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Author Topic: Lag messages  (Read 1303 times)

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Nicholaiovitch

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Lag messages
« on: March 10, 2016, 03:34:25 AM »

On logging into the SAS server the other night with only one other participant, I noticed a stream of messages "Storbror lag warning no. X of X etc."
These disappeared when the other participant left and the mission changed.
What do they mean?
I see also that Jeronimo's 3D mods are causing an issue. I guess this is probably due to the ongoing upgrades of his work and the impossible task of trying to keep the SAS version of RC4 compatible?
When I first changed my install to the SAS version (now with the latest 107 pack) I removed  all mods such as the Plutonium effects mods and only had in JGSME the mods shown as compliant in the Posted thread.
However, in my mods folder I notice I still have some cockpit repaints (109/Spitfire/P40) which I used with my poor eyesight to make instruments clearer to see. Are these acceptable or should these be removed as well?
Additionally,  several years ago I extracted the rattling oleo sounds from Jaffas sound mod which replaces the sound of tyre screech on grass runways (this annoyed me for years😣) and I see that is still in my mods folder. Again, should this be removed if there is any chance of interference?
I guess it would be appropriate to reiterate exactly what is acceptable in the online installation to avoid issues affecting other participants.
It has been said many times but once again many thanks to you all for keeping this elderly Flt. Sim alive and kicking and especially to Storbror for the huge amount of work to fix the bugs that have been with us for many years.

CFC Bounder
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SAS~Skylla

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Re: Lag messages
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2016, 05:55:09 AM »

hi Bounder,

Quote
On logging into the SAS server the other night with only one other participant, I noticed a stream of messages "Storbror lag warning no. X of X etc."
These disappeared when the other participant left and the mission changed.
What do they mean?
These messages have been problematic in the past but not anymore. There are no lags and no one will get kicked, even if he gets "warned" a zillion times.
Now, why does the Server send these "warnings", then? I have to admit I don't know for sure, but iirc this appears only in the end of very crowded missions where the Server has to remove a lot of AI planes .. for a more detailed explanation we'll have to wait for Mike, I guess ..

Quote
I see also that Jeronimo's 3D mods are causing an issue.
Yes, they do. The cockpit fixes for example make the P-51 unplayable since you cannot enter the cockpit anymore ..
the building fixes remove some buildings they should fix; this will lead to big problems in some Missions and make them unplayable

Quote
However, in my mods folder I notice I still have some cockpit repaints (109/Spitfire/P40) which I used with my poor eyesight to make instruments clearer to see. Are these acceptable or should these be removed as well?
Additionally,  several years ago I extracted the rattling oleo sounds from Jaffas sound mod which replaces the sound of tyre screech on grass runways (this annoyed me for years) and I see that is still in my mods folder. Again, should this be removed if there is any chance of interference?
We recommend to only use the Mods we have listed in this topic since they are tested.
We cannot stop you from using any other Mods; there might be complications for you, though ..
So, please be careful with additions!

If you have a Mod that runs without trouble you might want to drop us a note (at best with a link to it's release topic), so we can have a look at it and add it to the list (if everything works fine)

Best Regards,
skylla
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Lag messages
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 07:06:06 AM »

The answer in a nutshell is: We can as well turn off these chat messages, I've put that on the todo list for the next patch pack.

A slightly more detailed answer is this:
I think there's a major design flaw in the IL2 net code causing this issue.
It's basically caused by the way IL2 tries to fight cheaters.
This is done by comparing the sequence numbers of the packets sent by each player to the sequence number of the last packet received, and if there's a number of packets missing, by comparing the client time to the server time.
The idea behind comparing sequence numbers is: Whe a player uses some means to skip packets for a period of time (e.g. by issueing some activity that occupies all bandwidth on his internet connection), a couple of packets will not get through anymore, giving the player the ability to "warp" to some distant place once the next packet arrives at the server again.
This would get noticed by the server using the sequence number comparison and the server would issue a warning and increase an internal counter that will kick the user if this happens repeatedly.

That much, that good.

The idea behind comparing client time to server time is basically the same, since the client could manipulate his local time and cause warping by this as well, however this idea falls short:
When the server time is adjusted (*), all clients times will be out of sync immediately and they won't come back to sync anymore.
Unfortunately IL2 is lacking any code to check such type of server sided time changes.
Any packet coming from a client with invalid timestamp (read: offset to server time exceeds limits) will not be counted as a "valid" good packet anymore.
It will by computed as usual, but after a certain time the server will notice that he didn't receive a "valid" good packet from the client for a period of time and will start issueing lag warnings.
That's what we see here.
And to make matters worse, there's no way out of this, since even if client and server times would sync somehow again, the server will not even consider asking the client for it's time once the client reached a certain threshold of failed packet timestamps.
The bottom line is that most probably this is caused by server-sided time adjustments (*) and has nothing to do with real lag, client issues, cheating or the like.
It's definitely safe to ignore these messages, at least on our server, since it's configured not to kick players for lag warnings.

(*) Synchronizing a local PCs time frequently (e.g. with some external high precision time source via NTP) is nothing special.
On a virtualized system (like our game server) however depending on the CPU load the local clock will run out of sync quite soon and rather massive, that's why NTP sync is essential and that's also why such system step into this trap quite frequently.

Best regards - Mike
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Nicholaiovitch

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Re: Lag messages
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 09:58:49 AM »

Many thanks chaps for your detailed answers.
Bounder😀
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