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Author Topic: Help Requests  (Read 1788 times)

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Stainless

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Help Requests
« on: April 13, 2015, 09:46:42 AM »

I have some spare time at work, so I have decided to start getting together some code parts I will want later. I can't work on an of the code I currently am working on at home, security issues and networks ... that sort of thing.

So I want to do some interesting shaders

Can anyone out there give me some images of the radar in use on the phantom

Something that shows the symboligy when in air to air mode and what it actually looked like.

I want to see if I can create a shader to use in the cockpit which looks "right"
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creature

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2015, 11:47:29 PM »

hey stainless:

just happened to run across this on you tube.  About 1/2 way through there is a brief glimpse of the radar screen.



c
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"Can you put that in Captain dummy Talk"  Capt Malcom Reynolds // no sim pilots=no one to fly modded planes//no modders =no modded planes to fly

Stainless

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2015, 01:27:26 AM »

I found that one as well, it really confused me.

I'm pretty lost as to what's going on. I am assuming that over the life of the phantom, a lot of avionics were fitted. So we are seeing various different setups.

I am currently using some images I got from a Westinghouse document.




What I have so far is....

Front end




AWG 12





But I'm still confused as hell

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creature

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2015, 06:56:39 AM »

Welcome to the world of avionics:)))

Wings over Vietnam and Free falcon have nice phantom models of the radar.  Maybe you use those as a reference.

Yes as with all avionics, as technology advances, so do the cockpits.  You should see the inside of a Lear 25.  There are gauges all over the place.  A Cesna has a better arrangement:)

What is confusing you?  I'll be out of town for a few days, I'll get back to you then.
Later

c
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"Can you put that in Captain dummy Talk"  Capt Malcom Reynolds // no sim pilots=no one to fly modded planes//no modders =no modded planes to fly

Stainless

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 12:30:01 AM »

What is confusing me ?  ;D

Well the more I read about the Phantom, the more completely different data I get.

On one of the web sites a former Phantom jockey from the RAF talks about the radar being very difficult to get used to because it displayed targets based on closure rate. So a blip further up the screen is closing faster than a target at the bottom of the screen.

Another web site features a radar very similar to the one you posted, and gives an excellent discussion of ECM and ECCM (this is the one I will really have to study, ECM and ECCM will be worthwhile adding to the game)

Then you go to the manufacturers of the radar, and it's all completely different.

I have worked out that DVST and DSCG are different display technologies. So the set of images I got from Westinghouse are making sense.

I also have flight manuals for the Phantom which cover in detail the terrain following radar in all it's modes, but then I look at the cockpit and find the controls they talk about in the manual don't exist.

I think I will have to implement all the different radars as plug-ins and pick the correct configuration later for the mark of aircraft.

I really would like some kind of mapping between aircraft mark/ year / radar so at least we end up with something realistic.

And I need operation instructions for the radar. For example the data sheets I have at the moment show ten different display modes.

The B sweep display seems to move left to right in the display, I would like to know why. Does it just move based on mode? Or does it move based on some physical component?

I am short of data.

I'll see if I can get anything from the games you mentioned.

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creature

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 10:39:39 PM »

Stainless:

Quote
On one of the web sites a former Phantom jockey from the RAF talks about the radar being very difficult to get used to because it displayed targets based on closure rate. So a blip further up the screen is closing faster than a target at the bottom of the screen 

Before you get to wrapped around the axel about this radar thing, I would get (if you don't already) a few basics down about radar.  Look up the definitions of the following:

-Passive Radar
-Active Radar
-Doppler Radar

After that, consider this:

Quote
Then you go to the manufacturers of the radar, and it's all completely different.
 

Quote
I also have flight manuals for the Phantom which cover in detail the terrain following radar in all it's modes, but then I look at the cockpit and find the controls they talk about in the manual don't exist. 

#1.  Manufacturers manuals are the extreme vanilla of the radar manual when first delivered.  100's if not 1000's of revisions are issued during the life of the aircraft and it's avionics.  So 10 years after the plane/radar was delivered, the manual will be completely different than when first issued.  The only recognizable procedure may be the On/Off switch:))

#2.  We are talking about the "steam gauge" era here.  So you have to remember that you will be hard pressed to find two aircraft with identical cockpits!!  Sometimes the difference is as minuscule as a different switch design or it could be as obvious as the landing gear handle has been moved.  It would be no different than the subtle changes you would see in a 2014 Toyota, compared to a 2015 Toyota. 

#3.  Avionics and Aircraft are not always a package deal.  Same goes for Engines and Aircraft.  Avionics can be tailored to the buyers requests.  For example the Air Force may want an F4 with Terrain following radar, but the Navy doesn't.  Ten years later the Navy sells the airplane to the Air Force Reserve and they have to install the terrain following radar, but now the TFR is new and up to date and doesn't fit in the round hole, so they have to modify it to fit.  (Getting the idea now??).   Do a web search for the cockpit of a KC-135 from 1975.  Than, do KC-135 cockpit search for 2015 and you'll get what I'm talking about.  The blinds are not always going to match the shades on this one:))

#4.  All said and done, you may already know this BS I just told you:))   Bottom line:  Pick a radar that you think you understand and work on that.  Than, like you said, you can make JSGME for a different one.

I think it's great that you are putting the effort into this.  Have fun, but don't melt your brain:))

Pilots know what a cockpit should look like.
Maintenance knows what a repair looks like.
Engineers know what curves and angles looks like.

All three will only agree on one thing.  It's an airplane :-[  :-[

C
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"Can you put that in Captain dummy Talk"  Capt Malcom Reynolds // no sim pilots=no one to fly modded planes//no modders =no modded planes to fly

bolox

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 06:41:39 AM »



not best pic :\'(

comes from  book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Phantom-Focus-Navigators-Britains/dp/1781550484 has some reasonable stuff on operating radar-might help you make sense of it??
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Stainless

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Re: Help Requests
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015, 02:26:07 AM »

Thanks I'll have a look
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