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Author Topic: Spin Testing  (Read 2048 times)

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Dataman

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Spin Testing
« on: May 28, 2013, 12:27:33 PM »

I tried spinning a few aircraft earlier to see how they performed compared to historical data. Trial 1: P-39N. The P-39 was infamous for falling into irrecoverable spins. I tried and lost ~1400 meters of altitude before recovering, which seems rather unrealistic. Trial 2: I-16 Type 18. The I-16 was known for being fairly easy to spin, but easy to recover. Historically, you could simply return all controls to neutral and the plane would pull itself out of the spin. This is well-modeled in-game. Trial 3: I-153M. Historically, the I-153 spun easily and was difficult to recover. This is also well-modeled in-game. I lost nearly 2000 meters of altitude in trying to recover from a flat spin. Trial 4: I-185M-71. Having no knowledge of the I-185's spin characteristics, I was hesitant to test this one. When testing, it surprised me. As it turns out, the in-game I-185 resembles the I-16 not only in looks, but in spin characteristics. Easy to spin and easy to recover. Have any of you done similar testing? If you have, post the results.
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FIGHTS ON

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Re: Spin Testing
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 02:45:47 PM »

Does the FM or sim software take into account the changing density with height of the air? There was a thread some years ago)?) where it was suggested that some basic flight cards (stall speeds etc) could be centrally filed. With so many wonderful new planes being added all the time this could be useful? In the map of Norway, on the Scottish side of the N Sea (Aberdeen?) there is the longest runway I can find in any map in IL2 - it's also at sea level (if that makes a difference?). I tend to take alll new planes to approx 10,000 ft (3,500m?). I also fly using KIAS rather than try & do the mental maths of converting ground speed to true speed etc for recording stall speeds etc. Certainly some aircraft are "easy" to recover (centralize controls & let it recover itself) whilst others really  require combinations of opposite rudder & even a gentle push forward on stick.

If you enjoy a challenge, try it in  total darkness (cross control stick & rudder or whatever to get spin going) and try & recover on instruments only!!! Remember, some of the planes of this era only had turn & bank indicators - no artificial horizon.
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Dataman

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Re: Spin Testing
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 03:52:51 PM »

I'm sad to say I don't have a stick 8) but I can confirm that there are definitely performance changes as you go higher. If you start in the QMB at 10,000 meters in a P-39, you'll have some control issues. You'll stall as soon as you pull up. Once you lose some altitude, the plane will be more maneuverable. In-game, there are few performance changes between sea level and 3500 meters.
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Paulo Hirth

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Re: Spin Testing
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 04:38:33 PM »

 We see in real life combat videos, the moviment in combat was not so easy and fast like we see in game, i dont remenber if was a version of IL-2 Forgoten Battles or Sturmovik 1.2... with dangerous spin and more dificult for fly, today we have a balace with real and fun, is impossible say were is realism with sure...
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Dataman

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Re: Spin Testing
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 05:06:15 PM »

Sounds like the original demo.:P
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SAS~Malone

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Re: Spin Testing
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 11:19:08 AM »

I'm sad to say I don't have a stick 8)

really?    ???
well, mate, i can safely tell you that you will never be able to test any realistic performance properly without a stick, simple as.
seeing as this is what you are trying to do, i would suggest buying a stick before trying to provide test results.
seriously, none of your testing is worth squat, if you are using keyboard as input.
it's the equivalent of testing the handling of a high performance sports car, using a monkey wrench as a steering wheel.  :D
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.....taking fun seriously since 1968.....  8)

dhtsword

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Re: Spin Testing
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 01:02:47 AM »

Well, the farthest off in stock IL-2 is the Fw190 which explicitly could be flicked into a barrel roll while most other planes have flick manouvers explicitly forbidden. The Russian Yak-3, I-16 could be brought into a spin very easily but also very easily recovered (reported by German observers and Russians alike). There are fine Youtube videos with restored I-16s which show this wonderfully. However they do it extremely tight almost like a roll with almost no alt loss and can therefore easily be shot down while doing this manouver. A good pilot would use it to let an attacker overshoot and then use the high climb performance to try for a snapshot onto the attacker. Also the La-radials without the pre-wings stalled very easily.
To give a model deadly dangerous spin characteristics you want to have a steep decline ("Decline" and "maxDistAng" FMD-Polares params)  of Cy at high AOA (> CritAOA) and fumble with the Spin params (which I don't understand yet) the hard part, you want to limit the speed of rotation to keep it realisticly looking. Also giving an AC back cg. (center of gravity negative) makes for realistic deep flat spinning if you drive the plane into it. One can achieve cool things tweaking the FMD.
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