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Author Topic: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW  (Read 4237 times)

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VF19_Congo

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F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« on: August 29, 2016, 04:23:24 AM »

The US Marine Aviation Pack is part of the CUP / Jet Age installation with v4.12, Modact 5.3, Engine Mod 2.7

I wish to report a problem using the above configuration as a pure installation.

The F-18, F-16 etc., leading edge flaps work, but the main trailing edge flaps do not operate correctly.
You can see the flaps jerk a bit when activated, but they do not lower.
This is NOT simply a visual bug, the trailing edge flaps DO NOT actuate manually, and the flight characteristics reflect this exactly.

This means that take offs and landings cannot be done correctly, and the aircraft exhibits abnormal and unstable behaviour,
and usually results in a crash when landing unless you approach at over 170kts (normally should be +-120kts), and even at
170kts, it's easy to get unstable and crash.
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western0221

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 05:01:30 AM »

Hi , Congo.
It's clear that you have failed to install all the MODs required correctly.
Even you are sure you've done , but really not.


Here are the taking-off procedure by correct installed game , no conflicting with other MODs , no enabling cumbersome elements even one of C.U.P. contants.
Well known thing, single "Stab4all" MOD inhibits Engine MOD workings.
Some other not known / reported MODs might do similar.... ?


1. Engines start-up and set Flap switch as "HALF"

The switch position is HALF, and FBW works as flaps full-down in 0km/h on the ground.

2. Throttle upto 110% and wait. No need to touch elevator, the rotation is done automatically.

Only the player have to do is retracting the gears.

3. FBW retracts flaps a bit and a bit following flying speed without touching Flap switch.


4. Level flight

If you need, return the Flap switch into "Auto".
Today's version do it automatically, but that is not planned / real behavior.
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VF19_Congo

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 05:07:34 AM »

Hi , Congo.
It's clear that you have failed to install all the MODs required correctly.
Even you are sure you've done , but really not.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Western, and for all the pretty pictures :)

The US Marine Aviation pack is a part of CUP.
Also, Stab4all is enabled by DEFAULT for CUP #JTW installation, user cannot switch it off!
I switch everything off in JSGME, I still have the problems, Stab4all remains enabled.

I installed CUP as per instructions here:
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,47647.0.html

No other modifications.

I also tried CUP install with #JTW module only, no WAW, no TGA, no DoF. It is same result.

Please trust I have done this accurately, many times, more than 30 times as per those instructions,
on my PC and my friends PC's. I am very skilled in file handling and pathname installation routines.
I am computer literate and followed the install instructions to the letter. I am PC support tech for over
20 years, but maybe I make a mistake?

I use FMB to build the mission, 15 years mission building in FMB for me. I try the simplest mission,
stock maddox1c map, still same problem exists.

I thought the CUP install is a complete mod, please, anyone, say what is missing that I need,
so I can fix this for myself and my friends please?



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SAS~Gerax

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 06:56:56 AM »

Congo, a radical quick fix would be this (just tried):

DL from here first posts "!!!!_US_Marine_Aviation_Java_Pack",
unzip and put the folder you get into your CUP-JTW directory,
then rename it so it becomes first in load order (eg ! 00 ....).

DL the latest EngineMod with latest Westerns fixes etc from here:

Put this into your CUP-JTW directory and rename it so it becomes
first in load order (eg ! 00 ....).

Disable (put a minus ("-") in front of the mods name) "!SAS_Engine_Mod" in CUP-JTW.

Then try the F-18s, F-16s again.

BUT PLEASE BE CAREFUL. I have no idea which implications this brings to all the other JTW mods.
You would have to test the other planes in JTW, especially the more complex ones
(F-16, MiG-21 etc), maybe they and most simple Franken Planes will work as before,
but I am not sure about this as I have not tested them, just tried this quick fix
with the F-18s and F-16s only.  ;)

And whats about Online compatibility with this quick fix solution?
Sorry, I have absolutely no clue (never played online, have no idea about all this).
So, please test ..

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VF19_Congo

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 09:16:52 AM »

DL the latest EngineMod with latest Westerns fixes etc from here:

Thanks very much Gerax, I will try this now, however,
I am confused as to which of Westerns many different patches to use,
so I will try the first one (no additional effects etc.) until I am advised otherwise.

I do this because I am unsure of what is actually contained in CUP,
so which of Westerns patches is the correct one for a straight CUP installation?

I will return with test results ASAP.
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VF19_Congo

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2016, 10:10:13 AM »




Thank You, Gerax, flaps all work now on Hornet, Viper and Harrier 8)

The F-105 remains problematic as before, so it must be a different issue,
( the flaps for F-105 work fine, but the drag / lift is incorrect and out of control)
I can use Combat flap for takeoff and landing, seems to work with practice.

As you wish, I will continue testing with this fix of yours, and report anything strange
or different if it is obvious to me.

I cannot test it online until tomorrow.

Did I use the correct Westerns patch ?  (See post above)
Thanks again, I really appreciate your help, and I wish I knew how you figured this out !


Further Testing of F-18 etc. :

1. Before this fix, Air to Air missiles were loaded even if "None" was selected in loadout,
now, this is fixed and aircraft will fly "clean".

2. Noticeable Pitch Down when thrust is applied suddenly. You can observe this with F-18 on the ground,
also seen before any fix was done, with F-16 as well, F-16 being worse for pitching down as thrust is applied.
(dangerous when adding power at low level approach) -  conversely, when power is cut, the nose rises.

3. Landing the F-18 "clean" with 50% fuel, approach should be about 120kts, but anything under about 175kts
and it gets ugly, with pitch/roll stability problems, stall warnings etc., so the behaviour seems similar to what it
was before the flap animation was fixed. I do not understand this - do I still have problems?

4. F-16 flies similar high approach speed but much more controllable in landing.

5. Level Stab works on F-18, but no longer works on Mig-21 or Farmer C,
F-4 has heading hold and Alt. hold now instead of Level Stab., is this normal?

6. Cockpit viewpoint in Mig-21 seems fixed, now I can see the runway on approach.
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SAS~Gerax

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 11:58:21 AM »

I am confused as to which of Westerns many different patches to use..

me too ...  :P

I did it in this way:
1 - dl Antos Engine-Mod 2.7 from here,
2 - overwrite with Westerns patch 04/May/2016 available here,
3 - overwrite with latest 22/Aug/2016 Hotfix (same thread as 2) here.

Thast what I have, hope its OK (Western?) ..
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SAS~Gerax

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2016, 12:06:22 PM »

The F-105 remains problematic as before, so it must be a different issue,
....
Further Testing of F-18 :
....
....

Sorry, but with the behaviour of flaps etc I can't help, never was involved
in classfiles/FM editing for this Jets...  :-X
atm Western is the only guy around who maybe can help ..  ;)

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dagger123456

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2016, 02:59:24 PM »

Hello Western,  I have the same problem as Congo.  Do you have a simpler solution on fixing the flap?  I am not as litirate in computer like Congo.  I dont wanna mess up my CUP again. 
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western0221

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2016, 04:51:38 PM »

Hello Western,  I have the same problem as Congo.  Do you have a simpler solution on fixing the flap?  I am not as litirate in computer like Congo.  I dont wanna mess up my CUP again.

I have no idea about today's C.U.P. - JTW 's status, which version its Engine MOD updates is or etc.
I'm not responsible about C.U.P.

Only the suggestion is just the same to Gerax's one.
No other additional comment from me.
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VF19_Congo

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2016, 11:12:22 PM »

DL the latest EngineMod with latest Westerns fixes etc from here:

Just something I noticed here, I downloaded the *OPTIONAL* SAS Buttons 10.5 Test for Engine Mod from here:
..... and I notice it is a different filesize to the one included in the CUP installation.
Question is, which file is the correct one to use, file existing in CUP or the one in the above link?

The "buttons" file is located in CUP/#SAS/STD/gui/game by default in CUP.   *Edit: Please note this is my error,
                                                                                                                 explained by Gerax's post below



Do you have a simpler solution on fixing the flap?

Dagger,
If you PM me, I'll explain how to do it, it's not difficult and it doesn't take long to get it done.
The guys here have been helpful to me, so maybe I can be of help as well.

Put this into your CUP-JTW directory and rename it so it becomes
first in load order (eg ! 00 ....).
Gerax, I have the engine mod listed before the US Marine Aviation Java Pack,
if this is wrong plz advise.
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SAS~Gerax

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Re: F-18 Flaps in CUP JTW
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2016, 06:52:41 AM »

The "buttons" file is located in CUP/#SAS/STD/gui/game by default in CUP.

Yes, but this CUP/#SAS/STD/gui/game/buttons
- when selected via Selector - is loaded for SAS MA5.3 only.
In this case its the button wich comes with ModAct 5.3.

The buttons file for JTW sits in CUP/#JTW/STD/gui/game.
And this is the right one (Antos 10.5).

Hint: open the file il2fb.ini located in CUPs root.
There you have the start parameters for the selector.
You will find sections [Modtype_xx] with parameters "name"=xxx
and "Mods"=xxx. "Name" is what you see in the selector to choose
wich CUP Module (or stock,MA) to play. "Mods" tells the game where to find
the files for this. So when you load JTW via selector
the game loads SFS files determined in CUP/#JTW/STD/.rc file
and the content from #JTW folder. Only this!
So forget about the buttons and anything else in CUP/#SAS/STD/.
Its not loaded (doesn't exist for the game) when you load JTW.
And so it goes for all modules.  ;)

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