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Author Topic: Invisible Trees with Forest=3  (Read 5950 times)

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SAS~Storebror

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Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« on: October 21, 2015, 06:18:11 AM »

Hi folks,

I know that this bug exists for as long as IL-2 1946 does, nevertheless I think it's worth mentioning it again so others might be aware of it, not like me - I've searched a day for the reason of this bug.
The effect of the bug we're talking about is this:

When you set "Forest=2" in your conf.ini "OpenGL" section, you see something like this:


But when you set "Forest=3", you see this:


Cool, fly-through trees?
No!
You can't see them, but you can collide with them (that's why the smokepile is there in the images above).

What the... ?!?
Yep, exactly.
This happens when a mission maker puts specific tree objects on the map in the Full Mission Builder.
In Stock game, for instance Objects 165 and 166 are famous for causing the "invisible tree" bug.
In Ultrapack 3 for instance, we have a lot more tree objects, of which these have the bug:
Code: [Select]
  ID    Name
 514 FurnitureTreeLine
 516 MongolyaTreeLine_Mongol
 517 MongolyaTreeLine_Mongol1
 544 FurnitureTreeLine1
1731 FurnitureTreeLine2
1732 FurnitureTreeLineW1
1733 FurnitureTreeLineW
1734 LineAUT
1735 Line_W-AUT
...whereas these trees work fine regardless the "Forest" setting:
Code: [Select]
  ID    Name
 513 FurnitureTree2
 515 FurnitureTreeBroad1
 518 FurnitureNTL_Tree
 519 DeadTree1
 520 buisson
 521 arbre_fonce
 522 Broad1-clair
 523 Acacia_tree
 524 FurnitureTreeolive
 525 FurnitureTreeBroad2
 526 FurnitureTreeBouganvillea
 527 FurniturePalmAg1
 528 FurniturePalmAg2
 529 FurniturePalmAg3
 530 FurniturePalmBg1
 531 FurniturePalmBg2
 532 FurniturePalmAs1
 533 FurniturePalmAs2
 534 FurniturePalmBs1
 535 FurniturePalmBs2
 536 FurnitureTreeBanana
 537 FurnitureTreeBanana2
 538 FurnitureTreeHops
 539 FurnitureTreeBananas
 540 FurnitureTreeBamboo
 541 FurnitureTreeFlame_tree
 542 FurnitureTreeFlame_tree2
 543 FurnitureTreeYellow
 545 FurniturePalm1Ag1
 546 FurniturePalm1Ag2
 547 FurniturePalm1Bg1
 548 FurniturePalm1Bg2
 549 FurniturePalm1As1
 550 FurniturePalm1As2
 551 FurniturePalm1Bs1
 552 FurniturePalm1Bs2
 553 FurniturePalm2Ag1
 554 FurniturePalm2Ag2
 555 FurniturePalm2As1
 556 FurniturePalm2As2
 557 Egypt_palm_01
 558 Egypt_palm_02
 559 Egypt_palm_03
 560 Egypt_palm_04
 561 Egypt_palm_05
 562 Egypt_palm_06
 563 Egypt_palm_07
 564 Egypt_palm_08
 565 Egypt_palm_09
 566 Egypt_palm_10
 567 Egypt_palm_11
 568 Egypt_palm_12
 569 Egypt_tree_01
 570 Egypt_tree_02
 571 Egypt_tree_03
 572 Egypt_tree_04
 573 Egypt_tree_05
 574 Egypt_tree_06
 575 Egypt_tree_07
 576 Egypt_tree_08
 577 Egypt_tree_09
 578 Egypt_tree_10
 579 Egypt_tree_11
 580 Egypt_tree_12
 581 Egypt_bush_01
 582 Egypt_bush_02
 583 Egypt_bush_03
 584 Egypt_bush_04
 585 Egypt_bush_05
 586 Egypt_bush_06
 587 Egypt_bush_07
 588 Egypt_bush_08

Notice something?
Yep, the buggy ones are all "lines of trees" whereas the working ones are solitary trees.
Apparently the game does something "magic" with such "lines of trees", and this "magic" doesn't work when "Forest=3" is set.

It's a bummer, but all you can do is to use "Forest=2" only when you cannot be sure that there are no "tree lines" on the map, and you actually can never really be sure about that unless you made the map and mission by yourself.

Best regards - Mike
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Mick

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2015, 08:06:58 AM »

THX for the explanation, Mike ...!  ;)

It's a long time since I last used Forest=3, partly because I thought this setting was bewitched (and now I know this isn't the case ...) , and also to save a few FPS ...  :P
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2015, 09:42:22 AM »

Ah, OK, read sth. about it... long ago
So Forest 2, Thanks for the hint Mike.
I just noticed such a bug once while in my vain to train road Landings
somewhere on QMB Maps peripheries. Explaines why my wingtips where cut.
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Nicholaiovitch

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2015, 10:28:12 AM »

I remember the very first time this caught me out.....probably in 2004!

I pleaded on the then active Ubisoft Forum to fix it at the next official update but as you say Mike......I guess we will have to live with it.

Here is the picture sequence I posted at the time:-

"forest=3".........nice obstacle free approach!!?


A couple of seconds later........jumped a mile out of my seat!!


After looking at the mission in FMB and seeing the trees near the threshold.....experiment with settings and finally set "forest=2"
Same threshold....same mission....requires approach through the gap!!


Thanks for the reminder.

Bounder ;)
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Epervier

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2015, 03:22:03 PM »

You are right !

You can add these trees which work very well:
xxxx    FurnitureSpTreeLine        3do/Tree/SpLine/live.sim
xxxx    FurnitureAutTreeLine       3do/Tree/autLine/live.sim
xxxx    FurnitureAutTreeLine1      3do/Tree/autLine1/live.sim

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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 04:29:54 AM »

...and mission builders do what?
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 05:56:40 AM »

That might or might not work, however from a player's perspective, what other than setting Forest=2 can you do?
Rely on the map and mission builders having avoided the critical trees?
I think if those who did so and smashed into an invisible tree would come together, that'd fill a stadium.

Best regards - Mike
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Epervier

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 07:39:34 AM »

...and mission builders do what?
OpenGL and Forest=3

FMB or mission = ok ! these trees visibles !
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Epervier

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 08:01:44 AM »

OpenGL and Forest=3
FMB or mission = ok ! these trees visibles !
So, mappers got a visible solution for unvisible 3do trees now. Maybe need to check this 3do trees properties & all outher tree objects make visibles too.
The "foliage" is very different ... but I am not an expert in graphic3D / skin ...!
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SAS~Storebror

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 08:06:03 AM »

I tried to give other users a broad hint, but now everything turns into a mess of people talking about different things.

Guys, read and understand:
The problem is that in stock games Objects 165 and 166 become invisible when a user has this setting in conf.ini:
Code: [Select]
Forest=3(remark: I've read from very few users that they claim not to have this issue with their ATI card based system, so this might "only" happen to all Nvidia and 99% of ATI users)

The same thing happens to many more objects in larger mod game packs, e.g. for Ultrapack it happens with all these objects:
Code: [Select]
  ID    Name
 514 FurnitureTreeLine
 516 MongolyaTreeLine_Mongol
 517 MongolyaTreeLine_Mongol1
 544 FurnitureTreeLine1
1731 FurnitureTreeLine2
1732 FurnitureTreeLineW1
1733 FurnitureTreeLineW
1734 LineAUT
1735 Line_W-AUT

Since as a player I have no idea and no choice what type of objects a map maker put on his map, and what type of objects a mission maker put in his mission, for players the only safe way to avoid invisible trees is to set
Code: [Select]
Forest=2in conf.ini.
Period.

If you think that's wrong, then please provide a fully working alternative solution for players.
Read: Not for map makers.
Read: Not for mission makers.
Read: Fully working, not something like "but if you replace this and that, then in theory it should" - no, it doesn't.

Best regards - Mike
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Blaubaer

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 11:23:44 AM »

 ;D
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KiwiBiggles

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Re: Invisible Trees with Forest=3
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2015, 06:13:33 PM »

Can't argue with Mike's logic - the only way for players to avoid invisible trees is forest=2.

I'll put myself out on a limb, and point out that things are even worse than that.  Missions and campaigns, in addition to invisible trees, are routinely ruined (for me at least; more specifically, for my AI wingmen) by dysfunctional airfield layouts, and even dysfunctional terrain elevations in the approaches and landing patterns; even on stock maps!

Personally, the best way I find to enjoy the game is to start with the map editor (forest=2, ironically enough, in order to hand-place tree lines which are otherwise invisible of course), then the mission builder (forest=3), and custom design every mission, including the runway, taxi and parking waypoints... even the airfield environs and elevations.  When I finally get to play in-game, the mission is guaranteed to run smoothly, even on forest=3. 

Obviously, not the best solution for every player, or even most players, but, luckily, I enjoy my time in the map editor and mission planner at least as much as my time in-game. 

For quick and easy fun I just go for air-starts and finishes.  ;D


RAF Tangmere, before map editor





RAF Tangmere, after map editor





Mission builder







More map editor fun, RAF Manston, RAF Kenley, RAF Hornchurch and RAF Biggin Hill. Guaranteed no invisible trees.  Or AI gremlins; mostly.

Just sayin'.  :)

(click to embiggen pics in photobucket, 1920x1080 full-size)
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