Special Aircraft Service

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: CUP FM arcade mode  (Read 3582 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Amberhell

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
CUP FM arcade mode
« on: February 19, 2016, 05:52:51 PM »

Hello evrybody here in il-2 forum
i am no so good in english
i just want to ask for FM fitures in CUP
i have got CUP instal and realy think it is super work.
just i am using hsfx at the moment and CUP luks like arkade game to me after.
any designations to put real fm to cup.
or something like expert mode in hsfx.

i have got a lot of mods made for il-2 and think first leter to this forum is god start to share after.
Logged

SAS~Malone

  • flying as #46 with the FAC
  • Editor
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14562
  • proud member of that 'other' site
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 03:37:59 AM »

hmm...i shouldn't think calling CUP an arcade game is a good start, but it's your thread....

Logged
.....taking fun seriously since 1968.....  8)

asheshouse

  • SAS Team
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3255
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 10:40:20 AM »

Since you are you using "Expert Mode" in HSFX7 which has "modified FM's" to replace the "stock" FM's, can you tell us in what way does it feel more "real" to you?
I don't think that CUP has changed the stock FM's. Do you think the stock FM's are wrong?

Logged

Nesher

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 04:33:54 AM »

I agree with Amberhell although I can only compare the experience with DBW (which is 4.10 based).

It is hard to describe precisely, in which way is the experience more realistic, but I will try to collect a few of my impressions regarding DBW (4.10) vs HSFX (4.12):

Energy retention, accelerations, RoC, engine overheatings seem to be more realistic accodring to the historical graphs/reports, crit Mach values and drag coefficient finally matter a lot now.
Stall and G-load behaviour (recovering from blackouts also) feel more realistic as well.

Flight inputs give you a much less "linear/arcade like" feeling  compared to DBW (even while using the same control+joystick configuration).

Weapon damages seem more life-like, but it may be due to the 4.10 vs 4.12 difference, I am not sure.

Plus most of Oleg's fictional FMs have been finally corrected to reflect their historical counterparts, so no more "überplanes" do exist!  :D



I am very happy that I finally made up my mind to d/l and try HSFX, I absolutely adore the overall new/realistic feeling!  8)
After DBW I almost have to relearn from scrap (literally speaking) how to effectively do dogfighting in HSFX...  :o   ;D


PS: Forgot to mention that I am using HSFX Expert mode also.  ;)
Logged

SAS~Storebror

  • Editor
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23626
  • Taking a timeout
    • STFU
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 09:58:22 AM »

accodring to the historical graphs/reports
Which ones?

It's a popular sport to always back up assumptions by stating that they'd comply to "historical data", but rarely ever do you see anyone providing these sources.
So as long as you don't tell us which "historical graphs/reports" you're talking about, all you're saying is "my belly says I like this more" - an assumption at best.

Mach drag has been implemented with 4.12, DBW cannot freature Mach Drag on Stock flight models, so it's no surprise that there's a slight lack of accuracy here but, to be honest, for 99% of the planes available in IL-2 it doesn't matter since you pass Vne way before Mach Drag steps in.
Furthermore the thread starter complained about CUP and CUP uses the same Mach Drag like 4.12 and HSFX (including "Expert" mode) does.

The damage model is identical for 95% of planes between HSFX (Expert or not), Stock, DBW, CUP, whatever. Only very few damage models have been altered and I strongly doubt you will notice the changes.

Toned down "wet dream" flight models is the only point I agree upon.
Whether to keep such flight models in order to keep a game compatible to stock game versions and thus keep e.g. campaigns and missions acting like they were intended to, or to change them in order to get rid of Oleg's "wet dreams" at the cost of compatibility is a matter of taste and decision, you cannot have it all at once.

All in all, another FM thread, another time for people to let the world know about their "feelings".
I'd much more appreciate facts, but I'm yet to read them.

Best regards - Mike
Logged
Don't split your mentality without thinking twice.

asheshouse

  • SAS Team
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3255
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 10:48:57 AM »

HSFX 7 implements "Aachens full FM" in Expert Mode.    I am not competent to assess its merits but there is much more info in the HSFX 7 Read Me document. 

www.tuttovola.org/il2/7_HSFX_7/HSFX7.0ReadMe.pdf

Detailed info about the FM Changes in this document, also included in the HSFX 7 download

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2d815dw9xz2r1w/FM%20documentation%20V7.0%20Aachen.pdf?dl=0

Aachen includes a list of his references and lots of comparative charts.
Looks very impressive, but I am not able to judge its merits.

Since this is provided as a JSGME option in HSFX7 the files affected should be relatively easy to identify.
Logged

Nesher

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 01:37:55 AM »

Dear Mike,

this is why I highlighted that I can only compare HSFX to DBW, and I mentioned several times the 4.10 vs 4.12 difference, so no need to insult me, take a breath.
You almost sound like if you took it a little personal, however I meant nothing wrong against you (or DBW), which cannot be said about your reply.

Forums are there for open discussions right? Which may include comparisons and personal feelings too.  ;)

Graphs I found in my own books and some others on the web, for example here, or in online, scranned Pilot Manuals (see my post here as one example). One may find a lot of different Pilot Manuals/Notes on Google, if you know how to use the search engine properly.

I didnt say damage model, I said weapon damage, which is not the same!
And it is completely different in DBW vs HSFX.

If you are to read facts, why not go for it and do some research? Libraries and google are available.  ;)

Take care,
Ed
Logged

SAS~Storebror

  • Editor
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23626
  • Taking a timeout
    • STFU
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2016, 02:30:26 AM »

no need to insult me, take a breath.
Show me where I insulted you please, thanks.

If you are to read facts, why not go for it and do some research? Libraries and google are available.  ;)
Welcome to my ignore list.

Best regards - Mike
Logged
Don't split your mentality without thinking twice.

Nesher

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 04:50:33 AM »

Show me where I insulted you please, thanks.

Dear Mike,

you managed to avoid any direct insults, however the overall tone of your reply showed arrogance and tried to make people (myself including) feeling themselves stupid for expressing their views and feelings regarding a subject on which you don't agree.
Disagreement is OK with me, but arrogance and contempt are not!

All the best to you,
Ed
Logged

nyali

  • Supporter
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 501
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 06:47:03 AM »

Dear Mike,

you managed to avoid any direct insults, however the overall tone of your reply showed arrogance and tried to make people (myself including) feeling themselves stupid for expressing their views and feelings regarding a subject on which you don't agree.
Disagreement is OK with me, but arrogance and contempt are not!

All the best to you,
Ed

Sorry to jump in Storebror but....

Nesher it is interesting to note that your first post here was only a couple of weeks ago, and that was asking how to avoid damaging your MW50 boosted 109's engine, surely as such an expert in FM models and flight characteristics you should have known these basics ?

I know what the feeling in my gut is telling me  ;)
Logged

Nesher

  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2016, 08:53:57 AM »

Nesher it is interesting to note that your first post here was only a couple of weeks ago, and that was asking how to avoid damaging your MW50 boosted 109's engine...

Dear nyali,

i dont think it is interesting, but to fulfill your curiosity, i registered here 3 years ago and I wasn't an active member here, so this is why I have almost no posts.
I had 2 years falling out from IL-2 due to other commitments (however I have been flying with IL-2 since the Forgotten Battles release), and forgot some of the in-game tricks (like applying MW50 below 50% power) during my absent years.

Plus I never mentioned I am a FM expert, just expressed my thoughts regarding how HSFX feels compared to DBW.

Take care,
Ed
Logged

SAS~Malone

  • flying as #46 with the FAC
  • Editor
  • member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14562
  • proud member of that 'other' site
Re: CUP FM arcade mode
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2016, 11:50:31 AM »


you managed to avoid any direct insults, however the overall tone of your reply showed arrogance and tried to make people (myself including) feeling themselves stupid for expressing their views and feelings regarding a subject on which you don't agree.


i'm sorry to step in here, but this is getting ridiculous now (as most of these FM related threads tend to end up in this community, over all the years and across all the various sites)
i fail to see any of this arrogance you mention - again, this seems to be an issue of 'feelings' and i'm afraid when i look at the words written here, and the 'feeling' you have of being made to 'feel stupid' just don't correlate at all.
you were the one who mentioned historical graphs in this thread, Nesher - and it's logical that, unless you offer info on exactly which graphs you refer to (we have access to many official charts, so it's always interesting for us to see how they compare), then there's no point at all in even mentioning them.
if you want to talk official stats, then show them - if you want to talk feelings, then keep it at that. you can't have it both ways.
i fully understand why Storebror takes a hard stand with these sort of threads, as they generally end up in exactly the sort of mess you are now turning it into.
now the focus is suddenly not on the FM's, it's all aimed at some 'perceived' arrogance.
this is even frustrating for me, to see yet another of this sort of thread ending up with someone feeling as if they have somehow been wronged.
i feel insulted when someone new to the site comes along and starts calling CUP an arcade game, but i know that is just my feeling, and do not interpret it as a personal insult. for that reason, even though i disagree completely with the OP, he is of course free to say his say.
but when someone starts feeling personally insulted, when there is no evidence of this...well...
it's absolute rubbish, and if this thread continues in the same vein, i am going to pull it completely.
unfortunately, pretty much the same way most of this sort of thread ends up - in the dump.
NOT because we don't want to discuss this stuff, but because most people seem to have different perceptions of things when it comes to 'feelings'
and this is a prime reason why Storebror called you on the graphs you mention, NOT to make you feel insulted, but because once we see true graphs, then the feelings (everybody's) can take a back seat and let the facts do the talking.
so, either everyone calms down and start talking sense in this thread, or i simply pull the plug on it.
Logged
.....taking fun seriously since 1968.....  8)
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.076 seconds with 25 queries.