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Author Topic: LOD's  (Read 3828 times)

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Mick

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 08:37:17 AM »


If some body interested and have time -- that means Do it again

i am interested, and i can make the time - i just don't know what i need to do... my 3d knowledge is minimal....

... first buy and stock booze, coffee and aspirin ...?  8)
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Greif11

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 08:55:04 AM »

For that work you need Mesh converter.exe
Open mesh  Uncheck boxes as shown on screenshot



Save as mesh(text) In different folder with same name



After you must open each saved mesh with notepad and add LOD0 distance

Quote
//Generated by MshReader 1.16 by Dr.Jones

[Common]
NumBones 0
 FramesType Single
 NumFrames 1

[LOD]
3000
[Materials]
Gloss1D0o
Matt1D0o

[FaceGroups]
96 114
0 0 18 0 8 0
1 18 78 8 106 0
............................................

One by one you got single LOD plane
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BRGDS Andrew

SAS~Malone

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 08:59:07 AM »

thanks Greif, that helps a lot - i will start experimenting over the weekend.
love your desktop background, btw! :D
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.....taking fun seriously since 1968.....  8)

Greif11

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 09:03:11 AM »

I've got too much backgrounds. Some time i need time to pause to think about what to do with Mods and make backgrounds and desktop icons.
Some time very very provocative. ;)
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BRGDS Andrew

SAS~Malone

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 09:06:35 AM »

lol, my desktop background cycles through my 'Bonjour Madame' picture collection, to which i religiously add each day's newest 'eye fracture' :D
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WxTech

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 02:37:23 PM »

As a test one could take an existing plane mod for LODs, alter the values so as to ensure the lowest LODs are for *huge* distance, then set LOD0 for some nearer (but still suitably far) distance than all the others. Set up a flight of a great many of these planes in formation and see what happens to frame rates at a variety of distances.

Or better yet, delete LODs 1 and larger (and making the appropriate changes, if required, to the collision box data???)

This is likely not the same as having a *variety* of planes, due to the one model and skin being used. But then again, the presence of the other LODs the game has to 'keep track of' could add further processing overhead, either compensating for our simpler 'one-model' case,or perhaps even making for a larger hit on frame rates than would a bunch of different planes having only LOD0.  In any event, at least the large number of polygons to handle in our 'one-model' test should furnish a decent enough first go at assessing the possibilities...
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erafitti

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2016, 11:52:44 PM »

My lod experience.

I removed the more distant 109E-lods (lods 6-5-4) and have standardized the remaining (distances to 50-250-400-800).
In tests, the result seems to be acceptable.



Mesh Lod distante 50 = 125 m.??? in map
Mesh Lod distante 250 = 625 m. in map
Mesh Lod distante 400 = 1000 m. in map
Mesh Lod distante 800 = 2000 m. in map

I did something similar with the Arado.



Lods 5-4 removed and lods 0-1-2-3 to 50-250-400-800 distances

Un saludo.

Sorry for my bad English I use a translator.
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greybeard

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2016, 12:00:01 AM »

I am working on Bf 109E-1 and E-3 setting only LOD0 to 3000 m, according to Greif's guideline. First results are promising. A lot of work, though; at least 18 meshes to manage for each plane model. During tests, no drop in framerate, notwithstanding my rig is at the bottom of low end PC's (see specs below). Also need to harmonize with other modders' work (e.g.: Jero). I plan to do all Bf 109 variants and Ju 87 too; I don't think other plane models are so badly needed to be massaged.

Happy flying,
GB
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erafitti

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2016, 12:16:11 AM »

For test.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/otfuodl4d3utd8y/Bf-109E-4.rar

Bf-109E-4 of Ultimate Pack v4. All addons included.

Un saludo.
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Birdman

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2016, 07:42:26 AM »

Great to see others interested in LODs, but why are you removing LODs completely? Isn't it enough to make transition distances long enough so that it isn't too visible and fix all those many bugs due to incorrect LOD distances in MODs?

Do Bf-109 in DBW and Ultimate Pack v4 look too bad? I've tried to adjust proper LOD distances for them, and I'm responsible for the difference between v4.09m and UP3/DBW/later. Maybe I was a bit too careful back then and didn't increase LOD distances enough. Anyway, that's mostly outdated now after JapanCat's and Jero's new 3D rework. I've actually forgotten to release my fixed version of Jero's latest Bf-109 update with all LOD distances once again adjusted (longer than before this time, so should look almost perfect) and some other bugs like markings and loadout issues fixed. Thus, I have fixed versions of latest Bf-109 3D models hidden in my DBW install and pretty much finished, but I didn't have time to test properly and release them. Just let me know if you want to help me with testing.

I've also fixed many more planes that I just haven't had time to test properly and release, for example Ki-51 and He-111 with less buggy LODs, P-47 family with many fixes and Lysander, F7F and others that won't disappear way too close anymore. I also started fixing IL-2 LODs that are very ugly, but there's just too many variants to fix in reasonable time without proper tools. Anyway, I've got Il-2MEarly ready for testing if there's someone interested.

There's unfortunately many LOD bugs in mods (gaps, missing parts etc. at different distances) due to bugs in modding tools, and I've used a lot of time to fix at least almost all of them for UP3/DBW and later MODs with many fixes still unreleased. MshConverter 1.16 is actually buggy so that it always disables last LOD due to one missing value in [LOD] section and in many cases (but not all) reads values incorrectly so that they're differences of correct values. There's 1.18 version (possibly still not publicly available) that reads all LOD values but still as differences for most meshes. However, we need batch conversion of meshes from binary to text format to fix LOD issues easily enough, so I hope someone could program tool that converts all binary meshes of complete plane folder to text format easily. Then another simple tool needed is code that just finds [LOD] section in those meshes and replaces values after it with some given values. I privately got one such tool, but it's still buggy so that it messes up all binary meshes without detecting them and replaces also comment lines like "//edit these yourself" with extra LOD value. Thus, a bit better tool for editing LOD values is needed to avoid messing up all binary meshes and comments in [LOD] section so that those meshes won't load anymore in game.

Thus, I have a suggestion for fixing this LOD problem. First, I hope someone could program proper tools that allow easy conversion of meshes from binary to text format and LOD value editing. Then I can start taking requests for planes with bad LODs and fix one family in a couple hours (or less with good tools or small families). For many MODs I may already have fixed version in my DBW install that I've just forgotten to release. I'd like to fix LODs of all buggy planes because I don't want to see those bad LODs anymore but I don't want removal of LODs either.

Unfortunately, HSFX and CUP likely have many of my fixes missing, so there's likely more LOD and other bugs than in UP3/DBW. I just haven't had time to test and fix all that again after all the hard work I did for UP3/DBW, so I hope I would get some help with comparing files and testing all my released and unreleased fixes in CUP. I'm still using DBW because of all those missing fixes and also too many unnecessary plane slots in CUP.

To erafitti: I'd recommend that last LOD value is 2000-4000 depending on the size of plane, otherwise it may switch to dot too close at least at some FOV, resolution and detail level settings. At least for me at normal FOV 1920x1200 max settings LOD value 1000 means 1 km, and dot appears at that distance, so 800 as last LOD value will cause invisible planes at 800-1000 m distance. I hope you'll test my currently unreleased Bf 109 before using too much time for editing more variants. My version likely isn't 100% compatible with v4.09m installs without latest Bf 109 pack installed, though, but fixing compatibility should be a lot better option than editing old 3D.
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greybeard

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2016, 11:38:32 AM »

Dear Birdman,

your work in DBW is impeccable, IMHO. I started this thread mainly (if not only) for my favorite install which is 4.09+UP2.01. Also latest stock game versions, AFAIK, have better LOD's than the old dynosaur I run. :)

I think removal of LOD's (that's to say leaving the sole LOD0) is the perfect solution, since it avoids all work on simplified models for far distances, while giving no loss in framerate (at least on my even more old rig).

I've just posted here first stage of my WIP.
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Birdman

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Re: LOD's
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2016, 12:35:34 PM »

So far I've noticed one issue with planes that only have LOD0. Sometimes all glass parts in external model disappear when there's another similar plane visible at distance. That's likely due to too small glass polygon messing up some calculations and can also happen with planes that have LODs if there's glass in distant LODs. For Bf 109 I've removed glass parts from distant LOD models to avoid this issue.

I've also noticed FPS issues at least once when I played old HSFX online and there were a lot of still invisible AI Zeros coming in from one direction. FPS dropped a lot when that direction was visible and I had issues turnfighting there. Those Zeros had old Japancat's 3D update with buggy 9999 value for LOD0.
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