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Author Topic: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM  (Read 3425 times)

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Tofolo

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Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« on: May 03, 2013, 06:21:32 AM »

Hi everyone,

First of all, I've read the previous disvussions about the Tchaika (http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,27607.0.html) where this topic is more or less discussed, but I opened a new topic centered in these two aircrafts.

I've been flying these elder biplanes and there's something in their FMs which keeps me puzzled, especially with the I-15 m22 and m25.

Their performances are really poor, they're overwhelmed by any other contemporary fighter, in my case with the SCW planeset. The general performance does not match to any books I have read and it seems to me very hard to believe that how could any pilot succesfully combat the Bf-109s or the Cr-32s (even the He-51s!!) with a plane behaviour like this.

Perhaps I'm all wrong and it is the way it was but I'd like to know if there's any chance to have an alternate FM for these models, or how could I make it by myself.

And something similar with the R-5 Rasante, which I find it impossible to fly.

Always playing with 4.101+UP3 RC4

Thanks in advance for your help
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RealDarko

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2013, 07:30:51 AM »

As a SCW fan I agree 100%!
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Ala13_ManOWar

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 01:18:19 AM »

AFAIK last time I flew I-15 (both models) they were far superior to any other contemporary SCW biplane. 109 comparison is out of range but early models aren't far superior to I-15. The only problem was I-15 m25 having an overheat and instant engine seizure like first early 109 FM had.

S!
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Tofolo

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 01:31:53 AM »

Well, thanks for your reply, butthat was not our impression during some missions we've recently flown. Even against the He-51s.

For instance, we could'nt get over 230 Km/h at leveled flight, while most of the data that can be found around establishes cruising speeds of 286 or 290 km/h. and the climbing rate to 1k, 3k and 6k is set to 1.1, 3.3 and 6.1 minutes but I can assure you this is far from possible in the simulator.

Of course the 109 is another thing, considering that was superior even against the I-16s, but at least with the Chatos you should be able to stand a chance.
In words of García Morato, the Chato was the most difficult plane to shot down, for its superior armament and their manouverability.
And Mölders once told that the Chatos were the planes he feared the most.

What I mean is that this doesn't match, IMHO, to the performance of the I-15s in IL-2 4.10.1+UP3
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Ala13_ManOWar

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2013, 05:51:42 AM »

Just an impression. But you're using SCW pack, isn't it? Are you sure there are no FM changes there? Default UP with just original mods installed had a good FM for I-15 against Cr.32 and He-51, I tried that. May be a change at some point so if you find when and where may be you can go back to old FMs.

S!
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Tofolo

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2013, 11:31:28 AM »

Thanks for your info.

You're right, I'm using JIR's Ultraspain, but I don't think that this pack changes any FM (the only FMs contained in the #UP# folder are the ones from added planes). There's other people that shares my opinion (documented and objective, like Mr. Tuckie) and that's why I opened the thread.

Anyway, I remember using the R-5 when neither the Ultraspain nor the Polikarpov RZ were released and the FM was terrible (I think it was in a DF mission that we -CC and Ala13- fought each other).

With some tools I found I'll try to make an alternative FM for these planes, and test them with some people. If you want to try them I'll be more than happy to know your sincere opinion about'em.
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Ala13_ManOWar

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 01:34:59 PM »

Pues dile a Tuckie de mi parte que jugando al Warthunder ya no tiene credibilidad como simmer  :D.


Well, I don't doubt at all about your word, but surprises me because I have flown models you say and it was quite different. Don't know when or where the change came. Sorry not being more helpful.

S!
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herbarnold99

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2013, 08:53:58 AM »

How odd! I would agree with Ala13_ManOWar, and feel like the I-15 is quite competitive. It seems easily the equal of CR-32 and can dominate the He-51. (I play solitaire, 4.09m and UP 2.01, for what that's worth.) I haven't tested speed at height or rates of climb, but in a dogfight I find the I-15 to roll and turn like a demon. And with the prodigious rate of fire for those guns, it's a problem for everything but a 109 when I play. No problems with flying the R-5 either. I wonder if something in that SCW pack is doing it, as I added those planes as individual mods, too. Just another opinion...

Cheers,
Herb
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Anthem

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2013, 09:10:45 AM »

roll rate vs altitude loss: look @1:06  :o

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herbarnold99

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 08:33:59 PM »

Just tested my I-15 mod, and I get 290 km/h in level flight, as well as climb to 1k, 3k and 6k in 1.1, 3.3 and 6.1 minutes respectively.

Strange, but something must be hampering the performance on CC_Tofolo's installation. Sorry I can't be of more help...

Cheers,
Herb
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Tofolo

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 01:41:35 AM »

Thanks for the testing, herbarnold, there must be something with the 4.10/UP3 FM then
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Dataman

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Re: Early Polikarpov's (I-15s and R-5) FM
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 09:31:01 PM »

First time I flew the R-5 I shot down a B-239 when he came by on a front pass. I was using gunpods and the poor pilot took a direct hit. His wingman lit up my fuel tank when he came up behind me. As for the I-15, I only use it as cannon fodder for my D.XXI.
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