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#### Mission_bug

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« on: July 06, 2017, 04:18:46 PM »

So finally at last one of the lend lease aircraft we have been so eagerly anticipating on the Eastern Front has been added.

Gorgeous, she really is the star of this show.

And at last another aircraft where I can read the instruments.

Hopefully now those who have not bought into this so far might give it a go, my involvement with the old
IL-2 started when I got the chance to fly the B-239 escorting Blenheim's on the Gulf of Finland map, happy
days, may this be in all respects the modern day successor.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.
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#### Flying H

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##### Re: BoS adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 04:52:38 PM »

And she flies like a bird of prey! Takes some light touch and caress!
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#### Drewm3i

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##### Re: BoS adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 07:03:34 PM »

Honestly, the flight models in this game are out of this world. I can't play 1946 or CLOD anymore after playing this game, it is that good and I held out a lot g time due to cost, but it is worth it!
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#### SAS~Storebror

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##### Re: BoS adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 10:36:02 PM »

Truth being told, it's not BoS but BoK Premium Edition which holds the Spitfire.
And to be honest, while many flight models "feel right", there's also the odd occasion like with P-40/Bf-110 flight models which just "feel wrong" and don't compare well to each other.
In that aspect, it's quite like 1946: Much light, some shadow.

Best regards - Mike
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#### SAS~Gerax

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##### Re: BoS adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 01:44:37 AM »

Quote
it's not BoS but BoK Premium Edition
For this I'm disappointed .. would have loved to see the Spit as a general Collector plane
(although "historically not correct in BoS, BoM") available right now and would have ordered it.
But so ..

BoK is the third "installment" now, have I really to pay the full high price every time
they made one new main Eastern Front map and a few planes (plus some of them to
pay extra as "Collector" planes!)? Will this go on for a lets say BoKursk, BoLeningrad,
BoCrimea etc scenarios? Where will this end? Becoming a proud owner of
"IL-2 one big WWII Eastern Front FS" with 10 main maps and lets say 75 planes
(most of them variants) where I have paid € 1000 then?

When I would start today I would have to pay ~ € 290 to get BoS,BoM,BoK plus
all planes and campaigns on their shop .. way too expansive for my taste.
No bundle, no extra prices for owners of other BoXs, nothing.

I would pay a new a high price when there would be complete new scenarios like
Pacific- or lets say Western Front warfare etc. with complete new maps
incl. all the new buildings, enviroment stuff, types of tanks, ships...

For now I feel screwed just because I am FS enthusiast.

....

But it will end as always .. someone will then upload a 4k movie
with Spits hunting some Henschels 129s in Kubans valleys .. and I will buy.
And pay the full price. Because I am an idiot. And they know it.

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#### Mission_bug

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##### Re: BoS adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 03:21:57 AM »

Truth being told, it's not BoS but BoK Premium Edition which holds the Spitfire.

True, but as the Kuban map is not here yet we have to fly it on the existing maps, read BoS as the franchise
when I use it in the title. I will change it just for you though and to avoid confusing the folks reading this.

Quote
it's not BoS but BoK Premium Edition
For this I'm disappointed .. would have loved to see the Spit as a general Collector plane

It is actually listed as a collector plane but for some reason like the others does not seem to be on its own, strange
really, maybe when the map is finally released that will change.

It maybe the timeline essentially prevents its use on the other maps, generally you cannot fly something in a campaign
say that cannot be tied to the historical events and even though the Spitfire was used in the Moscow area it was at a
later date to the Kuban conflict that will be portrayed in the period of the map when it becomes available.

BoK is the third "installment" now, have I really to pay the full high price every time
they made one new main Eastern Front map and a few planes (plus some of them to
pay extra as "Collector" planes!)?

Buying into anything new these days is costly, however, for a map and the usual plane set at roughly $80 these titles are hardly prohibitively expensive with the option to purchase individual titles and there are regular sales. Sadly the days of free gifts are gone my friend except from TD with our beloved 1946. Wishing you all the very best, Pete. Logged #### SAS~Gerax • SAS Team • member • Offline • Posts: 4679 ##### Re: BoS adds the Spitfire to the line up. « Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 04:53:32 AM » Buying into anything new these days is costly, however, for a map and the usual plane set at roughly$80 these titles
are hardly prohibitively expensive with the option to purchase individual titles and there are regular sales.

I would agree when it would be a more or less completely new product.
But thats not the case. So I have to pay ie the games basic engine every time?
The efforts they put into some developement tools? Etc. etc.

Yes, I know, BoK brings:
Quote
...
adding several new technologies, gameplay modes and community centered features
to the Sturmovik series that will setup future titles based in the Pacific theater.
..

but even this doesn't make it a completely new product what would justify a full price
for someone who owns BoS and BoM (what btw is nothing more than a expansion to BoS).
And more, I'm pretty that when such a "Pacific theater" is available then
I again have to pay the full price although I own BoS,BoM,BoK...

When they sell their BoXs as stand-alone product (although its just expansions
and enhancements of one product line) then they at least should offer
the owners of one BoX some "special" prices when they want to buy another BoX.
But thats not the case. And this I do not like.

I will buy and pay again, as said above, I am an FS enthusiast.
But as much I love the game, there is this bad taste.

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#### SAS~Storebror

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##### Re: BoK Premium Edition adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 06:03:20 AM »

On the other hand, we want them to keep up the development pace, we want them to continue to work with their full scale dev team, we want them to push BoX to the limits of every new technology arising.
And they do so:
They've upgraded the core engine to support newer DirectX technology, they switched to full native 64 Bit code etc.
But if we want them to continue the developement of this game at full pace, we will also have to pay them for it.

Basically each new sequel is a whole new game in itself, maybe not compared to the fully matured predecessor, but surely compared to the predecessor at it's release date.
Therefore I second Pete's statement that 80 bucks by far isn't too much to call out for.
Even more, if there was a pack for 1000 bucks promising to keep me updated with any further BoX sequel and trouble-free for the coming 5 years (or so), I'd probably buy it, as a "full featured" software solution including updates, and that's what I'd deem it worth for then.

Best regards - Mike
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#### sniperton

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##### Re: BoK Premium Edition adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 07:46:27 AM »

There are regular sales, as the one which ended just two days ago. One could purchase

BoS for $40 BoM for$50
BoK for $70 (pre-order) -------------------- Sum:$160

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#### Mission_bug

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##### Re: BoK Premium Edition adds the Spitfire to the line up.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 11:14:51 AM »

I agree that it feels at times you are buying the same thing over and again but the improvements have been superb from what we had at the start and it continues to improve with each update, how long has it took to get IL-2 1946 to the current state?

From listening to Jason the financial situation seems critical and I keep expecting the whole thing to go under at any time, maybe they are charging too little for their product when compared to other titles out there.

The Sterling to Dollar exchange is more or less even at the moment and while the $80 dollar top price may seem high to some think of what most of us are paid as a hourly rate of pay, for someone in a technical profession such as programming and 3D art that rate will be considerably more and the 1C/777 team has to get through each design cycle on the revenue from their product, I for one feel the product is worth every penny. At the end of the day the BoS/BoM/BoK franchises are the only real alternative out there for those who love WWII aviation and flight games in general and who want the best that can be produced for the price, not to mention they actually deliver on their promises. I say enjoy what we have so far and continue to support the team if you can, hopefully in the future there might be as much variety as our older game. Wishing you all the very best, Pete. Logged #### SAS~Storebror • Editor • member • Offline • Posts: 18635 • Failure is not an option. ##### Re: BoK Premium Edition adds the Spitfire to the line up. « Reply #11 on: July 08, 2017, 12:31:22 AM » A few hits in the 109 and your engine will eventually fail as generally your radiators are leaking. A few hits attacking a bomber in a p-40 and you shrug it off like nothing and keep going. Unfortunately, in a Focke Wulf you suffer from the same to exactly the same level, which is not correct. But nevertheless... it continues to improve with each update ...so it will be fixed at some time. think of what most of us are paid as a hourly rate of pay, for someone in a technical profession such as programming and 3D art that rate will be considerably more and the 1C/777 team has to get through each design cycle on the revenue from their product, I for one feel the product is worth every penny. Indeed. It's a bit hard to calculate the actual costs for 777 studios since we don't know the real size of the Developer Team and the development model of doing it in small chunks rather than rolling out a self-contained and "finished" game is rather uncommon, but let's try to put this into dimension: If BoX was developed self-contained and sealed like "classic" games (which in my book would roughly compare to ~5 parts of the BoX sequel), it would take a company like 777 studios roughly$50M to get it pushed out the door. That's not wild guessing, it's just what experience taught us from other game titles.
The way it's being developed in small chunks makes each chunk much cheaper (say it's the factor 5, $10M for each part of it), but in the long run it will be more expensive. This however is compensated by the fact that in contrast to "classic" game development they don't need to get the sales going within a rather short period of time, it's stretched across the whole lifetime of the product. This means you can keep the marketing campaign rather small, and this is the biggest chunk of a game's cost. A$50M game can easily consume 3 times as much (\$150M) just for the marketing.
777 Studios doesn't do that. Their marketing is rather small, at the edge of non existent.
The marketing of the BoX sequel is the game itself, it's continuous development, mouth-to-mouth advertisement and the general reputation on the net (the latter is why the devs got so picky when the first BoS release faced a rather critical reception).

Simulation games are not like first person shooters.
Even more so flight simulations.
We want it physically and historically correct.
Praise the Lord that this is exactly what 777 Studios puts their money in and not some fance marketing campaigns.
Even if this means that we have to buy "the same core" every other year.
It's worth it if we want this genre to survive some more years.

Best regards - Mike
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