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Author Topic: Request for a Dukla-Prešov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)  (Read 498 times)

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Piotrek1

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Map of Dukla-Prešov Operation (Battle for the Dukla Pass)



http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/Military_dukla_pass.htm (eng)
https://www.dukla1944.com/udalosti/boje-mistniho-vyznamu-a-zaujeti-obrany-na-ondave-29-10-30-11-1944/  (sk)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Dukla_Pass
In my opinion, the battle for the Dukla Pass was one of the biggest battles of WWII, unfortunately, rarely mentioned today,
although it was mainly a battle of armoured troops and infantry, in its initial phase and also during its duration a lot of air force was used.
There were not rather spectacular air battles here, but  dogfights also took place over the Carpathian sky. 
I think that if it had been created, it would have been a great map, meeting the needs of many Sturmovik users including me.

map of Dukla and surrounding areas (in Russian) 137mb!:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iZuybFVarIb2DtELnFiy7DA0JBr9hyi-/view?usp=sharing

map of the Polish-Slovak borderland (German map) 438mb!:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1remnLSm3VEYZTyLaWwbAsUNc_YVvbJIu/view?usp=sharing

The Dukla-Presov Operation (also known as the Carpathian-Dukla Operation, the Battle of the Dukla Pass, the Dukla Offensive, etc.) is a major military operation of the Red Army in September and October 1944 near the Dukla Pass, from the vicinity of Dukla near Krosno in the north to Prešov in Slovakia in the south, from the vicinity of Polan in the west to the vicinity of the Lupkowska Pass in the east.

From the dawn of 8 September  to 30 November , 1944, this area became a place of fighting and burial of about 99 thousand Red Army soldiers, mainly Ukrainians, Slovaks and German soldiers. Losses of Soviet troops amounted to about 123 000 killed, wounded and missing. The Czechoslovak troops lost about 6500 soldiers, while German and Hungarian losses are estimated at almost 70 000 people. The Dukla Operation was one of the bloodiest episodes of World War II on Polish soil, and one of the battlefields near Chyrowa, where a bloody armored battle took place, was called the "Valley of Death".
The German command attracted considerable forces and strengthened the area, creating the so-called "Karpatenfestung" (see the Arpad Line). German troops had 18 divisions, including 3 armoured ones (in total about 100 thousand soldiers), 350 tanks and 2000 cannons. Although the tanks of the Red Army reached Korczyna and the suburb of Krosno on 22 July 1944, the front stopped north of the city. The Germans had time until September to man the hills and hare favorable positions.



Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

More comprehensive info:

The Battle of the Dukla Pass, also known as the Dukla / Carpatho-Dukla / Rzeszów-Dukla / Dukla-Prešov Offensive was the scene of bitterly contested battle for the Dukla Pass (borderland between Poland and Slovakia) on the Eastern Front of World War II between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in September–October 1944. It was part of the Soviet East Carpathian Strategic Offensive that also included the Carpathian-Uzhgorod Offensive. The operation's primary goal to provide support for the Slovaks was not achieved, though it concluded the full liberation of the Ukraine in its modern borders by the occupation of the Subcarpathian region as a territory of the former Carpatho-Ukraine.


The main goal of the Operation was to capture the town of Prešov at the territory of Slovakia within 5 days and this manner to help the fighters of Slovak National Uprising which began at the territory of Slovakia on 29 th August 1944 (more information in the section “Facts about Slovak National Uprising”).

After sharp bombardment the first wave of attack was focused to capture the town of Krosno but this goal was not achieved which caused a lot of following difficulties on the side of Allied units. Soviet and Czechoslovak forces advanced toward first German defense position established on the hills near of villages Wrocanka and Machnówka where took place the fist serious combat with German forces. Especially, the 3 rd Czechoslovak Infantry Brigade suffered serious casualties caused by counter-attacking German infantry and tank units.

Moreover, one of the biggest clashes of the Operation happened around and on Hill 534 in the northwest from the town of Dukla . This hill had big strategic value for both sides involved in the Operation. The battle to capture this hill lasted from 10 th September to 20 th September 1944 . During these days the hill changed its “owners” more than 20 times. On 20 th September 1944 Germans retreated to the town of Dukla . The next strategic point of German defense was Hill 694 “Hyrowa Hora”.

1 st Czechoslovak Infantry Brigade supported by 4 tanks of
1 st Czechoslovak Tank Brigade in order to capture this hill carried out marvelous attack on 22 nd September 1944 with a positive result. Germans were surprised attacking tanks because their usage was not expected in terms of a severe terrain. The town of Dukla was seized on 21 st September 1944 by 3 rd Czechoslovak Infantry Brigade supported by tanks of 4 th Soviet Guard Tank Corps and 140 th Soviet Infantry Division on the left flank.
After a short rest and reorganization of Allied troops the Operation continued by the attack straightforward to the former Czechoslovak State Border. The combat to seize the Dukla´s Pass directly at the former state border began on 27 th September 1944 . At the state border Germans built up the second defense position with many of trenches, wooden bunkers, minefields and obstacles against infantry, armored vehicles and tanks. The state border and Dukla´s Pass was captured on 6 th October 1944 .

From the state border German units retreated to the third defense position which was established 6 kilometers in the south behind the state border with the centre of defense on Hill 532 “Obšár”. This defense position was prepared the best way within the Operation with many of wooden bunkers and machine guns´ pillboxes and foxholes. German artillery batteries were very effective used because their spotters were dressed in civil clothes equipped the radio and they were infiltrated in local population living in the small villages near Dukla´s Pass. All roads and paths were heavily mined. During this Operation in the fist time of history WWII were massively used German anti-tanks weapons famous under the name “Panzerfaust” and “Panzerschreck”.
old photo:
http://www.draganowa.info/Galerie%20zdjec/galeria%202.htm
http://glojsce.pl/historia.php
The valley of death today:
http://glojsce.pl/galeria.php
The battle to capture Hill 532 “Obšár” started as soon as Allied forces crossed the state border. The Operation finished on 28 th October 1944 bellow the summit of Hill 532 “Obšár” because of Slovak National Uprising failed. The hill was definitively secured as late as on 25 th November 1944 , too late.
Because of the vastness of the subject I have only included a general outline here, more information can be found here:
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/210915-battle-of-the-dukla-pass/&

Thanks for reading,
Greetings,
Piotrek
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Mixx

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Preszov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 04:38:14 PM »

Thank! I learned a lot of interesting things for myself.
Very interesting Slovenian sites
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Uzin

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Preszov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 05:20:07 PM »

What about this map:



Btw, this is default Lvov map.
In the south part it covers also Uzhgorod, and, what is especially important , Perechin, the small city where I was born. ;)
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Piotrek1

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Preszov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 04:51:26 AM »

Hello guys,

@   Mixx
Thank! I learned a lot of interesting things for myself.
Very interesting Slovenian sites
You're welcome,  Mixx.  :)

@ Uzin,
This map can be the basis (maybe it would be enough to just populate it?), it is even polonized version, it is a pity that the western part of the map is poorly populated.
There are no villages on it, such as Łężany, where there was a very important German airport, as well as many towns and villages on the Slovak side, which were also important for the Dukla-Prešov operation.
Before the war, the vicinity of Krosno up to pre-war Styj and Sambor was very rich in oil, so there were many oil mines and pumpjacks.

btw
An interesting fact is that the airport in Krosno was one of the few places where He-111Z was tested.
Near Krosno, the German army had two "Wurzburg" type radiolocation stations.

Have you ever visited your hometown, the place where the house stood, etc.? Podkarpacie - Zakarpacie is a beautiful places, it's a pity that the tourist base here is so poorly developed.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Greetings,
Piotrek
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Uzin

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Preszov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 07:18:47 AM »

"Have you ever visited your hometown, the place where the house stood, etc.? "
Yes, in 1957, then in 1983.(Born in 1941.)

The map you suggest worth it, but I am now engaged by two other huge projects.
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Piotrek1

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Preszov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2019, 07:43:17 AM »

Thank you for your answer, who knows, maybe in the future will manage to introduce such a map into the game.

Best regards,
Piotrek
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Dimlee

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Preszov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 02:10:13 PM »


In the south part it covers also Uzhgorod, and, what is especially important , Peretchin, the small city where I was born. ;)

Several years ago I planned to visit Perechin for negotiations with local chemical plant. But my buyer's priorities changed and I cancelled the trip.
Still have to go there some day. Need to expand my knowledge of this part of Karpathians.
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Piotrek1

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Prešov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 02:56:05 PM »

It is said that whoever will visit to the Carpathian will surely come back here again, you can meet here many interesting objects one of them is the "White Elephant" astronomical and meteorogical observatory, a little bit distant from the area that you mentioned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pip_Ivan_(Chornohora)
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%96%D0%BF_%D0%86%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD_(%D0%A7%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0)#/media/File:Pip_Ivan_Chornogirskij-1.jpg
Greetings,
Piotrek
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Dimlee

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Prešov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2019, 01:42:45 PM »

Pip Ivan, right...
My daughter once camped for the night there. I certainly have to go as well, otherwise I'm not a good Dad.  8)
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Piotrek1

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Prešov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2019, 02:12:37 PM »

a little isolated place, but sometimes that's the point. :P
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CzechTexan

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Prešov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2019, 03:13:59 PM »

The Lvov map is not good enough to represent the battle of Dukla.  Most important is that the area for the battle is at the extreme western edge of the Lvov map.  There must be more land area added to the map, extending westward.  The best map would be to include the area west of Lvov and westward all the way to the Slovakia map so that it will have all of eastern Slovakia which is missing from Slovakia map.

Second most important is having more realistic geography than the Lvov map.  Many years ago I asked the developers about having a more realistic Lvov map for the Dukla region.  The response was that the satellite data was very poor but that's all that was available at that time.

So, many years later, we do have better satellite data.  Mountains and hills can be more realistically represented.  On the maps pictured above, you cannot really appreciate the terrain because it all looks flat.  In real life, you can see the whole region is covered in mountains, hills, and valleys and the battle can be more appreciated.

Some day there will be a map of Eastern Slovakia.  I'm not the one to make it though.  :-|
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Piotrek1

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Re: Request for a Dukla-Prešov map operation (Battle of the Dukla Pass)
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2019, 04:07:27 PM »

Hi CzechTexan, When it comes to creating maps, I am a complete layman :-[ in this subject, so Thank You for your explanations, I hope that one of the map makers will decide to create such a map one day.
Best regards,
Piotrek
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