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[deSAD]

... I think it was more olive drab than brown.

Olive drab (talking about olive drab, used in the USAF?) was used to camouflage the Red Army Air Force aircraft? I do not think that this is possible After all, camouflage aircraft - is a science, not art

[BlackAce7727]

See what I mean I am c**p at VVS paint schemes. German ones and RAF types I can get along with.

[max_thehitman]

I read it somewhere once that the Soviets also used industrial paints some times used
to paint agriculture tractors. An industrial green and black paint color, because aircraft paint
was not ready available in large quantities , because of the German invasion "Barbarossa".

This website may be helful for colors.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html

But I still like the skin colors used by eMeL on this airplane. I enjoy looking at them and
flying with them.

[vpmedia]

The problem with this interpretation is that if you desaturate it the green/black colors become indistinguishable.
This would mean that on b&w photos you wont be able to see color demarcations at all.
I get why people dont like the Pilawskii book, but theres no need to attack him personally like here:
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1496.0

The "specialist" there makes the claim, I quoute:

accordink to known documents, a green-green camouflage was never considered in the standards of the VVS

I dont see any links to these known documents, but look what I've found on his personal website:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/white04.html
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/colors2.html

Ooops

[deSAD]

The problem with this interpretation is that if you desaturate it the green/black colors become indistinguishable.
This would mean that on b&w photos you wont be able to see color demarcations at all.

This opinion is hard to disagree

I dont see any links to these known documents ...

There are quite a substantial monograph on the subject (with references to the documents, in particular), but in Russian

... but look what I've found on his personal website ... Ooops

This is not a "camouflage scheme", strictly speaking. Judging by the arrangement of spots, repainting the aircraft is in the field. Since this is the MiG, it can be assumed that the aircraft was originally painted for the "pre-war" scheme, that is, all upper surfaces were painted in green "protective" color (probably A II Z), and then on top were plotted spots camouflage paint AMT-4. While Yak-1M is to be colored by a "standard" factory scheme camouflage in colors AMT-4 and AMT-6, thus approximately ...

Sincerely, deSAD

[vpmedia]

I've found a book by Massimo Tessitori, owner of the mig3.sovietwarplanes.com site



Here's what he says about the two tone green camo:



My personal opinion is that 2 green tone camo can be a wrong interpretation but I havent seen any ultimate proof yet. Some b&w photos show something which works as a two tone green camo, for example this: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/white04.html

 I'm gonna check my book collection, I remember some german color photos of russian wrecks which maybe showed two tone green camo. The real problem is that there arent russian color photos from that era. Imho the colors Pilawskii used are two intensive/too saturated, I tried to correct this in my recent VVS skins.

I also think that Emels VVS skins are some of the best and are historically accurate.

[deSAD]

I've found a book by Massimo Tessitori, owner of the mig3.sovietwarplanes.com site. Here's what he says about the two tone green camo ...

Not quite In fact, he reasons that ...

... this could mean that the use of dark green was predominant, or that black faded very quickly, or that black was over-sprayed in a thin layer over the green background.

The last sentence, by the way, looks very believable, since the pre-war scheme camouflage upper surfaces of the Soviet aircraft assumed their painting in monochrome green.

I also think that Emels VVS skins are some of the best and are historically accurate.

Oh, yes, I agree

[deSAD]

Yak-7B "White 113"7 flown by Sgt. M. Kibkalov of 163 IAP, Kursk, Central Front, spring 1943.

Maybe it makes sense to make the skins for the rest of Kibkalov's YAKs?..

Additional information not available ATM.

Pilot-soldier Mikhail Moiseevich Kibkalov. I'm sorry, but in Russian

[deSAD]

@eMeL
Another interesting "sweet couple". Aircraft on which was fighting Colonel Aviation Anatoly Sergeyevich Morozov ...

Maybe you could make skins for them?

[henkypenky]

I'm sorry for having fired this discussion up, as  camouflage is probably one of the most difficult subjects there is. And I never ever have any doubt about the quality of Emel's skins. I even applied once for President of the Emel fanclub.  I remember from my modelling days we had these discussions over and over again; my green is better than yours etc. There it was said one had to make a model of plane 'X' on day 'Y' to be accurate. Sad thing was that lots of guy's lost interest in modelling due to these 'rules'. So I never criticise a skinner, being afraid that he will stop skinning and I (we) are without skins. I simply don't use skins I don't like. And I'll stick to guy's that do serious research on the subject, like Sovietwarplanes.com, for my info.
 

[vpmedia]

Lets take a look at that serious research.
Why are they are making conclusions based on overexposed photos?
Why werent those images corrected with the photosop levels tool?
Those digital images theyre using went thru the photographic, printing and scanning process which makes them unreliable.
For a serious work you would need professional scans of the original (very good quality done by real photographer) photograps raw material in uncompressed eps, psd or tiff format.

[henkypenky]

Hi Istvan, let us please not start a discussion on the 'evidence' used at sovietwarplanes. First most Russian wartime pictures are of a terrible quality, normaly they would be thrown away. And the discussion is not if a colour is FS34079 or FS34077, as there are so many influences on paint. Check out the skin sites and see the varity of Olive Drab colours.
IMHO sovietwarplanes is serious enough.