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Author Topic: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red  (Read 41976 times)

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Dreamk

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2016, 04:22:06 AM »

The game engine has had from the beginning a flaw with throttle:
The Ansaldo A1 could fly at 210-220kmh max and even for very short periods reach 234 kmh. The SPA 6A engine that equipped all the Assaldo planes (A1 and SVA) was quite performant for its period.
Due to the formulas used in the game engine, at throttle 75% the engines runs at nominal power (maximal power is just 50rpm over that) - so always run this engine around 75% throttle if you don't want to enter into over-revving and over-heating.
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Mission_bug

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2016, 08:34:01 AM »

Quote
in the hope that others would step up to the mark and try and finish what I started ...

Tell me about that! It's because of the cockpits that this pack has been stuck for such a long time. I published a WIP of the planes here and at a pair of other forum with a call for help, even offered to send the models to whoever was wanting to go ahead with them....but the breakout came first when Mike decided last summer to open an "Eclipse online course for SAS fellows" and then when Stainless came with his tools, a few months ago. The Il2Modder program makes really the task of making cockpits quite easier - it was a nightmare till then. Then Eclipse enables you to write java methods much more easily and smoothly than the DJ decompiler.



Hello Dreamk, I never knew you had made these available as a WIP, first I knew was when this thread opened.. :-[


I can confirm that Mike's timely initiative to try and pass his java abilities to the rest of us was certainly the inspiration for a lot of projects here, sadly I am not much of a model pupil, hope he is not too dissapointed with my efforts though.

Sorry to say I am not sure quite how the Stainless tool helps specifically with cockpits as my use of it tends to be in alignment of gun hooks primarily, unfortunately I have not delved deeper into what must surely be a marvellous tool and explored its potential.

I find Skinl my greatest ally in assembling anything, especially the cockpits of Gio's aircraft, and yet again I have probably not even scratched the surface of what that can do either.

So many things to do yet somehow I do not spend enough time actually trying to become proficient at the things like java and the various tools we a very fortunate enough to have available to us here to complete those projects we are most fond of.


Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Dreamk

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2016, 09:42:36 AM »

October 30, 2013
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,26088.msg416040.html#msg416040
Quote
creating and mapping ww1 3D models is not a problem - the problem is the time needed to export them, creating slot and FM - If anyone wants to try his/her hand at it, I'll be glad to send him/her a suitable completed 3D model of mine - you need just to ask (and of course commit yourself to upload the finished mod on a fully free site like this forum).
3D models finished, mapped, with basic template and basic skin:
[follows the list of planes with pics of the models]
But weeping on spilled milk  :('t help us. Let's go ahead and try to have the max of these planes flying in Il2 :).

Concerning Stainless tool, its main interest is that it allows to open a cockpit's hier.him and export it as a FBX. The FBX can then be imported to 3d max through its native plugins. The FBX imported in such a way keeps names of meshes, with their links, their materials, and their orientation. As in all cockpits, the CF_D0 is oriented (x,y,z) (90,0,90). You just need to group all these meshes and re-orientate the group (x,y,z) (0,0,0) then begin to work.
(If you don't export the meshes with this last orientation, you'll get strange light effects in Il2 - the sun rays coming from down under - this is not such a problem for the meshes inside the cockpit but for wings and such, this quite matters.

The problem of java files is that DBW1916 is "born in sin"  ;) using the frankenplanes made by Beo as a basis for new planes, and often without re-editing the java files, thence problems with turrets, guns, and such, not to speak of the cockpit instruments. A lot of new ww1 planes have inherited java files with a lot of junk. I had to re-write "clean" java files for this new pack.

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Mission_bug

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2016, 12:33:26 PM »

Hello Dreamk, thank you very much for the link and the explanation, greatly appreciated. 8)


Take care.

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. ;D
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Dreamk

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2016, 04:42:43 AM »

Some update: The Ansaldo A1, Sikorsky S-16ser and S16-3, S-12 and S12-bis are completed, cockpit and skis included.
I have added some goodies to their cockpits, such as the fuel four ways cocks on the Ansaldo rotating  in accordance with the various phases of the starting of the engine and with the amount of fuel remaining in the main tank, as well a functional gun trigger. On the S-12bis, a map holder (reproduced from an example having belonged to an Ilya Muromets) with a Russian military map from the period.
The overheating problem that has plagued so many ww1 aircraft in the game has been solved - a couple of suitable code lines in java has enable to solve this problem and reproduce the heating characteristic of the castor Oil of the period (no more oil temperatures rising to 300C! an the like) and to keep overheating happening after over-revving for a reasonable period of time (still a short one, but more that a few milliseconds, as it was in reality).
Similarly water will not heat (a fortiori not overheat) in rotary engines...where it was not present at all, cooling being done through air movement and expelling oil!
Gnome rotary engines now have a idle regime at about 800 rpm, as historically. The FM give now good results (when tested via Infomod) concerning speed at various heights.
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SAS~Poltava

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2016, 05:22:21 AM »

Good to hear about this steady progress! Really looking forward to this project, that will bring the Eastern Front of WW1 alive again!  :)
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Alfie Noakes

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2016, 12:00:39 PM »

+ 1  :)

Quote
The overheating problem that has plagued so many ww1 aircraft in the game has been solved - a couple of suitable code lines in java has enable to solve this problem and reproduce the heating characteristic of the castor Oil of the period (no more oil temperatures rising to 300C! an the like) and to keep overheating happening after over-revving for a reasonable period of time (still a short one, but more that a few milliseconds, as it was in reality). 

Dreamk = genius  :D

Wow, it looks like you've cracked the overheating problem....so it was the Castor Oil after all  :D

Cheers

Alfie
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Dreamk

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2016, 06:46:03 AM »

Some updates:
I have been busy this week with rotary-engined airplanes
The FM of the S16ser, S16-3, S12, S12bis, MoscaMB, Mosca MBbis are now adequate to historical data.
Cockpit S16s and S12s finished, of Moscas - 80% done.
Dealing the MoscaMB and its 50Hp engine, while respecting historical data,  was especially troublesome, but we are now after that, and the plane is a pleasure to fly in spite of its low speed (or maybe because of it). The MB bis is a very sweet small fighter, quite nimble and comparatively fast (130kmh top speed - "everything is relative:))").

I have now recreated the controls of rotary engine by simple addition to the existing motor class:
- For Gnome 50Hp and 80Hp no control except blipping. As you put the contact the engine rpm raises to 1200 rpm. Control in air is by raising/lowering the nose of the plane or by blipping, as it was historically (fuel mix could be modified but on the ground only - when you were in air, no intervention was possible, except cutting admission or/and ignition) .
The Eteve and Pensuti airspeed indicators meshes are already exported but not yet integrated in the game - their use was critical with these engines, they were in fact stall indicators and contributed to drastically reduce flying accidents in the years 1911-1916.

- For Gnome Monosoupape 100Hp, no control throttle, but the control mix allows you to modulate the engine regime: As you put the contact, the rpm raise to 1200rpm, but by acting on the control mix command you can make this variate in the 800 to 1300 rpm range (in a way a "limited throttle" would do). If control mix is 0 (no fuel admission in the cylinders) this stops the engine.  Blipping is enabled.

- For Le Rhone engines, throttle and control mix are both active and control the range between 200 to 1300 rpm. Blipping is enabled. However I still need to find a way to make the throttle "lazy" - the response time of these engines to throttle variation was in the order of 7 seconds, therefore most air fighting was done without using the throttle.

This brought me to check historical data about ww1 propellers, their weight and pitches. Very interesting stuff. Most propellers were in the range 5 to 7 kg, with diameters ranging to 2.45 to 2.6m with few notable exceptions (the huge propellers of the early Voisin for instance). The historical values of the pitch angles of these propellers are particularly problematic as propeller management in Il2 is notoriously badly managed, even for fixed pitch propellers.

I'll see later whether (or not) I can extract all these changes from the modified motor class into as new rotary class that would extend the motor class. This would ease compatibility with game engine modifications.

More updates soon.
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Alfie Noakes

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2016, 08:02:49 AM »

Quote
  Blipping is enabled 

 :P  Boy O Boy   :P
I am so looking forward to this release

Cheers

Alfie
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RealDarko

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2016, 03:41:28 AM »

Looking forward to see this babys flying!!
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SAS~Poltava

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2016, 10:33:16 AM »

Yes indeed! Keep up the EXCELLENT work here!  :)
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Dreamk

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Re: Krasnyi Vostock - Orient is Red
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2016, 09:43:02 PM »

Blipping - Blipping consisted in modifying the ignition sequence (not stopping a number of cylinders from functioning) , and consequently reducing the overall engine moment and therefore the engine expressed power.

However this was true when you were on ground with the engine running, while, in air, the situation was somehow more complex, as blipping did not cut the ignition, thence the bloc engine- propeller went on gearing. As in some situations, the propeller moment could be superior to the engine moment, and the propeller being bolted to the engine, the engine moment was then "dictated" by the propeller. In these cases, the effect of the blipping was felt only when the propeller moment decreased under the engine moment value. In other terms, you needed first to put your aircraft's nose up to reduce your rpm under 1200/1300rpm, then begin blipping. If you needed to reduce engine power/speed fast and for sure, the best way, as advised in ww1 manuals, was to cut ignition, something that would stop the engine and the propeller from gearing, and glide to earth.

In Il2 all this can be done rather straightforward, as Il2 uses energy moments (engine moment and propeller moment) as a basis for the engine part of the flight model - and not power, something that, interestingly, was heavily criticized in the past, as it is a source of error if the propellor's reductor value is different from 1 - but with rotary engine, where the propeller is bolted to the engine hub and rotating together with the engine, this reductor value is always 1.

So the blipping in the Gnome engine enables to reduce the expressed power (by modifying the engine moment as in historical reality) from 1200rpm to 1000 rpm then to 800 rpm, then to 0, cutting ignition. As in real blipping, so long you have not cut the ignition you can "blip back" from 800 to 1000 rpm or from 100 to 1200 rpm without need to restart the engine. Remember that restarting the engine in mid-air demands a minimal remaining speed and altitude to be able to do so.

(note: Later in war, the 160hp Gnome 9N has up to 5 different possibilities of blip position (0, 200 rpm, 400 rpm, 800rpm, 1000 rpm, 1200 rpm), however it has also a throttle allowing it to pass from 600 to 1200 rpm, so the blip was used, if necessary, only at start up, taxi, and landing. )

In a dive, shutting off the fuel was still a valid practice, even with later rotaries, as opposed to blipping. .
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