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### AuthorTopic: New FFB Joystick hope  (Read 514 times)

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#### gprr

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##### New FFB Joystick hope
« on: October 08, 2019, 01:45:42 PM »

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 02:43:09 AM »

Thanks for the hope!!
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#### Chrisang

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2019, 05:50:29 AM »

Finally ! It would be the right time

I'm tired with all toys like thrusmaters, saitek, plenty of needless buttons. Not to mention programmable curves beyond understanding.
They all good only for modern fly by wire aircrafts.

IMHO, all you need is a joystick with the following :
- realistic FFB (the worst is unquestionably the G940)
- No hard point when centered,
- 3 thumb wheels for trims (1 for each axis)
- Trims must displace the neutral point like in real. Btw it's the only purpose of a trim. To null the effort on command. No more no less.
- 2 or 3 clicks for weapons
- A coolie hat for people who hasn't discover TIR already.

And that's all.
All the rest is bullshit.

Not about to leave my Microsoft FFB2. Not panacea since no trim to displace the neutral point but better than nothing.

My 2 cents...
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#### PO_MAK_249RIP

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2019, 06:52:44 AM »

Have always regretted selling my MSFFB😢
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#### barrett_g

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2019, 04:59:10 AM »

In the meantime couldn’t you just buy a used Microsoft FFB joystick?  I’ve seen them on eBay.  How hard are they to fix once they wear out?
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#### JohannDaart

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2019, 12:30:02 PM »

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#### sixstrings

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2019, 08:47:19 AM »

What about the Gladiator ? That may be my next stick... Looks tough and simple to use. Wish it had FFB though...
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#### SAS~Anto

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 02:27:55 AM »

Cheers for the share and really great watch. Also hello to many of you haven't spoken to in a while.

Having flown a variety of aircraft and a variety of simulators, this video is pretty on the money however it does glance over a few things. First, whilst Class D simulators are incredibly realistic, it is in theory much easier to simulate these big birds than a combat jet or light aircraft. They are all fly by wire and hence the control systems do not feed back aerodynamic forces in the same as a light aircraft. In addition, the G forces pulled are tiny so the motion platforms are more than adequate to give that motion effect. They mention how car racing sims FFB is wide-spread - it is a larger market and FFB for cars is much simpler!

I have also been in a full motion F-15 simulator inside a centrifuge which could pull up to 12G. It was incredibly realistic though there was a ~500msec delay between initiating the a manoeuvre and the G-force kicking in. F-15s though use a force sensing stick and hence do not have need for force feedback. Lol and unless you have a few million up your sleeve to build a centrifuge, it is not possible to simulate such G forces! A big disadvantage of it however was due to circular motion, any slight out of plane head movement would induce the coriolis effect, result in potential disorientation and motion sickness - something that can happen in real life but occurred much easier in the sim. Conversely when I have tried VR, I've often gotten motion sick as my body and vestibular system are expecting a G force that never occurs!!

For vintage and light aircraft, being direct control, the development of force feedback is needed for simulator to be realistic. It isn't as simple as force increasing with airspeed and the programming needs to be specific for each aircraft type. For example, whilst aerodynamic forces do increase with speed, angle of attack and aircraft configuration will alter the forces needed to make a control input. A well trimmed aircraft may need minimal force to alter pitch vs that which is poorly trimmed. For high wing aircraft (e.g. Cessna 100 & 200 series), deploying full flaps decreases amount of propellor slip stream over tailplane, which alter pitch and rudder effectiveness and is particularly noticeable at low airspeed.

Personally I've always been a fan of FFB though even in the FFB2, Saiteks and G940 - it still had a long way to go with programming. I'm curious what will come out of the above venture.
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#### JohannDaart

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##### Re: New FFB Joystick hope
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 07:31:11 AM »

Well, I found the reason why FFB sticks are so rare and weren't present in the last decade: