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Author Topic: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?  (Read 423 times)

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denko9001

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do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« on: May 15, 2018, 01:03:59 PM »

I'd like to find out the reason behind the do-435's slower than normal performance for a heavy fighter in BAT. The 435 is essentially the do-335 but with the tail propeller removed and replaced with a turbojet. For whatever reason, if I load a mission when  I'm in the air already, the plane acts normal, but if you land and turn the engines back on, the plane moves like it's going through a field of honey. Putting the throttle on 100% will only make the plane taxi at around 64kmh max, and you can't get enough speed to lift it off the ground.

What's so strange about this is sometimes the plane will taxi normally and it'll be able to lift itself off the runway (usually at 250kmh), but most of the time, I can barely move and end up crashing into the trees at the end of the runway since there isn't enough room. After extensively testing the plane's performance I noticed it was fine for the first 2 times, but when I tried to take off a third time, it became too slow to take off with, and the plane dropped to the ground at speeds that would normally make a steady climb rate (268kmh). This leads me to believe that the jet engine in the back off the plane is breaking down over time and becoming less powerful, but I don't know if such a thing happens in il2. Does anyone know why the plane is so sluggish to take off and how to takeoff consistently with it? I know the do335 weighed almost 9 tons but not even the tu-95 needs as much room to take off as this plane.
(Also sometimes when you restart the turbojet in the back the game will just say engine: off, as if the engine died suddenly. This is the only plane I tested so far that does this)

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SAS~Storebror

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 11:15:06 PM »

With a recorded track of all of this, it might be easier for us to understand what exactly is happening.

]cheers[
Mike
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western0221

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 01:31:49 AM »

Do-435 (Do-232) mod's 2nd Jet engine is very easy to overheat with throttle 70 - 90 % area.

When we control its throttles in normal collective style 1+2, only in 2 or 3 minutes .... 2nd Jet engine overheats and get damaged, cannot make enough thrust power.
Isn't it ?

To avoid such overheating, separate throttle control like 1st prop is 70 - 100% area but 2nd Jet is 30 - 50% in cruise flight or taxing times , and use 2nd engine throttle 60 - 100 % area only limited short --- true necessary --- time with watching engine temperature (I'm not sure its cockpit gauges correctly cover 2nd engine temperature, though).
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denko9001

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 05:47:59 AM »

With a recorded track of all of this, it might be easier for us to understand what exactly is happening.
I’ll try to do this. I’m pretty sure the problem is the runway isn’t big enough. Right when I reach the end of the runway I try adding power to the engine and the plane actually gets slower instead of faster.
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denko9001

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 05:49:31 AM »

To avoid such overheating, separate throttle control like 1st prop is 70 - 100% area but 2nd Jet is 30 - 50% in cruise flight or taxing times , and use 2nd engine throttle 60 - 100 % area only limited short --- true necessary --- time with watching engine temperature (I'm not sure its cockpit gauges correctly cover 2nd engine temperature, though).
So once the engine becomes damaged from overheating, there’s no way to get it back to the way it was?
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SAS~vampire_pilot

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 08:17:33 AM »

Well, you need to get into a hangar, have qualified technicians disassemble the engine, probably even exchange it completely and then get the aircraft reassembled.

Or switch off overheating feature. Then you are at the same level as your AI opponents in that area, they don't overheat.
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denko9001

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 10:58:30 AM »

Or switch off overheating feature. Then you are at the same level as your AI opponents in that area, they don't overheat.
Thanks but I already have the engine overheat toggled off. I tried switching it off and on to see if it makes the plane go slower or faster when taking off but it seems to be roughly the same. I also notice a feature called "reliability" which I thought would make the engine not wear away, but I can't seem to find what it does yet.
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max_thehitman

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 08:03:35 AM »


Early WW2 German engines were still not 100% perfect and many had problems, so do not push them too much.
The same thing goes when flying the Me-262 and He-162.
If the jet engine fails, you can still fly with the help of the propeller on this "Luft-46" Dornier.
This fighter aircraft was planned to be built - but never really flew. Some say a prototype was already being
built but was captured by the allied troops when they invaded Germany.

Being a jet pilot for the Luftwaffe in WW2 was more like being a test-pilot and many aircraft did not
fly as they expected.... So you are more of a suicidal test pilot , rather than an "ace" pilot.

Here is a fact that most people have forgotten about late WW2 german jet engines and airplanes, they were built by
prisoner "slave" labours in underground factories.
Not all of them were professional German workers, they were Prisoners from camps.
Many of those airplane and engines were intentially built with flaws (by the prisoners) so has to break down more often.
Another thing was that jet engines needed special metals and parts which by the end of the WW2 were getting more scarce
in the factories and those parts were more prone to failures and tecnical faults as the engines worked more hours.
Quote
Especially problematic was the manufacture of turbine blades from simple sheet steel with aluminum coating.
Since the heat resistance factor of these alloys was below the requirement, a special cooling mechanism had to be devised.
 It was not enough and the average life span of production engines was only 25 hours – mainly because of damage hot exhaust
 gas caused to the turbine blades.
- http://thefutureofthings.com/3809-jet-engine-development-in-germany/

So expect many FAILURES as you fly a German jet and fly it with care. Do not push it to its limits... and always be ready to bail out
in an emergency !  ;D

 



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denko9001

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 11:14:07 AM »

Early WW2 German engines were still not 100% perfect and many had problems, so do not push them too much.
The same thing goes when flying the Me-262 and He-162.
If the jet engine fails, you can still fly with the help of the propeller on this "Luft-46" Dornier.
I get that, but it's weird how I was able to take off and land so many more times with jets like the 262, ta-183, kikka, etc but not this one. Their performance is all roughly the same each time except for the 435. With the do-435 though, it just seems to do whatever it wants. Sometimes the plane will get enough speed to lift off and other times it won't. I can't figure it out.

I also tried giving myself alot of runway space by going in the grass behind the runway but it doesn't help since even if you have a lot of room, the plane stops gaining speed at around 150mph (sometimes) and you're just stuck on the runway. You can't even turn the engine up to gain speed since that strains the engine and just makes you move slower. I will continue testing the plane on various maps to see if the runway length truly matters.
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Cloyd

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 11:22:27 AM »

Once you "break" your plane, there's no way to fix it. You need to just get a new plane (refly)
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denko9001

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 12:21:57 PM »

Once you "break" your plane, there's no way to fix it. You need to just get a new plane (refly)
Actually I think I found something out. The do-435's engines don't seem to work well together. If you're taking off and put both of them on full power, the plane barely moves and you can't get enough speed. I discovered that if you put the jet on say 90% and the propeller on 60% it takes off normally, almost as if putting the propeller on a high setting strains the plane and makes it slower.

I still don't know about the jet engine randomly dying and saying "engine: off" from time to time when you're trying to start it though.
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denko9001

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Re: do-435 inconsistencies/jet engine deterioration?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 05:57:16 PM »

ok guys, after about 10 more hours of testing the plane I think I finally figured out what's wrong with it. For whatever reason, when you're flying the do 435, you have to make sure to start both the engines at the same time. If you don't do this, the plane is unbearably slow and you can't even lift it off the runway. If you do this however, it behaves normally (like a stock do 335) and you can go on your way. Idk why this happens but I guess it's since the game is coded a certain way to handle a prop + jet engine in one aircraft.

The only problem now is getting both engines to start since sometimes you'll go to start both engines and the jet will start but the prop won't, at which point you have to turn it on manually which initiates that glitch I said earlier. Is there any way to make the engines start more consistently without them giving out?
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