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Author Topic: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet  (Read 15771 times)

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max_thehitman

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Re: the USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2013, 11:08:14 AM »



THANK YOU Gofo Gianni for a great battleship mod! It is beautiful!  8) Congratulations!


I have changed your first post to include the recent download links available for
you final release of this ship. Just so people dont get confused why the old link was not working.
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asheshouse

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Re: the USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 08:22:07 AM »

HSFX6 already has earlier versions of Tennessee and Colorado included.
If installing these new versions then look for the existing text entries in ships.ini

Disable the lines for extra guns which appear after the line //Hsfx Multi Turret

Otherwise you will see the ships in FMB but they will be frozen when you run the mission.
The alternative if you are to keep the Mullti-Gun Turret function is to add Shellstart Hooks to the relevant Gun*.msh files, instead of disabling the lines in ships.ini

I've not worked out the text entries for that yet, but if the older version was extracted from SFS files it would be as used in those.
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Sharkzz

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Re: the USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 03:24:46 AM »

the  Tennessee in Monty's ??? and since it was disbanded in 59, did it get SAMS ? later ? thanks .....
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asheshouse

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Re: the USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 03:37:21 AM »

USS Tennessee was moth balled after WWII and did not receive any weapon upgrades.
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sphantom

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2013, 08:36:11 AM »

works in 4.12
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Stefan SG

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2014, 11:29:01 AM »

USS Tennessee works good in 4.12.2/SAS ModAct 5.30.

USS Tennessee in Pearl Harbour.


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ROMULO

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2017, 12:53:33 PM »

hello it works in 4.13.2 / SAS Modact 6.2
thank you so much for this wonder
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Werner Mölders JG 51

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2018, 05:06:32 PM »

As reference: The mod works also with the last patch ( 4.13.4m ) and SAS without any problem.
The model is very nice but to be used in Pearl Harbour maps you need to create a new skin for the ship because the navy blue one used in the mod was applied to the ship only from 1943 onward.

The correct paint scheme for 1941 is this ( see image below )


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jpten

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2018, 09:09:05 PM »

  Your image is of Measure 1.
  The Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor was conducting considerable experimentation  in 1941 with different colors and measures.
In September 1941, the current color schemes Measures 1 through 8 were abolished and four new schemes promulgated in a revised edition of SHIPS-2 but by the time of the Pearl Harbor attack  most of the Pacific Fleet were still testing variations of Measure 1A using Sea Blue, later adopted as Measure 11,  Measure 1B using Sapphire Blue and Measure 1C using Navy Blue, later adopted as Measure 21.   Some ships were still wearing dark gray Measure 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
   UNITED STATES PACIFIC FLEET

BATTLESHIPS, BATTLE FORCE

U.S.S. MARYLAND, Flagship

 

CONFIDENTIAL Pearl Harbor, T.H.,

CLIPPER/ MAIL December 6, 1941

(pencilled note: Rec 15 Dec via Clipper Airmail)

Dear Commander,

This will give you some early information on the progress of our current experiments in camouflage painting in this Fleet, and perhaps enable you to act in advance of receipt of the official report, which will not be forwarded until late in January 1942.

The sapphire blue apparently will do all that is claimed for it, and is color fast. However, adherence is only fair to poor, and some slight gloss has developed upon weathering. If these two defects could be overcome, it might be the answer, at least as far as air observation is concerned.

The graded systems are definitely out. They are as visible from the air as light gray, as was expected from previous tests.

Indications to date are that Measure 11 of Ships 2, utilizing formula 5S, is too light. Cinclant’s "Navy blue" looks like a step in the right direction, and we are directing that one ship of each type be painted "Navy blue" to permit comparative service tests.

We have one destroyer painted "Navy blue", and from observations made thus far, it is possible that a color underway between "navy blue" and formula 5D might be required. If so, do you know of any objections to mixing 5TM and 5U in the proportions of 20 pints of the former to 5 gallons of the latter? It is possible that such a large proportion of tinting paste to untinted base may be detrimental to the adherence, resistance to weathering and other qualities of the mixed paint.

In closing, it is our opinion that it is very desirable that we undertake further tests of sapphire blue on at least one ship of each type at as early a date as the paint can be made available here by the Bureau.

Yours sincerely,

Copy: Comdr. D.H. Clark

Cincpac Material Officer. Richard Mandelkorn

Lt.Comdr. H. A. Ingram

Bureau of Ships,

Navy Department,

Washington, D.C.
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Werner Mölders JG 51

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2018, 09:48:47 PM »

Certainly some tests were ongoing at that time in prevision of the report you mentioned above. Somehow, at least checking at the National Archive ( Navy Historical Center ) the Tennessee didn't adopt " officially "the M21 Navy blue system until mid/late1942.
In addition if you check the images of the battleship row during the attack you will notice that the horizontal surfaces are not painted in Deck Blue 20-B as instead the M21 regulamentation indicates.

Quote " Wood decks except on submariines and carriers shall be darkened to the colour Deck Blue. Deck Blue paint shall be used in lieu of stain for this purpose ".

At least looking at the aerial images took during the attack none of the battleships seems to have the deck painted in blue deck paint ( that it's pretty recognisable in B&W images because is displayed quite dark on the images of interest ).

Last but not least if you check also the only original film in colours available about the attack, took by one Japanese pilot and then captured by US troops at the end of the war, the few frames available clearly display that none of the ships has any blue color applied ( at least on the morning of the infamous attack )
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jpten

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2018, 10:49:24 AM »

 M21 was not adopted till 1942 so it has no bearing on the issue.  The Pacific Fleet was in Measure 1 (unpainted wood decks except for carrier decks) Dark Gray (5-D) overall except for Light Gray (5-L) structures above the stack tops when it began the color testing.  The only change to the battleships was Sapphire Blue in place of Dark Gray except for Division markings on the turret tops.  5 destroyers were also in the color test along with an un-referenced number of submarines. 
   The orders to use Measure 11 Sea Blue (5-S) overall, with horizontal surfaces (including wooden portions) painted Deck Blue (20-B). All visible canvas boat covers, tarpaulins and windscreens to be dyed in a color to match Deck Blue, was only made on 13 September 1941, a little less than 90 days before the attack.  As late as 6 December PacFleet was still sending color test recommendations to the War Department. 
   Until May 1940, the Battle Fleet was stationed primarily at San Diego and had only been officially flagged in Hawaii in February 1941.   Pearl Harbor was still lacking in a lot of ship support facilities.  The Measure 11 paints were still in production/transit for many bases.

  Be careful on photographs which appear in colors.  In common usage, a color photograph usually denotes a picture taken with color capable film, a colored photograph can be a Black/White picture that has had color added by a person or process that is not always accurate.

This article explores the issue and contains pics of above water structures before removal.
http://www.mikeashey.com/SHIP%20PROJECT%20PDFS/ARTICLE-BATTLESHIP-COLORS-AT-PEARL-HARBOR.pdf








If you look at the B/W pics of the Tennessee at Pearl Harbor you will note the structures above the stacks are lighter than the other vertical surfaces.  If they had been as the pic you posted, Measure 1, all upper structures would have been overall grey.  Clearly there was a color difference so at the best Measure 1 can be ruled out.   This leaves some color of Measures 1A,1B or 1C which used Navy Blue, Sea Blue or Sapphire Blue.
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Werner Mölders JG 51

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Re: USN = USS Tennessee joins the Pacific Fleet
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2018, 07:33:47 PM »

As you know the Blue\Gray debate it's a pretty never ending story between the two " factions ".
Somehow I tend to prefer the " gray " theory because most of the " blue " theory supporters base their statements on assumptions, anecdotes and " what if " theories in my opinion.
In addition a personal thought that makes me not " trust " a lot the paint scheme you posted in the table above...I can hardly believe that if they were discussing so hardly about the possible camouflage schemes to be used to render less visible the ships to the enemy ( see your previous extract in reply #32 ) then they decide to paint the upper side of the turrets roofs in insigna red ( if so was probably better to add the writing " Hit\Bomb here! " in phosphorescent yellow on the turret roofs instead of using the insigna red  :D :D :D )
In my opinion, despite the order given in September 1941 to adopt the Measure 11, the battleships, due to the considerable time lag between the issuance of new instructions, the paint being manufactured and distributed and ships actually being repainted were still wearing the dark gray Measure 1.

Here follows one of the pics that ( for me ) sustain the " gray " theory about the battleships paintscheme.



In this image you can see the USS Neosho (AO-23), cautiously backs away from her berth (right center) in a effort to escape the Japanese attack.
At left the battleship USS California (BB-44) lists after aerial blows. Other crippled warships and part of the hull of the capsized USS Oklahoma (BB-37) may be seen in the background.

The important thing ( for me ) in this pic is the USS Neosho...The USS Neosho in fact was not wearing any particular paint scheme and, as you can see, is clearly painted in Dark Gray (5-D)...note that it matches perfectly the apparent colour of of the battleship USS California hull and also the one of the USS Maryland ( the ship on the side of the already capsized USS Oklahoma...

Another pic...



This is a colour pic of the USS North Carolina in May 1941 wearing Measure 1...Note how it's easy to confuse the Dark Gray (5-D) and the  Light Gray (5-L) for some kind of blue colour...imagine to add smokes, fires, low visibility, shades, particular pic angles and light conditions, a pic took in black and white and so on and you can easily imagine how the battleships could easily become " Blue " all of a sudden... ( below you can see the same image changed in B&W with a bit of light shades applied )



Et voila'! The vertical structures are now become " blue " and the structures above the stack tops are now of a nice white colour and the ship now wears a perfect Measure 11!


I agree with you that some ships were making some tests about the new paint schemes ( the future Measure 11 ) but the battleships were most probably ( a good 90% in my opinion ) still wearing the dark gray Measure 1 during the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour.
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