (which I now have to learn how to use).
How do I stop/reset a campaign because I accidentally started this one using June 2000 as the start date, d'oh!!
I try to 'flush' the database but it's prompting me for a password which I apparently don't have ("password" and "admin" don't work).
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The default password for DB flush and Add Forces Tools is "penguin".
I am sure you can change it if you wish.
Kopfdorfer
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Kopfdorfer;
ackd and thanks. Sorry to be a pain. As mentioned I managed to initialize the Guadalcanal campaign by 242.
I can see some icons on the map which provide info when the cursor is over them, pretty cool. I tried to create a mission following the "Plotting an Air Mission" instructions from the wiki
but I don't get any list of waypoints after clicking the mission time as mentioned in the instructions....nothing happens after I select the mission time. I tried "immediate" as shown here and also an hour later but no joy. Clicking on the map does nothing except provide info when clicking on the existing unit icons shown here. Again, I'm probably getting ahead of myself or perhaps used the wrong template to test with.
(https://i.imgur.com/kmQVdQc.jpg)
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It looks to me that there are errors or just a script problem.
I am watching football match now..national team. I’ll explain later if I won’t be too drunk :-|
First check when you right click on the map do you get SEOW related commands. Go to Internet explorer-compatibility and add your server...it should be something like 127.0.0.1.
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No probs, LOL. Good luck to your team.
Quick update: I uninstalled IE 11 and went back to IE 8 went through the Compatibility process again but still no joy. I even disabled my anti-malware s/w but no difference.
Is there a "path" setting I should be looking at?
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Hi,
No need to return to ancient IE. IE11 is working just fine when you apply compatibility for your site.
Please look at this pictures, and it should be very clear.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/grkuifbu3/Capture1.jpg)
If right click on the map look like this, you are missing compatibility.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/406obzmnf/Untitled.jpg)
Go to internet explorer compatibility page and add your server. In my example i am using localhost....so, localhost need to be on the list. If it is127.0.0.1, or your own local IP address, what you are using, you need to add it to IE 11 compatibility list.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/9pmwvzfvf/Capture3.jpg)
and finally, when it is added, right click should give you this menues when you right click on the map and of cource you should see waypoints when you plan anything.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/suq65xhqj/Untitled4.jpg)
Enjoy
P.S. about your .miss question, this is what i will cover in the second video. Basically, this is what you do manually in full mission builder of the game to setup initial front line, units types, locations, numbers etc.
Cheers,
Thor
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Thor;
I've done all that yesterday as you've shown here but no joy. I'll give it another shot but I'm not optimistic.
Even after I've done this, it still shows (down at the very bottom left of the page "Done, but with errors on page"). There's obviously something wrong but I have no idea what.
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Same thing. I do get one error of an unrecognized object "rocket HoRo" but I don't think that has anything to do with the problem.
I've added both localhost and my local IP plus a couple of other IPs just to be sure but still no joy.
I found out how to switch on all the error messages for IE and I get this when loading the MP page..
(https://i.imgur.com/sIcgNgI.jpg)
It would appear to be a script problem. Everything loads OK up to and including the sector map. However, instead of the bottom left of the webpage showing simply the word "Done" I have the little yellow warning triangle symbol and the word "Done" which also indicates something hasn't loaded properly.
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I talked with a Java guru at work and he suggested I lower my IE security, at least to test. Now, however I can't get the database to initialize as I keep getting this:
SEDCS::Unknown Stationary unit type: ships.Ship$RwySteelLow. Check template compatibility with your HistorySFX Mod setting in the "Campaign Modes" tab.
The database will be flushed now.<p>
I checked the .mis template file and that ships object is NOT there. WTH?
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PROGRESS (lowering the Security settings via Internet Options apparently did the trick)...(although I'm still getting the "Unknown Stationary unit type..." error when trying to initialize)
(https://i.imgur.com/qOf13kj.jpg)
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Spoke a bit too soon. Almost there but..... LOL.
I loaded up Guadalcanal42, all the Slot sectors and the Western Front44 Sector. I can go into each of these sectors and get the proper drop down menus on right-click.
I tried to initialize a Guadalcanal42 Campaign using the Guadalcanal42 test template from the SEOW website but after initializing successfully and then going to the mission planner the proper right-click menu is no longer accessible and I get the usual Windows right-click drop down menu. I was shooting in the dark a bit as I don't know if the template I used is correct despite being Guadalcanal.
One point to note from my previous post regarding the missing ships object. On a hunch I went into the net/coop/SE folder where I had successfully generated missions while farting around with the missing menu. I deleted those missions because I suspected that the Mission Planner was looking at those missions and seeing the 109 'host' object which was causing initialization issues. I deleted the missions in that folder and bingo, I was able to successfully re-initialize a Guadalcanal campaign.
So all that to say, I've just about cracked it but will have to try another campaign template to verify if it's just the Guadalcanal that's messed me up or what.
cheers,
Tomoose
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Why don't you initialize a template on your own ?
You don't need 400 objects.
Make a mission in FMB on Westfront 44 with just a flight of aircraft for each side and a few objects and see how you get on.
Just a suggestion.
Kopfdorfer
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Kopfdorfer;
ackd, I was thinking along those lines too. I'll give it a shot.
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I wanted to check what is wrong and i initialized the very same .miss file for Guadalcanal.
First some error showed up and blocked MP planner.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/bdsq9uhg5/Capture1.jpg)
I did not waste time investigating and i just went to objectmissiondata table and deleted this gun.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/62dtp8q9h/Capture2.jpg)
MP was then unlocked and all units were visible in admin mode.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/w0hfvaybp/Capture3.jpg)
There were 40 missions in progress. Those are the units planned in template by designer. If you don't like the moves, just go to sedcs and click remove in progress. Do not use flush unless you want clean database from all stuff.
I've also tried to build and checked MP...all good
Cheers,
Thor
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Thor;
thanks for doing the investigation. I didn't think the "unknown rocket type...." message would prevent the MP from continuing so hadn't considered that.
Much appreciated. I wasn't planning on using the Guadalcanal campaign itself I was just using it as a test for installation/initialization.
To start, I was thinking of creating a simple mission template for example the Channel map (i.e. aircraft only) just to get a feel for the application etc.
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As I mentioned, I thought I'd start very simply by using the Channel map and a couple of Squadrons on either side of the Channel.
I was going into FMB and noticed there's more than one Channel map. Which one does SEOW use?
thanks.
Tomoose
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Channel 1940 = Can Channel 1940-41 ( Winter Summer depends on the month you set for your campaign - engine chooses automatically)
Channel Circus = Channel Circus (same as above)
English Channel Sector = Can Channel Beta Dogfight Map
Westfront 40 = GilB Westfront 40
Westfront 44 = GilB Westfront 44
For more detail see here :
http://seowhq.net/MP4public/Scripts/MP-Maps.php
Available at SEOWHQ/Full Sector List/Tools/Map Sector Tool
Note though , that this tool has not been updated to include the latest maps that have been captured.
Kopfdorfer
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Well another couple of hours sorting some issues out but finally got a Channel map up and running.
I used FMB to create a campaign template. Basically the Channel map with one flight of Hurricanes at West Malling and a flight of 109s at Audembert.
The database initialized and the appropriate menu comes up when I right click when in a Sector but...
1. Neither side shows any units when I select West Malling or Audembert, and
2. I can't create any missions (probably because I don't have any units).
3. The Channel40 (Canon) map I used to create my template is not the Channel40 map that is showing in the Sector views.
Obviously I have to RTFM in order to understand things better.
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Okay.
A few simple things to check that may affect your initialization attempt.
1) The Map in HSFX7 named "Channel 1940 beta" corresponds to "English Channel Sector" in SEOW.
Have you loaded the data for this map ? (Not the Reference Database file).
2) When you build your template (in FMB) , ensure that each fight has a "Landing" waypoint on the airfields where you wish them to start the campaign.
3) Ensure that any Sqdn Number selected is NOT Sqdn 4 in your aircraft properties tab.
SqdnNumbers 1,2,3 are ok. 4 is right out ( see Monty Python's and the Holy Grail re: The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch)
Flight number does not matter.
4) In the SEDCS under the "Campaign Modes" Tab , check the box entitled "Use Temporary Airfields".
You will get this ToMoose.
Kopfdorfer
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LOL
"...then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
1. Ackd. Yes, I created a specific database/data for the Channel40 (not the reference database file). I think I should have used the Channel40-41 map so will try that tonight. Although now that I think about it I don't think the Channel40 name colour was changed in the Sector List which it should have right?
2. Yeah, I did that (each flight has three waypoints terminating in the landing waypoint at the pertinent airfield).
3. The Sqn number I'll have to check. I believe I used the number one flight but will double-check.
4. Yup, did that as it seemed to make sense at the time.
I'll get there, as long as I don't screw something up en route LOL.
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SUCCESS...so far.
I was right about the map. I should have used the Channel40-41 map.
It's not immediately clear but on the right side are the waypoints for the mission.
I now have to seriously look at the SEOW documentation as I'm just guessing from here. I created a mission but when I "flew" it (sitting in the host 109) there was nothing.
There were some stationary planes at a couple of the airfields and a strip of metal runway (not related to the host 109) but nothing else (no other flying AI aircraft).
I also got an error message in SEDCS when trying to "analyze" the mission, telling me log.lst was being used by another application but that isn't a showstopper and is no doubt from me not using the various elements correctly.
(https://i.imgur.com/VH3x12x.jpg)
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Host seat coordinates are usualy away from the main action area and that is why there is nothing there.. System creates one runuway with host(server) aircraft sitting there. It does help with fps when you have tons of units and you need server computer to use every single MHz on AI allover the map.
Stop the game completely to get rid of the log.lst error.
So, if you have crated mission right (comit flights after waypoints, and you see them on scheduel flight list in upper left corner), you don't have to use host aircraft. You can take any other plane or gunner position. Just remember that when you host mission for others, you leave server online even if you die for your mission planned duration.
Some tech stuff off topic:
If you really put huge number of units and set them on the move, problems could start. When the game start to have "time overflow" (see the console), than AI units start to do strange things like warping, flying sideways, flying trough terrain etc. But on the modern computers (i7 4GHz+) you can host and fly no problem. It depends on a lot of stuff and the tehnics ini you make for the campaign. I've made million tests on that metter and i can tell you that if you have <2500 nstationaries, <30barrages, < 100 ground moves, <80 airplanes in the air, you are safe to host and fly on modern 4GHz+ machines.
If you create monsters, like me because i can not resist, than you need separate server with minimal graphics settings in the window and as fastes CPU you can have. My maximum on i7 OC to 4.7GHz was 3800 nstationaries, 50 triggers, 40barrages, 150 ground moves and 150 planes in the air. Fps on machine like that was ~40fps at the beginning of the mission when it is the most intense. It is possible to add even more, but is recommended to leave safe margin in case of sudden fps drop.
I will explain those tips and trics in my third video.
Cheers,
Thor
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Thor;
I understand the host seat location aspect. What I meant was that using Ctrl-F2 and Shift-F2 to cycle through views during the mission there were no other aircraft flying or taking off...nothing. That being said, the host seat was the only none AI aircraft but I still should have seen the other planes.
I don't plan on huge numbers so the server/host shouldn't be a problem. Our little group is currently using DCG for our online coop campaign (WF44). Every mission averages 50+ aircraft and lots of ground objects. We take turns hosting (and playing). The only issue I've noticed in HSFX online is when the heavy bombers drop their bombs and the explosions on the ground cause a slight stutter but apart from that no issues at all.
I'm interested in using SEOW as it looks like a much more powerful concept than DCG and while DCG auto-generates missions they can become quite repetitive (e.g. same ground-attack mission to the same location for four or five missions in a row). I think SEOW will provide much more flexibility and realism. That being said I'm also looking at how it can be used for online coop against only AI (as we are doing at the moment with DCG). I have some studying to do.
Thanks again for your set up video. It really helped. My one recommendation would be that you suggest alternatives to Heidi. SQLYog took minutes to do what Heidi does in hours (I realize that Heidi is much more aggressive in checking the data transfer etc and that is why it is slower). If you have a second video can you post the link?
thanks,
Tomoose
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Slowly getting there.
Thor/Kopfdorfer;
I appreciate your patience with a noob. I set up a very simple Battle of Britain campaign template using the Channel40-41 map. As I mentioned in a PM to Kopfdorfer, after building the mission and running it in IL2 I was only getting the 109 'host' seat with no other aircraft. I went back to my campaign template and changed one of the Hurricane flights to non-AI.
I reset and re-initialized and created a mission etc and built the mission in DCS then went in to IL2 and ran it. I was able to select one of the Hurricanes as per normal however, again, none of the other flights were in the mission (I had tasked the 3 Hurricane flights with simple patrol flights all starting at the same time). I pulled my Hurricane off to the side and let the mission run anyway as I wanted to check the radar function...first impression? Pretty bloody cool!!! :)
As you can see here, the radar stations are marked clearly and the flight is being tracked. That part seems to be working like a charm.
Is it possible to zoom in using the radar? Probably not, but thought I'd ask.
(https://i.imgur.com/1UHhgcE.jpg)
I'm not sure why the other flights aren't showing up so I'll keep plugging away at it but if you have suggestions I'd appreciate it.
One other thing I'd like to do is to task missions to both sides (essentially run a campaign in "god mode" so to speak). I tried to task the German side for a bombing mission across the Channel but despite being in the taskable unit list I couldn't task them.
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I am still confused :D
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Video #2 is not done yet.
Not enough info to solve this. Please login as admin. Open whole sector map. Make the plans for both sides flights. Than make a print screen of the whole map where we can see on the left upper corner that the flights are scheduled and the time. Than build the mission and upload mission file here....or make the print screen of the mission file where we can see are wings created or not created.
thanks
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Here's a screenshot of the planned missions. A single 110 conducting a recce over Folkestone and a flight of Hurricanes doing a CAP over Folkestone area.
As you can see on the left both missions are there. Neither of the missions are AI-only. I selected the "Secret" box for both because if I don't then I don't get ANY human flights regardless of the fact that none of the flights are AI-only.
(https://i.imgur.com/4Zchd0h.jpg)
When I "build" the mission with DCS I get the "...1 Human flight available..." message once the .mis is created and when I check the created .mis file I get this;
[MAIN]
MAP CAN_EnglishChannel/1940load.ini
TIME 14.0
CloudType 1
CloudHeight 2372.0
[SEASON]
Year 1940
Month 6
Day 15
[WEATHER]
WindDirection 49.0
WindSpeed 1.0
Gust 8
Turbulence 3
[Wing]
g0133
g0132
gb0110
[g0133]
Planes 1
Skill 0
Class air.BF_109Z
Fuel 0
weapons none
[g0133_Way]
TAKEOFF -40000.00 -40000.00 0 0 0_Static 0 &1
NORMFLY -30000.00 -40000.00 2500.00 250.00 &1
[g0132]
Planes 1
OnlyAI 1
Skill 0
skin0 radar.bmp
Class air.RadarControlChainHome
Fuel 100
weapons none
[g0132_Way]
NORMFLY -40000.00 -40000.00 5500.00 350.00 &1
NORMFLY -30000.00 -40000.00 5500.00 350.00 &1
NORMFLY 460000.00 -40000.00 5500.00 350.00 &1
NORMFLY -40000.00 -40000.00 5500.00 350.00 &1
NORMFLY 460000.00 -40000.00 5500.00 350.00 &1
NORMFLY -40000.00 -40000.00 5500.00 350.00 &1
[gb0110]
Planes 4
OnlyAI 1
Skill 2
Class air.HurricaneMkIIa
Fuel 30
weapons default
[gb0110_Way]
TAKEOFF 193169.91 243321.28 0.00 0 &0
NORMFLY 185325.00 237420.00 500.00 232.00 &0
NORMFLY 179156.00 228414.00 1000.00 232.00 &0
NORMFLY 192468.00 229225.00 2000.00 232.00 &0
NORMFLY_404 202208.00 241071.00 2000.00 232.00 &0
TRIGGERS 999 10 60 7 0
NORMFLY 200909.00 253728.00 2000.00 232.00 &0
NORMFLY 187029.00 254134.00 1000.00 232.00 &0
NORMFLY 190682.00 249266.00 500.00 232.00 &0
LANDING 192420.77 244214.73 0.00 0 &0
[Chiefs]
I didn't copy all the .mis. After the [Chiefs] is the usual NStationary info etc. I am using the MP as 'admin' so I assume I have "control" of both sides but maybe that's part of the problem...no idea.
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UPDATE;
again, success......sort of. Until now I had given CAP and GROUND ATTACK orders at a given waypoint of each flight (i.e. a CAP for the Brits over Dover and a Ground Attack for the Germans over Dover). I'm not sure if that was messing things up but just to be sure, this time around I didn't do anything specific, just takeoff-fly-land for both sides. After getting DCS to build the mission it told me there were two Human flights available and when checking the created .mis file there was indeed two flights one Brit, the other German. I was pretty happy, LOL.
I cranked up the mission but the only option for me was the 109 'host' there were no other aircraft I could select to fly. I assume that's because I had the 109 'host' option selected in DCS.
Regardless I started the mission and sure enough there was a 110 flying and a flight of Hurricanes taking off. I was also able to follow the mission progress on the radar. Again, very cool.
That being said I tried to create another mission (after flushing the database) and got nowhere as I got the message "...no human flights available..." when there are no AI-specific flights anyway.
Confused. ;)
The "secret" box is confusing as I'm not sure if that is causing the issue or not but I haven't found an explanation for what it does yet.
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Secret box means that planes will be AI and they will not be on the list available for players.
If you have selected coopmod in SEDCS, than you need to use B_ or R_ in front of your callsign (middle column) to see plane slots. For the test, open your mission file in notepad and remove COOP Mod on the botton...save than load the mission. You will see your slots.
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I'm not sure what you mean by Coop mod in SEDCS as I don't see any option that mentions coop, just the host option or SP option.
Middle column of my pilot name? You lost me.
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Under the Files/Misc Tab in the SEDCS ,
Under the SEOW Missions Folder (and for Download) Line , there are 2 check boxes.
The second one is "Append Coop Mod Slot directives to mission file".
I believe this is what Thor is referring to.
This is so a player does not see what aircraft the other side is flying for a given mission.
You only see the aircraft YOUR ARMY has available.
Kopfdorfer