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Author Topic: F6F Hellcat  (Read 16192 times)

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Sakai07

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2012, 07:58:04 PM »

It feels like all the US Navy fighters took a hit in acceleration, mainly in the low thick air during a CV takeoff. The F4U has seen the largest (hence most controversial) difference in performance between 4.10.1 and 4.11.  The F6F will take off from a CV with a full load of bombs and fuel when the ships moving at a good pace, so no complaints here.

She is more stable in mid-low speed turns, and the high speed roll rate is increased. As has been the case, the F6F is in it's element when making high speed turns, the way it is designed to kill Zeroes.

The F4F seems far slower in level flight then before, but this might just be from switching from faster planes to the F4F in the QMB. She is a most stable gun platform, and besides the acceleration/top level speed and the spring tab flaps, haven't noticed a huge difference.

To me, the F4U is slower in acceleration, but the top speed meets with performance data, so I really don't know where to stand on this one. One thing is for sure, she can handle sharp turns better then before. You can also (if you decide to blow your E like this) hang that bad boy on it's flaps in a knife fight if you really need to. With ords, she is as sluggish as a pregnant sow, which with the new parasitic drag modeling I expected. One thing is for sure, multiplied by the new (existent) engine management, you really need to keep your E once you get in in this bird, cause once it's gone, you aren't getting it back until you are out of that particular fight and can safely climb. Roll rate also seems increased at high speed.

I know this is an F6F thread, so I will at least contain my comments to US Navy fighters, am going to start a new thread (if one isn't already open) about thoughts on the new Fw-190 FM.  :)
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Pursuivant

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2012, 03:50:43 AM »

According to Capt. Eric Brown (world record holder for most aircraft types flown, test-pilot extraordinaire) the F6F was his top choice for naval fighters, well ahead of the F4U. I've never been impressed by the F6F in IL2, but that could be because I'm not much of a BnZ pilot.
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SVD Dragunov

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2012, 03:01:03 AM »

I'm not sure if its an active topic anymore, but I'd like to add my thought to this...

As I dont play with USN much, I did not notice this before, but today I tried F6F-5 hellcat because I found a nice catface skin for it... BUT... Its really weak and slow as you all wrote here!

My opinion is not too good about US planes, particularly P-51 and Hellcat as their historical reputation and effectiveness is very often overrated as technical perfomance not as a combined factor including pilot training, numerical advantages, reliability and tactical employment.
Most of these are not subjects to a flight simulator, so at first I thought that this difference is because the game "evens out" pilot training, flight tactics and other factors, relying only on technical parameters and pure flight model...
I tried out, but when dogfighting, F6F-3 and 5 are both sitting ducks to even a M3 zero. Horizontal maximum flying speed at 1000meter were
M2 Zero 430kmh,
M3 Zero 450kmh
F6F-3 470Kmh... ?? Without bombs of course. it would be ok, but the acceleration is also awful, I ended up 150-200 after each turn.
F4U1 corsair: 525kmh ... I dont know how much it should be...  In a dive from 3000 to 2000 I could reach 700, and keep is up for some time but the acceleration and climb is awful.
Its ok, I'm not a good pilot. My controls are also poor. Sometimes I feel the AI climbs better even in the same plane. OK, so I changed sides to try out, an M3 Zero against a pair of F5 hellcats... I could literally fly circles around them. I also seen them stalling very often (white stripes at wing edges). So, I think something is bad, or just went wrong...
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Yeager_1946

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 02:07:28 AM »


I'm easily able to reach 524km/h TAS at sea level in the Hellcat, and around 600km/h TAS at high altitude. All with full fuel. So, I'm not sure if people are looking at IAS thinking it's TAS or if they have their prop pitch or cowl flaps set up wrong, but I find the Hellcats to be quite fast and easy to fly.

One thing that I do find unrealistic is how I'm able to turn into an ace Zero pilot when flying the Hellcat. In real life the Hellcat would never be able to do that. In real life a Hellcat was a sitting duck in a turning dogfight against a Zero flown by a capable pilot. So, when I tangle in a close-in turning dogfight against an Ace Zero pilot I EXPECT a challenge, I EXPECT to get shot down, but in IL-2 I find that the Zeros have a hard time against me. And I don't consider myself to be some IL-2 god or something. Not very challenging or realistic if you ask me.

On 24 June 1944 Saburu Sakai single-handedly fought off 15 F6F Hellcats in his Zero without being hit by a single bullet. He did this even though he was blind in one eye. Many of his 64 victories included Hellcats.

Apart from the Zero's much better handling characteristics, the Zero also had a much better power to weight ratio than the Hellcat and the Zero had a much lower wing loading than the Hellcat. This gave the Zero better climb performance than that of the heavy Hellcat. The Zero also had better acceleration at dogfighting speeds thanks to its better power to weight ratio.

Very little of the Hellcat's somewhat overrated reputation was due to the aircraft itself. Superior tactics, a significant numbers advantage and much better trained and more experienced pilots is what gave the US the advantage in the end. Most of Japan's experienced pilots were killed when their aircraft carriers were sunk in 1942. After that the Japanese pilots were mainly hastily trained rookies with barely basic flight training and absolutely no combat experience, while the US pilots were well trained combat veterans. Not really a level playing field if you ask me.




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Stratodog

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 09:43:57 AM »

As I stated earlier in this thread; A long time ago I updated the F6F performance and improved the handling qualities a bit (primarily more stable gun platform) and my FMs were in UP2.01 
For some reason they were missed and not included in UP3 or DBW.  I've been in communication with CirX and the improved FMs will be included in the next buttons update, however there hasn't been a buttons update since February and the improved F6F FMs did not make it in on that one.
In the mean time, try flying the F6F-3 Early. (it's the only one of my F6F FMs that are in DBW so far...) Despite the fact that it doesn't have WEP it is just as fast s the stock F6F and it flies better.
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DaveOD06

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 11:48:32 AM »

As I stated earlier in this thread; A long time ago I updated the F6F performance and improved the handling qualities a bit (primarily more stable gun platform) and my FMs were in UP2.01 
For some reason they were missed and not included in UP3 or DBW.  I've been in communication with CirX and the improved FMs will be included in the next buttons update, however there hasn't been a buttons update since February and the improved F6F FMs did not make it in on that one.
In the mean time, try flying the F6F-3 Early. (it's the only one of my F6F FMs that are in DBW so far...) Despite the fact that it doesn't have WEP it is just as fast s the stock F6F and it flies better.

That's awesome news.
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SVD Dragunov

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 04:35:12 PM »

Thats very nice, guys... but I'm unfortunate I have stock 4.11m, I can't install Ultra :( so I can't benefit from your nice work:((
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CWatson

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2012, 02:39:25 PM »


I'm easily able to reach 524km/h TAS at sea level in the Hellcat, and around 600km/h TAS at high altitude. All with full fuel. So, I'm not sure if people are looking at IAS thinking it's TAS or if they have their prop pitch or cowl flaps set up wrong, but I find the Hellcats to be quite fast and easy to fly.

Yeager_1946,

 May I ask what version  of IL-2 1946 you are flying? Any Mods? If so what buttons? I have tried several attempts and put more than a couple hours trying to get some speed out of the F6F with no luck. I have come close to your sea level speed in a F6F-3 (50% fuel) but at altitude it only improved a few knots. The F6F-5 is about 20kmh slower for me.

Stratodog,

  I am using the F6Fs with the SAS modact 2.3 and buttons 9.7 all added to IL-2 1946 4.09.  Does these version of the buttons contain your FMs?  If not could you add a DiFF_FM to the download? If so could it include WEP?

Thanks,
           CW
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Stratodog

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2012, 05:32:51 PM »


Stratodog,

  I am using the F6Fs with the SAS modact 2.3 and buttons 9.7 all added to IL-2 1946 4.09.  Does these version of the buttons contain your FMs?  If not could you add a DiFF_FM to the download? If so could it include WEP?

Thanks,
           CW


CW, The 9.7 buttons does not have my FM.  I've never looked into the DiFF_FM idea.  I might check into that.  As for WEP, my versions of the F6F-3 Late and F6F-5 do have WEP.  The F6F-3 early does not have WEP because the first 1900 F6F-3s did not have WEP and it was not added as a field mod until the plane had been operational for about 6 months. 

I find that when fighting the Zero and using proper tactics I don't need WEP.  I usually fly around with about 95% power and the cowl flaps cracked open a bit and have no problems at all.  In an interview, Dave McCampbell, (34 kills in F6F) said that he only used WEP twice and that one of those times he was trying to out-run his wingman, thinking he was an enemy fighter.  He was wondering why he couldn't get away and he said, "hey Roy, is that you back there?"  It was.
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CWatson

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2012, 08:32:31 PM »


CW, The 9.7 buttons does not have my FM.  I've never looked into the DiFF_FM idea.  I might check into that.  As for WEP, my versions of the F6F-3 Late and F6F-5 do have WEP.  The F6F-3 early does not have WEP because the first 1900 F6F-3s did not have WEP and it was not added as a field mod until the plane had been operational for about 6 months. 

I find that when fighting the Zero and using proper tactics I don't need WEP.  I usually fly around with about 95% power and the cowl flaps cracked open a bit and have no problems at all.  In an interview, Dave McCampbell, (34 kills in F6F) said that he only used WEP twice and that one of those times he was trying to out-run his wingman, thinking he was an enemy fighter.  He was wondering why he couldn't get away and he said, "hey Roy, is that you back there?"  It was.


 Well if you do the DiFF_FM in 4.09, let me know I will beta test it for you :D. As far as fighting Zekes with a F6F the same question as I asked the other poster above, what version of IL-2, Mod or flight model are you using? I assume it is a version with your FM?

 Of note about the McCambell quote,  a altitude/F6F combination in the game that outruns a Zeke is rare indeed.

 The reason I mentioned the WEP is in the version I am using , specs above,  the WEP equipped later models are slightly slower than the early non WEP F6F-3, all the F6Fs just seem anemic in the power department.


Thanks again,
                   CWatson
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Stratodog

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2012, 09:16:11 PM »

CW, I'm using DBW 1.71, buttons 9.7
Consequently, I only fly the F6F-3 Early, because I despise and loathe the flight models of the other F6F versions (they are stock)
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FANATIC MODDER

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2012, 03:19:42 PM »

Hi,

yes indeed, reading about the DBW FMs it was something that I was annoyed with, when I realized that the F6Fs had again the faulty FM.

Can you re-work please the F4U FM too, so both will be included in the next buttons update?
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