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Author Topic: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL  (Read 48445 times)

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Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« on: May 21, 2015, 05:34:57 PM »

Since Il2 began I've been frustrated by the torpedoes in the game - their 3d Models, their data, their lack of consistency.
A few months ago I decided to launch a full depth investigation on the SAS Superschool forum - the results were surprising, the situation being quite worse that I thought before. To make short, torpedoes are managed like bombs in the game with a very simple linear equation, without any sophistication. The problems include the use by the original game master coders of misunderstood historical data about impact angles, the inclusion of  rather fanciful  (to say the least...) impact speeds, and ....the fact that the game coders did not take into account the data figuring in the various torpedo classes since 4.11 : drop height and drop speed. Add to that the "weakness" of the historical data used for these torpedoes... The chute torpedoes are another issue - the physics is wrong but the effect is quite good and the result overall fine, but here too there was room for improvement.
Even if some improvement was felt from version to version of Il2, and the efforts of some modders to try and improve the situation (mainly concerning 3D, for instance JapanCat for Japanese torpedoes), the situation of torpedoes in the game has remained overall bad.

So...I took the challenge, and here's the result. :D

1) 3 D models for no less that  96 torpedoes using since the early thirties to 1945 (and beyond) by the various sides - in accordance with the correct dimensions and shape of the their historical models:
German 13 torpedoes 3 gliding torpedoes, 6 bomb-torpedoes
Italian 8 regular torpedoes, 4 regular mini-torpedoes, 2 circling torpedoes
British 14 torpedoes and 1 glide torpedo
Japanese 16 regular torpedoes, 1 circling torpedo and 1 circling anti-submarine torpedo
US 10 torpedoes, 1 gliding circling torpedo, 1 gliding bomb as bonus
Russian 7 regular torpedoes and 5 circling torpedoes

2) Recalculated values in accordance to historical data for each torpedo's drop enveloppe (max speed, min height, max height) - took me a time to gather these data as most "trustable" historical sources on the subject are rather esoteric. For torpedoes, it appears that there is a more than the regular lot of misinformation on the web (to begin by wikipedia and navweapons - though I had the surprise to discover that on the Japanese wikipedia someone corrected the most blatant mistakes of the English wikipedia) and I had to use all my connections in the EOD community to get the information needed. These values include:
correct name of torpedo
weight of torpedo
explosive charge (power)
radius of explosion damage
max drop speed
max drop height
min drop height
speed in water (velocity)
range in water (travel time)
max impact angle
min impact angle
impact speed.

I didn't change the original formulas of the game, just made the data consistent between them, using these formulas for calculations of the resulting impact speed and angles.
However I include in a separate, optional folder called !_AerialTorpedo_class_upgraded an improved Torpedo.class that displays during the game messages including information about these various parameters when the torpedo enters in water - quite useful for training.

4) a few goodies - if already doing this kind of thing - Gliding torpedoes (the US GT-1, the British Toraplane II, the German LT950C, LT950D - early and late),  the German Bv143 the gliding-torpedo-missile-bomb and the GB-1 US Glide bomb (not a glide rocket, a glide bomb - the BAT bomb currently in the game behave as a rocket not as a glide bomb - US glide bombs had a 5:1 glide ratio as a general rule)

I include separate folder containing cod files, hashed java files and meshes so as the following planes will be appear in the game equipped with all this arsenal:
this includes the A-20C, A-20G, B6N2, B17F, B25J1, G4M1_11, Il4_DB3T, Ju88A4Torp, Ju88A17, PBN1, Re2002, SM79, Swordfish 1, TB3-4M17, TBM3
This folder is named AerialMinesCodFiles so it will copy over the already present AerialMinesCodFiles folder (if you have installed the Aerial Mines) and update the cod files uploaded with the Aerial mines[/u]

Included is a pdf file with the relevant data on these torpedoes (max drop height and max drop speed being the most relevant of course)

Download link:

As usual:
This mod is for 4.12 and has been tested on SAS modact 5.30 (I used the Pacific Islands map and friendly/ enemy ship as targets).
This package is freeware.
This software may be freely used, copied and distributed with the following restrictions:
1) the present post must be included as a "Readme" text file.
2) DO NOT place these files anywhere that requires a fee for downloading.
3) DO NOT place any of these files in any commercial package or any CD collection without the authors consent.

Original 3dModel, Java Files, FM: Dreamk

Theses files should not cause any problems with your computer, but we accept no responsibility if you think it does.

Thanks to Oleg Maddox and Qtim for creating Il2 and opening the gates to Mod creation, to Kumpel for his matrix tool, and thanks to SAS for enabling modders to share their knowledge on Il2 modding.




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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 05:55:51 PM »

Catalog of the torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes in the pack:

1. German
F5B Practice
F5 / F5A
F5B  with ring stabilizer
F5BK-3  with K-3 stabilizer
F5BL2 with L2 stabilizer

F5W with Ring stabilizer
F5W with Tail stabilizer

LT950D Early
LT950D Early  Open

LT950D late
LT950D late Open

LT950C Open

Bv143 Open (probing arm deployed under fuselage)

2. Italian

Siluro GR Crocchi WA130
Si170 with Tail1 stabilizer
F200 with Tail1 stabilizer
F200 with Tail2 stabilizer

Si200 with Tail3 stabilizer
Silurotto WA250
Silurotto W200
Silurotto CNA125
Silurotto SB120

3. British

MkXIF (F = "whiskers" on the nose pistol)
MkXI with DrumGear stabilizer
MkXIF with DrumGear stabilizer

Toraplane II
MkXII with MAT-I stabilizer

MkXIIFwith MAT-I stabilizer

MkXV with MAT-IV stabilizer
MkXV with MAT-V stabilizer
MkXV withMAT-V  stabilizer Open

4. Japanese

Type4mod6 (AS, circling)
Type91mod1 with Tail1 stabilizer
Type91mod2 with Tail2 stabilizer

Type91mod2 with Tail3 stabilizer
Type91mod2 with Tail4a stabilizer
Type91mod3-4_Tail3 stabilizer
Type91mod3-4_Tail4a stabilizer

Type91mod7 with Tail4b stabilizer
Type91mod7 with Tail4a stabilizer
Type91modQS (circling)
Type4mark4 with Tail4b stabilizer
Type4mark2 with Tail4a stabilizer

5. American

Mk13mod1-2 / Mk13mod2A
Mk13mod8 (with drag chute, not circling, tested successfully but not produced during ww2)


GT-1 (circling), GT-1 Open


6. Russian

TAV-15 (45-15 V-A) (chutes, circling)

TAV-12 (45-12AV-A) (chutes, circling)
45-36AN / 45-36ANU
45-36AN-TM18 with rack T18
45-36AN-S (IL-4) with Sagayduk / Kravtsev stabilizer as seen on IL-4s
45-36AN-S  with Sagayduk / Kravtsev stabilizer

45-36AN42 with "cylindrical" stabilizer
45-36AV-A (mod 39 and mod 42) (chute, circling)
45-36CN-45  with "circle and cross" stabilizer
TAV-27 (53-27AV-A) (chutes, circling)



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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 10:43:37 PM »

Amazing !


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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 10:47:05 PM »

Exactly my words too!  8)


Thank you so much DreamK.
I always wanted to try one of those flying torpedos with wings.... Its gonna be a "blast"  ;D

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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 11:12:15 PM »

Great work! many thanks DreamK!
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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 12:14:34 AM »

A few remarks:
1) Angles of impact
The torpedoes could penetrate water in a wide range of angles within the dropping envelop (max height and speed). However for training pilots were taught to try and obtain the angles that gave the best results - in term of precision, torpedo duds and such. Training was and is the key to success in combat and the American were the ones who understood this best than any other belligerent. Indeed, Luftwaffe Torpedo Squadron commanders kept demanding from their authorities to stop upgrading continuously the torpedoes as their pilots could not train enough on a model till a new model was introduced. Even with a bad torpedo, training gives acceptable results - without training an exceptional torpedo is useless.
Even when new more models of Mk13, with better performance, were introduced in late 44 - mid 45, the US pilots kept being trained for the optimum drop from 800' (240m) at 260 knots from a distance of 1400 yards (1300m). This yielded a water entry angle of about 28 degrees after a fall of 7 seconds over a horizontal distance of 1000 yards (900 m), plus an additional water run of 400 yards (370m). This does not mean that other angles in the drop envelop will result in a dud or a broken torpedo.
German pilots trained at the beginning of ww2 for an entry at between 11-12 degrees, the F5 and F5A in use during the first 2 years of war being fragile and needing slow speed low height approach. Now, on the table I included, you may see that the calculation using Il2 native formulas, gives for angles ranges corresponding to the drop envelop, 18.6 to 44 degrees. The reason of this discrepancy? simple, the formulas used for Il2 are wrong, and apply to a bomb being dropped without any drag. In real life a torpedo has a different ballistic, among over due to the drag it induces. The "tails" were mostly created to improve the flight of the torpedo in air and attain a better angle of penetration in water, this allowed to insure that the torpedo will not go towards the deeps but will re-orientate fast to the horizontal at the entrance in water and go towards its target.

2) Colors
Torpedoes were dull. They mostly remained in unpainted metal, often smeared with grease to prevent corrosion and insure a better course in water.
US Mk13 torpedoes bodies appeared as grey-yellowish brown due to the alloy sued combined with to the amount of grease smeared upon them.
Russian torpedo appear black on photographs, a coat of protective paint is a possibility but more probably is that it was due to the use of "gun metal" quality black steel .
The warheads of US Mk13 torpedoes were made from phosphorous bronze but were normally painted a primer grey color. As a matter of fact the plywood additions of later Mk13 were generally over-painted white and not let as natural wood color.
They were black for Japanese (due to the use of a black rubber nose cap on their torpedoes, enhancing course in water) - Sometimes the latex was natural color not black. The latex sheath looked then creamy white. Recollections of crew members of the Soryu, mention that the wooden tail surface were often painted with metallic paint so as to look as made in steel like the torpedo itself.
Torpedoes head were Whitish for some British torpedoes and light blue for some Italian torpedoes (some Silurifacio Baia Napoli products, not all). The tails were painted light blue or white.
German operational torpedoes were left natural metal overall like most British ones.

Training torpedoes had often colorful heads to help recovering them.
The red and white stripes of the Luftwaffe are well known (and I forgot that in the pack >:()
the Italian had a somehow similar but simpler design of red and white.
Japanese used the color of the carrier the planes belonged to:  red, white, black, green, yellow, brown, and blue. Once a fleet was allotted with a color, it used to go with the same one over certain long periods. The sequences red and white comes first, duly applied to senior fleets or senior carriers  in the order of red, white , then followed yellow green, brown and black.. 
I may include such practice torpedo heads in a next upgrade, though this means a new couple of java for each torpedo head variant, duplicate mesh folders and new bitmaps.

3) Current shortcomings of the pack
- the Siluro GR is supposed to be radio-guided in water. Currently it is not. This will be upgraded later.
- the mesh folders, if you looked at them, include already the meshes folder for the various BT BombenTorpedoes. I still wait for more details upon their mode of operation (some contradictions here among trusted sources) before releasing their java files.
- the German L2 tail  enabled a minimal radio-guidance in air - but not something that we can seen in the game resolution - it mainly acted on the angle of the torpedo in flight and in practice had a deceiving low impact on the flight.
- the LT1A3 is speculative - still looking for more authentic information.
- the bitmaps can be improved (for the mines still more than for the torpedoes) ;).....I'm not a paintshop artist.
- The Russian TAV-12 and TAV-27 are speculative, as I had no photo of them only descriptions and they fit the use of the standard Soviet mine/torpedo parachute system of the period. they were mainly experimental models, as only the TAV-15 went into production, and about this torpedo there is a remarkable research article written in the 70s that I may upload, its' worth it (but its in Russian....)
- The Bv143 sits presently under a Ju88 - and not really well - in fact it was not used on Ju88s but on He111 and therefore had no problem to seat at ease there - I'll upload soon a cod file including it within the He111he and H6 arrays.



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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 12:27:41 AM »

Perfect candidate for CUP !!!!
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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 01:00:04 AM »

Thanks for the Torpedo upgrade, working fine and giving me a chance to learn it better, now im going to play a Torpedo bomber Campaign


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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2015, 01:07:45 AM »

Absolutely amazing job!!! GREAT!!! And thanks!  :) :) :)
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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2015, 03:09:24 AM »

Superb work again Dreamk, you are really making a ground breaking contribution to the game with your weapon mods. Very much appreciate your efforts.

Cheers mate.



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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2015, 05:02:20 AM »

thanks a lot for this great update!
what I even more admire is the level of detail that went into this and the whole load of information you have worked into that mod!
may I ask where you did get that all from?
I recently bought a book about the development of the Torpedo but even that one does not contain that wealth of info on this wide variety of air launched torps...


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Re: Torpedoes and Gliding torpedoes Pack - Ready to DL
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2015, 05:49:34 AM »

I try always to look for the original documents - I had access for instance to to the manual of the F5w and F5B instance - and I am blessed with a lot of EOD friends I collected among my professional career and am an active member of the BOCN forum - so whenever I need it I can ask for suitable info, and generally receive it - on the forum or by private mail - I can also access Russian sources, and although the "specialized Russian books" contain often a lot of crap, you can find some fantastic research articles - such as the one on the TAV-15 or another on the F5w and its relationship to the development of late soviet torpedoes, or the report by Kratsev about the development of torpedo stabilizers and the Kratzev-Sagayduk polemic (enlightning...but as a matter of fact both did the right thing they were expected to do) and you cam gather a lot of pictorial info on the various Russian specialized forum, that are much more active that in the West . Same thing with the British - a lot of crap in the books (they copy one another the same stuff without checking) but the Journal of the RAF historical society and the Royal naval scientific service yield a lot of first class information, for instance on the British torpedo stabilizers and torpedo performances. And you have always the British patents that can be consulted if you know how to look for them in the patents databases (it's often tricky for defense related patents). For Japanese torpedoes, I put a hand upon the US Army and Navy Expert Reports on Japanese aerial torpedos and mines - published after Japan capitulation, when they examined captured equipment - as well as intelligence ordnance reports from wartime, and the various Naval Ordnance publications. Being able to read in a number of languages, helps obviously quite a lot.
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