Special Aircraft Service

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Some questions!  (Read 1578 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Lythronax

  • Skinner
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
Some questions!
« on: May 27, 2018, 04:46:03 PM »

So, I've been planning for a while to create a completely new base Spitfire model - more accurate and of a higher poly count than the two Spitfire model types in game, from which I could, over time, create a revamped and simplified Spitfire family with even more variants. I've done extensive research and have acquired all the blueprints I'll need, and I have vague experience of fiddling about with GMAX in the past.

By the end of the year, I hope to have at least made a start on a decent Spitfire Mk. I. But before all this, where do you guys think I should begin?

I have:
  • GMAX, and some of the relevant plugins
  • Blueprints/Plans of all major Marks of Spit (although minor things like wheel struts, windscreens and propellers I need to find)
  • An artistic background with a good grasp of skinning and digital art, and some modelling experience

Is 3ds Max 5.1 (which I think is abandonware and available for free) a better choice than GMAX? I've heard GMAX has some limitations.

Would using either programme to import and make edits to existing models be helpful and good practice?

I'm still quite young (in my teens in fact), and I'm not hampered down by school/exams/job until August. So I have several months to put some serious hours and effort into getting to grips with a suitable programme (building on the experience I already have) and at least make a decent start. I'm well aware of how much work is needed to create a new model, but I have the time and determination if anything else.

I do hope I haven't come across as ignorant, but a point in the right direction would be a great deal of help :) !
Logged

SAS~GJE52

  • Editor
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5147
  • Orchard Studios
Re: Some questions!
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 08:14:48 PM »

I know this will sound like a damper but you have to appreciate the size of the thing you are thinking about taking on .. There is a good reason why there are not many 3d guys who build from scratch here. 

Creating an IL2 compatible aircraft model is a huge task not a 5 minute job. I have lost count of the number of posts like this over the years. Guys bite of more than they can chew, lose interest and fade away. I always suggest that it is best to start with a smaller/single mesh object, learn the ropes and progress. To succeed you will need skill, enthusiasm and stamina.

Firstly, it is not just one model, it is a considerable number of them. There are also a number of techniques and tricks that you need to master, plus the fact that IL2 has a nasty way of dealing with mesh junctions and needs to be "tricked" into shading correctly.

I would suggest that you study the modders bible - it is available here IIRC - I will try and add the link later - as it explains a lot about what is involved. As a student you will be able to download a free educational version of the latest version of 3ds max. Older versions are not compatible with some of the tools. This is the best 3d creation programme and it should be the first thing you do. There are a number of excellent tutorials on you tube showing how to model aircraft. Watch them and learn.

To get an overview of the basic import process, look here :

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,10384.0.html  

There is a wealth of information here at SAS that you need to take the time to browse and understand .. before you can even begin to know the questions you need to ask...  ;)



G;
Logged
Do not criticise a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes...  Then you can call him what you like, as you have his shoes ... and he is a mile away......

WxTech

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5531
Re: Some questions!
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2018, 04:21:47 PM »

In my (perhaps not so humble ;) ) opinion the cockpit is where we should devote more attention. Well, from the standpoint of a sim pilot, and not a movie maker, anyway.

By concentrating on the 'pit, you bypass an awful lot of time-eating issues with the external model such as smoothing caps, hooks, LODs, etc. I really think the best gain-to-effort ratio (at least as a starting project) would derive from improving cockpits. I've gotten a couple of requests to tackle the Spit 'pit, but other 'pits are currently on my radar. I'm sure you'd get lots of praise were you to take this on.

You start with an SFS extractor utility to get all the cockpit files, and a mesh converter to render the mesh binaries into readable ASCII. How you proceed from there depends on the tools you use. I get by with a spreadsheet for the 3-D modeling and Photoshop for texture work. A very slow way to go about it, but I've gotten to understand the underlying fundamentals much better thereby. For example, I compute the surface normals (which define lighting and shading) myself, knowing the trigonometric framework (such that the sum of the squares of the three vector components always add to make 1.)

As pointed out, starting a full plane from scratch in a first time effort is a heck of a lot more than a few weeks' project. I imagine you'll be at it for perhaps a full year, and that's with a full day's work every week in that interval. Just be aware of the magnitude of the work involved. Hence my recommendation to take on a less ambitious--but extremely worthwhile--project...

Good luck, and hoping to see the fruit of your efforts!
Logged
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Hyman Rickover (but probably predating his use.)

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5948
Re: Some questions!
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 10:05:07 AM »

My Lysander took something like six years, I am sure I should have taken the advice that Glynn and others surely gave me, I got there finally but even now certain elements are not complete. ;)

Building from scratch is a huge undertaking and until you start along the road you do not realise just how big and time consuming it can be.

A few suggestions:

Make a few simple objects for map use first, find KevinP's tutorials, they are very good.

There are various aircraft that have been turned into trainers, try one of those, Hurricane, 109, 190 and Spitfire.  For those you have the bulk of the overall aircraft already made and depending on where the second seat was you could get away with just doing the CF_D0, in some instances it might need the Tail1_D0 as well.

Find things made by others for different games or fun and maybe import them, vehicles and buildings but even full aircraft that way the model is built for you.

Many aircraft in game still use cockpits from other aircraft, maybe as a early step try retaining the instruments and controls but replace the CF_D0 and canopy and any other parts you like with those from the aircraft model itself to bring it nearer to the actual model.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged

vpmedia

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6652
  • www.vpmedia.hu/il2
    • VPMEDIA SKINS
Re: Some questions!
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 10:35:42 AM »

They got a Spit Mk.1 3d upgrade at Freemodding iirc.

Lythronax

  • Skinner
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
Re: Some questions!
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 11:23:29 AM »

Thank you all for the feedback!

I've always been aware of the sheer scale of the work, it was certainly pretty naive of me to be so forward about it all ;D but for now I am definitely prepared to scale back my ambitions quite a bit, I even have a couple of ideas for stationary elements I can practice with. The thing I would like to see more than anything is a cockpit for the Spiteful XIV on the WIP forum - it uses a Spitfire one, when in reality it was quite different.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.213 seconds with 26 queries.