Special Aircraft Service

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.  (Read 4728 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

max_thehitman

  • SAS~Area51
  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8524
  • Beer...Girls...IL2+Mods!
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 01:36:30 PM »



What do you mean the engines don´t look good?

I may be going blind, but I must admit, they DO LOOK GOOD !  8) As long as they dont fall off, its good enough for me .


By the way, I see some nice windows on the fuselage side. Can we see what´s inside?
Like the cargo or passengers/seats ? If that is not possible, then its no problem either. A skinner can always paint
those details like on the C-47 passenger version, or on that Fw-200 Condor passenger-version.




Logged
Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening ! Welcome to SAS1946

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 05:28:58 PM »

As long as they dont fall off, its good enough for me .


Maybe, maybe not, I think the glue was strong enough. :D



By the way, I see some nice windows on the fuselage side. Can we see what´s inside?
Like the cargo or passengers/seats ?


This is all there is in there at the moment Max, I need to find some interior images and decide
just how much to put in:





The reason for cutting out the windows was to provide some interior detail, trouble is by doing that there
are some problem areas on the fuselage that come from the Boolean cutting method, maybe I could have
gone with alpha cut windows or just painted the circles in.

I have a separate fuselage ready to cut up for the tanker/transports already mapped so I could start again on the civil
if I decide I do not like the look of things, however, I will persevere with what I have for the moment as I would need the
detail anyway if you can see into the fuselage.



Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged

Dreamk

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1451
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2018, 10:30:37 PM »

Pete Hi!
The boolean cut is tricky. If you want to use it you need first to "cap" all holes in your fuselage mesh then built a single "cutting mesh" (even if it is a complex one) in order to "boolean cut" all holes at the same time.
 
Another much better although slightly slower method is to create windows "without cutting them" - I explain:
1) use the polygon "connect edges" and polygon "cut" functions in order to create square polys of roughly the right size at the emplacement of the windows,


2) then connect their edges so as to create a "double cross" inside these windows (editable poly/ edges/ connect/ segment=2) - you this create on each side of these windows 2 vertices, beyond the corner vertices.








3) Select one after another the edges inside these square windows and remove them (editable poly/ edges/ remove) - pay attention that "remove" is not "delete" - the result will be a square poly with 12 vertices regularly distributed along on the 4 edges  of its periphery.


4) Select these vertices, then apply the "spherify" modifier - the result is now perfectly round windows. select the polygons of these windows and apply a transparent material ("glass or glass2) and you have now the body of the fuselage with a "gloss1D0o" material and your transparent windows in "glass" material.




5) adjust the vertices that may have be deplaced in the fuselage during this process, and if necessary remap (always recommended)

Logged

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2018, 05:01:26 AM »

Hello Dreamk, thank you very much for the tutorial, really appreciated. 8)


I have been using gmax on this project so I will have to take a look and see if the tools you mention are available so I can give the process a try. ;)

I used the usual Boolean method in various ways, including capping holes, used edible poly and edible mesh, I found the big issue of too many vertices created is more apparent when the part concerned becomes a edible mesh.

For those who are not familiar, here is a image of what we are discussing:




Each vertices sends a line out to others and if you try to move or weld them it distorts the mesh, particularly noticeable when text or stripes are present, makes poly reduction difficult.

I took the spare fuselage I have that only has the cockpit windows and made a file that could be opened in Blender, that seems to give the same effect so I guess it is the nature of the beast, although Blender and 3dsmax most likely have extra tools to improve the situation.


At least now I have this second method there is another option to test so thank you again Dreamk.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged

[FAC] Ghost129er

  • unlock.inc
  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2018, 11:39:28 AM »

I used the usual Boolean method in various ways, including capping holes, used edible poly and edible mesh, I found the big issue of too many vertices created is more apparent when the part concerned becomes a edible mesh.

Boolean, Splines, Lines, MeshSmooth, Relax, ProOptimize, Optimize - How to exceed your Poly Limit 101. These are extremely high detail/complexity tools that not only add a bunch of polys but also create a lot of smoothing/etc issues.

I highly suggest you shift+drag your Boolean part before you work or put a Boolean modifier on it! I've had to redo many fuselages/complex objects from scratch because of the lack of backups.

For your Windows, I have few suggestions maybe Pete -

-Use lower edge cylinders when using boolean (will look less nice but save you poly count)
-Cut up and make fuselage into multiple parts (Then you can have like stage 1, stage 2, stage 3 fuselage like a rocket and have each to 3k poly each)
-Delete any unused verts
-Weld verts where possible to reduce count without sacrificing detail.



Fuselage itself without canopy is 4k polys, ouch! Will 101% require LoD.
Logged
zweeeeeeeee

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 07:00:54 AM »

WOW, that is one nice looking model Ghost129er. 8)

As you say most of the tools we use to hopefully improve the look of our models have a cost, most increase the poly count and I have found that going even a few above the mesh limit will make the QMB screen flicker like mad. :o

I cannot figure out why the BV 138 seaplane from AviaSkins works in game as Dimon released it because those meshes like your fuselage are above 4k. o_O

I was asked to make that skinable in the IL-2 sense and managed it but had to chop things up and re-size to make it work, still waiting for the guys to decide where we go with that one. o_O

Thankfully the B-377 is okay even with the windows, the inner skin lost a few areas and I welded what I could and the result is what you see, should not be a issue with the transport/tanker aircraft as they had fewer windows. ;)

Anyway, onwards and upwards they say, Alex (Bison_M) thought new wheels from PA Jeronimo
would add considerably to the overall appearance, thank you very much Alex really appreciated:




PA's work is truly outstanding, I live in hope that one day I will be able to attain his skills. 8)


Alex reactivated the nose wheel door as well, I removed it because it did not quite fit and on the actual aircraft there
are three doors, one is on the nose wheel leg and retracts with that, I will maybe shorten what we have and make
the third door to make things look correct.


The actual prototype used the original B-29 engines, again thanks to Alex for the info, so I guess if you did not
like my engines reverting back would not be entirely wrong.

There is a WIP of the B-50 that has much better engines than I could ever hope to make and a suggestion was
made to borrow those, however, that was never released by those involved so I considered it inappropriate to
use anything from that even though I have the model.

I could do with a set of wide prop blades and a pointed spinner, any ideas please guys so I do not have to make them?

Sorry this is taking time guys, health issues mean I get to spend very little time at the machine so I pick away at it if
and when I can, hopefully though a can do some basic work on the interior and at least release the civil fuselage update
you see here soon. ;)

That said a month of football is upon us, yippee. :D


Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2018, 11:59:02 AM »

Hello again guys, just a few images to  show ongoing work. ;)


Apart from the interior the civil B-377 is to all intents and purposes as you would see it in game so I took a little time to actually look at the changes that would be necessary for the tanker before I get too involved with the interior detail.

I decided to cut the spare fuselage up and add it without cutting any windows, using paint due to the small size and lack of interior that would actually be seen in these military types, changes to the fuselage then would essentially be to make a new radome for the front:




And the boom operators station at rear:





My test aircraft folder for the B-377 that you have already seen with new fuselage and engines was then
copied and renamed for the KC-97 tanker to except these few changes for the tanker and at the same time
any additions like the boom were also added and test flown:










So far so good. :D


I do have a separate version under parallel development with updated java from 4S_Vega and B-50 parts added by
Bison_M but that is another story and one for another time and place, what you see here is what was started to go
into a update of the current pack utilizing those exiting parts, anything else will be a bonus as they say. ;)



Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged

[FAC] Ghost129er

  • unlock.inc
  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2018, 12:09:09 PM »

So far so good? That's an understatement - it's excellent so far Pete! 8)

That's the thing with remaking/improving things. Takes a lot of work/remaking of just one part to perfect something, the reason why each and every single mod and aircraft is a work of art in it's own way.

Can't wait to see the finished product!
Logged
zweeeeeeeee

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2018, 02:14:17 AM »

So far so good? That's an understatement - it's excellent so far Pete! 8)

That's the thing with remaking/improving things. Takes a lot of work/remaking of just one part to perfect something, the reason why each and every single mod and aircraft is a work of art in it's own way.

Can't wait to see the finished product!


Glad you like it so far Ghost129er. 8)


I think this would be a ideal project for anyone wanting to try their hand at 3d for the game, gives you a opportunity to see how things are put together without the need to build the entire aircraft, it improves the existing pack but is not as daunting as making the complete aircraft. ;)

The advice generally given to potential new modders is start simple, from personal experience I have to agree it is the most valuable advice that anyone can get here or anywhere else.


Anyway, clan shell doors anyone:








As you see I am not the best at this stuff. :D


Getting these cut out and working is the last major obstacle for this project, with a few lumps and bumps needed for the C-97K I will then be able to return to the interior for the civvy.


Take care.


Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D

Logged

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2018, 03:55:51 PM »

Hello again guys, well the clam shell doors are now working roughly as they should. ;)

They could actually do with a little fine tuning, sorry, I have not the patience these days:







Just need to add the lods to the tail and the doors and it will be as good as ready as I can get it, once
released anyone who feels the need can tinker with it further. :D


Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged

max_thehitman

  • SAS~Area51
  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8524
  • Beer...Girls...IL2+Mods!
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2018, 05:58:24 PM »



I did not know it had clam shell doors for supply-drops. Very cool.
You did well Pete, looks great!

Logged
Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening ! Welcome to SAS1946

Mission_bug

  • Modder
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4006
Re: New fuselage for the B/C-377/C-97.
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2018, 02:23:10 AM »



I did not know it had clam shell doors for supply-drops. Very cool.
You did well Pete, looks great!



Yes Max, the original conversion was intended for bulky cargo, look at one of those first videos here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=c-97&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab


No guys, sorry, I am not going to try and model that ramp. :D


If you look at photographs of the later KC-97 you can actually see the boom operators station looks to be a plug and go part, fits just where the cargo doors were.


Commute to work anyone:






Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.032 seconds with 26 queries.