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Author Topic: Ki-44-II Pack  (Read 18936 times)

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greybeard

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2015, 04:41:23 PM »

Hi Rasta and thanks for your competent questions.

I think armament of the various types was exactly that I detailed in first post. Only a late version of Otsu was added in the pack, since after disappointing experience in Philippines with the 40 mm cannon, it was replaced by two more Ho-103. About  Ki-44-II Ko production number by Bueschel, it is simply wrong; I believe most reliable figures can be found on Wikipedia:

"355 produced (s/n 1001-1355)"

About default skin for Otsu, you are right: that's the pre-production Ki-44 typical camouflage, already changed in dark olive brown for serial production Ki-44-I. I shall take care of it in occasion of next update of the pack.

Cheers,
GB
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D.Rasta

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2015, 06:37:18 PM »

I think armament of the various types was exactly that I detailed in first post. Only a late version of Otsu was added in the pack, since after disappointing experience in Philippines with the 40 mm cannon, it was replaced by two more Ho-103. About  Ki-44-II Ko production number by Bueschel, it is simply wrong; I believe most reliable figures can be found on Wikipedia:

"355 produced (s/n 1001-1355)"

About default skin for Otsu, you are right: that's the pre-production Ki-44 typical camouflage, already changed in dark olive brown for serial production Ki-44-I. I shall take care of it in occasion of next update of the pack.

I also think that Bueschel made a mistake and it was built way more than three Ki-44-IIKo.

About next update of the pack... I would like to ask to make some additions....

- Add provision for cannons for Ki-44-IIOtsu with default armament like on this pictures:





not like this...



- Maybe add 37-mm Ho-203 cannons with 25 r.p.g. as another one option of weapons for Ki-44-IIOtsu like on this picture:



- Add Tube Gunsight fix.
I installed your pack from here http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=1670 and saw only this in SAS Modact 5.30 and in HSFX 7.03:



Than I downloaded Tube Gunsight fix for Ki-44 for 4.11.1 and 4.12.1 from here: http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,17493.36.html
and saw this:



not this (like Ki-43-I):




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greybeard

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2015, 02:17:02 AM »

- Add provision for cannons for Ki-44-IIOtsu with default armament like on this pictures:


I think that was an anomalous, unique instance: 40 mm cannons were either provided or not (like all kinds of "optional" armaments, in first line use there was no time to "fit and unfit"). Standard armament consisted of two cowl 12.7 mm machine guns.



Quote
- Maybe add 37-mm Ho-203 cannons with 25 r.p.g. as another one option of weapons for Ki-44-IIOtsu like on this picture:


Sources are contradictory about use of Ho-203; evidence you provided, for instance, looks inconsistent with other sources:




Quote
- Add Tube Gunsight fix.

I warned on M4T (see message at bottom) that this mod is not suited for HSFX; I hereby repeat that no fitting was made on this pack to ensure HSFX compatibility. All other your statements are right: thanks for posting the link to 4.12 compatible gunsight - I shall add that too in next update of this pack. About this:



that is the original aspect early developers of Ki-44-II-Ko gave to gunsight view; I agree it is quite odd and, above all, it masks too much of the field of view. I shall try to fix this too in the future.

Regards,
GB

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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2015, 05:17:07 AM »

That Dildo is a rubber or Metal attachment, sealing sort of cap on what seems 12,7mm, please note the very small
gun shell ejector ports and smaller barrel in appearance. Though you can see the Reflex gunsight clearly.



Another Bunrindo Publication "Japanese Army Air Forces Battle Photographs Collection
has a picture with English caption on page 60|61
Picture 144:
"A Shoki Model 2 of the 47th Squadron seen during refuelling.
The Muzzles of the wing cannons have been covered."




Clearly the Muzzle of 12,7mm HO, that small bulk at muzzle top
can't be overseen.



Now to 301 HO 40mm

The green arrow points to HO 301 cannon removed, what you see is the early barrel housing minus barrel and minus barrel cover.

Most pictures show up a larger cannon from above, with different mounting.
A longitudal bulky static housing, then a second type in sleakier appearance
with symetrical bulks, both rounded edges.
Both versions of actual 40mm barrel used a SpitfireV like conical cover, but a bit longer from
appearance to it's fitted mounting. Trace the shadow in this picture...

Early 301 HO mounting...

Avions #120
This is the larger type barrel housing + barrel cover mounted. Similar to the green Arrow picture.

Later type modified HO301 barrel mount.


Avions #120
This is a sleakier variant, I assume streamlined, thus late HO301 fitting. You see the naked barrel
lacking it's coverage.

Here is the late slim type with cover, a profile impression.

Avions #120

From what I see, size of mount varied drastically, while barrel cover retained in these versions.

Some kites lacked the barrel cover, hmm, maybe servicing was easier then...
OK, more



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greybeard

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2015, 06:20:52 AM »

Knochenlutscher

Thanks for your comments.

I don't think the Shoki ever mounted a 20 mm cannon. The gun cap you highglighted is visible on same Bunrindo Publication "Japanese Special aircraft of WWII" also fitted on model Ko (which unlikely could be armed with Ho-5) on page 24,  and barrel shown in picture you posted likely belongs to a Ho-103 (please watch following shot of a Ko):



also ammunition belt in same photo seemingly is composed of 12.7 mm rounds.

At any rate, when one enters, performing an historical research, in a "swamp" of arguable data, personally I prefer to rely on those where different sources and common sense concur.

About 40 mm cannon covers, I got the idea that there were two kinds (clearly visible also on photos you posted): one, so to speak, "slick" and one with little drop fairings. The third you depicted is probably a cover used on parked planes. Again, I like to trust in solid evidence, so we (me and Jero) chose second one since undoubtedly authentic and perhaps a bit more attractive than the slick one! ;)
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2015, 07:41:45 AM »

Yeah, I got it wrong, I'm late on the wire, I got deeply confused by that 37mm, than I
invented 20mm, both is 12,7mm.  o_O
Honestly these smaller non-40mm caps are a funny diversion, hope I haven't set you up too much,
excuse the dilemma.
Kind regards
Tobias
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greybeard

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2015, 02:45:32 AM »

... hope I haven't set you up too much,
excuse the dilemma.

Absolutely not! You're always welcome! ;)

Cheers,
GB
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D.Rasta

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2015, 05:01:38 PM »

That Dildo is a rubber or Metal attachment, sealing sort of cap on what seems 12,7mm, please note the very small
gun shell ejector ports and smaller barrel in appearance. Though you can see the Reflex gunsight clearly.

I think you are right and it is a cap on 12,7mm.

The same photo of Ki-44-II with tube gunsight:



I think that was an anomalous, unique instance: 40 mm cannons were either provided or not (like all kinds of "optional" armaments, in first line use there was no time to "fit and unfit"). Standard armament consisted of two cowl 12.7 mm machine guns.

Yes, this variant of removing 40 mm cannons was used in 87 sentai in Burma...
And I found some photos Ki-44-IIOtsu without any armament in wings similar to your photo.

Sorry for my mistakes.

One more photo of 40 mm cannon (I can't identify kind of cover):

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greybeard

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2015, 01:46:42 AM »

One more photo of 40 mm cannon (I can't identify kind of cover)

Hi Rasta, and thanks for your continued interest in this plane: it deserves it! :)

I don't think those are 40 mm cannons, judging by dimension; it looks like an umpteenth kind of gun covering - this time for 12.7 mm and opened on its tip - perhaps a protection against cold, if what is seen on the ground is snow or ice... :-|

In addition, a sort of drop fairing is visible under the wing, more or less where shell ejection chute should be. :-X

Regards,
GB
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2015, 05:22:29 AM »

Place is Kashiwa, Japan, Winter of 1944/45, I can trace white defence bands around hinomaru.
The Taiul bears a sort of Kanji Marking, but it's not enough to trace a unit.
That is the ubiquos catridge container I haven't traced before, seen on Bunrindo Technical drawings,
but now found pictures from Akeno Flightschool. It was a 12.7mm installation, you are right.


And here a funny completely different welded gun mounting or cover on "1213", note the streamlined slats


Here another catridge 12.7mm container boosting Shoki 28 of Akeno Hikoshidan

Kind Regards
Tobias
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greybeard

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2015, 10:56:20 AM »

Thanks for further information and nice photos! Definitely, you're a mine! :)

It looks the Shoki was sort of "test bed" along all its career, seemingly more than other Japanese first line fighters.

Can't notice the slats on "1213". :-X

Hi Tobias,
GB
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D.Rasta

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Re: Ki-44-II Pack
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2015, 05:52:28 PM »

I don't think those are 40 mm cannons, judging by dimension; it looks like an umpteenth kind of gun covering - this time for 12.7 mm and opened on its tip - perhaps a protection against cold, if what is seen on the ground is snow or ice... :-|

Yes, it's snow...
A lot of books contains too much mistakes!  :-X
In this one, autors interpret something in wings on below photo as Ho-203 cannon.

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