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Author Topic: Friction Issues with maps in BAT  (Read 356 times)

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K5083

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Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« on: September 17, 2019, 05:36:14 AM »

Hi.  I'm a relatively new BAT user and I have been exploring some of the maps that come with the standard install.  I discovered that the airfields in many of the maps are unusable because the turf is so bumpy that it breaks your plane when it goes any faster than about 30 mph.  Examples would be Klaus109's Southern Germany maps and Lynx23's Central Europe maps in the Central Europe folder.

Knowing that the maps couldn't have been designed this way originally, I looked into the threads for the original standalone maps.  For example, Klaus109's Sued_Germany_crew.  I downloaded these but haven't installed them for BAT yet, because I haven't figured out how.  What I noticed when I downloaded this map is that it has a folder, 00_Zuti_Friction_STD_410.

Friction seemed to have something to do with the issues with these maps, so I searched threads and learned about the Zuti Friction mod, which apparently is how these maps prepared the turf on the airfields so you can operate from them.  I also read that the Zuti Friction mod didn't work with CUP.  Would I be correct in assuming that it doesn't work with BAT either?  And therefore that no map in BAT that originally employed the Zuti friction mod has usable turf airfields?

If I'm right, is there a fix?  Apart from downloading the airfields as stand-alones, modding them so that the turf is flattened in some other way, and then installing them as extra maps?

Thanks for any insights.

August
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 08:40:30 AM »

The problem is on your end most likely,  you are driving around on an area that's not defined as taxi way or runway by the map maker.
This is not an issue and specifically not a BAT issue.

Maybe you have found one particularly odd airfield, but generally, that map is in BAT as it is available here on SAS so no other installation would be helping. Do you have test missions to look at?
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K5083

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 02:09:25 PM »

It is an issue with every airfield that I have tried on the relevant maps.  In many cases, although there are takeoff and landing points assigned for mission builders. the airfields should permit takeoffs and landings anywhere in the turf area in any convenient direction.  That is how maps not affected by this issue work.  However, in the problematic maps, I have also tried using the paths implied by the takeoff and landing points, and it makes no difference.  There are some airfields where turf runways are visibly marked out over the regular turf, and those runways work fine.  Paved areas also work fine. However, those are scarce on some maps.  For example, in Lynx23's Central Europe map, the only spot on the entire map that I have found where it is safe to takeoff or land is on the perimeter track around the field east of Munich. 

I got my information about Zuti's friction mod being incompatible with CUP and 4.12 from this thread:  https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=49604.0

I assume that the incompatibility mentioned there was inherited by BAT, given its lineage.  The behavior I'm seeing matches what is described in that thread.

As you can see, the thread above links to a fix by tbauchot where a mission builder can overlay large transparent plates to create a usable surface again.  I'll be trying that out tonight.  If I can fix it that way, I'll just plate all the airfields in my favorite maps, save the resulting mission, and use that as a basis to build any future missions.

August






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vonofterdingen

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2019, 03:08:26 PM »

Yes, the info in that thread will help you make "bumpy" airfields more usable. I still use that technique occasionally in some maps today with BAT and VP Modpack. Tbauchot and Uzin taught me to use it but I would be happy to help you if you have any questions or run into problems.

One tip: when you are laying down your plates go to the View tab in the FMS and make Spawn Points visible so that you cover all the taxi paths.
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K5083

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 04:02:08 PM »

Thank you!  I'm pretty much a noob with FMB, have just stuck to simple missions, and won't even be able to look for these plates in the FMB menus until after I get the kids to bed tonight.  I saw a trick where you can make them visible during the FMB process and then change them to transparent by directly editing the mission files.  There's a good chance I will take you up on your offer of help. 

August
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vonofterdingen

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 05:36:43 PM »

Glad to help. Placing them when they are invisible is a fool's errand, so Tbauchot's mod is very helpful. Let me know what map you are modifying and I will post an example .mis file with some smoothed runways.
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K5083

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 08:04:23 PM »

Hi Von,

Well, as predicted, I need some help.  I downloaded Thierry's mod. Put it into my BATMODS folder.  Activated it in JSGME.  Went into FMB and placed a Blank Field Plate, but it wasn't visible.

I tried creating a #WAW3 folder inside the mod's folder in BATMODS and copying the mod files into that, noting that other mods have this file structure.  So now the location of the mod is BATMODS\!!!!!!!!!!001A_Visibles_blank_plates\#WAW3\[mod files in 3do folder].

Still no luck.

Can you share with me where you put the mod to make JSGME activate it properly?

Thanks,

August
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vonofterdingen

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2019, 11:31:16 PM »

I am on my tablet now rather than the computer.  I can probably figure out the  JSGME syntax tomorrow but I  don't use that. I just put the mod in the #WAW folder and put the character "-" (a dash) in front  of the name. To activate the mod remove the dash. If this is not clear I can provide some screen shots.

Your  mistake was in the file structure. The file "!!!...blank_plates..." needs to be directly under \#WAW3. Again if I have been unclear let me know and I will post some screens when I am at my desktop.
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 12:05:20 AM »

I now see the point, seems like a map build issue. Unless such maps are reworked (which is unlikely for some old material....) you'd need workarounds for a mission to be built.

I'd approach such a thing using the big static ship auxiliary airfield / runway. I've done so before to create completely new airfields in campaigns, my Ethiopian Jet campaign for example.

vonofterdingen writes
Quote
Initially I was working with the Static Ship Test Runways. They work, but the result is immersion-killing for me, in that the pilot must use chocks and the aircraft are “popped” into position for each takeoff as if they were on an aircraft carrier. It may work for some but I prefer Tbauchot’s method.

This can be done differently.
In 4.12 we have Taxi to takeoff. Use this and do not "set" the takeoff to the auxiliary runway at all. Then the planes will simply spawn as you set them up (spaced in a row, no chocks, no pop) and taxi to wherever you set your points. You might only need the runway to set the AI to land.
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K5083

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2019, 06:09:09 AM »

Wow Von, with your info, that was so easy!  I only had time before work to fix one field, but it worked fine. There was still a bumpy patch at first, I guess the terrain wasn’t completely flat, but that seems to be fixed by slapping an additional plate down on the bumpy patch (at a slightly higher elevation I guess). It was actually pretty fun fast-taxiing my 190 around the field debugging it. I have just about mastered Tokyo drifting in a 190.

Vamp, I will experiment with the object you suggested tonight.. What are its visual properties? I wonder if the mod we are talking about, which seems to set the “blank” color to visible for a number of existing objects, also will work on it.

August
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2019, 06:35:52 AM »

there are several "auxiliary airstrips" in different sizes.  Some are visible concrete or plates runways, some are "red transparent" in FMB but completely invisible when playing the mission! These are the ones I mean. You can place the big one on any smooth surface and build a whole new airfield on it if you want.

in FMB:


playing the mission:

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K5083

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Re: Friction Issues with maps in BAT
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2019, 07:36:17 AM »

Very cool.  I see why you'd go that route.  Those look perfect.

I'll try to fix an entire map tonight or in the next few days.  Happy to post the resulting "missions" once the fields are working, for others to use as a mission/campaign starting point.

If there are missions out there for these old maps (I don't even know if there are!) that are now broken because of this issue, I assume the plates could be copied and pasted out of my .mis files to maybe get them working again.

August
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